Can we reclaim child character concepts from the magical-realmers and the frothing puritans who've been ruining it lately?
A whole period of a character's lifespan has been completely invalidated as a possible starting period, taking with it countless character concepts and roleplaying hooks, because two opposed sides are busy giving it a bad reputation. On one side, there's the magical realm shitters who spam the same tired animu memes over and over again, insisting that child characters have to be "cute lolis and shotas" and smash any semblance of ambience or themes in the game simply to be chaotic randumb, and on the other side we have the frothing cleave-and-smite puritans who're of the opinion that no player can want to explore a child character concept without instantly wanting to ERP an animu character.
With magic and technology at the level it is in many settings, there should be few obstacles in making a playable child character concept. It's still going to be challenging, as children are by nature immature and treated like that in society, but that's the reason one would want to play a child character - to portray how actual power interacts with immaturity and irresponsibility, without getting chaotic randumb. Many games already deal with similar themes of power in the hands of people who're too immature or unknowing of the greater powers at work in the cosmos to properly use it, but the pedo hunt in modern society combined with the frothing animu hate and fun policing on Veeky Forums has cut off a massive amount of character concepts simply because people are scared of falling in the same pitfalls as others.
Can we reclaim child character concepts from the magical-realmers and the frothing puritans who've been ruining it...
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In my opinion, child characters are hard to play and should be used sparingly and carefully, but one shouldn't dismiss them out of hand. Some people play all their male characters in their 30's as Hunter "Hones His Katana on His Stubble" Steele, but that doesn't mean that all male characters in their thirties are dreadful edgelords.
I think it's still possible to create child characters who have a good reason for being where they are, aren't sexualized or chaotic random, don't play on cuteness, and generally utilize the unique aspects of a child character (immaturity and short life experience combined with a drive to prove oneself) to positive effect, and I'd like to see everyone's best ideas for that kind of character so that someone out there might be able to play the character concepts they want without being shrilly accused of being a pedo.
Playing child characters is very difficult. Without good roleplaying skills they can easily fall into one of the extremes: goo goo ga ga retard, attention hogging moeblob, magical realm device who is too mature for her own good or psst nothing personnel kid orphan rusty dagger shanker.
I have a DM who plays exceptional children NPC, but she works with children extensively and knows a child's psyche and behavior in and out. When other people in my circle play children, they either seek out her advice or inadvertantly produce something unpalatable.
Ultimately if I'm a DM I will not permit players to play child characters. Why? Because playing a child is nothing but maluses and difficulties, both mechanically and RP-wise. Because it's very difficult to RP a realistic, non-cringeworthy child.
>With magic and technology at the level it is in many settings, there should be few obstacles in making a playable child character concept.
It's actually very hard to justify why a group of adventurers would take a child with them unless there's simply no way to accomplish their objectives without the said child or they're edgy faglords. A child with sorcerous powers(or mecha or whatever) is, at the end of the day, still just a kid. Except for batman, most heroic characters would recoil at the thought of putting a kid unnecessarily into danger.
>no player can want to explore a child
Mmm! Now we're talking.
The big problem I see is mechanically.
It is very hard for me to argue how a child will be as powerful as an early/middle adult. They will need to have their stats nerfed to avoid totally crapping on the game.
We know you're just trying to rationalize your pedo instincts, asshole. GTFO
If someone enters my group and immediately asks to play a child character, I will take that as a sign this person has no idea how to make a good impression, and immediately remove him from the group. If I trust a player, I might give them one chance.
This is the most interesting thread on Veeky Forums right now
If it's pedophilic to make a child character, is it gay to make a male character? Is a female player automatically being sexual if she makes a male character?
There's such a thing as roleplaying, and it often involves playing a character whose view on life and standing in it is far different from yours -
Oh, why do I even bother, you're just trying to stir shit.
The only qualities you get out of a child character that you couldn't get out of a character who was like 15+ are a need for Mommy and Daddy and loli fetish-bait. Otherwise you're making a character who's probably going to suck at everything (unless high amounts of special-snowflake sueshit are involved) and make the game worse for everyone involved. Don't be That Guy.
t. umblr
Should I try to put together a character who doesn't fit any of your strawman criteria? I can easily do that, and I can even pop out a few of them if you want, but in the end I know that you're just going to reply with smug anime images because you're too terrified of the magical realm bogeyman to explore a lot of character concepts out there.
No matter what I do or say, you're just going to go back to playing Strongarm McArmstrong, human fighter (two of us can strawman), but if you really want to hear what I can come up with, you're welcome.
Your opinions make you come across as the That Guy, user. Child characters are a well established trope in storytelling.
Consider the bait taken.
In storytelling, yes. In roleplaying games though... come on, is that really necessary?
Neccesary? No. Potentially fun or interesting? Yes.
Considering that roleplaying games are basically cooperative improvised storytelling by definition, then you can assume that everything that's a useful device in storytelling is so in roleplaying too unless it's actively disproven.
What's your definition of "necessary" anyway? If you want to pare it completely down to the essentials, the only things that are necessary are a generic hero, a generic ally, a generic villain and a generic bunch of supporting characters/mooks, all with only a three-word description of their race, gender and class.
It's not necessary to tell a story, but it's useful in order to tell an interesting story with interesting characters and actual plot hooks.
Or the opposite
The setting is so lighthearted that even the looming threat of death is handwaved
This is really common in cartoons and anime alike, but Hunter x Hunter immediately springs to mind
The idea that roleplaying is not a form of storytelling is absurd.
And plenty of games handle child-characters well and easily-- Cosmic Patrol has a Boy Genius as a sample character, for example, and games like WoD Innocents or Monsters and Other Childish Things are dedicated specifically to playing child characters.
If your system of choice's thrust is to simulate Gritty Realism (TM), then maybe a child character doesn't fit your game, but there are so many games dedicated to exploring other themes and genres that have no problems whatsoever running kid pcs.
Literally nothing in roleplaying games are necessary, and implying that roleplaying games aren't a form of storytelling is just wilful stupidity.
>This is really common in cartoons and anime alike, but Hunter x Hunter immediately springs to mind
i can think of a more pertinent example
Are roleplaying games really necessary?
>insisting that child characters have to be "cute lolis and shotas"
Makes sense.
No one wants to play an ugly child.
>Can we reclaim child character concepts from the magical-realmers and the frothing puritans who've been ruining it lately?
What do you mean "reclaim?" What do you mean "lately?"
>A whole period of a character's lifespan has been completely invalidated as a possible starting period, taking with it countless character concepts and roleplaying hooks, because two opposed sides are busy giving it a bad reputation.
Teej is not the entire RPG community. Stop pretending that just because we have a loud minority of idiots who force sex into everything and another that even the Japanese would find hopelessly repressed means playing a little girl in D&D was ever normal.
>A whole period of a character's lifespan has been completely invalidated as a possible starting period, taking with it countless character concepts and roleplaying hooks
You could say similar things about quadriplegics, 90 year olds, and the severely mentally ill. I'm all for trying new things but it's important to consider why no one does something before we try doing it. And in this case it's because it's a terrible fucking idea.
>that's the reason one would want to play a child character - to portray how actual power interacts with immaturity and irresponsibility
You are clearly an idiot. There's nothing to explore here, the two interact poorly. Consider how many kids can't handle the relatively meager power that comes from being rich and famous. Somehow, I don't think Macauley Caulkin would have turned out any better if he could destroy towns instead of just buy cars and blow
>Many games already deal with similar themes of power in the hands of people who're too immature
And I can't think of a single one where they don't have to be stopped from destroying the world. Your post reaks of the kind of problem player who NEEDS to be different and doesn't care how their choices impact the rest of the party or the campaign. Whats the word we use for that? Special... Snowdrift? Cornflake?
What if we're an evil party, and child endangerment just gives us that thrill of naughtiness that no massacres than replaces?
You keep saying it's a bad idea, but your very few reasons have been incredibly broad. Irresponsibility isn't solely a juvenile trait, and responsibility isn't solely an adult trait.
Having a "different" character, despite Veeky Forums's rabid hate for anything other than manly male human/dwarf dighters, isn't actually a bad thing.
>The only qualities you get out of a child character that you couldn't get out of a character who was like 15+ are a need for Mommy and Daddy and loli fetish-bait.
Last child PC I played was able to avoid enemy soldiers more than once by keeping her head down and staying quiet, coming off as a helpless kid and not worth the effort or afterlife retribution
Also she was able to fleece info out of street children who didn't trust adults, and was easily able to get into an orphanage that was thought to be a front for opium dealers.
Use yer brane
>not posting the funniest pic of best girl
Sauce?
>he doesn't know
>Last child PC I played was able to avoid enemy soldiers more than once by keeping her head down and staying quiet, coming off as a helpless kid and not worth the effort or afterlife retribution
Could've gotten the same result just by being a midget, a cripple or a senior.
>Also she was able to fleece info out of street children who didn't trust adults, and was easily able to get into an orphanage that was thought to be a front for opium dealers.
Could've bribed an NPC to do that for you.
Not him, but your post is retarded in more ways the an I can describe. Maybe the guy you replied to will explain.
But midgets and cripples are also severely weakened characters played as a fetish.
I currently am running a young elf rogue around her mid 70's. Her father was a wizard who traveled the world with her and tried to teach her magic but she didn't have the mental aptitude for it so she constantly felt like a failure to him. She joined a party of good adventurers after his passing. So she tries to prove herself as worthy of being in there party by doing rogue things that people of larger size couldn't do. Her outer self is all smiles but she secretly worries that she's useless.
>Could've gotten the same result just by being a midget, a cripple or a senior.
Rattling off substitutes isn't a good argument.
If you include "loli" in your character's description, expect a punch to the dick, otherwise I don't care much either way as long as you don't become that guy who makes nothing but cute 8 year old girls, and expect few people to take you seriously (you didn't expect the realm's best General to think much of the advice of a child, did you? He might even resent it.)
Except that the original argument was that children brought nothing to the table an adult character couldn't. Someone posted anecdotal evidence as a counterargument, to which listing alternatives is the perfect counter-counterargument.
Necessary?
Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine?
Except it isn't, because those alternatives are just as weak as a child character.
No but it's sterile and u probably like the taste.
Monobeno
People can tell midgets from children, cripples are badly gimped in combat-focused games, as are seniors.
Also, you want me to bribe a street urchin to go into an opium dealer's HQ? That would go down like hot sick, not to mention passing the buck on a plot hook
That's fine as long as you aren't making it weird by hitting on party members or wearing skimpy clothing.
Why not let someone play a catboy?
Anecdotal evidence is only weak when used against statistics and facts, but it storms over tabletop games.
A huge portion of RPGs revolves around combat (inb4 some pretentious cunt spouts drivel about his zero-combat game, I'm talking about games people actually want to play). Combat is something children are very bad at (like everything else), and it's not something it's okay to intentionally bring a child into. If a party does it, they are bad people.
Lots of games have stat alterations for character age right in the main rules.
What are some systems where I can play as an infant but still be a contributing member of the team?
>A huge portion of RPGs revolves around combat (inb4 some pretentious cunt spouts drivel about his zero-combat game, I'm talking about games people actually want to play). Combat is something women are very bad at (like everything else), and it's not something it's okay to intentionally bring a woman into. If a party does it, they are bad people.
Child soldiers aren't a new idea, and they have certain benefits IRL, like people not wanting to hurt them, and being smaller targets.
No she doesn't activley hit on party members, she blushes furiously when the paladin of the group compliments her but that's mostly because she likes that people are noticing her contributions and only slightly because she has a tiny crush on him that she'd never act on because by the time she's an adult he'll most likely have died of old age. She also has a girl crush on the wizard of the party mostly because she sees the wizard as what she could be if she could learn magic, she often makes coffee and stays up late with the wizard studying her books with her because it reminds my charcter of the time she spent with her dad. (She usually passes out on the wizards lap a couple hours into her preparing spells\studying) And as far as the clothes go she wears furs and winter clothing over her armor since we're in the North so she's basically covered head to toe when outside.
The real benefit of child soldiers is that you can turn them into ruthless killers with ease. Kids are cruel unto society and culture teaches them empathy and compassion. Get them early and you can make a true monster in human form.
There is a difference between adults going to battle, going of either their own will or an obligation to a higher power, and children being brainwashed into doing the dirty work they can get away with due to presumption of innocence.
That you could even make such an absurd analogy is why I think you are fucking baiting, you schmuck, I hate yo.
Alternatives aren't a perfect counter-argument when they aren't broken down or explained. He never explains how the 3 substitutes have the exact same results as a child fleecing adult-hating urchins, or why these substitutes matter. He never addresses what the traits of a child character are and why they don't matter, he only says they don't.
The only thing that the reply asserts well is that there are substitutes, not what or how well those substitutes can replicate. He hardly does more than assert the latter can get 'the same result' with no elaboration, when you can immediately figure that the midget sticks out, and the cripple/old man are immobile.
Infant is pushing it-- even in a system that doesn't have a mechanicfor age penalties, it runs into obvious fiction problems when you can't get around on your own.
That said, there are a couple of things you could do.
In Fate, a low-crunch option, you could have an infant character pretty easily, mechanically speaking-- your particular game's tone would have to support it, but it could be done. Give them aspects and stunts based on having ridiculous luck, and give them all social skills and very few physical skills, and fluff their diplomacy as really powerful puppy-dog eyes and their intimidate as making awful smells. It would be pretty silly, but not every game has to be serious.
For a way more crunchy option, you could go play Fantasy Craft. Pick an already small race and get Cute and Cuddly. Play a Sage, and take party buffing Cross Training options like Battle Planning or Courtier stuff. Be your team's mascot and give them an enormous number of action dice and situational bonuses based on being just so damn cute. You'd still technically have an unreasonably high movement speed and know some languages, but you can just not use them. Alternatively, to have a useful infant without being that infant yourself, get a Personal Lieutenant and stat them up to do the same buffing tricks as your sage, but make them even more youthful by throwing on the Juvenile template, giving them a low move speed, no languages, low stats, etc. You'd end up carrying around a helpless child that still shat out huge bonuses for the party around them.
Play the rugrats RPG.
>cripples are badly gimped in combat-focused games
Say that to my face and not online, motherfucker, then see what happens.
>humans don't develop free will until the hour of their 18th birthday
>no human has ever done anything out of obligation to a higher power before their 18th birthday
>adults are never brainwashed
Even if everything you insinuate was true, would that still make for an objectively terrible character?
>The big problem I see is mechanically.
not directly relevant, but there was some old homebrew game that I'm pretty sure never got off the ground where there were a couple of pairs of stats that were similar but separated between inherent and potential stats
like, the magic stats were spirit and knowledge or something like that, and spirit was just latent power whereas knowledge was learned
so older people had higher knowledge, but younger ones would have higher spirit
tl;dr: it could work conceptually in an unrealistic fantasy setting with a system regarding lifeforce as an actual inherent thing that measures a lifespan
>Can we reclaim a concept or idea?
No, you can't.
I actually once had a setting idea in which all characters are children by definition but most people told me they wouldn't want to play as children so... I guess it's not that big of a loss.
I don't see why not. I had a pretty good game just the other day, where I was playing as a 12-year-old Satyr girl in goth-loli fashion. It was surprisingly tenable, and the roleplay pretty much played itself. Quite frankly, a lot of white knight moralfags will jump on this and call it magical realming, but it was a completely serious game, with serious players, and I personally consider it proof of concept.
They are either cannon fodder or completely desperate (and still squishy).
A good role for child PC is either a spellcaster with innate magic (sorcerer or something) or a thief (about as small as a halfling and soft-handed)
That sounds cute as shit my mang, does the paladin know about ur characters crush.
Sauce?
Classic Battletech RPG.
>a lot of white knight moralfags will jump on this and call it magical realming
It's not even white knight moralfags at this point. It's just that Veeky Forums has internalized the idea that if something might possibly be someone's fetish then it's badwrongfun and makes them that guy. Even if everyone else involved is totally onboard with the idea.
I'm almost convinced it's because the vast majority of Veeky Forums has never actually played TTRPGs and are just spouting things they've seen on Veeky Forums as if they were the word of god and the absolute truth.
Fuzzy legs and hooves are awesome
I think most people have, but only as much as "tooled around in 3.PF in junior high, but never read the rules, then tried a LFG on roll20 and got the worst possible group" can be called playing ttrpgs.
Thank you.
I'm playing with decent people so having child characters is no problem at all.
My habitual roleplaying group actually have specific players in them that sit down and play to be as magical realm and absolutely fucktarded as possible. It's actually pretty fun, with liberal application of booze.
The first game we played like that was FATAL. An amish-looking friend of ours made a bugbear who raped three horses, and only three horses.
Thank you, user, you just made my day.
10/10 would put a white bow into hair and tell stories.
I love little girls with horns
that image is adorable
Yeah, after we helped the paladin with some trouble that came about from his backstory he wanted to do something for us. We all refused saying that's just what friends do, but he wasn't satisfied with this so he had a specialized wizard delve into our dreams and see what we wanted most. My character was dreaming about him proposing to mine. So the next day when we went into town he took me on a little mock date, took me to a nice restaurant, then to see a play, and then shopping. At the end of it all he told me what he did the night prior, apologized and let my character down easily promising to always be her best friend and handed her a friendship ring. She aceepted and always wears the ring and the hairband he got her on their day out.
this
magical realm only awful with strangers, when I get to play with my old highschool friends half of us go full magical realm because we're all aware of each others' degenerate fetishes and casually give each other shit over them
Fug that's overly adorable
I need someone to draw this ASAP
Speaking as the GM of the guy from before, that couldn't be more true.
Perhaps the most liberating part of roleplaying is when you can be open about what you like and dislike, why you play the game and what you've always wanted to play - and it's only a bonus when you can get off-your-tits shitfaced and indulge in it to the exclusion of logic. Actual serious roleplaying with setting-appropriate characters has its place and time, but true freedom is when you're roleplaying hideously obvious wish-fulfillment fantasies and edgemaster munchkin characters with a bunch of good friends while utterly wasted. A lot of the cleave-and-smite puritans on here could probably benefit from that, if they had actual friends and not just a loosely affiliated cluster of squamous neckbeards with mold colonies under their neck rolls.
Speaking of mold colonies, we really need the alcohol to banish all thoughts of the play location. We're talking every surface being covered with a thin film of grease, unidentified substances squirming in the fridge, the Black Milk lurking on the floor and dish towers the height of a grown man covered in rainbow-hued mold colonies so big they should have their own capital and national anthem.
I just started a game where all the PCs are about 7 year old children. We've only had a couple sessions, but despite some of them having reservations at first, they are really enjoying it. Admittedly, it is related to the pic, but there it isn't done for any fetishes. The game just sounds like an fun setting for a more casual tabletop game.
>Children going to learn magic in an ancient tower
>Teacher is shown as a wise, kind, and pwerful mage that they look up to
>Curious kids get to learn more about how magic works
>Eventually to learn about why they shouldn't use it so freely
>Meeting and interacting with other characters like a ghost, angel, priest, secret assassin who will help escort them around
>Being free to explore around the place as curious children
>Going travelling to nearby villages on quests to help people as they are "powerful mages"
>Slowly discovering that one of their guests in the tower wants to kill their teacher
>Although the teacher knows this, the PCs get to "save" him and get lots of praise for the work they did
It's just an adorable and fun time.
One PC is a shy and clumsy child with a fat pet pigeon called Cooboo. She carries it around everywhere and often has to coax it to not freak out. She often hides behind their teacher when other people are about.
Another is a scaredy cat with a sense for danger so he will walk into a room and will start crying for no reason. Also likes to hide behind the teacher robes.
Got two brave kids, with one of them so bad at controlling his magic that it leaks off of him at all times. Sometimes causes him to glow in the dark and he will learn to focus it into more of a Ki kind of power.
My god. The adorbs. They are everywhere.
Yeah, the whole party was dawwing at that scene. My character while she tries to be serious ends up the center of a bunch a cute moments such as the paladin date or falling asleep in the wizards lap on late study nights
Also the ring was a +3 protection ring which was a sweet touch
>Irresponsibility isn't solely a juvenile trait, and responsibility isn't solely an adult trait.
>to portray how actual power interacts with immaturity and irresponsibility
Please reconcile these two statements. The point of playing a child, by your own admission, is to play a child. If you're going to play a child who acts like an adult, there's point in playing a child. An adult who acts like a child, by the way, isn't any better than a child.
>Having a "different" character, despite Veeky Forums's rabid hate for anything other than manly male human/dwarf dighters, isn't actually a bad thing.
Wow, you're really kicking that strawman's ass, user! Just because there's nothing inherently wrong with unusual character concepts doesn't mean every idea for a character is worthwhile.
And you didn't address a single one of my points.
Sauce on gif?
Promotional video from Alicesoft, creator of the Rance games
>promotional
Damn, I was hoping it was an anime.
rance's qt daughteru
and the product of elf rape
>Touch horn
Over 15 years, I've been playing the same character, campaign after campaign, managing to survive until now. Started off as a 12 year old kid, and now I'm an 40 year old who's mentoring my 15 year old daughter played by another member of our group.
It's fucking great.
Child characters are simply concepts, a type of character. That's it. Any concept can be made enjoyable to the group, it is just the manner of execution and how you carry it. Banning concepts straight up without good reason is just poor GM ability and personal bias.
That said, we're all writers so we are literally always 120% fresh and interesting with our concepts and campaigns. Our GM-game is literally godlike. Perhaps the common peasant player is the problem, not the concept.
Would have been better if they all had been little girls.
This one on the other hand could really use dog legs. Furry legs look wrong if they aren't digitigrade.
be sure to ask lolis permission before touching their horns, that loli looks uncomfortable
>not bullying the loli
>gentle bullying
>not having the loli bully you
gentle bullying is nice too though as long as its followed by cuddles and treats
So adorbs! I just want to _________cuddle____ and then ___play cute games___ with her.
who wouldn't?
_________cuddling____ with a loli is the best experience you'll ever have
;_;
I see no reason for a player to choose a child over an adult for their character. For NPCs it's whatever.
What, do you guys not get to _________cuddle____ lolis on a regular basis? You poor things.
Life is suffering T_T
I would let you cuddle the loli I get to cuddle, but I think she only lets me do that. Sorry.
>who wouldn't?
> with a loli is the best experience you'll NEVER have
You are very lucky. Me and my wife are trying for a kid, both hope it's a girl. I want one because I grew up surrounded by boys and she wants to dote and play dress up with her. And yes, my wife knows I like loli, we do erp and she plays it out on those.
That's sweet. You'll have to wait until she's like 8+ for actual loli cuddles, though. Meanwhile, my loli just turned 11, so I only get a couple more years of loli cuddling until it's just platonically cuddling. Which is also fine.
have fun getting arrested with your wife when she sexes up your baby girl thinking it's what you want.