Daily reminder the genetically predetermined shape of the discs in your spine determine their ability to bear heavy...

Daily reminder the genetically predetermined shape of the discs in your spine determine their ability to bear heavy compressive loads or conversely their ability to bend and twist without herniation. It's not your size, stature, age or gender! If you have low back pain squatting or deadlifting it's probably not your form as these lifts are trivial tasks that even a retard can perform correctly. It's purely spinal genetics and there's nothing you can do to change this fact.

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I've had pretty bad pain on the right side of my tailbone for a few weeks. I don't think it's caused by deadlifting, I think it's caused by sitting on my ass all day but deadlifts do aggravate it a bit. What is this shit and how do I fix it?

a few years ago i would have disagreed vehemently and called op a faggot

but after seeing someone in /plg/ snap their shit while doing perfect form triples with 225lbs on deadlift i can't argue

op is still a faggot

Also I've actually had this for years but it's come back with a vengeance recently.

>people who skip abs/only work the large core muscles/don't do dynamic core work/skip flexibility training beyond squats actually believe this

it has nothing to do with any of that though

You have to stop doing what causes pain until you no longer experience symptoms and strengthen your core muscles. McGill recommends his big 3 routine google it but ultimately this means you need to work your abs, obliques, quadratus lumborum and lumbar erectors mainly. This process is effective through a phenomenon known as superstiffness.

Yeah I definitely should work my core more. I never really gave it any attention because I fell for the "squats and deadlifts work your core" meme. I know they technically do, but then again rows work your arms yet people still do curls.

Deadlifts only work some core muscles effectively, mainly the posterior side. It's a highly effective lumbar erector exercise but it also places a massive compressive load on the spine, possibly making it a poor choice for those born with ovoid shaped discs in their spine.

already repeating what I know. I get lower back pain on a 3.5 plate dead with perfect form. Nothing I've ever been able to do can fix the pain. But if I ask for help from the powerlifting community, I get yelled at and preached at about "muh form".

Words of wisdom on Veeky Forums of all places. Wow.

Yeah, powerlifting is not for everyone. Probably for no one, to be honest, all powerlifters are broken and on meds like pro wrestlers. Where was that artcle again?

>2012
>still not being able to read with understanding
>still trying to act smart by twisting someones else word because you didnt understand it yourself

youtu.be/KSS693haask


retarded niggers

go read a book called "gift of injury"

wrong.

> Bret: [...]you know that you can build up the body to be very strong. The muscles and as long as you hold good position and your training parameters are proper, your frequency, volumes, postures, load, all these things, you can build your body up to withstand that.

>Stu McGill: Some people can’t.

>Bret: Well that’s what I would like to talk about. Okay, I’m gonna veer off. You mentioned genetics as it pertains to the spine. Talk for a second about ovoid and the limacon disc shapes.

>Stu McGill: [...]we can have a variety of disc shapes. We inherit that from our parents. If you take a slice through your low back, you will look down and bird’s eye view and see the shape of your disc. Some are oval. If you twist an oval disc (an oval disc likes to twist). The great golfers, not all, tend to have ovoid shaped discs simply because of survival of the fittest. If you can’t swing a club very well and you can’t twist, then you’re going to choose another sport besides golf. People with these slender, oval discs tend to become golfers. Those types of spines can twist. Now, if you take the typical middle linebacker from NFL, they don’t have oval discs. By definition to survive in that sport, they have to take a lot of compression and they have much bigger, thicker, much bigger radius discs. But they’re shaped like a lima bean when you look down on them. they are big and indent at the back where the spinal canal is. When you get a thin branch and bend it, it will bend. There’s not much stress. But if you take a thick branch and bend it, it breaks. That’s what happens with very thick discs that tend to be limacon shaped. The hydraulic stresses that come from bending in big heavy spines get focused to the back of the curve of the limacon and these kinds of people end up with posterolateral disc bulges if they bend too much.

and then comes the part, where you listen to podcasts (theres 2 that Chris Duffin done with McGill) and read his book
and realize there should be NO SPINE bending during squats or deadlifts, so it can bear loads like a metal bar. This is achieved by combination of abdominal bracing, diaphram breathing and core musculature like lats, obliques.


fucking retard

because your form was never perfect to begin with

>NO SPINE bending during squats or deadlifts

not the guy you're responding to, but do you realize how asinine it is to suggest that every single rep over a training career that might span 10+ years will be performed with absolutely perfect form? powerlifters know damn well what good form is, yet many of them still get back injuries in training with submaximal loads

also, having your spine ramrod stiff only mitigates shear force, the compressive forces (which those oval disc geometries cannot tolerate well according to stuart) are still going to be there (actually slightly higher since shear and compression are orthogonal, you decrease the shear component by reducing flexion but you increase the compressive component)

again, listen to podcast

>powerlifters know damn well what good form is

you wouldnt believe how wrong you are

Mostly wrong
Depends on proportions

OP, you are a retard.

Core strength, how does it work?

respond to the other half of the post

the problem isn't flexion (which seriously raises the shear stress on the discs), it's that certain disc geometries can't tolerate compression, which is present regardless of how perfect your technique is

unless there's a form alteration you can make that will completely remove compressive forces from the lower back (maybe by wearing an exoskeleton) this is always going to be an issue for disc GDEs

This entire board is infested with powerlifting/strength lifting imbeciles. Anything that tells them that a handful of programs and a certain lifting style isn't the holy word and is dangerous and destructive will piss them off.
These same fucking people will then later lament that they don't have the genetics to do deadlifts and squats easier.

Continue to post wisdom and just sit back and let the loudest detractors inevitable back snappage speak for itself.

you realize that people with such degenerated discs are in far minority right? McGill even points it out in his book "Back Mechanic" if i recall correctly

You realize that even if you snap your shit up its literally not a big deal and you can stop lifting anytime you fucking want, and recovery takes 3~~ months at most unless you did some freak fucking accident and its just natural selection at works then?

For majority of people that actually do exercises properly, without rushing loads too fast (yes, spine adapts to bearing loads over time but that process is much slower than muscle and CNS strength gains t. McGill himself), while managing volume properly, risk is minimal, and most often if something is about to happen you will get warning signals here and there.

Its people that ignore all pains for long time that get massively hurt. They dont do assistance exercises, they do too much volume, lift with bad form (because they want to lift HARD, doesnt matter how shit the rep looked like)

If i would get a dollar for every single person doing diddly or squat at my gym, that has no clue what the fuck is hip hinge, well i would have about 50 dollars


Before you start doing memeposts and forcing your memeopinions by paraphrasing people that actually know their shit, go read a book nigger

>you realize that people with such degenerated discs are in far minority right? McGill even points it out in his book "Back Mechanic" if i recall correctly

we're not talking about degenerated discs, we're talking about disc geometries that can't tolerate compression well

>You realize that even if you snap your shit up its literally not a big deal and you can stop lifting anytime you fucking want, and recovery takes 3~~ months at most unless you did some freak fucking accident and its just natural selection at works then?

and will the discs then change shape to the type that can tolerate compressive loading? unless they do, just doing mcgill's big three and going back to the same type of training is not a solution and that person will just reinjure themselves

>For majority of people that actually do exercises properly, without rushing loads too fast (yes, spine adapts to bearing loads over time but that process is much slower than muscle and CNS strength gains t. McGill himself), while managing volume properly, risk is minimal, and most often if something is about to happen you will get warning signals here and there.

we're not talking about the majority of people, we're talking about a subsection of the population with disc geometries that are adept at twisting and bending and not adept at handling compressive loads - these people should probably not be powerlifting, full stop

>Its people that ignore all pains for long time that get massively hurt. They dont do assistance exercises, they do too much volume, lift with bad form (because they want to lift HARD, doesnt matter how shit the rep looked like)

ah yes, the type of magical "good form" that results in no compressive forces being transmitted through the lower back, brilliant

>Before you start doing memeposts

i'm not the guy starting these threads lmao

your argument is like saying you're invincible in a gunfight provided no one shoots you.

Shit, those equations scare me (I never properly learned how yo do derivatives and integrals)

Hey, it's you from the future with fucked up lower back and coccyx pain.

Get an ergonomic chair that is highly flexible (moving back rest, seat, cushion with little hole for your tailbone), get an adjustable table; switch from seated to standing every half an hours, also, move around when at work.

Focus heavily on your core an back muscles. These will keep the pain away. You have upper core, lower core, those diagonal thingies, sides and back (spine) muscles. Deadlifts and shit don't cut it really.

Hope it helps.

Also, stretch your back daily (cobra, beach scissors, hip movement), also stretch all muscles you've worked on.

Also, get one of those fascism rolls (for the lack of a better word, i give you the best alternative). Those hard rolls that you can ... well, roll on.

Please quote me where McGill has ever said anything like this. Just about everybody (without full-on deformities or past injuries) can find a squat and deadlift form that's comfortable.

Who? Who did you see do this?

he literally said this

>that person will just reinjure themselves

"May" "possibly" reinjure themselves

He said some people do not have it in them to be really really strong.

WILL reinjure themselves.

No he made a clear distinction between two genetically predetermined disc shapes and their predisposition to task based injuries.

You're weak and a coward. I've herniated a disc, took a few months of McGill exercises and stretching, I've pretty much dropped low-bar, and guess what, five years later I'm bigger, stronger, and have less pain and better movement than ever. And I'm a pretty good golfer, faggot.

lol this is the same shit that gets parroted around /PLG/. I've literally posted my form videos before and everyone said my form was fine. Even had a strength and conditioning coach that works with the Texas A&M football team say my shit was clean. Back still hurts. But I'm sure you know better.

>No timestamped pics
Go LARP in plg faggot.

there are always outliers. mcgill's research is based on thousands of examples and his peer reviewed research

Yeah and he never says that there's a population that should avoid resistance training.

Nobody in this thread said to avoid resistance training anywhere.

Re-read the OP and come back with some good-faith arguments backed by real quotes.

what

you've officially lost the argument

To these people resistance training = deadlifts and squats and bench and ohp only.

Yes they are that fucking brainwashed and or stupid.

Which significant resistance training exercises other than chins and dips do not load the spine? Oh right none of them because that's how you get big and strong. If Lamar Gant could deadlift, so can you.

A lot of back pain is attributable to weak core, so the back has to take more of the strain than it should. Similar to how an ankle/knee/hip problem puts stress on the other two. It's about the weakest link in the chain. Or so I've been told, maybe someone else can confirm.

Okay.
Wow.
Have fun with that.

I'd argue that most cases of lower back pain from lifting are due to the modern lifestyle which includes a lot of sitting, a well documented detriment to your posture. In my case switching to a standing desk and doing more core exercises and stretches removed the lower back pain that I acquired through lifting.

you don't need a total absence of spinal loading, just less of it

for upper body it should be obvious (since most upper body exercises other than OHP don't load the spine), for lower body stuff like rear leg elevated split squats would be your best bet

lamar gant's ability to deadlift with scoliosis has no bearing on this argument, this argument is about disc geometries and their ability to resist cyclical compressive loading, but thanks for making yourself look like even more of a fucking brainlet

15 million years of hominid evolution have come to you shitposting on Veeky Forums about how you can't pick things up off the ground.

Stuart McGill's work does not support whatever it is you're arguing. Unless all you're saying is "some people have different shaped bones."

Ah, you don't understand what is being said. All you know is that it's stating that everyone can't do your precious deadlifting and squats without injuring themselves.

1. pull ups and ring dips are fantastic exercises so minimizing them like this makes you sound incredibly stupid at face value
2. inverted rows can be progressed to a point I bet you can't do one strict and don't load the spine at all
3. unilateral work can be abused to cut the spinal loading in half or more as you can get equal resistance to the target muscle with much less weight so anything single leg/arm like rdl, split squat, press, clean, etc could be viable if not flat out superior to bilateral work for sports training in particular
4. prowler/sled
5. push ups
6. planks variations, bodysaw, ab rollouts
7. ring work in general, you can copy any lift on them and make it harder abusing lever arm lengths
8. sprints, hill sprints, bicycle sprints, incline treadmill sprints

1. I can pick things up off the ground just fine, and unless you deadlift >500lbs I outlifted you at 17 years old
2. What I'm saying, exactly, is that some people have discs that are just not suited to cyclical compressive loading (as stated by McGill himself in an exact fucking excerpt from an interview above), and those people (after their near inevitable shit-snapping occurs) should avoid exercises that heavily load the spine

Are you done being fucking stupid yet?

Mmmmjusssst about everyone can though.

And you know this how?

9. machines, cable machines. numerous machines can give a full body workout with little or no spinal compression
10. bands. a set of resistance bands and your bodyweight can provide a challenge to seasoned powerlifters


if that's not enough you're absolutely retarded and have no clue what resistance training is.

not that guy, but just for comparison's sake how much did you weigh at 17 and how much did you deadlift when you just started.
At 18 yo 151 pounds i did 3pl8 first deadlift and moved to 4pl8 a week later
>tfw excellent spinal disc shape.