Best beginners workout for aesthetics? Want to avoid T-Rex mode. Looking at either ICF 5x5, PPL routine or Ivysaur 4-4-8

Best beginners workout for aesthetics? Want to avoid T-Rex mode. Looking at either ICF 5x5, PPL routine or Ivysaur 4-4-8

Reddit's beginner PPL is the best
ICF is absolute garbage
haven't heard of lyvysaur 4-4-8 so can't say if it's good

SS or SL. There’s literally no such thing as an “aesthetics” program. Do a generic noob program and in 6 months reassess what’s lacking and make small changes.

You seem confused.

A beginner's program such as Starting Strength isn't meant to take you to your endgame. Nor will ANY beginner's routine. After your first 6 months, your friends will be able to tell that you actually lift, and that's it. You aren't going to be ripped regardless of what program you choose (unless you're just a freak, in which case you are going to, also regardless of which program you choose).

What Starting Strength is meant to do, however, is teach you the most fundamental exercises as quickly as possible while also preventing you from getting a severe case of fuck-around-itis, which afflict so many beginners.
And yeah, you'll also gain some muscle.

I don't give a shit what you choose. The reality is that you're going to look like you're going to look, and that the choice of program matters far, far, far, far, far less than most people think. Other factors such as diet, stress, motivation, genetics etc. are going to have a much bigger impact.

That's fair enough, but surely doing squats every other day is a bit excessive? I'm reading through the SS book now (so much fluff), the posterior chain can't THAT important? What do you do to stop your legs looking oversized compared to the rest of your body?

You don't do it only because it's important (although it is for many sports). You do it simply because it's possible. There's so much muscle involved that it can progress at a much more rapid pace than any other exercise. So you don't really have to, but if you're not, you're leaving easy gains on the table.

Also, there is as much upper body work as there is lower body work. Yeah, your legs will become big, but guess what - your legs are supposed to be big.
On a related note, if you ever feel like your legs are actually TOO big, in 9 of 10 cases it's really because you're fat there, not because of the muscle.

Anyway, even if you did end up as a t-rex, which I don't believe actually happens a lot, then why the FUCK would you be bothered about the part of the program that actually worked, rather than the part that didn't? Do your squats, and if you truly feel like your upper body is lacking by the end of it, simply put your lower body on maintenance for a little while and focus on your weak points.

This is just my opinion. Also, like I said, your first 12 weeks of training won't actually take you that fucking far. You WILL need to re-assess and do something else afterwards, regardless of what you choose.

The posterior chain isn't emphasized because it's somehow more important than other muscle groups. It is emphasized simply because you want to make sure you include this large amount of muscle. Many people completely neglect it, and that means leaving gains on the table.

...

>in after shills and perma unaesthetic fags blather on about MUH STREMF and MUH FUNKSHUNUL STREMF

Calisthenics
Curlbro routine(bench rows curls dumbbell overhead press tricep kickbacks one set of squats and one set of deadlifts everyweek)
Cardio aka have an active hobby or PARTICIPATE IN A FUCKING SPORT or just plain walking.

That's it.
If anyone disagrees, please give me a good answer as to why.
I'm looking forward to having a good laugh.

Looks bretty good
As long as you stick to a decent routine such as the PPL I mentioned or this lvysaur then you're good

1.It's actually because you progress quickly. Not for any real reason beyond that. Quick gains of any kind is the name of the game. It being useful on any level means nothing

2.No, legs are not supposed to be that big, they CAN get that big but that is ultimately pointless and takes away from any athletic endeavors that normal men would want to do. By the way, the legs get more direct and indirect work then the upper body period. Cumulative upper body work does not equal total stressed body work across all areas of movement. Push, pull, overhead pushing? They're all woefully undertrained in favor of extra effort on the legs.

I mean, what good are strong legs if you have a bitch of a mans' upper body strength and mass. You'd look like a fag.

>It's actually because you progress quickly
Which is what I said.

>legs are not supposed to be that big
Just how big do you think your legs are going to be after 3 months? This irrational fear is the man version of when a woman says "I don't want to become too bulky".
Seriously.

>Which is what I said.
That's not a good thing.
There's no rush. There's no reason to progress as fast as possible.
What's the point. Not like any of the cunts who're on the program have a sport or athletic event to prepare for.

Also, it's not an irrational fear when we've actually seen the huge thighed small upper bodied and oft fat and sloppy twinks that follow the SS/SL gospel closely.
Bunch of snapped up or soon to be snapped up unathletic fuckwads who know less then dick about how their body works or how to workout beyond lift heavy shit with the vestigial tail of circus strongman tools of the trade.

>There's no rush. There's no reason to progress as fast as possible.
Principally I agree. It's the great paradox of lifting: you want to always focus on progressing, but at the same time you never want to force it, as this always leads to burn out and/or injury.
That said, it's hard to teach a beginner to auto regulate so a built-in rate of progression is necessary in this context. There are some programs that go slow, but people are impatient shits and dislike these. That leaves us with an approach like that of Starting Strength. I will add though, that the beauty of SS (its simplicity) often begins to work against it when people try to keep milking it long after they should've made a switch, or when people make no effort to try to learn other methods of progressiong beyond simply adding weight to the bar.

>who know less then dick about how their body works or how to workout
This happens, yeah.
Now imagine these fuckers if they hadn't even read SS. That's the average gym goer who ends up just sitting at home while still paying his membership, and who knows even less than the fuckups you describe.

user, we aren't machines. We won't 100% progress all of the time some days we'll just fucking fail and not want to work out much.

SS isn't the program that will teach people how to workout. It is a program designed to peak already athletic and mostly fit highschool boys. That's it.
It's outright trash for teaching people how to move, how to be truly fit, how to understand basic biofeedback. None of that is in there.

Once they've spent their early gains xp on poorly thought out "strength" movements and they are left with the grind, a probably injury in the works, and nowhere to go?
They'll be JUST like those curl bros, except they'll be strong enought o REALLY snap their shit up when they inevitably ego lift(while chasing that new pr high) or continue to lift heavily with probably terrible form.

What makes you think the person who read SS isn't sitting home shitposting on the net at 3am.
Look at this thread.

I hear what you're saying, even if I don't agree 100%.

What's your recommendation to the complete beginner then?

OP here... so uh... Ivysaur it is?

Calisthenics
Curlbro routine with one set of squats and deads every week
Cardio (a sport, an active hobby, or even walking)

That's all.

The last workout you will ever need.

Become stronger on a balanced selection of compound exercises, and you'll be well on your way to reach your goals.
Choice of program doesn't matter much.

>Calisthenics
>Curlbro routine with one set of squats and deads every week
I think I understand where you're coming from, but I also think you're a little confused as to what ACTUALLY leads to injury.

Also, your "recommendation" does fuck all to help the beginner. The entire fucking point of recommending SS is that it has a whole book dedicated to it that will answer each and every dumb question you might have. Your recommendations does nothing to hold the beginner's hand. It's about 10 worthless words that leaves the beginner with more questions than answers.
And I almost thought you were semi smart.

SS litterally does not answer a goddamned thing.
It TELLS the beginner that they should do a less then bare bones injury bound workout and outright denigrates you at every fucking turn for NOT wanting to do DA PROGRAM.

It is quite litterally TRASH for teaching unfit beginners basic fitness and building a base of health and athleticism and aesthetics.

It's good at convincing imbeciles to do squats. But that's about it.

Different guy, but the gist of a 'good beginner routine' from my POV is a mix of bodyweight movements (basic ones - this is about drilling in some proprioception and basic mobility, they ain't in a position to learn the fancy shit yet), low rep submaximal sets on a balanced selection of big compounds and a reasonable amount of moderate-high rep assistance. Some simple cardio/conditioning wouldn't go astray either.

That's speaking from experience - the people I've trained all did vastly better on that style of programming than they did on SS-style approaches The problem is getting people to do it properly without someone looking over their shoulder. That's an issue with SS as well, but a more balanced approach also has more moving parts and thus more ways for someone to fuck it up.

I can agree with everything in this post.

But this guy just beats on SS without providing a viable alternative.

I give a viable alternative.
But because I was unkind to god of all programs SS you licked the balls of some imbecile who wrote more then I did while saying less and kissing the ass of the aforementioned program.

Go eat a dick.

>I give a viable alternative.
Dude you basically just said "go exercise". If you can't see how that doesn't help anyone WHATSOEVER, then I guess the discussion ends here.