Planning a LG Necromancer for 5th ed. Urchin background. What do you guys think...

Focus less on binding the dead to serve your will and more on seeking assistance in the deceased. Remember you aren't forcing them to help you, you're giving them a chance to continue to do Good even after death; whether they seek justice against wrong-doers or to protect their living descendants. You may not be able to reach the full potential of your magical discipline; but being Good was never about taking the easy way, it's about doing what's right. You just happen to call upon the (willing) dead for support.

I recently played a character that worked as a wandering necromancer. She would travel to different villages and use magic to allow people to see their departed loved ones. And if she happened upon anyone trying to grave rob, well I'm sure if you asked them the dead would have been very happy with her using their corpses to beat up the thieves.

A great concept, totally saving

>>frequently.

this is not rules that enforces the player to be evil user.

This time in English, please?

That picture saying that "only evil casters use such spells frequently" is not a rule saying you have to be an evil character to cast animate dead.

But if you're casting animate dead at a frequency that makes taking the necromancer archetype you're going to be evil.

Default fluff in 5e Forgotten Realms is that animating undead is done by binding spirits of negative energy to the corpse. So, as said, you're pulling negative energy into the Prime.
Also, if you're even a minute late to refresh your daily spell to control an undead, it will be left to its own devices. Which are immediately killing any living thing. One small error, and your workers become murderers.

Can you back that up with a rules quote and not a fluff picture? It even says

>>The schools of magic help describe spells; THEY HAVE NO RULES OF THEIR OWN, although some rules refer to the schools.

You can be evil if you want, but you can also be good and still cast it even though it is not a good act. Alignment in 5th is more guidelines then hardcore "you can ONLY do this!" like in 3.5

I've played a necromancer whose job it was to make sure life and death were working right. Less "CLEAVE AND SMITE" kind of REMOVE UNDEAD, and more easing them back along when the cycle of life and death gets snagged on something or fucked up by some asshole kind of necromancer futzing with spirits and shit.

Bit of a back story for the character so far might help?
She was a highly imaginative girl at a young age and did very well in the towns school.
Parents were very wealthy and paid for her to get the best education they could. They were a bit worried though She had an "Imaginary" friend. She would talk to this friend in front of other people as if it were right there and often showed surprise when others claimed they couldn't see it.
The friend would often get her into trouble. She would do things considered naughty and blame this "friend".
At the age of 8 there was an enormous fire at her families house her parents were both killed. The "friend" possessed the body of her Mother and raised the corpse of her father. For reasons unknown to the girl the the "friend" protected her from the fire.
Afterwards telling her the debt was repaid before leaving. The girl hasn't seen her parents since.
It was widely believed, but unproven that the fire was started by the girl. No relatives would take her in and instead she wound up homeless and on the streets.
Having reached adulthood she works now for the city orphanage and spends all her spare time studying in the city library, trying desperately to find some clue as to what happened in her childhood.
And at last she thinks she may have a clue, she has a natrual knack for all the school of necromancy.

I can't find anything in 5th edition players hand guide that says Necromancers have to be evil, just that it might be frowned upon by society.
I used the alternate Human rules (stat increase, skill prof and a feat)
So I gave her Skilled as her starting feat to reflect her life on the streets and learning how to live, I also put a prof into Deception in the hopes that it will help me using the disguise kit in order to disguise the skeletons as normal people

A zombie retains no vestiges of its former self,
its mind devoid of thought and imagination. A
zombie left without orders simply stands in place
and rots unless something comes along that it
can kill. The magic animating a zombie imbues
it with evil, so left without purpose, it attacks any living
creature it encounters.

When skeletons encounter living creatures, the
necromantic energy that drives them compels them
to kill unless they are commanded by their masters to
refrain from doing so. They attack without mercy and
fight until destroyed, for skeletons possess little sense of
self and even less sense of self-preservation.
Also Creating undead is not good. Even if you make them do good things. Not in this context and setting.

>The schools of magic help describe spells; THEY HAVE NO RULES OF THEIR OWN, although some rules refer to the schools.
Yes, that means that necromancy spells like True Resurrection and Spare the Dying don't make you evil. Creating the undead, however, does.

Yeah I'd have the character understand that undead left to their own devices is very bad indeed (or at least have her learn it the hard way), and take massive leaps and bounds not to let that happen. I think what I am trying to do is kind of start her off was Necromancer with heart of gold. But to slowly lose that innocence as the game progresses, without her even realising it. If that makes sense?

Just get your DM to let you fluff it as mechanical servants during downtime.
Seriously, I cannon conceive of how many people are apparently buried every fucking where that a necromancer can apparently draw them out of the ground in full armor at will.
Minionmancy a shit, by the way, and the bane of any DM.
Do .
The literal meaning of necromancer is one who speaks to the dead. So actually get to that instead of getting your undead minions to drive your coach or whatever.

*cannot
Fuck the mobile site with a cactus.

>old meanings are actually the real and only meanings

For the last time, desecration of the dead is an evil act, and is perceived as such in nearly every part of the real world. The only way that you're going to play a good necromancer is if your DM gives you the OK. In short, DEPENDS ON THE SETTING.

Consistently/frequently creating undead does, doing so occasionally, while not good, isn't inherently an act of evil.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just clarifying the point

There were rules for playing a white necromancer back in 3.5 I believe, a good aligned necromancer.

Lots of autismos in this thread telling you no way but fuck them, if you have a good character concept and youve worked it out with your dm youre ready to rock.

Nothing makes you evil, it cannot "make" you evil. There is no alignment restriction in 5E, so a LG Necromancer works mechanically.

She raises corpses for her own reasons, these reasons align with altruistic values that also try to keep with the laws of the realm.

Oy vey, the mortal knows! Shut it down!

Yes, you can be an LG necromancer. No, you cannot frequently create undead and be good. Does this make sense?

If you're only creating undead occasionally, sure, but then why pick the necromancer archetype and not some other archetype whose spells more closely align with the spells you do cast frequently?

Even if you only have a small group of undead you need to recast the spell every single day to keep yourself from losing control, which seems pretty frequent to me.

>No, you cannot frequently create undead and be good. Does this make sense?

Mechanically you absolutely can. Nothing is saying you cannot.

Except for that bit in chapter 10 that says only evil casters use spells that create undead frequently. Just because you don't like it that doesn't mean it's not there.

HOWEVER, if you can convince your DM to ignore it, like was said in the very first reply, then you're fine.

Keyword is frequently. They still do it, but not as frequently as someone without mortal qualms of doing so.

Only uncontrolled undead will attack the living of it's own accord. If controlled but not given directives they will only defend against hostile creatures.

As for the Necromancer specialty for Wizards. Again, no alignment restriction. Only associations with taboos and the common perception of necromancers as evil. Necromancy is really just the study and manipulation of the energies that suffuse life.

>As for the Necromancer specialty for Wizards. Again, no alignment restriction.
Yes, because, /again/, there are quite a few necromancy spells that don't involve creating undead. These spells do not affect your alignment. Only undead creation affects your alignment.

You see this message you made!? It's ..it's .. Beautiful... Thank you LG necromancer user, you forever have my respect!

Mess* fuck auto correct.

Wrong.

Nowhere in the description of Antimate Dead or Create Undead does it say using these spells effects your alignment.

>that also try to keep with the laws of the realm.
That's not usually easy or even possible. Desecration is a big deal in most places, and directly disturbing the dead to raise them out of their final rest using energy that may or may not be evil (But is very often used for evil) is pretty well desecrating.

That's right, because it's not in their spell descriptions. It's in the chapter that explains how spellcasting works. The spellcasting chapter. In the Schools of Magic segment. Under Necromancy. Where it says that only evil casters frequently create undead. Are you daft or just being difficult?

No, i'm calling bullshit on one passage where all other information contradicts it.

What about the bodies of criminals or the guilty?

Not to mention that many religions historically believe that fucking with a corpse directly fucks with the afterlife of that person. Egyptians figured that you could literally obliterate someone from their own special afterlife if you erased every record of their name. Catholics figured that anyone who got cremated went straight to purgatory for an indefinite period of time.
Fucking with a corpse beyond its original burial/dispensation for any reason is a big no no in many religions and legal systems, and is liable to cause anger and distress from society at large and the family of the deceased in particular.

>definitive information is written in the single most obvious place
>but it doesn't count

If you don't believe me then go tweet Crawford and ask if frequent use of undead creating spells makes you evil. Or just ask your DM who has the final word anyway.

Alignment being a tendency, and not a straight-jacket, I say sure have a LG necromancer. It will be interesting to explore the how and why they use necromancy for their ends.

There are two very different trains of thought there, depending on culture and religion.
On the one hand, once they're dead, they're off to be judged or have already been judged and should be treated as normal in case they get a standard afterlife or because everyone gets the same as long as they don't get desecrated. Mortals don't get to judge such things.
On the other hand, fuck that guy and we are actually trying to ruin his afterlife because seriously, fuck him.
The second case would allow for necromancy. The first wouldn't.

>mentioning the origin of a word means you believe nonsense like that

I do what I can, lol.
I just thought I had a kinda cool story.

I don't believe you in the slightest. It would be remarkably idiotic if the only actual alignment restriction was around Necromancy, in a game that doesn't have alignment restrictions, deliberately doing away with them for more interesting alternatives.

It's isn't around Necromancy. It's around a subset of Necromancy. The subset that permanently creates evil creatures. You can throw around Contagions and Vampiric Touches with every spell slot you ever had and will have and be fine so long as you don't create undead.

That is incredibly stupid.

>No reason you have to be bad to raise corpses
True.
Good luck getting your game master to agree.

A Gamemaster that doesn't is a shit gamemaster.

Welcome to fucking D&D. If your DM decides to overrule the system that that's fine. I, personally, do, but the rules are what they are until your DM changes them.

>defining the permanent creation of evil as an evil act is incredibly stupid
You're going to have to explain that one to me.

Alignments aren't straight-jackets or barriers, they're tendencies.

If you're making undead for good reasons, then you're doing evil for good, so you are still good if your alignment is good.

>Enters thread.

Oh great, the old "good necromancer" aka, "Babies First Subversion Character".

Just ask your damn DM instead of arguing with fags on the internet.

Just close the thread, send a text/email/tweet/picture of your penis containing "Yo diggity dog, is it cool if I play a LG necromancer who helps kids using skellies and shit?" That's literally all you've ever had to do and it's what you've been told to do all thread. Now fuck off, do not report back.

Doing bad things with good intentions doesn't make you good, it makes you a person who is trying to be good, while actually being bad.

Alignments aren't straight-jackets or barriers; they're descriptive, not proscriptive.

I always thought Conjuration was the more 'evil' of the two, as most demon-summoning douchenozzles specialize in it.

Your familiar doesn't try to kill you, your pals, your family, and everyone else if you forget to refresh the spell regularly. I don't think there are any spells that only summon evil beings, either, but I might be forgetting.

Hi, I'm the OP, the guy you are arguing with isn't me, Been reading all your replies though and taking them into account.
Quick question though, what if I make her only use Animate dead as a way of retrieving corpses of lost adventures? For example, she can't carry them out of a dungeon, but she can raise them and have them walk out themselves and in return they fight for her? Once they get out she ends the spell and the corpse is returned to family for proper burial?

Depends on the setting.

>Once they get out she ends the spell and the corpse is returned to family for proper burial?
You can't just end the spell like you would other spells. You'd have to kill them, which you would probably want to refrain from doing in front of their families. On the plus side, unless you've forgotten to refresh your control they should just stand there while you chill touch it to death. If you're expecting to be payed for the retrieval of a body and don't want to damage it you can always hit it with a Gentle Repose and make your other zombies haul it around for you.

Well yeah I know you can't just end the spell, would have to command it to stand still while I did enough damage to destroy it, and would have to sort out something like what you said. Perhaps offer to perform burial rights myself, with a prof in Religion?
Expect no payment as a LG and use this as a way to make Pally see I'm not all bad?

>Also, if you're even a minute late to refresh your daily spell to control an undead, it will be left to its own devices. Which are immediately killing any living thing.

>hit snooze on your alarm
>millions are dead

Only your DM can answer that. There is precedence for priests of non-evil death gods to keep necromancers on retainer, however.

> conjuration
> not enchantment

Note how mindrapey all the sample applications of it are.

Yeah, might go with something like that, I mostly was just looking for advice on how to use Animate dead without it being for evil reasons.

>I mostly was just looking for advice on how to use Animate dead without it being for evil reasons
There's a screencap somewhere out there of a good necromancer who brings around a sort of utopia with undead working the fields and that sort of thing, so you could try to track down that, just don't go too hard on the idea before you get the all clear.

>thinking dirty thoughts in a game rated for ages 10 and up
On the flip side, the Friends cantrip has some really kinky potential.

I could swear up and down that spell that deal with demon summoning (Gate spells and the like) are conjuration. But..

It's been a gajillion years since I've played DnD, what about Enchantment is...well, geared towards evil shit?

I'd let her raise my bone, if you know what I mean.

I've always wondered why no fantasy setting uses necromancy in a modern way? It enables the creation of free workforces that requires no maintenance. I wanted to do a Eberron-ish metropolitan setting years ago, basically Shadowrun without tech, that had Necromancy as just another school of magic without any stigma to it.

You could also steal the "positive energy undead" idea from Forgotten Realms. Use positive energy to animate a corpse like an inanimate object. I think it was implied to have an imprint of the personality of the person it was too.