Stop saying strength = aesthetics or size you fucking retarded ass brainlets. You can train for strength or you can train for aesthetics
>In the bodybuilding and fitness community and even in some academic books skeletal muscle hypertrophy is described as being in one of two types: Sarcoplasmic or myofibrillar.[qualify evidence] According to this hypothesis, during sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength, whereas during myofibrillar hypertrophy, actin and myosin contractile proteins increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is greater in the muscles of bodybuilders while myofibrillar hypertrophy is more dominant in Olympic weightlifters.[28] These two forms of adaptations rarely occur completely independently of one another; one can experience a large increase in fluid with a slight increase in proteins, a large increase in proteins with a small increase in fluid, or a relatively balanced combination of the two.
>Strength training typically produces a combination of the two different types of hypertrophy: contraction against 80 to 90% of the one-repetition maximum for 2–6 repetitions (reps) causes myofibrillated hypertrophy to dominate[citation needed] (as in powerlifters, Olympic lifters and strength athletes), whereas several repetitions (generally 8–12 for bodybuilding or 12 or more for muscular endurance) against a submaximal load facilitates mainly sarcoplasmic hypertrophy[citation needed] (professional bodybuilders and endurance athletes).[2]
ive been emphasizing strength training lately and i have been seeing a lot more gains in mass. could be a coincidence because as i have trained more for strength my consistency has improved and my diet has been solid
Brody Myers
yes, you can specialize in strength or size. that's obvious. What's also obvious is that getting bigger will make you stronger, and getting stronger will make you bigger. There is no such thing as a jacked bodybuilder who can't lift heavy weights, or a strong-ass powerlifter who doesn't have hypertrophied muscles.
for 99.99% of the lifting population, strength gains will lead to hypertrophy and vice versa. The fact that different rep ranges lead to a different PROPORTION of sarcoplasmic vs myofibrillar hypertrophy doesn't somehow mean that training sets of five will make you strong but small, whereas sets of eight will magically make you big but not strong.
in summary, OP you are the fucking retarded-ass brainlet. You are waaaaaaay overthinking things. intermediate trainees and beyond should specialize for the results that they want, but implying that there's a hard disconnect between size and strength completely lacks face validity.
Ryan Stewart
Quality post
Justin Russell
Buddy just do 5 reps on big lifts and 8-12 on accessory lifts and you will be fine until for a long long time. Most people never get close to the point where they have to tailor rep ranges and stuff to make any progress; focus on not being a fat piece of shit or lanklet dyel first
David Cox
OP, you need to delete this thread before everyone sees how badly you got BTFO
Landon Sanchez
You're right. But we're talking about the outright lie that a "strength base" is demanded and that only 5x5 powerlifting type training will get you big and strong.
It's been proven to be bullshit by nearly every real world no bullshit trainer on the fucking earth by this point.
And it's not a question of will it work. It's a question of optimization and training for goals.
Low rep High weight with the so called big three lifts has been proven to be inferior when it comes to both mass gain and strength endurance. It's also been proven to be equal in terms of strength gain to high weight low rep or "5x5" lifting.
Josiah Taylor
How about you stop saying strength =! aesthetics, retard
>on an anonymous Polynesian underwater basket weaving IRC channel anons posts are two types of useless: uninformed and without evidence.[qualify evidence] According to me, OP is a giant and flamboyant faggot, during the evening hours of each day the volume of foreign semen inside his digestive tract increases with no accompanying expulsion, whereas during a normal person's day there is no such increase in foreign semen. Semen ingestion and supposition is greater in OP than any other individual, even bodybuilders.[28] This level of faggotry rarely occurs completely independently of one's status as OP; one can, in fact, post useful and informative posts and can even literally stop sucking dicks, or a relatively balanced combination of the two.
>Being OP typically produces a combination of the two different types of faggotry: contraction of one's spincter against 80 to 90 miles of dick for 2-6 hours a day (fag/hours) causes normal faggotry to dominate [citation needed] (as in regular god-fearing fags), whereas several repititions (generally 8-12 for more committed fags or 12 or more for advanced faggots such as OP) against an HIV+ semen loaded megadong facilitates mainly the kind of faggotry evident ITT[citation needed] (OP is a fag).[2]
Josiah Sullivan
Those are some quality baseless claims there, friend.
Dylan Martin
this has to be pasta, its so fucking good
Connor Nguyen
user, online strength has been equated too big three leefts for nearly the last half decade. And simply doing compounds =/= "aesthetic" in the colloquial sense. Never has.
Anyone who tells you otherwise either has the kind of body that was built by fatboy lifting or has a literal boner for the kind of body that is built by basic bitch compound lifting.
This was actually stacked in favor of powerlifting/strength type training and the variables were changed around so much that it's basically fucking useless as a proof of anything. I mean the only tested a 1rm and used different workouts for each group or even talk about their training protocols...
BUT
It states that a basic as fuck 3x10 workout which would take 30 minutes puts on as much mass and comparable strength as a 5x5 training session which would take 2hours.
While it was set up to say that 5x5 builds just as much muscle mass as 3x10 type training. It actually states that 5x5 is inferior in terms of time(and recovery) mass and is shit for strength endurance. You know that thing that every athlete on earth needs including strongmen?
Oh, and one more thing. The 3x10 group apparently had more in the tank and could do more total sets if they wanted. Meaning that there is far greater potential for growth AND strength and strength endurance training overall.
Zachary Mitchell
>moving the goalposts >constructing strawmen to argue against >coping this hard
no-one who has two brain cells to rub together has ever asserted that only one training methodology will make you big and strong. In regards to building a strength base, howver, it is absolutely true that for a NOVICE, following a program that focuses on progressive overload and the basic compound barbell lifts is better than a bro split or even a well-programmed hypertrophy program, because:
1.) novices need lots of practice to get good form on the basic lifts. telling a noob to spend their time in the gym doing 3x12 calf raises, forearm curls, and 6 different bicep exercises is retarded when they can barely bench press 100 lbs.
2.) novices can recover fast enough to add weight to their lifts every workout. A low volume, high frequency program that adds 15 lbs a week to your squat is going to create a much bigger adaption than just doing tons of volume once a week at babby weight.
No, a novice doesn't HAVE to do a strength program bigger and stronger. If you eat enough and train consistently, and add weight and/or reps at least occasionally, you will make gains on even the most retarded of bro splits. But you have got to be mentally fucking deficient if you think that a noob who brings his deadlift up from 135 lbs to 315 lbs in 2 or 3 months isn't going to be bigger and stronger than a noob who wastes his time doing 1000 different exercises while only occasionally increasing the weight on the bar on the core lifts.
Andrew Johnson
...
Hudson James
>an 8 week study with a sample size of 17 >thinking this is sufficient evidence of anything Neck yourself, brainlet
Jason Watson
>Low rep High weight with the so called big three lifts has been proven to be inferior when it comes to both mass gain and strength endurance. >It's also been proven to be equal in terms of strength gain to high weight low rep or "5x5" lifting. >low rep high weight is equal to high weight low rep mind thoroughly blown
Matthew Collins
Motherfucker did you even read the abstract of the study you're citing?
the paradigm was testing 7x3 with 3 minutes rest vs 3x10, not 5x5 vs 3x10. 7 sets x 3 minutes rest = 21 minutes. 21 minutes x 3 major exercises in a training session = 63 minutes. Where the fuck are you getting 2 hours?
We're also looking at a sample size of fucking SEVENTEEN people. setting aside the fact that the results of the study actually undermine the points you're trying to make, rather than supporting them, do you think that a single study with n=17 serves as proof of anything?
Jeremiah Torres
I constructed not a single solitary strawman. I spoke of every single person who shilled that type of training to newbs.
>1.) novices need lots of practice to get good form on the basic lifts. telling a noob to spend their time in the gym doing 3x12 calf raises, forearm curls, and 6 different bicep exercises is retarded when they can barely bench press 100 lbs. Those novices don't do nearly enough total fucking volume on those programs to learn the lifts worth a fuck. You as a novice usually start with less then 100lbs as well. Are you stating that those programs don't work because they novice is weak starting out? And what well programmed bodybuilding type program are you talking about? Some random dumb piece of shit some gear head shat out?
>2.) novices can recover fast enough to add weight to their lifts every workout. A low volume, high frequency program that adds 15 lbs a week to your squat is going to create a much bigger adaption than just doing tons of volume once a week at babby weight. Just because they CAN add weight doesn't mean they should. And if I'm not mistaken, motherfucking Sheiko says that. Lastly, who says you can't add weight while doing a high volume high high frequency workout? Are you actually making up shitty bodybuilding type programs or bringing up those stupid programs where dudes just go into a gym and do 1000 curls with 10 pounds as something to argue against?
Is that what's going on?
I didn't move a single goddamnd goal post.
Powerlifting type peaking training is outright inferior in terms of mass building, strength base building, athletic performance/strenght endurance, and if the study by shoenfield is correct, only SLIGHTLY better then bodybuilding type training.
Levi Parker
okay OP, why don't you give us an example of the kind of routine you think would be superior to "basic bitch compound lifting?"
>implying it won't be complete dogshit
Jaxson Carter
>>low rep high weight is equal to high weight low rep
retard
Aiden Hall
Oh, so it's trash now, but when it's slanted so that it says that powerlifting type training builds as much muscle as bodybuilding is brillian scientific progress!!
You don't understand.
It was used as proof to say that powerlifting is just as good as bodybuilding by litterally every fucking SS/SL/Powerlifitng type shill on Veeky Forums for fucking MONTHS. Now that I've put it into the correct perspective it's meaningless? Get the fuck out of here.
By the by. The strength based programs pushed here take a bare minimum of 1.5 hours at most to complete BARE FUCKING MINIMUM. Basic bodybuilding program? Not even 45 minutes.
Nolan Reyes
/thread everyone fuck off
Elijah Butler
I'm not even the OP.
Zachary Sullivan
was worth a try kek
Christopher Brooks
>implying that doing the main lifts 3 times a week isn't enough to learn form >implying novices shouldn't increase weight at the fastest pace at which they can maintain form >implying that you didn't move from claiming strength =/= aesthetics/size in the OP to railing against well-established principles of novice strength training in your subsequent posts >implying that you're not making up strawmen to say "only 5x5 powerlifting type training will make you big and strong"
OP, if you would actually post what you would consider to be a superior program for a novice, we could compare it against programs that were designed by people that actually know what they're doing.
Sure, a high volume, high frequency, low weight program would probably work fine for a noob if they still added weight every session. So just doing 3x10 instead of 3x5 three times a week. Sure, why not? But what is it that you're actually advocating for?
Carter Martin
>The strength based programs pushed here take a bare minimum of 1.5 hours at most to complete BARE FUCKING MINIMUM. You shouldnt out yourself as a retarded dyel this soon into your own thread.
Carson Collins
>It was used as proof to say that powerlifting is just as good as bodybuilding by litterally every fucking SS/SL/Powerlifitng type shill on Veeky Forums for fucking MONTHS.
well, then those people were just as retarded as you.
>The strength based programs pushed here take a bare minimum of 1.5 hours at most to complete BARE FUCKING MINIMUM. Basic bodybuilding program? Not even 45 minutes
Bro you can easily knock out a day of SS + accessories in an hour if you superset. Sure, as you get to the end of your noob gains, you'll need longer rests, but you also have to consider that anyone running a 45 minute bodybuilding split is going to be in the gym at least 5 or 6 times a week. Also,
>implying that 2+ hour lifting sessions aren't better than sex
Aiden Parker
>retarded BB's and strength athletes argue about something that's completely trivial in a bait thread as long as you're not fat or a stick, have visible abs can do 1/2/3/4 at least and have separation, definition and noticeable size it doesn't matter at all. Not even a little bit. That's all that matters to women and other men
Anthony Jones
>trying to deflect from the fact that OP can't do math.
3 minutes rest x 7 sets x 3 core lifts is still 63 minutes, not 2 hours you cretin. Even if you're doing Texas Method, with the hellacious volume day with 5x5 on bench and squat and 1x5 on deadlift, that might put you at 2 hours, but your other two lifting days in the week can easily be completed in under an hour, even with accessories.
Brandon Ross
top kek m'dude
Wyatt Barnes
Endurance vs strength.
Luke Turner
I'm advocating calisthenics with bodybuilding type training for the upper body and the occasional squat and deadlift.
As for your post. Sheiko and many others say that most of these barebones programs are absolute fucking trash for teaching the basics of very very dangerous lifts.
How long did your strength training sessions take?
>well, then those people were just as retarded as you. K. You're a fucking retard who's resorted to adhoms at the beginning of your post. Dosn't bode well, but I'll let it slide and continue on.
So...yeah. You can do SS if you don't do SS? Didn't Ripp say DO THE PROGRAM HOW ITS WRITTEN? That includes modifying it in a positive way to make it look better when it's voracity is called into question.
They are, but powerlifting sessions for 2 hours are boring bullshit.
user, the typical SS session lasts well over an hour and a half. If it lasts 45minutes or less then they were more then likely not putting in the work or not DOING DA PROGRAUM!
Kayden Rodriguez
>complains about ad hominem attacks on this site of all fucking places >opens thread with "Stop saying strength = aesthetics or size you fucking retarded ass brainlets"
on a side note, the word "voracity" means the quality of having a great appetite or hunger, such as your insatiable desire for big veiny cocks in your mouth. I think that you might have been searching for "veracity," which means truthfulness or accuracy.
William Kelly
>squat, deadlift, bench press, ohp >very very dangerous lifts
DYEL?
Connor Scott
>Doesn't actually say anything >More adhom >Attack use of word rather then content
I've been arguing with..sorry AT a fucktard. Thanks for wasting my time dumbass.
Are you saying that they aren't?
Jeremiah Kelly
quality
Henry Johnson
>How long did your strength training sessions take? Sl 5x5 with accessories takes 90 minutes max
Xavier Lee
are you saying that you don't crave the taste of big veiny dicks in your mouth?
Andrew Thompson
So op is saying somone who can rep 135 for 15 reps can build more muscle than someone who can rep 225 for 10? What a fucking retard.
Austin Scott
The problem with most of the popular routines is they specialize in strength specifically, they have low volume and low frequency for everything else except the big lifts, to top it off they work in a low rep range. With these factors combined it’s no wonder people make shit mass gains on starting strength.
Adrian Bennett
I plan on exercising for strength and not for size, i'm a 5'6 dyel manlet, so I'm not gonna try to make up for my height with my size, plus it'll just look fucking dumb on me. I'd rather work on being able to lift things up for myself, and have people be shocked that someone so short can lift a heavy object
Kevin Perez
also the fact that heavier weight increases cns efficiency so strength gains aren't purely based on muscle mass. a bodybuilder will get strong but not as fast as if he did a powerlifting program
Levi Brooks
not if you aren't a retarded ego lifter
Hunter Rogers
a beginner doesn't need high volume to make gains, getting to a 315 squat after a year will build more muscle than repping out 135 to get a pump
Jaxson Cox
You keep creating these retarded strawmen. I hope you realize that only proves that you know on an instinctual level that you are absolutely full of shit. Every single REAL ATHLETE does high rep with as heavy as they can go, then ratchets up the weight. Even the strong men. You are arguing for less then the bare fucking minimum that will ultimately lead them to nowhere and teach them less then nothing.
Zachary Perez
SS/SL and other powerlifting programs main selling point is ego lifting and false masculine bravado.
Leo Campbell
Where does negative reps fit in?
Benjamin Fisher
top kek
Luis Evans
>weightlifting builds myofibrillar hypertrophy >build weight and strength >What Veeky Forums says is true strength literally equals hypertrophy
Brody Baker
put me in screencap
Luke Morgan
>call someone out for strawmaning >proceeds to use a strawman what do you know about strongmen and their linear progression amrap sets? your advice is worthless past the beginner level when people require a periodised program to progress
Luke Morris
The question I've been asking myself is: Why would I wanna train heavy and risk a forced break from workout due to worn out joints and torn muscles, if I can get the same results with a higher volume training (more sets, less break inbetween, higher amount of reps)?
I try to avoid any unnecessary use or abuse of my muscles in my everyday life. For example: I pack my groceries into a trolley case so I don't have to lift them from my car to my appartment. I've stopped playing soccer because I've often minorly injured myself in the process in the past, which kept me from working out my legs for a week or two.
Be a huge pussy = gains
Ian Brooks
HE SAID /THREAD GUYS STOP POSTING
Jack James
training heavy =/= ego lifting just go to technical failure for multiple sets for compounds and do some pump work after it
Jacob Myers
What strawman? I told you the truth.
You didn't answer his question...
Cooper Miller
>Every single REAL ATHLETE does high rep with as heavy as they can go, then ratchets up the weight. unless your'e a 'REAL ATHLETE' then don't tell people how elite athletes train
Justin Allen
The fuck is wrong with you?
Ethan Garcia
Your muscles are meant to produce force, and adapt to doing it when exposed to appropriate levels of stress. You're not made of glass, and training heavy will make you tougher and less injury-prone.
Soccer has one of the highest injury rates of any sport. There's two reasons for that: soccer is very popular, and soccer players tend to be hilariously weak. You sound like you're the latter.
Brody Wilson
I have no knowledge on this but basic physiology but; strength training is largely about engaging more of your central nervous system to trigger more muscle fibers. Simply "using more of what you already have" for muscles.
So it makes sense, although i have no study on it, that doing strength training first then hypertrophy is the best way to improve muscle gains since your CNS is able to engage more muscle fibers meaning more tearing meaning more growth.
Wyatt White
fucking lol
Oliver Thomas
do oly its fun and makes you athletic while powerlifting makes you stiff piece of lard
Colton Thompson
Always makes me laugh when dyels are deadlifting 200+kg
Oliver Robinson
i would almost like a novice to chill with the training. preferable train 2-3 years untill he gets onto a platue before he would try a more seriouse lifting strength program.
