How are those spiritual gains coming along Veeky Forums?

I like the idea of worshiping a deserving, benevolent God, but I simply can't bring myself to actually BELIEVE in any

Rosary 1x5

>believing in the actual material existence of God
You're too much of a brainlet for religion, child.

Pretty good. Reconnected with the gods of my ancestors. Don't have to bow or submit, not cursed with sin for existing, all I have to do is follow their examples and be as great as I can be.

That doesn't look like a bible to me.

Enlighten me, then

Just look at it this way; if you were born in Nepal or something, you'd be a buddhist.
If you were born a native american indian in the year 1200, you would have never heard about Jesus Christ

>Just fake it 'til you make it

Also look up dutch catechism. Sounds like you would get something out of this.

not him, but if you’re struggling on convincing yourself to believe, you’re doing it wrong. first study and learn Christ and his church. then employ and follow its teachings. Stick to it and pray and faith may reveal itself to you

You should roll. Just to be save

>If you were born a native american indian in the year 1200, you would have never heard about Jesus Christ

>Stick to it and pray and faith may reveal itself to you
What is this supposed to mean? Stick with it, and I'll convince myself that I'm not just LARPing?

>Sinful thought enters my head
>See Cross in reflection while walking down street
Pretty good

God's not real :^)

>he expects to look like Arnold before he started lifting

Roll faggot

If God is such a good guy, why did he invent the concept of sin and evil?

Just watch 60 hours of Jordan Peterson bible lectures and you'll get it.

>if mommy love me why she not let me eat cookie?

you're an absolute faggot

Except mommy never had the ability to make cookies healthy eating. God could do whatever the fuck he wanted, so why did he feel the need to create a world with sin in it?

>life without strife is worth living

He gave us free will. We create the sin.

But God could simply have made life worth living without strife. Isn't he limitless? Why would he create a world wherein pain and evil was integral parts, when he could've just decided not to?

>implying he didn't
>implying Eve didn't fuck us all over

Literally what did you mean by this image?
I'm christian/buddhist for the record. The bible is incomplete and has been alterered. Don't forget it was written by men and not by God

But isn't God responsible for every thought that humans have? Doesn't every deed originate in him? Wasn't God responsible for both our willingness to sin, and our ability to?

thank you user, I will devote more of my time to prayer and worship.

Are you saying that Eve was out of God's control? Are you saying that it was not His creation, with his thoughts and his agency, that decided to sin?

Free will basically
Also, there is much more beyond our current human life. That's why school shootings still happen. Those people aren't "dead", I mean their souls aren't. The soul is eternal

>God gives free will
>Do what you like, but do certain things and bad things will happen
>Do bad things
>"ITS GODS FAULT BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO ME"

Evil is like a cavity, the absence of goodness. CS lewis probably said it best, he expresses his love via the total drama of free agency.
Its like hot vs cold. If there is infinite heat, there is no coldness, there has to be both.

So, is getting a disease or illness a function of how bad our actions are?

Nonexistent, probably like your magic man
I don’t care if god is real or not. There’s no certainty in religion, only speculation, and I’m not going to waste my time on something as empty as fairytales. When I die I’ll find out the truth, regardless of what end it is I’ll accept it.

Read "the problem" of pain" by CS Lewis.
It is better to have created life and take the risk, than to not have created at all. God can do whatever he wants, and allowing the creation to rebel is a necessary part of our free agency. If we have no that, we are robots.

Could you respond to me like I'm an actual person, instead of memetexting me?
God gives "free" will, knowing full well (since God knows everything, since all is God) how humanity is going to use it. Humanity has no choice in the matter of how they use their free will, because they are entirely beholden to the events that God set in motion.
When Eve decided to sin, she does so because God put that thought in her. God decided that Eve was to sin, because all that exists comes from him.

Imagine that I write a story. In the story, there's a character that goes on a genocide. Imagine if I started talking shit about this character, saying that he could simply have chosen to be a good guy. But benevolence was never in the cards for him, because I had already decided to write him as a genociding dickhead

>what is free will

>Its like hot vs cold. If there is infinite heat, there is no coldness, there has to be both.
But only because God decided to make it so

I lift for Allah

No, the dynamic that gives rise to evolution, gives rise to disease. Think of it like this, we need microevolution to function, the mutations of the cells. Radiation will damage the cell causing things to replicate out of control, without radiation we have no sun etc.
If you start thinking its a bad design, its getting into another realm of "could i have done it better". It is the irreducible complexity of organic life.

>We're all a part of God's plan
>We have free will
Fucking pick one

What is more interesting:
A fishtank filled with living fish or a screensaver of a fishtank?

Right, it is the dynamics of the universe, it just is how nature operates at least in this dimension. You cannot really question it because it exists and is unalterable.

>A fishtank filled with living fish or a screensaver of a fishtank?
The first one, of course. But that's only because I'm a human being, and we need stimulation. See, God had the ability to make humans that wouldn't need that sort of thing. God made ALL the rules, every single one

Right, so god sees the future of all possible outcomes of his decisions, in our scenario saw the outcome of what would happen once he gave free will to humans, and decided to do it anyway, for what purpose who knows, we dont know the outcomes of the other scenarios, this world could be the best path.

>im not gonna waste my time on fairy tales
>probably watches fictional movies and videogames

>We shall make them in our image
>Implying god is nothing like us

Did it ever occur to you that God knows more than you do?

you need the oposite of god to be able to exist.

you need darkness to see shadows.
you need cold to see hot.
you need hunger to value food.

and so on.
also free will.

>this world could be the best path.
But that doesn't seem possible, when considering that God could do literally everything that he wanted. Why couldn't he have made an Eve that wouldn't be susceptible to corruption? Why did he make one that was? Why did he make a world wherein she would have the ability to sin?

Unless God has limitation, of course

It has to do with expressing love, to allow love back and forth between beings. God needs nothing whatsoever, but marvels in creation, especially ones that come back to him on their own free will. (christian apologetic tradition). He wants others to experience the divine goodness, you can experience it here and now via the holy ghost/spirit.

>you need darkness to see shadows.
>you need cold to see hot.
>you need hunger to value food.
Again, only because God arbitrarily decided to make it so

>How are those spiritual gains coming along Veeky Forums?
Not at all. I don't really know what people mean by spirituality, or why I'd want to have it.

Yeah, but me reading moby dick doesn't mean I have to give money to a bunch of child diddlers

how can you draw a painting when you can't use values (light to dark)?

Of course. There is no rule that says that divinity is to be understood by common rational. Maybe he has good reason. Maybe he had no choice. Maybe it's all a big joke, and the punchline is only clear to us when we get to the afterlife. Maybe we're alone in the universe, and nothing but eternal unconsciousness awaits us beyond our deaths

I can't. But I'm not restricted by the same rules that God (presumably) is

If we do not have free agency, that is not love. If you fully control the actions of others, you do not love them, it is dysfunctional at best. He wants you to come back to him on your own accord. It is better to risk the universe we live in than to not have created at all.
Also dont read genesis LITERALLY. It is the story of how man rebelled against god Adam/man, Eve/woman, and the snake/sin. It is a theological meditation on creation.

reminder that atheism is literally jewish.
it was popularized Lucien Febvre which has an unknown history besides that he was mentored by marc bloch. which is a jew.

That depends on why god even made us

We don’t know what purpose he has for the human race as a whole. Speculating on why he didn’t do something different is fruitless if we don’t know that.

understanding god is like mario trying to understand miyamoto and why his world is like miyamoto designed it.

Rollan

>Why couldn't he have made an Eve that wouldn't be susceptible to corruption? Why did he make one that was? Why did he make a world wherein she would have the ability to sin?

There are "perfect" realms out there.
You will wither reach them by spiritually ascending and gaining good karma.
This human life is an experiment, so to speak. And what you accomplish in this life will greatly impact the path your soul will take once your flesh vessel ceases ro function

I understand, user. The problem I have is that I have a hard time grasping how an all-knowing God could give anyone free will. He has already decided, after all, how that free will is spent

God gives us free will, but he already decided how we were going to use it

How can you speak so confidently on this? How can you so definitely say that the soul does exist?

Did I say I was atheist? I can't prove God doesn't exist, but you can prove he does. Why waste time on things that can't be proven?

not him, but you can look up the documented cases of kids who remember previous lives who then later meet their old life relatives.

Could you direct me to some of these, if it's not too much trouble?

consciouslifestylemag.com/reincarnation-stories-proof-past-life/

I lift and stay in shape praying that Christians and heretics like you fight side by side to wipe the jewish menace off the earth

I can only dream that we purge all traces of islam in the occident after that

Thanks

I was visited by the holy spirit when I seriously considered suicide for the 1st time in my life. It lead me to research religion, astral projection, near-death experiences and everything paranormal.
I have absolutely no doubts there is much, much more to this "human life"

That’s a fucked up pic, faggot

I used to be a hardcore atheist myself, not gonna go into why that changed but he wants you to make your own choices and doesnt control you specifically, but occasionally will use people for the greater good in a limited manner as to not disturb that free will. Think of it like whispering in your ear to go talk to someone or to do something that is reconcilable with the moral compass that you share.

Eternity is like a shore of a river and time is our universe, you can observe everything, and time has already ended, from the standpoint of eternity. This reconciles all the prophecy of ancient documents.

We do have ultimate free will, you can either come back to the father, or reject the love he has to offer, rejecting it is being sucked into the privation of goodness like murder, and all other bad things, you reject the very simple obedience he demands that was expressed through Jesus.

>I was visited by the holy spirit
Please elaborate

im not him but i posted about about it too "holy ghost/holy spirit", It is a manifestation of god's essence that you can PHYSICALLY feel, and speaks to you, directs you. In the gospels they call it "the comforter". When you give your life back to the father, he operates in you and through you.

How can you be certain that it isn't simply delusion and mental illness?
That's definitely the first thing I'd think, confronted by any ghost.

That's another issue I have: How can you discern mystical experiences from mental illness ones?

Typical simplistic atheist brainlet...

Stop trying to apply a scientific framework to religion, its a mistake that atheists and fundamentalists both make.

Scienctific truth is the realm of facts. Facts describe what the world is, what happened in the past etc.

Religious truth is the realm of wisdom. Wisdom describes how to act in the world in a way that is best for you, for those around you, for your society and for the future.

Atheists are retarded because they think that facts can give you morals, they're wrong, they just end up as nihilists or communists.
Fundamentalists are retarded because they think that the bible is a factual historical document, they just look like idiots to any vaguely educated person.

So fine, if you want to argue against a strawman fundamentalist and pick holes in their creationism, have fun, but what you're doing here is assuming that God is the factual creator of the factual universe. You're trying to apply a fact-based reasoning to a completely different domain of thought and its like watching a toddler try to put a square peg in a round hole.

Would you pick factual inconsistencies in the fable of the The Tortoise and the Hare and be like "hurr animals can't talk this is dum" or would you be wise enough to understand the moral of the story and incorporate that lesson into your life in a positive way? If you're not a retard you'd take the lesson.

Now imagine that the lessons come from stories that have been around for thousands of years, and probably predate writing by tens of thousands of years. You can take these lessons and live by them, and have a happy meaningful and fulfilling life, and you can do it without having to believe in any kind of supernatural element to the universe at all.

The general Christian consensus is that God created humans in order for us to experience & enjoy His presence, and to give Him glory. He showcases His power and glory in full to us in two ways. Through mercy and through wrath.

He gave us the ability to sin (free will) so that He could showcase His mercy by forgiving us. This is why Christ died on the cross - it's impossible for us to atone for sin by our own deeds, so God Himself took on human form and suffered punishment on behalf of humans who committed sin against Him. Because Christ gave His life for sinners, God can show us His glory by being merciful and forgiving sinners who put their faith in the work of Christ, even though we don't deserve that mercy.

He showcases His glory through wrath as well - that is, wrath against evil and willingness to deliver justice. Sin is like crime against God, and He always judges against sin. God punishes evil by condemning it to Hell, and this is how He displays His power and righteous judgement.

So in order to understand God's glory completely, we need to see both mercy and wrath. If God only ever showed mercy, we would not understand that He is righteous and willing to combat evil. If He only ever showed wrath, we wouldn't understand that he is merciful and willing to forgive us when we love Him.

>Typical simplistic atheist brainlet...
You don't sound very spiritual to me. What on earth made you think that I am atheistic?
I'm not trying to destroy, I am trying to understand. Is this how you were taught to spread God's light?

If you felt it, you would know its not mental illness. Its not LITERALLY a voice, and LITERALLY a ghost or apparition.
One of the best examples is one of the few that i experienced, having this weird draw to go somewhere and speak to someone, when they need help. He sends you to speak for him and help people in some cases to minister to them in times of need, to give money to (he will ALWAYS repay you), or whatever is his will is.

You have to feel it to know what it is, its not something easily explained. Also a true believer, when baptized, will get the holy ghost.

Look I'm on Veeky Forums, I'm not one of those "turn the other cheek" pussy ass bitch Christians. I'm happy to call you a retard if I see you being one. You can accept Christ's message or not, its your life.

Nothing I said was retarded

First of all you have to know I'm a loner who's made a few life-changing bad decisions.

So one evening I watched this 3h30-long documentary called "Everything is a rich man's trick" (I tried to link it but it's been flag, you can probably google it and find it). Anyway, it answered some questions I had about life and the current (rotten) state of humanity. Like why do we keep polluting, killing, raping, bombing. Why is everything about money and not love, peace and unity.

It left me in a bad depressed state. I was sitting there in my small dark appartment and began thinking my dead dog, the bad choices I've made, the people I've hurt and thought "why bother... fuck this gay earth".

I thought about killing myself, but I eventually came here and asked for help.
Someone recommended me to look foe Yeshua, as he is the truth. Which led me to start reading christianity and holy texts. And then I felt it. I've never felt something like this before and I'm a grown man in my 30s. I felt a hot stream of water flowing through my torso... and all my negative thoughts were gone. I felt joy and started smiling alone just like that. I google'd it later and this is exactly what other people felt as well. And then I was a believer, after spending my whole life as an atheist

Your're simplistically nitpicking religion using a flawed conceptual framework to attack something that is deeper and more nuanced than you can possibly imagine. Everything you've said is retarded.

This.

I am not "religious" in the sense that I believe in some dude in the sky pulling the strings, but I am insofar as I believe the belief in religion itself is what is important. In a sense, religion is a self-fulfilling prophecy, to put it simply.

Society needs to operate with its constituents all possessing common values, such as freedom of speech, for example. Without these common values, we end up with civil wars. With the declining dominance of religion in the Western world we are now seeing the consequences. For example the left wing's central value is "equal outcome" and the right's is "individual merit", or thereabouts. These two principles oppose each other and thus we have a conflict within a single society. This is not good, in the same way as having your immune system attack your other organs is not good.

Ok, so we need common values. 1) What should they be? 2) How do we police them?

1) Stories, as seen in the bible, are merely extremely distilled meta-stories of actual accounts and real life lessons. Thus they hold immense amounts of knowledge which can be used to interpret a way of living. Albeit, the bible is not perfect, nonetheless it is still extremely dense in useful information and instruction regarding humans' relation to the material world. Yes, science is great at understanding, to put it simply, matter and its motions. But, it cannot say anything of our relation to it, which is where stories come into play. Stories have an agent, a subject, where science only has an object.

2) Should we use literal police? Should we legislate such morality, as we do today with the codification of, say diversity laws? No, because this is how tyranny arises. Law limits your freedom, and freedom should be the ultimate goal -and is for christianity, for the most part. The ideal situation is that we do not have any laws regarding how to act, but this is somewhat naive. In this case, we must try to reduce it as much as possible. Cont.

I am not. I am putting questions to people who have faith. I'm not here to discern religion. I am trying to understand the people who follow God, in any of His forms, and I am trying to understand the ways in which he is believed in
I understand well that the bible has been interpreted both literally and metaphorically. Nothing you told me was profound enough to excuse your lording over me. Your superiority is unearned

I have lost my path
>tfw you dont feel satan's burning hate anymore
>pls lucifer bless me with your wisdom

2 Cont.) Beyond the issues with legislating morality, we run into a bigger issue. Having mere humans police the law/morality means that they are "above" it, as who is going to police them? This question goes on ad absurdum and so having humans police morality is not an option. Enter: God. God, IMO, is merely an idea which REQUIRES believing in, in order for the underlying morality to work. This is where faith comes in too. You have no evidence for God existing, so why should you delude yourself into thinking so? Because the belief in "God" is what makes him real, and that first step of faith puts into motion the prophecy which such belief promises.

This leads us to sinning, heaven and hell. We now have God policing our sins, because we opted into such a belief by choice. Now, we avoid sinning, try to act in accordance with "God's will" as much as possible, and if done correctly, we have created a heaven. Otherwise, we have created a hell.

In addition to this, the rituals of christianity are psychologically beneficial. Praying is essentially meditation and goal setting put into one. It is a way of stopping the repression of what you are angry, sad, happy about and thus promotes psychological well-being. Being around others in church, and particularly singing, dancing, chanting etc. have been scientifically shown to create personal bonds, heighten generosity to in-group members and reduce anxiety. Such a reduction in anxiety, both due to rituals and due to the post-death optimism are beneficial because too much life-anxiety has contributed to the near-militant levels of ideological identification these days.

To elaborate on my views: I was brought up in a Christian household, but never believed in God. I always thought religion was the stupidest shit ever, but after looking into the psychology of it and evolving from the radical atheistic mindset, it is honestly mind blowing how such a complex psychological device was created so long ago.