Is t-nation mostly bro-science tier BS...

Depends entirely on whoever writes the articles you're reading. You could be reading an an article by guys like Bret Contreras or Brad Schoenfeld or you could be reading an article by an Tyrone Lunkhead Jr.

>you need to do a complete workout to get jacked

Woah this is news.

Anyone who does a minimalist workout for strength would be be doing OHP and pull ups.

>this is something only SS-tards do

I hate to tell you but SS has two chapters dedicated to assistance and accessory lifts.

>our bench, squat and deadlift are total shit and we look like total shit

t-nation resorted to attention grabbing meme titles for clicks.
they are buzzfeed tier

>bench
>lacking in arms

>squat
>deadlift
>lacking in abs

>deadlift
>lacking in back

Fucking listen to yourself mate

Is there any program that calls exclusively for the big 3? What's the point of this article?

Starting Strawman.

if you do those lifts with a weakness in the highlighted areas then you'll remain weak there and likely have poor form or injuries as a result if you progress far enough

for example the bench press will definitely grow your chest faster than it will grow your arms, the deadlift will definitely grow your posterior chain faster than it will grow your back, etc

accessories are important

>lacking in arms
Yes, bench works your biceps.

>deadlift
>lacking in back
wow, It hits spinal erectors and traps, missed 80% of surface area on your back

>You need to do more than the squat, bench, and deadlift.

Well duh. Based on that guy's physique, you also need to do steroids.

Assuming you meant starting strength, that program calls for more than just the big 3. Have you read the program or do you just do memes?

>>lacking in arms
>Yes, bench works your biceps.

SS includes OHP and power cleans...

great reading comprehension

And the lats, teres major, and infraspinatus.

Though the whole point is moot because even the most specific of elite powerlifting programs include assistance and accessory work. It's easy to write volumes when all you do is create and refute cheap straw man arguments.

>>squat
>>deadlift
>>lacking in abs

If you want a 6 pack you have to work rectus like a faggot. I'm a huge fan of the big three but you won't have a big rectus group unless you put in the work.

And chins. And sometimes back extensions or GHR. And any number of assistance lifts if the trainee requires them.

Starting Strawman, on the other hand, is just squat bench deadlift every day with 6000 Calories of milk.

You’re either lying, over eggagerating or misinformed.

Saying the deadlifts works the lats is even more stupid then saying bench works your core. Yea you are stabilizing your lats when preforming the lift, but it’s not at all involved in pulling up the bar. Symmetric Strength even neglizes the lats for deadlift.

It's easy to write volumes when all you do is create and refute cheap straw man arguments.

deadlifts require lat activation, stop embarrassing yourself

Keep in mind that their primary source of revenue is from ad clicks. They're supposed to make outrageous headlines to drive that traffic.

80 % of the shaft? 20 % tip foreplay?

I was assuming you were him.All I was refuting is that bench is lacking in arms and deadlift is lacking in back .

they do require lat activation, I explicitly said that. It’s not even close to a primary mover in the lift.

>you need to do more than 3 lifts for a complete physique
Wow, more breaking news at 11

I was talking more about the article than what you said. It's crappy clickbait trash based entirely on refuting some imaginary training protocol the author dislikes (or is paid to pretend to dislike). I don't disupute your claim that the lats are not a prime mover in the deadlift but they have heavy isometric involvement since the shoulder needs to stay over the bar in order for the lifter to stay balanced.

Rekt

yea I’m sure everyone agrees that the article is arguing nothing. Isometrics movements for all muscles besides core have very little impact to muscle growth.

You do need to do more. There's a thing called assistance and accessory exercises. You shouldn't neglect other body parts.

Doing 80% compound movements, 20% isolation is ideal IMO.

SS is a crap program designed for gullible teens who are just starting out and have no idea about anything and above all lack the inquiring mind to approach weights and strength in a trial and error fashion.

Rippetoe’s absurd claim that you can reasonably expect to add 30 pounds of muscle in 12 weeks is pure fantasy and his ludicrous diet advice amounting to thousands of calories a day is mind-boggling when you consider that the actual workout volume is so pathetically low that even a thai ladyboy will spit at your feet in disgust.

But the worst thing for SS to have done is to install an almighty and crippling fear of incorrect form and overtraining in impressionable minds, robbing them of any impetus to enjoy and maximise their training and to just go out there and mess around with stuff to see what works.
yes, of course you will make strength gains on ss – but so you will on any programme, even if you’re training with a pair of rusty dumbells in your bedroom. what matters is consistency and sheer foot-to-the-pedal effort and a willingness to enjoy yourself.

how's your first month of lifting bucko

Never said i didnt do them or that theyre useless, just that youre completely retarded if you think only doing 3 lifts will make you look good.

>And the lats, teres major, and infraspinatus
Statically. If thats "working" a muscle why even bother lifting? Just maximally contract the muscle you want to grow a few times and call it a day...

which 99% of the neckbeards who do the program willfully ignore

not Mark's fault, he even says "big arms are fun", but somehow this retarded cult of compounds-only incels that look like pudgy shit has arisen anyway

maybe it's Alan Thrall and Medhi's fault more than Mark's idk

That was anons point
Google strawman argument

key word is maximally buddy

SL has barbell rows for back and also recommends chinups and dips. Medhi even left a spot for curls and skullcrushers.

>sticky says to do SS
>bunch of turds shittalking SS
What the fuck am i supposed to do then, you motherfuckers?

Been doing stronglifts, actually, for two weeks. My biceps look bigger already but i feel like i'm fucking up the barbell row somehow. Any place i should read up on accessory exercises? Maybe the goddamn book itself or is it a meme?

Yes it sucks.

Everyday a beginner to the gym will ask what program he should do. Veeky Forums will usually respond with either Starting Strength or Stronglifts and order them to eat a lot.

A few months will pass and the beginner have stalled and is confused with why he’s not gaining any muscle despite putting so much weight on the bar. They say he should stick with the program, read the book, read the fucking sticky, get a lot of sleep and eat even more food and not to switch programs unless he’s reached 1/2/3/4 “intermediate” lifts. The beginner sticks with it and runs it for 1 year, while making very little progress.

Here is where the problem actually lays: Starting Strength and Stronglifts do not build muscle.

Guys on the internet, such as those on SS forums have probably left untold amounts of guys disappointed with how they've looked after 3-12 months. Meanwhile, the "bro" who goes to the gym and does volume work such as curls, bench, shoulders press and a few chin-ups and leg presses totally blows the SS "student" out of the water, getting bigger arms, shoulders, pecs and upper back without that much weight gain. Thus trashing the SS mantra of people being unable to induce significant localised hypertrophy, which skinny fat guys benefit from aesthetically.

So i should be going back to the complete isolated training and just increasing weight? What the fuck, guys.

>deadlift is bad for aesthetics meme
every time

>fear of incorrect form

Enjoy snapping your shit

Every beginner strength based routine is not designed to build muscle, but to run your noob gains to the limit, before you more onto an intermediate routine. You don't build muscle until you run out your noob gains and can't progress on a workout to workout basis, cause noob gains is just your body becoming more efficient at performing the movement. You don't get stronger, you just get better at perfoming the movement.

>a fucking backpack of muscle

I allowed myself to fall into the trap of the whole “eat big to get big” dogma, whilst doing a pathetically low volume of lifting such as that found in 3×5 programs, I do feel that others (especially very young guys who don’t know any lifters IRL) will continue to get suckered into GOMAD+SS whilst doing routines that last no longer than 20-25 minutes and just make them hate what they see in the mirror. I know I did. I was fat, injured, still had skinny arms and didn’t lift again for years until more recent times. That was once the last of my tendonosis had cleared up, haha.

Not to mention, those routines just aren’t fun. They’re billed as “simple” but most of them have some elaborate deload process built in once you plateau that you’d never remember unless you did nothing but read that program day and night.

I wouldn’t blame the likes of Mark Rippetoe for this trend (he has made numerous clarifications, and has never presented himself as other than a strength coach) but rather the army of dedicated SStards that present the program as the answer to all problems and denigrate anyone doing things differently with endless pejoratives and e-statting.

They say:

Wanna get jacked? Do SS. Wanna get aesthetic? Do SS. Wanna bodybuild? Do SS. Wanna become CEO of a Fortune 500 company? Do SS.

Only on the internet does this madness exist! Only on the internet do people think that squatting and eating a 2000 calorie surplus a day will cut bodyfat, build and sculpt your bicep peak and give you boulder shoulders.

I’ve never known or met anyone IRL who has looked well built and lean who built themselves up using a low volume, low rep, CNS wrecker of a routine. Plenty have done it with bench presses or inclines, pulldowns/pull-ups, curls, shoulder side raises, rope pushdowns and leg presses though (I would also add that diamond push-ups are awesome tricep builders, and high rep OHPs blow your shoulders).

Alright, so ive been 2 months at the newbie and 1 month at stronglifts. Should i go back to newbie or search for an intermediate training?

I do

Ohp
Dips
Deadlift
Squats
Pullups
Weighted situps

2-3x a week. 3 if I feel good. 2 if I feel fatigued.

I am actually in a-500 cal high protein diet and idk man i seem to be making gains. But i'm fat, not thin. I kept the weight while losing a size in pants already. I know newb gains are easy.
how many reps? is this your full routine? is it building muscle? how long and how have been the gains?

Back to fucking square one for my routine, fuck me. Just got back from gym.

yeah it was definitely the deadlift, in which the hamstrings and glutes are the prime movers, that gave him that back

it wasn't the fact that cailer can barbell row 500lbs for reps or do infinity pullups, it was definitely the deadlifts, yep

Have you stopped progressing on SL? If so, move onto an intermediate program like 5/3/1.

Hard to gauge because 1: weights progress 5 by 5 kgs in my gym and im not sure how to overcome that. Plus its only been a month.

>Cailer Woolam

You mean that guy that does a fuck tonne of back work on top of deadlifting?

youtube.com/watch?v=XIbxBpMYifc

>Does heavy rows
>Does heavy pull ups
>Does heavy shrugs
>HURRRR LUK DEDLAFTS BUILD BAK

>getting stronger doesn't build muscle

I do that for lifting. I also run/Sprint/jumprope

Rep ranges are all between 6-10 for 3 sets except for deadlifts. Which is 2 sets of 5

It makes my CANS strong, as well helps build muscle over the entire body. You need a nice calorie surplus though because 3x a week is very hard on your body with all the compound lifts.

You can also use for cutting. People don't like it because it's unorthodox, but it works for me. I'm a manlet, 5'7 150lbs. My max is b-225 s-355 d-345 ohp-140

breaking news
MY DICK

SS and SL are highly overrated. Guys clearly gain more muscle in Upper chest, arms and specially on shoulders after switching to high rep isolation work.
You will find a lot of imbalance if you strictly only do SS or SL. The founder of stronglifts Mehdi is a complete moron who believes his own bro science. At least Rippetoe knows something about training. But knows nothing about nutrition and bodybuilding.

It really troubles me when a bunch of guys such as *some* of those on the SS forums proud of being shockingly out of condition feel they are qualified to advise people on weight loss and body recomposition and “call out” anyone who does things a little differently and succeed, looking for evidence of their “failure”.

I don’t know if the SS partisans/internet ultras realise the implications of telling a light framed skinny-fat guy to go and get 15-20kg fatter in exchange for a < 5kg muscle gain. I'm talking blood sugar problems, further hormonal issues, etc. Most of those guys don't give a damn about bloodwork or health. Plenty of them will have ceased lifting by 40 years of age through injury.

Linear progressions take so many forms. The reason why ones like SS are so popular is that they've been created with a view to being inherently "programmable". To me, progression encompasses so many things:

– more reps
– more sets (don't go mad and jump from 2 to 10 sets per exercise next session, though!)
– better *quality* reps by feeling the muscles working more
– increased TUT per set
– same weight/reps/sets but shorter resting periods
– introducing mechanical disadvantage
– etc…

Weight on a bar is just one way to go about things and the easiest in the early weeks, even if in a caloric deficit. But it comes to an end and there's no reason to push yourself towards injury or obesity when your goal is to look better shirtless and optimise health + hormones + nutrient uptake/partitioning.

Bring your own 1.25kg and 2.5kg plates. They're pretty cheap online. I bought 0.625kg plates when I started out.

pls recommend a good bodybuilding routine
I ain't doing any shitty low volume workout

Friendly reminder that for beginners their MEV and MRV are both very low. Doing 3x5 will be enough to carry them through a bunch of progress, put tons of weight on the bar, learn form, and build more muscle in their first 6 months lifting than they will in their next 6 years.

kek

Literally just do SS, the only people who shit on SS are those who don’t try hard enough and don’t eat enough so they never actually reach a point where it gets real hard but sustainable.

Push (Chest/Triceps/Shoulders):

Flat Barbell Bench Press: 3x5
Seated (or Standing) Barbell Shoulder/Overhead Press: 3x5
Incline Barbell Bench Press: 3x5
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10-12
Rope Pushdowns (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Overhead Dumbbell Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3x10-12
Shrugs(circuit machine or dumbbells): 3x10-12

Pull (Back/Biceps):

Barbell Rows: 3x5
Lat Pulldowns with (Long Bar or V-bar) (circuit machine): 3x8-10
Seated Rows (circuit machine) - optional if already doing barbell rows: 3x8-10
Face-pulls: 3x-10-12
Barbell Bicep Curls (Alternate between close and normal grip): 4x-10-12
Choice of one other bicep exercise (typically Hammer Curls): 3x10-12

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):

Barbell Squats: 4x5-6
Leg Press (optional if already doing above squats): 3x8-10
Leg Extensions (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Hamstring Curls (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Standing Calf Raises (circuit machine): 5x10-12

I usually do either P/P/L [REST] P/P/L or P/P/L/P/P/L[Rest]

I agree.

I actually did something even lower volume (but higher frequency) than SS for my first 8 months lifting and road it to a 145 OHP, 215 bench, 365 squat and 435 deadlift at 6'2" 195lbs. A lot of people just don't understand what hard work is.

Whats a good fullbody 3x a week routine for an intermediete?

Texas method, the bridge, a HML program.

I completely fucked up doing ss/SL and didn't take it far enough/eat enough and now I'm stuck in limbo hopping around other routines while lifting shit numbers. I feel like I should either just do a PPL and resign myself to slow gains from here on out or just start over from the bottom. I'm apprehensive about the second approach because I could fall into the same trap or find out my body just isn't cut out for heavy lifting. Anyone have advice or know my pain?

Go back onto SS and run it properly. Then once you finish, move onto an intermediate program like 5/3/1 and it's variations, like Building The Monolith, or something similar.

thank you

...

>no actual powerlifters
Andrey Malanichev springs to mind, as do the really specific programs that RTS puts their clients/athletes on.
But you're correct, most powerlifting programs do have a decent amount of variation.

>.>

>squat
>deadlift
>lacking in abs
Nigga....a lot of guys want to get noticeable abs. There's no deny these two work THE CORE great, but you need more to develop the rectus.

t. squats and deadlifts work your calves

>Half of the people say SS is shit
>Half of the people say SS is "le gold standard"
I hate this board. Everytime I ask it's the same shit, i'm a total noob to bodybuilding and don't know where the fuck to start

Learn to read. The key points at the start outline why more variation is needed for maximum gains.

T- Nation has great articles, they always explain their rationale behind technique and programme advice and know their anatomy/physiology

>it wasn't the fact that cailer can barbell row 500lbs
Come on, even he doesn't call it a proper barbell row. It's explosively slamming his chest with the bar, without leg movement, but it's hardly what anybody thinks of when they say row.
They're dope as fuck, though.

It's the gold standard, but being standard is shit.

so true lmao

Nigga, you don't even squat 500 or bench 300

Same here.

Before the reddit invasion of 2016, everyone said SS was good. Now post reddit, everyone shits on it. I don't know what to believe anymore.

If you tense up your lats and pull 200 kg while tensing them everytime you lift that weight from the ground then your lats will most certainly get a workout and your lats might even be a determining factor in pulling ability.
You're talking out of your ass and symmetric strength is not the most inclusive and best way of measuring muscle activation

I don't get why people over complicate this shit.

Get your punk ass in the gym, try out different shit, and determine based on how the lifts make you feel how good they are for you. Some unconventional shit might set you on fire, but if you let other retards decide what is/is not right for you you'll never know. Just fucking lift, if it feels good it is working. Your body will let you know what to do, not some punk ass online.

People don't go to the gym to enjoy themselves, programs and all that shit is so tedious and limiting, you go in with a mindset of not achieving anything special when you have this kind of gym spirit.

I just can't imagine that somebody like that ever truly enjoys being in the gym and going to the limit

i mean, yep

...Starting Strength is for STARTING strength.

It's not broscience, ever seen what the average "intermediate-advanced" lifter looks like on /plg/ doing squat bench dead dead bench squat routines with ridiculous ammount of sets?
They all look average-mediocre in their vast majority, only the genetic elite look like the lift weights sometimes doing the big 3.
The only bodyparts that blow up on the big 3 are the legs, and that is the the truth.

The muscles that most contribute to your aesthetics are mostly undertrained or even completely untrained like biceps, lateral and rear delts, triceps(if torso dominant), lats, rhomboids, upper traps, middle traps, lower traps, calves, forearms.