Why have places like reddit suddenly turned against programs like SS and SL as good entry-level strength training tools?

>6 months to deadlift 315lbs on a linear progression program

Why shouldn't you?

If you're stronger you should be able to do more weight and more volume even after you switch to a bodybuilding program.

>have 6 pack abs
>run out of breath goin up a flight of stairs
>heart disease is rampant with steroid abuse
>isolation and no compounds produces a weak body
>lifts with form to produce hypertrophy over form for health

everyone that looks good does X, soft, fat sacks of shit do Y, I wanna do Y, because Y makes you look good

whats that? scienfitifc evidence that TUT training tears the most muscle fibers? I'll do Y anyways, because im **** too weak and too lazy to do anything hard***

Powerlifting is for those without the displicine and willpower to handle the dieting and the painful time under tension training of BB

>powerlifting
>without discipline
this is what reddit actually believes

so hard to go to the gym and do sets of 5 with 5 min breaks for 30 minutes

so much dedication, and the chiseled, huge, LEAN, physiques that it yeilds!

roided powerlifters look like natural bodybuuilders and natural powerlfiters look like untrained 14 yr olds OR a sedentary fat man

>not training taking hueg shits and lifting just being a symptom of that hobby
Merry Christmas faggots

And natural bodybuilders look like insecure bottom fags.

so hard to lift babyweights and spend more time stroking your ego than actually bettering yourself

Tldr: you don’t know what you’re talkig about

>body dysmorphia
>eating disorders
>drug abuse
>discipline

Loool.

because they're not optimal novice routines.
Also
>saying that SS/SL are good strength building routines
yet not Mehdi nor Rip are known for training someone who actually competes

post alternatives!

Another idiot shows up.

Your appeal to authority is untrue and unfounded.

instagram.com/jordan_barbellmedicine

instagram.com/chaselindley

that video is the perfect example of how sl type programs suck balls.

i did sl 5x5 for a while - staggeringly boring - few months later became skinnyfat with big quads - hated gym

started a ppl aesthetics routine - found it fun - few months late i look breddy good - love gym

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Powerlifting programs have tons of bodybuilding work, especially during off-season training.

Let me guess you think Rip is a bad coach since he does not train top tier athletes like nfl players ? Yet you would think football players doing quater squats and 400lb benchpresses would be due tot be fact that they have excellent coaching, and not the fact that they are the creme of the crop AKA the best of th best no matter what they do?

may be controversial but i think all this 'novice routine' and 'strong base' stuff is just bullshit

just do a ppl routine and start light with good form

eat and sleep well - remain consistent - increase weight slowly

Nice anecdote did you try to read startingstrength ?

Not controversial just plain stupid.

It's as if he hasn't read a thing from JTS

because as pointed out most people aren't actually against them as STRENGTH training tools they're against them as bodybuilding routines aka WEAKNESS training tools

>retard doesn't realize he's posted a gif of an off season powerlifter doing a bodybuilding routine
lookism must go

GZCLP
>2 random guys
>no explanation
yawn
>literaly saying that there are people who don't need good program to be the best of the best
also nice strawman

To this is say who would build more muscle? Someone who can bench 225 for 15 reps or somone who can bench 135 for 15 reps?

they dont think it be like it is but it do

Because SS was great 5 years ago when we were all new to lifting. When zyzz was drawing in new people curious and eager to learn. Those programs are great for 6months to a year, by then you should move on to a more specific program for your goals.
I think the general rejection is a reaction to the SS tards who became living memes insisting that 5x5 is the best rep scheme, disdaining accessories and basically being retarded.

>GZCLP

Isn't that literally just some bullshit a random nobody on reddit made up? Did the creator of GZCLP train anyone who competes?

Jordan Fieganbaum was taught by Rip and has close to a 600 wilks. The dude is in the top percentage. Show me a coach who knows about programing who was not just handed a genetic freak.

It’s some powerlifter who wanted to spice up SS with amrap sets

>Rips STRONG as fuck posterboy, stronger than 99% of dudes in the gym,
>would walk into any commercial gym at primetime and not be top 10 biggest guys there

Kinda making his point

And that's what I can not wrap my head around. These guys go around trashing SS, but then create and promote routines which are 90% similar.

Chase is fucking huge. Put some fucking glasses on.

Not for how strong he is

>random nobody
that's Mehdi
GZCLP was created by well-known powerlifter Cody Lefever
instagram.com/p/BDtwv3QNVI-/
he also actually looks good for a powerlifter
he coaches some people, but probably not to many as he competes himself

Another example of novice strenght trainning program that has totally different aproach than Rips or Mehdi is Boris Sheiko Novice program
powerliftingtowin.com/sheiko-novice-routine/
He actually tells there to "play sports". But some of you still would rather listen to Rip because reasons, and to some people that actually know shit

Is that seanzie?

Because it's a retarded, shitty program.

It sucks dick for powerlifting, there's better routines by far.

It's boring as fuck. Literally squatting 3 times a week, when every beginner desperately wants a better upperbody.

Too little volume.

No autoregulation as in many other routines.

SL is made by a DYEL looking and weak as fuck internet marketer who just stole 5x5 oldest routine in the world.

SS... created by a fat idiotic Texan who looks like a fat cuckold and has only ecperience training fatsos and skeletons.

you """""""think"""""""" of Greyskull LP fucking morons

...

He weighs ~100kg and would total somewhere around 725 in a pl meet. He'd be hard pressed to make top 30 in USAPL raw nationals.

This is how body dismorphiaist think. There’s a reason why the ask the biggest guy for juice meme is kinda real

>ss
>powerlifting

Lmaooo

>le shieko meme

Lost all respect for that fattie after he decided to team up with 3 gay faggot YouTube cucks.

Nice appeal to authority, by your logic Rip is a better coach since he trains and shieko just stays fat.

wut

>sheiko
>meme
meanwhile praising Rip and Mehdi
Veeky Forums in a nutshell

Have you seen ripps "posse"?
The guys who he has shill for him?
A bunch of fucking losers, and never will be imbeciles with the odd actual "athlete" who's just in it to get exposure to ripps half retarded soon to be or already snapped up cult.

are you the inspiration for the brainlet meme

English please.

Post body pics, I'm almost certain that you're a deluded dyel but I just want confirmation

He is a meme, he knows some shit but other things he does have no rhyme or reason.

>hurrr he’s an Olympic coach

Rip would probably be an Olympic coach if we had any olympians in American.

People would actually be better off doing Candito or Sheiko or GZCL or even 5/3/1 but no, le reddit doesn't approve of SS therefore it must be good.

Outside of /plg/ and a bunch of random people, no one on Veeky Forums knows what they're doing. So they regurgitate shit they read online in order to look knowledgeable to other people who don't know what they're doing either.

Christ.

Sounds like you’re talking about yourself

>people should do intermediate programs and not a program for novices

Cool story bro

>People would actually be better off doing Candito or Sheiko or GZCL or even 5/3/1 but no, le reddit doesn't approve of SS therefore it must be good.
this
just look at posters like
>Rip would probably be an Olympic coach if we had any olympians in American.
kekekek

If you're a novice user and want a longer explanation why those programs suck I suggest this:
mythicalstrength.blogspot.com/2014/05/why-abbreviated-training-starting.html

Tldr

The joke is we got no note worthy Olympic weightlifting athletes retard

Sheiko's "novice" programs aren't and at people who are novices to lifting, they're aimed at people who are novices to his programming style, to get them used to the workload. He's said several times they're much worse than a SS-style LP for true novices.
You should know this if you're going to talk about these things. Hell, I think it even says so in the link you posted.

And GZCLP is just a bit joke.

>browsing reddit
Lmao

That's pretty great progress on his lifts, and he looks much better in the 2nd picture. He would definitely cut a better shape in clothing, etc.

Strength training =/= a weight-loss program.

>a BB routine
such as?

Did you even read the page you linked?
>first half: SS is bad because people who do SS are generally skinnyfats who aren't fit
>second half: it's bad because it you look on the internet there's lots of people saying SS is bad, so your brain starts thinking SS is bad and then you get discouraged and quit
Tell me, how does that not apply to literally any beginner lifting program?

You're full of shit, as is the moron that wrote that blog post.

dang nice argument

>hehehe what a normie browsing reddit
>im not like the other kids
>im... im... im not like the other kids...
>im not like the other kids :(

Fucking normie faggot. /r/fitness has a load of good shit on it.

this is common place now, reddit invaded certain boards and never left. If you haven't noticed quality has really dropped off in the past couple years.

No, it's shit progress, and he looks way worse.

However:
The numbers don't match up. Take the squat for example: 125 lbs increase in 4 months. 4 months are ~50 training sessions, meaning the guy supposedly took 2.5 lbs jumps. That's not SS. Even if you account for deloads and a few missed sessions, that's still not SS.
Additionally, judging by the pictures, he was on a huge (2000+) calorie surplus, when he really should have been eating maintenance or at a small deficit. The book explicitly talks about this, hence: not SS.
The text (praising the body, not the lifts) also makes it clear this was made with the intention of mocking SS.

It's likely that guy never even did SS, and the image is pure fabrication.

Ppl is just a outline that provides joke of the following

Progression
Resting
Form requirements
Setxreps
Rpe
Excercise selection
Toneage
Percentages

You’re argument is just “I like ppl so ss is whateve.”

But that's retarded, you fucking faggot.

Tell me, what gives you better gains, 3x10 squat with 1pl8, or 3x10 squat with 3pl8?
Could it be that, perhaps, it might be worth it to set aside six months to get to 3pl8 squat (etc), enabling you to get much better gains after that?

Post your body kiddo, make me laugh.

*none of the following

That was possibly the worst post I've ever read and I'm completely unsurprised that it was made by a redditor

Crap reddit tier response too. You're ticking all the boxes

Reminder that having 1/2 days of hypertrophy training in your strength program = GOAT

>not splitting strength and hypertrophy work into blocks

I think its time to put Practical Programming into the sticky as well. Written by Rippletits and Kilgore(PhD in A&P). It would get rid of lots of confusion and stop people from blaming something else for lack of knowledge.

Absolutely unnecessary for beginners, absolutely suboptimal for intermediate/advanced lifters. For general strength training, you'd usually want something like two weeks hypertrophy and two weeks strength with bigger blocks for more advanced trainees.

Anyone who could benefit from reading it will find it and read it anyway.
The people who get into retarded arguments about programming are either juicing heavily, or absolute dyels who are just here to shitpost.

>dropping an entire plate by the time you come back to strength

I shig

I think it's because these programs don't give you that aesthetic appeal that most novices are looking for.

Look at all the transformation successes posted on Reddit. Most of the time, the lifting routine consists of a high volume program.

>six months
More like 4

F-for example?

You don't need that much additional hypertrophy. Plus one or two days of working the beach muscles isn't going to slow you down, strength wise.

>beach muscles
Wait, you were talking about vanity bullshit like biceps and calf hypertrophy?
What a faggot.

> tripfag
> is a faggot

Classic

;*

>newfag
>doesn't know the difference between a namefag and a tripfag
>feels the need to try and signal his (pretend) oldfag status, but fails miserably
Classic

>4 months
>Said surplus not extreme surplus

Reddit forces groupthink, even if it's wrong

Because the programs were hyped beyond reasonable levels. Thanks to the misinformation spread by Mehdi (creator of SL5x5) and the dogmatic attitude of Rippetoe, people honestly believed that those two routines would be all you needed to get fuckin' swole or become some super athlete. You'd get beginners misunderstanding information that was fed to them by Rippetoe who would go off acting like God's of the workout world and begin preaching to everyone that they needed to do 5x5 or SS no matter their goals.

>"Oh bro, you want to run a faster 5k? Well bro the legs are quite a necessary muscle for running, you should do SL5x5 to make your legs stronger so you run faster!"
>"You want to compete in bodybuilding? Bro don't do isolation exercises EVER, just do SS and you'll get Ronnie Coleman'd!"
>"Man just keep doing SL5x5, you literally don't need to do anything else! I've been doing it for 18 months now because it's the best program ever!"

People began to cotton on to how much bullshit misinformation there was, and how SS/SL really aren't anything special. For who they're meant for, they're fine routines, but if you're an absolute beginner it really doesn't matter what you do as long as you do something. Anybody who is completely untrained will see strength and size gains just doing compound exercises for any number of sets/reps as long as they're challenging.

Ultimately the hate that SS/SL5x5 gets at the moment is a counter-jerk to how heavily it was circlejerked to begin with. Won't be long before Reddit turns against nSuns 531 or 531 in general.

He literally has boobs

Lmao this is the most retarded shit I've ever read. What gives you more gains?
1x3 3pl8 bench or 3x10 3pl8 bench.
Nice completely irrelevant false dichotomy fag. But nah fuck it let's make beginners do heavy sets of 1-5. Lmao

Hey pot, meet kettle.

I did this after seeing it everywhere and I've made absolute shit gains. I look better but I probably would've looked a lot better if I just did straight volume. And I would've been a lot stronger if I just did straight up strength training instead of half assing both.
I'll be trying strength/volume training in 4-12 week block periods soon. I'm hoping that treats me much better.