Monday first day at gym

>Monday first day at gym
>do SS as recommended by Veeky Forums
>finish in under 20 minutes
>PT is like ''already going home?''

>I go today only to ask PT for some routine
>he says Lyle Mcdonald's Bulking Routine
>looks fun
>guess I'll ditch SS

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>finish in under 20 minutes.
SS has a total of 20 sets if you do all the companion lifts, which you should. You should take minimum 1 minute breaks between sets. If you're done in 20 minutes you've done something wrong. It should be closer to 30-40.

Doing a hypertrophy routine as a beginner will gain you nothing long term.

I do Jason Blaha's ICF 5x5
it's basically SS with more upper body volume.

>doesn't know how SS works and is repping another program
gee I wonder who could be behind this post

It is also fucking retarded

Squats:
>First set:
>1 min
>Rest
>5 mins
>Second set:
>1 min
>Rest
>5 mins
>final set
>1 min
>Rest
>5 mins

OHP:
>First set:
>1 min
>Rest
>5 mins
>Second set:
>1 min
>Rest
>5 mins
>final set
>1 min
>Rest
>5 mins

Deadlift
First set:
1 min

Retarded are the fucking SS shills

They say:

Wanna get jacked? Do SS. Wanna get aesthetic? Do SS. Wanna bodybuild? Do SS. Wanna become CEO of a Fortune 500 company? Do SS.

Only on the internet does this madness exist! Only on the internet do people think that squatting and eating a 2000 calorie surplus a day will cut bodyfat, build and sculpt your bicep peak and give you boulder shoulders.

I’ve never known or met anyone IRL who has looked well built and lean who built themselves up using a low volume, low rep, CNS wrecker of a routine. Plenty have done it with bench presses or inclines, pulldowns/pull-ups, curls, shoulder side raises, rope pushdowns and leg presses though (I would also add that diamond push-ups are awesome tricep builders, and high rep OHPs blow your shoulders out like you’re on trenbolone!).

I wouldn’t blame the likes of Mark Rippetoe for this trend (he has made numerous clarifications, and has never presented himself as other than a strength coach) but rather the army of dedicated SSers that present the program as the answer to all problems and denigrate anyone doing things differently with endless pejoratives and e-statting.

>5 mins rest
stop wasting your time user

basically SS/SL with some accessories (curls, shrugs, etc), SS fags: "It is also fucking retarded"

Please get off Rippetoad's gross dick

>Wanna get aesthetic? Do SS.

Literally nobody says that.

1 minute rest for big compounds is frankly downright retarded. 5 minute rest are also absolutely (esp for squat and DL) fine you gains goblin.

>never read the book
>still talks about SS

How is this a counterargument. BTW I have read the book, including all of Rippetoe's nonsense philosophy spiel.

Everyday a beginner to the gym will ask what program he should do, Veeky Forums will usually respond with either Starting Strength or Stronglifts and order them to eat a lot.

A few months will pass and the beginner have stalled and is confused with why he’s not gaining any muscle despite putting so much weight on the bar.

They say he should stick with the program, read the book, get a lot of sleep and eat even more food and not to switch programs unless he’s reached “intermediate” lifts 1/2/3/4.

The beginner sticks with it and runs it for 1 year, while making very little progress.

Here is where the problem actually lays: Starting Strength and Stronglifts does not actually build muscle.

Groups on the internet, such as the SS shills, have probably left untold amounts of guys disappointed with how they've looked after 3-12 months.

Meanwhile, the "bro" who goes to the gym and does curls, bench, shoulders and a few chin-ups and leg presses totally blows the SS "student" out of the water, getting bigger arms, shoulders, pecs and upper back without that much weight gain.

But one person is stronger than the other

smells like summer in here

the guy who is stronger is also probably 45lb heavier. Thank you based GOMAD

SS is so stupid, PPL is superior for recomp in terms of metabolic stress, frequency of protein synthesis, and a nice balance of isolation and compound movements : )

the sticky is a j0ke. except for cico anyways

do your own research

and the other looks way better

But one is stronger.

Becouse is Starting Strength not Starting Muscle

It really troubles me when a bunch of fat guys such as *some* of those on the SS forums — proud of being shockingly out of condition — feel they are qualified to advise people on weight loss and body recomposition and “call out” anyone who does things a little differently and succeed, looking for evidence of their “failure”.

I don’t know if the SS partisans/internet ultras realize the implications of telling a light framed skinny-fat guy to go and get 15-20kg fatter in exchange for a < 5kg muscle gain. I'm talking blood sugar problems, further hormonal issues, etc. Most of those guys don't give a damn about bloodwork or health. Plenty of them will have ceased lifting by 40 years of age through injury.

Linear progressions take so many forms. The reason why ones like SS are so popular is that they've been created with a view to being inherently "programmable". To me, progression encompasses so many things:

– more reps
– more sets (don't go mad and jump from 2 to 10 sets per exercise next session, though!)
– better *quality* reps by feeling the muscles working more
– increased TUT per set
– same weight/reps/sets but shorter resting periods
– etc…

Weight on a bar is just one way to go about things and the easiest in the early weeks, even if in a caloric deficit. But it comes to an end and there's no reason to push yourself towards injury or obesity when your goal is to look better shirtless and optimise health + hormones + nutrient uptake/partitioning.

The people who do Starting Strength are recognizable immediately ie a big ass, wide hips, small arms and shoulders and minimum 30% bodyfat.

but the other looks way better

Thats interesting and also a load of shit. I went from 160 to 185 in 3 months of SS, kept stalling on squats and changed to a different routine because my LINEAR gains were over for the time being. Lifted with upper/lower for another 9 months. Then went on Reg Parks again for the linear gains.

I dont know what you all fags are smoking, its all there in the sticky.

b-b-b-but one is stronger!

But one is stronger.

>this fucking pasta again
go away crossfaggot

but the other looks way better

>a southern white gentile man who constantly berates leftism and veganism is a crypto-Jew
the absolute state of Veeky Forums

But one is stronger.
Seeing the difficulty here, yet?

...

I allowed myself to fall into the trap of the whole “eat big to get big” dogma, whilst doing a pathetically low volume of lifting such as that found in 3×5 programs, I do feel that others (especially very young guys who don’t know any lifters IRL) will continue to get suckered into GOMAD whilst doing routines that last no longer than 20-25 minutes and just make them hate what they see in the mirror.

I know I did. I was fat, injured, still had skinny arms and didn’t lift again for years until more recent times. That was once the last of my tendonosis had cleared up, haha.

Not to mention, those routines just aren’t fun. They’re billed as “simple” but most of them have some elaborate deload process built in once you plateau that you’d never remember unless you did nothing but read that program day and night.

Basically if you ask anything about aesthetics in the starting strength forum, you are immediately told by the coaches to eat 6000 to 10,000 calories and avoid isolation exercises and cardio and only do SS . If you try to argue, you are immediately labeled as a TROLL.

>program called starting strength or stronglifts
>people do these expecting to get big
>end up just getting strong

If you're too stupid to actually learn how your body works, and worse you actually use Veeky Forums as a source of advice instead of rightly viewing it all as satire and memes... then you don't deserve to get the results you want.

Starting strength has the best poster boy for their program, that lard ass Zach Evetts.

That’s the result you get from GOMAD and following a fatass coach.

I mean the sticky lays it all out pretty clearly
>inb4 implying anybody reads the sticky

This hasn't happened in the past 4 years at least

doesnt the sticky also imply this shouldn't be the end of your research? Doesnt it say somewhere if you can't take the time to even just read the sticky, you won't get anywhere?

That benching 3pl8 doesn't compare to being lean and athletic? Looking lean with moderate muscle is GOAT

thoughts on 'AllPro'?

forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=169172473

apart from the fact it seems fucking slow (im turning the rep increase cadence up to each session) it seems pretty good?

>finish in under 20 minutes
Not possible. You fucked something up OP

PREACH

this is true.
SL and SS just arent good enough novice routines.
They are way too unbalanced, both towards leg and towards pure """"strenght"""", with no mention of how to deal with stalls and periodization.
They are not the best for anybody interested in strenght training, and they are probably the worst for somebody interested in aesthetics

actually not really
because, due to the continuous stalls, and not knowing why that is happening and how to solve it, the beginner/novice will end up being way weaker than a dudebro doing PPL and is also gifted.

What the fuck are dumb shits on about? I've gained 20lbs of muscle (yes, not of fat) over a period of 1 year of slow bulking. I was 5'10 about 135 and now I'm almost 160. All I did was SS and variatons (adding acessories), but essentially I never did anything different than doing full body workouts with 3x5 on compounds and some sets of 8-20 reps on acessories.

pics

That being lean and athletic doesn't compare to benching 3pl8. Seeing the difficulty here?

>A beginner will not know how to handle plateau's
And you believe novices not knowing how to progress is unique to particular programmes?
>and is also gifted.
Nonsensical as is. Do elaborate.

Just the regular stuff aka tricking beginners into wasting their time by not reading the sticky or doing SS so that they can post embarrassing progress pics later on.
It's really shitty but also a good way to weed out retards.

gotta love how SS fags never post pics
yet those CBT are full of guys with nice bodies who only do PPL or brosplits

...

I need help guys.

I want to lift mainly for muscular growth and aesthetics. Pure strength isn't really a huge concern for me. SS doesn't help growth as much as it does just strength. What program should I do for size aesthetics?

PPL is really great, but not for absolute begginers.
I'm gonna keep doing my full body workouts as I'm still making gains, tho.

Not gonna post pics because I know you guys are gonna shit on me no matter what (I'm 5'10 157) but on CBT I get compliments on my body and transformation threads too, because I was basically an auschwitz survivor.

>Doing a hypertrophy routine as a beginner will gain you nothing long term.
except for a fuck ton of hypertrophy gains and damage free joints?

PPL, fullbody with loads of accessories, 2 squat days, or 1 squat and 1 squat assistance movement

>SS and bulk
>cut and continue lifting
>???
is that a bad idea for someone interested in getting strong, and not aesthetic?

Just to clarify follow the SS + acessories routine, not purely the compounds of SS. And also don't bulk like a retard like the book says, this is quite obvious, that you're just gonna get fat and strong this way. Diet is the single most important thing.

except everyone does

>do SS as recommended by Veeky Forums
>finish in under 20 minutes

Huh?

Should've done GSLP man, that's the best beginner program for a good balance of strength and aesthetics

SS faggot
oh and don't forget to read the book

is 5x5 bad for compounds?
here's my current

PUSH
Bench Press/OHP 5x5
Bench Press/OHP (select opposite of first movement) 3x8
Incline DB Bench Press 3x10
LTE 3x12
Close Grip Bench Press 3x10
Lateral Raises 3x12 (50% superset until failure)

PULL
Barbell Rows 5x5
Pullups 3x5-12
Chest Supported Rows 3x8-12
Rear Delt Flies 5x15
Barbell Curls 4x8-12
Hammer Curls 4x8-12

LEGS
Squats 5x5
Hamstring Curls 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Cardio

on some days I do 5x5 for bench and OHP and some days i do 3x8

it's ideal, but when you get to weights you barely can lift do 3x6

The progression is downright retarded, the more advanced you get the bigger the jumps in weight. YUGE amounts of problems with this program, shitty as hell

Do you speak from personal experience? post body and lifts

bullshit
I did a hypertrophy routine and it was shit. Made little size gains. For true weak skellies, it's always best to do SS.

>rest 5 minutes
Hurry the fuck up asshole you're hogging the rack

no but don't go balls to the wall with your bulk, go for a "lean bulk". Add in accessories and more upper back/arm work
the template for SS is good for beginner strength gains but you'd probably be happier if you also looked like you lifted

what do you mean?
so when I start stalling on 5x5 do 3x6 instead, and keep 3x8 the same?
been lifting for 5 months...so not much of a "stall" yet..this is what PPL has got me so far and PPL seems to be the best for aesthetics

Probably not eating enough. I first did a PPLxPPL routine and made decent chest/arm gains meanwhile my bench was shit at 185 for 5 after ~8 months and barely squatted/deadlifted
Still wish I had done a strength program but with accessories

>Do you speak from personal experience?
yes
>post body and lifts
those are both trash precisely because I did SS as my starting routine, and I am not athletically gifted.
There is a reason I say the thing I say, I know it's hard due to the ocean of shitposting, but I try to help people avoid the mistakes I made

is this shit 3 times a week or 6?

>so when I start stalling on 5x5 do 3x6 instead, and keep 3x8 the same?

yes or even 3x5.
on 3x8 keep that range 3x8-12 but lower weight.

>>post body and lifts
>those are both trash precisely because I did SS as my starting routine

lmao see what what we mean about SS?

PPLxPPL or PPLPPL

a PLPxPLP would work too if you burn out easy

Is SS is bad then what is a good program?

t. geneticlet

I did a strength routine, stalled and stopped making gains around 6 months in. Switched to a hypertrophy routine and blasted through my plateaus. I also started making noticeable size gains. This is even on a PxPxLxPxPxLx routine which apparently is shit. Well it obviously wasn’t for me.

A.
Horizontal Compound Press
Horizontal Compound Pull
Vertical Compound Push
Vertical Compound Pull
Chest Isolation
Delt Isolation
Biceps
Triceps

B.
Quad Compound Movement
Deadlift or variation
Quad accesory
Hamstring Accesory
Calves isolation
Abs

ABxABxx

other guy isn't me, I only bully jerkbags and dumb people. That's fair but also odd, SS should yield decent strength gains for most people. What's your plan now?

or ABABAxx

SS works for people 3 groups of people
>athletes or people with good gpp
>people who are gifted leverage and muscle wise
>fatsos
I've been a tweaked fullbody with 2 squat and bench days, and a bunch of assistance work, a bit inspired by gzcl.
might try his actual routine, might give greg nuckols' programs another try. I really dont know at the moment, I'm feeling a bit worn out, both mentally and physically...a couple more aches than I would like, went a bit too hard recently, since I finally was able to put some work in consistently and started progressing for the first time in ages

best to do both, either doing low reps on main compound followed by high rep accessory work or heavy/light split

if you cant hit 1/2/3/4 in 3 months you should quit lifting because your genetics are dog shit

I hit those in just 3 weeks of doing SS
suck that faggot

>SS has a total of 20 sets

How do you figure? Not counting warm up sets (the number of which will vary depending on the lifter), one workout has three squat sets, three OHP sets, a deadlift set, and maybe three chin up sets. The other workout has three squat sets, three bench press sets, and five power clean sets.

Neither of those add up to 20, you have no idea what you're talking about, go read the book.

If it was his first workout, and he just lifting the bar instead of adding weight to the point the bar speed slowed down compared to the empty bar sets, he could have easily flown through it without resting much at all. Even if he did add a bit of weight, if he started appropriately light, there wouldn't be a great need for rest in between sets.

This is a good thing. He gets done quick, back to his life, he won't end up cripplingly sore all at once, if he's paying attention, he'll be adequate at performing the lifts BEFORE the weight gets heavy enough to risk injury, and he'll LP up into actual weight shortly regardless.

SS works for exactly one group of people: n00bs. If you are a n00b, you should do SS. No exceptions.

i hit it within three days
ride my cock nigger!

i got it within three hours
your a beta cuck

that shit literally took me three minutes
you need to reroll for shitty genetics

Hey Fig, don't bother. You're right before, this board is dead retarded. Just let the DYEL do whatever and let them have their glory.

>on my kness
>slurp

5 minute rest between every set is literally in the starting strength introduction.
it should take a minimum of 45min for a full SS workout.

>SS works for exactly one group of people: n00bs. If you are a n00b, you should do SS. No exceptions.

fat n00bs

I used to do starting strength when I began lifting, and all I can say is that I got a lot stronger but just like you I had nothing to show for it and I injured my knee from squatting heavy 3 times a week.
My knee has never been the same since.

Sure starting strength will get you stronger and it’s simple, but that’s it.

I'm killing time eating a quesadilla before heading to the gym. Someone might actually listen, actually starting Lifting, and actually make some level of progress.

It's best for skinny n00bs. By the end of it, if they do it right (read: good form, belt, shoes, no stupid bullshit Men's Health tier modifications to the prescribed workouts, eat and sleep enough), they'll be neither skinny nor n00bs.

This, by the way, will take AT ABSOLUTE MOST 6 months. Probably more like 3-4 months. So you won't be getting super swole by the end of it. You'll just be thicker (provided you started skinny anyway), stronger, and fully prepared to go on some weekly-repeating routine based around the core barbell lifts and tailored to meet whatever goal(s) you have.

>thicker

sure on lower body

...

This is me after 3 weeks of ss
Went up from 64 kilos to 70

this , see you in a year when you look the same and still can't squat your body weight

i hate trip faggots, but i'll be damned if this guy doesn't give good info every post i see from him

>hypertrophy/strength false dichotomy meme
Ishygddt

This. Fucking hell don't fall for the SS meme.