EAT LESS MEAT

>Why aren't you eating less meat Veeky Forums?

because it tastes good and it's easy/convenient.

that's the only answer. any other arguments are secondary. if health were really the primary factor everyone would eat way more vegetables than they actually do.

Why do most vegans look like they're on the verge of death?

Same resson that most meat eaters are fat and most people at the gym are DYEL. Because most people on the planet are retarded. Has nothing to do with veganism.
Yeah, of course if you eat like 3 bell peppers and some broccoli you'll look sickly. Most people don't understand nutrition.

>Why aren't you eating less meat Veeky Forums?

I'm trying to incorporate less meat into my diet and aim to have at least one meatless dinner a week. I don't think eating meat is wrong but I do have a problem with the conditions that meat is raised in.

I would very much like to hunt for my own protein which I may do next deer season since I live in an area I can hunt in now.

you're actually extremely wrong.

you can feed roughly 8 times as many people growing beans in a field as you can keeping cattle.

That being said, most soyboys citing that fact conveniently forget that a lot of areas used for cattle are unsuitable for farming in the first place.

>not eating insects
Objective best way to get protein.

EAT MORE MEAT!!!

2 reasons:

1) GET FOOKN HyOOOOGE

2) tastes good

No thank you

dubs of truth

If you're gonna go vegan then you better start juicing up to compensate for it

>That being said, most soyboys citing that fact conveniently forget that a lot of areas used for cattle are unsuitable for farming in the first place.
Unfortunately, the opposite is true. Yes, in the really early days of animal agriculture what you say was true. It was basically a way to get access to calories otherwise denied us. I mean sure a cow has to eat 8lbs of plants to make 1lb of cow, but if the "plants" in this case is grass or something else humans can't eat then it's still a net gain: 1/8 of calories you otherwise would have missed out on completely. 1/8 > 0

BUT nowadays grass-fed beef is so popular that we actually use areas very well suited for other ends to grow grass for cows. So there is an alternative cost in terms of calories; the soil COULD HAVE been used to grow a crop humans could eat so we get 100% of the calories, but instead we only get 1/8 since it passes through the cow first. Sometimes the alternative cost is economic as well (the land could have been used fir industrial crops that would have benefitted the local economy more) or environmental (the land was previously rainforest that was cut down to grow grass). And that's not even entering into the political problems that all this gives rise to in the affected communities.

So, there's more to opposing meat-eating that "muh poor animals". You usually don't hear about this side that much since it's a bit more complicated and because liberals/leftist can't be bothered thinking but are satisfied with just feeling so they don't feel they need to understand the facts.

t. environmental science phd

>I enjoy having normal test levels
What does that have to do with this?
>If we decided to grow crops on the same level that we raise animals,
We never will, stupid hypothetical.
Wow you're smart
;-)
>Correlation is not causation.
Studying nutrition is hard but to dismiss everything is just intellectually lazy
>Property rights issue.
How?
>Plants are alive, too.
Plants don't have central nervous systems and more plants get cut down by feeding animals than if you where to eat it directly so eating less meat minimizes plant suffering.
I said eat less meat nigger, how shit is your reading comprehension.
Look at America, they don't give a single fuck about health. You think taste (pleasure) is enough justification for fucking with the environment and animals?
Nice user
Is that the best you can come up with?

it wasn't a justification. it was an explanation. you're talking to a brick wall because at the end of the day meat tastes good and people will fight tooth and nail because of that alone, even if they won't admit it.

It is natural to eat meat and to crave it. We have evolved as an omnivorous species to eat all sorts of things to maximize our survival. This is in line with many other generalist traits we evolved (such as our dentition) which helped us maximize reproduction within a dangerous and often changing environment. However, we never had any biological requirement to include meat as part of our diet, and certainly less so in contemporary times with modern knowledge about nutrition.

i'm on your side bruh i'm vegan

I'm a pescetarian. Want to go vegan but I don't have the willpower, cooking skills, money to rn. How do I transition? Can I get some environmental reasons why eating fish is unsustainable?

Overfishing has greatly affected many fisheries around the world. As much as 85% of the world's fisheries may be over-exploited, depleted, fully exploited or in recovery from exploitation.
Also some nets boats use catch sharks, turtles, and other protected sea creatures + it's ruining coral reefs.

Too many carbs in that picture for that meal to be healthy

All those carbs will be stored as excess fat. And you cannot be healthy with excess fat.

ty

>EAT LESS MEAT
>Why aren't you eating less meat Veeky Forums?
Because
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html?zx=90c20e5c8c6f481f
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html?zx=ac435913bbf6b607
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-war-on-coffee-and-common-sense-or.html?m=0

And your solution is... no fish? One of the healthiest foods existing.

>1) HEALTH: There have been many studies
>done on mortality and meat, especially processed meat, consumption and there is a positive association between lower mortality in particular due to cardiovascular diseases, but also to cancer.
>chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529694/#!po=57.9365
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/10/latest-study-shows-that-33-gkg-high.html
>breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

There's always a logical side and an emotional side.

Veganism wins the logical side, guys. You're emotionally attached to your meat like little beta cuck bitches.

>Correlation is not causation

Does anyone still think that stating this is somehow an argument? I get that you're a brainlet that just learned that convenient dismissive phrase but it doesn't make you intelligent.

>in particular due to cardiovascular diseases
>Contrary to popular belief, consuming a higher amount of fat (about 35 per cent of energy) is associated with a lower risk of death compared to lower intakes. However, a diet high in carbohydrates (of more than 60 per cent of energy) is related to higher mortality, although not with the risk of cardiovascular disease.
>The research on dietary fats found that they are not associated with major cardiovascular disease, but higher fat consumption was associated with lower mortality; this was seen for all major types of fats (saturated fats, polyunsaturated fats and mono unsaturated fats), with saturated fats being associated with lower stroke risk. The researchers point out that, while this may appear surprising to some, these new results are consistent with several observational studies and randomized controlled trials conducted in Western countries during the last two decades.
>The large new study, when viewed in the context of most previous studies, questions the conventional beliefs about dietary fats and clinical outcomes, says Mahshid Dehghan, the lead author for the study and an investigator at PHRI.
>sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170829091027.htm
>authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>uib.no/en/node/103172
>healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat
>bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
>press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html

"BUT GUYS THINK OF THE ANIMALS" is not the logical side. It's wholly emotional.

Understanding that the human body is evolutionary designed to digest and use meats and fats, on the other hand, is logical.

Faggot.

It literally is explaining that you're not making an argument. I note that you threw a tantrum and tried to poison the well, which is also not a argument, instead of explaining why you think your retarded opinion is valid.

summary:
higher CHO = higher HbA1c = higher mortality

and lowering HbA1c notably reduces mortality in a number of populations, so it's not mere correlation

>but also to cancer.
>diagnosisdiet.com/meat-and-cancer/
>chriskresser.com/red-meat-cancer-again-will-it-ever-stop/
>suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/12/devil-in-feeding-trough-pge-response-to.html
>mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/meat-cancer-bacon-who-report-mens-fitness-health
>rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/
>deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>deniseminger.com/the-china-study/
>westonaprice.org/our-blogs/the-curious-case-of-campbells-rats-does-protein-deficiency-prevent-cancer/
>westonaprice.org/our-blogs/taking-a-trip-down-memory-lane-fishing-for-our-good-friend-glutathione-in-the-waters-of-the-memory-hole-how-t-colin-campbell-helped-prove-that-protein-protects-us
>saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>reddit.com/r/keto/comments/2qxnro/red_meat_triggers_toxic_immune_reaction_which/cnai2od/
>caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/

>4)
Maybe these so called """chefs""" can cook a single fucking meal without dead flesh, chicken periods, or cow tit juice once in a while? Vegans wouldn't have to be annoying if these retards could actually cook a real meal.

>5)
Again, if food companies could stop being paid off by the meat, dairy, and egg industries to include their products whenever possible that would be great as well. Why the fuck does bread need whey in it? Why does bread need eggs in it?

>6)
The bloating goes away as your body gets used to the increase fiber. Slowly ramping up your fiber intake is a way to avoid the bloating issue. I fast 18 hours a day and am never hungry on this diet. I don't know where this "le vegans are always hungry!!" meme came from. Try eating more calorie-dense foods? Learn how to cook?

>7)

This is a social issue and has nothing to do with veganism itself.

"Sorry, I don't want to engage in destructive, unhealthy behavior anymore" is a completely fair stance to take. It's like how weekend warriors get pissy and offended when one of their friends decides to stop drinking. "Y-Y-You think you're better than me!?!?"

>2) ENVIRONMENT: The livestock sector may be the largest source of water pollution (due to animal wastes, fertilizers, pesticides), and it contributes to emergence of antibiotic resistance. It accounts for over 8% of global human water use. It is by far the biggest cause of land use, as it accounts for nearly 40% of the global land surface. It is a significant driver of biodiversity loss, as it causes deforestation, ocean dead zones, land degradation, pollution, and overfishing.
>beefmagazine.com/blog/4-facts-debunk-meat-horrible-article
>grist.org/sustainable-farming/farmer-responds-to-the-new-york-times-re-sustainable-meat/
>latimes.com/books/jacketcopy/la-ca-jc-nicolette-hahn-niman-20141123-story.html

>low carb blogs written by frauds and fake professionals

Wow, great argument.

Idiots like you state this whenever they can as if it makes them smart.

>X is strongly associated with Y

"C-C-Correlation d-does not equal c-causation! T-There's no way you can be right!"

Sick denial, friendo.

the genetic fallacy (appeal to origin) is not an argument

Blogs aren't scientific research.

Doesn't make me smart to know how to do babby-level argumentation. It's actually painful to me that I have to explain these sorts of errors.

But it does show you don't know how science works.

the genetic fallacy (appeal to origin) is *still* not an argument

Just fuck off. Anytime anyone sees a study with a conclusion they don't like they just dismissively say correlation isn't causation. It's become a dumb meme at this point.

Go ahead and be a braindead, cud chewing herbivore if you feel like it

these big human brains were developed through tons of meat consumption

>atherogenic diets somehow made us evolve

I'd hate to be this much of a brainlet.

Fucking vegans. Just kill yourself already. You don't heard from us preaching why meat is good to you vegans. Just shut up already.

50 IQ newfag poster who has done no research, can't even bench 3 plates or squat 4 plates, thinks that his 3 plate deadlift is good(fkn lol), has 25% bodyfat, and the test levels of a teenage girl.

Yes we do. All the fucking time. You idiots also crack jokes and make fun of us at every opportunity. You meatcucks can go fuck yourselves.

We required that amount of energy

and hunting also required cunning, it's why predators are by and large smarter than herbivore prey

We make fun of you because you are like this. When you vegans make your own general, I don't go into the thread. Yet, you still make more threads about 'meat is bad for you' and muh morals. Just fucking shut up already.

What am I supposed to eat? Fucking all carbs?

No, you make fun of us because you know you're making unethical, unhealthy choices by eating meat and other animal products.

Most vegans don't say a word in real life yet are mocked and ridiculed constantly by meat-eaters. "Protein tho, lions tho, what do you even eat tho, tradition tho, you think you're better than me?? tho, lol vegans are weak tho, i could never do that tho, bacon tho, plants have feelings too tho" are but a few of the retarded excuses heard from meat-eaters on an almost daily basis.

I'm keto as fuck right now no way I'm eating less meat

Vegetables and plant-based protein.

>all animals BAD four haert
>all plants GOOOD four haert

You have nothing to do with testosterone either, clearly.

Blue zones

If carbs are so bad then these places shouldn't exist. Instead, the heavy meat-eating societies are the ones with low life expectancy and chronic disease.

the moral argument of for feely liberals. not my thing.

also, there have been very recent and very conclusive studies that people who don't eat meat generally weigh less and carry less bodyfat, and after adjusting for the difference in bodyweight and bodyfat between both meat eaters and non meat eaters, the negative health effects of meat narrow to almost nothing.
but of course regular folk knew this all along. of course meat is fine.

the only legit and indisputable argument is the environmental one, which absolutely is very important. unfortunately, its not up to the plebs to solve this and will continue without government intervention, which there should be a movement towards. however i own and operate a dairy processing plant so i'm not going to do shit about it.

>not reading

"regular folk" are on all kinds of medications by the time they're 60.

The introduction of the food pyramid aka the point at which we thought fat made you fat is the point at which obesity started becoming a problem

>I need bloggers with fake credentials to exaggerate industry-funded studies to me and tell me my bad habits are healthy

>you know you're making unethical, unhealthy choices by eating meat and other animal products.
Thank you for proving my point, fucking idiot.
>Most vegans don't say a word in real life
Really? I know vegan people in my life and they never shut up about meat being bad for people and muh morals.
>plants have feelings too
Pretty sure that people who is saying this is not being serious. Whoever said this is making fun of vegans.

perhaps that's because the luxury of a lack of animal products in one's diet is reserved for people in richer countries and who are better financially positioned

No one actually followed the food pyramid.

>Bigger hamburgers
>Meatier, extra cheesier bigger pizzas
>Fried chicken, more piece deals over the years
>Butter, butter, butter is used in fucking everything
>More muffins, donuts, cakes

Look at China now. More people are getting the money to eat meat and would you look at that! Diabetes and obesity epidemic out of nowhere!

You're out of touch with reality.

regular folk also drink alcohol, don't sleep enough, take next to no exercise and will opt for fries and starch as much as they will for meat. meat is not the thing to point fingers at, given the atrocious lifestyle of most modern western people

pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

This is the biggest meme out there about veganism.

I live in rural China right now and lots of people here are vegan by necessity. Vegan foods are the cheapest foods. Meat and animal products are luxury products.

>2) ENVIRONMENT:
Soyboys everyone

I can say the same thing about you.

>fries and starch

There's nothing wrong with starch. The traditional Okinawan diet is 70% sweet potatoes and they had one of the longest life expectancies. Stop listening to your retarded keto gurus.

Keto has been verified to have a positive affect on seizure patients, diabetics as well as cancer patients.
Is there a significant disease that is cured by going vegetarian or vegan?
Id imagine less sugar is better for cancer patients but don't you still intake a significant amount of carbs that are later turned into sugars by the body?
And what are the affects of veganism on diabetics, does it reduce the need for insulin
How is the endocrine system affected by veganism?
Does it have a positive affect on IBS?

>assuming it's because of meat, not the sugar-packed veggie-oil-based shit that comprises 80% of the food on your list

Soyboy faggot

Yet another vegan thread without a body and timestamp pic

>No one actually followed the food pyramid.
You can stop lying any moment now

Japanese immigrants to the US lived longer when they retained only their traditional culture and adopted the American diet than those who retained both their traditional diets and culture.

And people ate more eat fatty meats, cheese, and buttery foods, negating the entire "low-fat" craze.

You're absolutely delusional. All of those products have way more fat in then than sugar.

i really meant chips and potatoes and shit, but you clearly missed the point, which was that meat doesn't even crack the top 10 reasons why regular people are unhealthy, its a small factor which is quite honestly nothing to be worried about to all but people who value living to 90 (fuck being that old)

Source

Interesting. I am assuming that this is not satire or something, that prove the reality is brutal. We have to eat sentient animals and plants to live.

Meat and animal products have everything to do with 14 or the 15 leading causes of death.

youtube.com/watch?v=d0IhZ-R1O8g

>And people ate more eat fatty meats, cheese, and buttery foods, negating the entire "low-fat" craze.
Reduced fat milk, fat free this and that on top of diet sodas hardly negate my point

No you don't. You would still minimize suffering and death on a vegan diet.

Begone, veganfag.

Fuck off.

Sucks being told how wrong you are, doesn't it? Again, veganism is the logical side. Meat-eating is the emotional woman side.

That's why we make fun of you guys. You are fucking annoying as fuck.

(((Dr. Greger)))

sorry but they don't. not watching your vid btw, not pausing black sabbath.

years ago fat was the killer. then carbs. then bread and milk, now meat. this is nothing new. this was and is all just fad trash which can be sort of half suggested by dredging up certain studies and cherry picking the hell out of them. and of course i'm not talking about processed american reclaimed "meat" and similar, but chicken, steak etc. the actual reason for bad health isn't because people eat meat, its because they eat like shit.

It was a trend just like how gluten-free is a trend. Not even close to everyone adopted it.

Because our very existence reminds you that you're making poor choices.

If you can refute anything he says then please try it. If you're just going to claim that he cherry picks without pointing out examples then just fuck off.

>not watching your vid

Not reading your post then.

>Meat-eating is the emotional woman side
i'm pro veganism but this is totally retarded. vegans are mostly liberals butthurt over youtube videos of slaughter houses and most meat eaters simply don't think about diet that much.

You're literally retarded. People who farm plants rely on animals for fertilizer. More plant consumption = more fertilizer consumption = more animals.

Unless you like fossil fuel-based synthetic fertilizers.

>If you can refute
I'm not watching some Jewish cult of personality tell me to eat more matzo
If you had an argument you would not have to post an hour long video