/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Mage is finally out edition
Previous Thread: >Mage 2e
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>Question
How do you feel about Mage 2e so far? What's your favorite part of the new core book?

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>How do you feel about Mage 2e so far?

They're still ridiculously overpowered, but I don't hate them as much as I used to.

>What's your favorite part of the new core book?

The pages where they didn't make the text unreadable by using needlessly pale fonts and irritating fonts

Personally, I've yet to find any changes I'm not overall happy with. Biggest issue I've got is that the way Legacies work now doesn't exactly quell the old issue of them implying there's a high number of high-gnosis mages, since every Gnosis 2 initiate needs a Gnosis 4+ tutor, who needs a Gnosis 6+ tutor, who needs a Gnosis 8+ tutor, unless they want to do novel attainments.
Also the lack of information about the Abyss, but I figure that'll be put out eventually/I can just work off 1e info.

My favorite part, though, is probably the Fallen Worlds section of chapter six.

Actually, you don't need a tutor to gain a Legacy Attainment, you just need one to join.

>unless they want to do novel attainments.
You need a tutor who already knows the attainment to learn an existing one, but you can make your own if you've got a Gnosis dot over the default attainment requirement.

I want to talk about Time magic some more. I appreciate the effort of the multiple Anons in the previous thread who endeavoured to make some sense of it. I think the big problem still facing us, though, is not “how it works,” but “how it plays.”

Let me try to give a hypothetical that should be fairly straightforward:

Yesterday, you and I had an argument. You pissed me off. Today, I’m still stewing over it, and I decide I’m so mad that I just want to kill you. I prepare a kill spell, and with my temporal sympathy I cast it back in time at you on the day of our argument.

Now, let’s say that in this scenario you’re a player character and I’m an NPC under your Storyteller’s control. How does this actually play out at the table?

OPTION 1.) We’re playing out the scene from yesterday, where we have our argument. You’re in the middle of going off at me when the Storyteller rolls some dice, looks up, and says, “Sorry, user. A spell comes from the future and kills you.”

OPTION 2.) We play out the scene from yesterday, and let it resolve normally. Then we fast forward to a new scene, today, where your character is browsing Veeky Forums. Suddenly, the Storyteller rolls some dice, looks up, and says, “Sorry, user. Your character was just killed in the past, so you don’t exist anymore.”

OPTION 3.) ???

Obviously, these outcomes are somewhat hyperbolically absurd. But that just highlights the issue: is there any real way to use this sort of magic at the table that will ever feel fair, fun, and/or interesting? The magic doesn’t even have to make sense as long as it plays well at the table—but a lot of Time magic simply looks like it DOESN’T. Who cares if it violates the laws of physics or causality or whatever? It seems to violate the laws of good storytelling, and that’s a problem you can’t just hand-wave away.

I have never played Awakening so I have a couple of questions.

I know there is no technocracy so who do you usually run against?

How is paradox in this version?

How do player characters compare to book NPCs? Are players just better and there only disadvantage is lack of infrastructure?

What are the main changes of magic over Ascension?

>I know there is no technocracy so who do you usually run against?

The Seers. Mages who serve a supernal ....thing called the Exarchs that may or may not be ancient Mages who ascended and decided to buttfuck the world.

>How is paradox in this version?
Hefty, but easily fixed. You roll more and more dice the more you enhance your spells beyond the basics, and the roll can do anything from cancel your effects, to taint your soul with the abyss to summon asyssal entities to eat your dog.

>How do player characters compare to book NPCs? Are players just better and there only disadvantage is lack of infrastructure?
Haven't readNPCs yet enough to know.

>What are the main changes of magic over Ascension?
Never played Ascension.

>OPTION 1.) We’re playing out the scene from yesterday, where we have our argument. You’re in the middle of going off at me when the Storyteller rolls some dice, looks up, and says, “Sorry, user. A spell comes from the future and kills you.”
Nope. There is an objective present in the WoD, so unless your ST explicitly says that a scene is happening in the past, the future hasn't happened yet, so nothing can come "from" it Time-magic wise.

>OPTION 2.) We play out the scene from yesterday, and let it resolve normally. Then we fast forward to a new scene, today, where your character is browsing Veeky Forums. Suddenly, the Storyteller rolls some dice, looks up, and says, “Sorry, user. Your character was just killed in the past, so you don’t exist anymore.”
That is how it happens, yes.

I THINK the idea is that the mage has to cast the spell on you, and then use Temporal Sympathy to affect your past self through you, but you'd still use your past self's magical defenses (or lack thereof) and stats to defend against it, and then retroactively apply it to the present self as well as possible.

Which is itself a huge ST burden. Like, say the spell doesn't kill you, it just does some lethal damage or whatever, on the same day that you went out and got into a fight. Does the ST just say "Oh, that fight would have killed you"? No, because the player would go back with "But I wouldn't have gotten into the fight if I was already that badly hurt," and then on and on and FUCKING ON until you've basically rewritten the entire timeline over one fucking spell.

Time is re-fuckin'-tarded. I wasn't expecting any magical solution, but it was clear that Dave had thought about it at least a little, so I was hoping for SOMETHING.

>I know there is no technocracy so who do you usually run against?
Generally, the Seers of the Throne, servants of the Exarchs, ascended Mages from Atlantis who broke the Celestial Ladder and let the Abyss in, who at this point are mostly just trying to prevent other people from Awakening as much as possible. Sometimes, Banishers, people who Awakened and went crazy, and believe all non-Banisher Mages to be evil. Also sometimes, Scelesti, Mages who straight up invite the Abyss into the world, and work with it to try and destroy everything.

Also the occasional Goetia, Spirit, Ghost, or whatever else.

>How is paradox in this version?
It only happens if you try to do something more powerful than you're naturally capable of, or obviously use magic in the presence of a Sleeper. When it happens, you can either contain it(Take damage) or release it(Allow it to fuck with your spell. Scelesti can also fuck with Paradox and use it to screw you over.

>How do player characters compare to book NPCs? Are players just better and there only disadvantage is lack of infrastructure?
I'm not quite sure what you mean; barring ST fuckery, you should be on the same level as another Mage who was built using the same XP as you.

>What are the main changes of magic over Ascension?
Entropy got split into Fate(Chance fuckery, mostly) and Death(Ghosts, undead, shadows, etc).

Thanks. Sounds interesting I will give it a read.

Reminder that no matter how much Dave tries to force it, gay mages will always be inferior to gay werewolves.

Hey, do you guys think an owod Mage's Avatar could get into a punmel duel with a chronicles Beast's Horror?

Cause I wamt to see that...

MAges are soft gay

Werewolves are HARD! gay

>Nope. There is an objective present in the WoD, so unless your ST explicitly says that a scene is happening in the past, the future hasn't happened yet, so nothing can come "from" it Time-magic wise.
Right, I get that. But still, it's theoretically an option the Storyteller has to play it out this way, 'cause it at least gives the player the opportunity to react to magical bullshit coming backwards in time at them. Otherwise, you're stuck with the second option, where the Storyteller effectively takes control of your character's actions.

But either way, I think we agree that it's a nightmare to try and work into a game in any meaningful way.

I feel like it's not an insignificant burden on players, either: whoever plays a Time mage has to keep in mind how any Time spell he casts affects the narrative for everyone else involved. He has the ability to undo the other players' actions, retroactively say that an entire scene the Storyteller just played out never happened, etc.—lots of stuff that could totally derail the fun of an otherwise decent chronicle.

I was already planning to be the party Acanthus in the game my group is starting soon, and I've had this on my mind ever since I read the section on Time magic.

but which is better at homoerotic arm wrestling?

>mfw all these people pirated mage

Meh, they both are inferior to butch vampires.

>Including the pirate link but not the legitimate purchase link in the OP
Come on dude.

I know other people answered your questions pretty well, but I wanted to chime in with some more details, since you're coming at this from an Ascension perspective.

>How is paradox in this version?
Paradox in Awakening is, metaphysically speaking, entirely different than in Ascensions. Awakening has no Consensus; Paradox has nothing to do with the "plausability" of your magic. Instead, Paradox represents a Mage trying to cast a spell more powerful than he understands how to control, which causes it to become tainted by the anti-reality (the Abyss) that stops most people from being able to use or even perceive magic at all.

>How do player characters compare to book NPCs? Are players just better and there only disadvantage is lack of infrastructure?
Awakening (and the CofD games in general) don't have "book NPCs." Other than a few example characters, the "higher-ups" in any given organization are left entirely up to your ST.

>What are the main changes of magic over Ascension?
Pretty hefty, especially in 2e, though many core ideas are the same, and it has about the same amount of effective flexibility in creating spells.

A lot of people who pirated the early release of mage due to the hype might still buy it, particularly when the POD is released.

Think of it as browsing the store before deciding to purchase.

Werewolves, probably
Objectively incorrect
Your Gangrel husbando ain't got shit on my Cahalith husbando

Shit
I was in a rush, sorry
drivethrurpg.com/product/181754/Mage-the-Awakening-2nd-Edition?src=slider_view

Literally just bought it a minute ago, even though I pirated it to read it early. And I'm going to buy it printed when the POD is up. So I'm afraid I don't feel guilty at all.

>Wisdom status - unchanged.

>implying there's anything wrong with that
I'm going to buy the game the moment the hardcover goes up on DriveThruRPG. What I'm not going to do is put my group's new Mage campaign on hold for several weeks until that happens.

Can an Avatar manifest itself in a dream realm a la a Horror? Cause if they can, then they can probably fight.

Pirated, and have now bought.

Yeah I treat it like I always have. I go to a store Skim through the thing if I like it I buy it. I do not like the 20 page filled with fluff "previews" Supplied by drive thru.

Completely different games. It's fanfiction.

Who are you Kevin Siembieda pirated books do not mean people will not purchase after the fact.

I wish they'd allow game sellers to choose what part of the file to preview. The first 10 pages or so tell me nothing most of the time.

After the real person fanfiction at the tail end of the last thread, I am more than OK with regular old WoD "who would win in a fight?" fanfiction.

Reminder that you need a temporal sympathy yantra to be able to use a temporal sympathetic spell at ALL, and it doesn't give any bonus on the spell.

So?

Yes, and precisely BECAUSE it doesn't grant any bonus, there's no reason not to use a symbolic sympathy yantra, which can be literally made on the spot:

>Symbolic sympathy includes indirect representations of the subject — a person’s sympathetic name, drawings, caricatures, or posed and costumed photographs.

I haven't yet seen it in play, nor done the math to determine exactly how difficult this would be, but from reading over the rules I think you guys are SEVERELY underestimating the difficulty of the kind of thing you're positing here.

Casting the kind of "past-kill" spell you're talking about here would not only need Time and Space magic at at least 2 dots, they'd be subject to HUGE penalties thanks to Temporal and Spacial sympathy (because it seems like they stack) unless the person somehow managed to get a Strong sympathetic connection with you. In which case you're boned no matter what, because a Mage with a Strong sympathetic connection to someone they want to kill has LOADS of ways to kill them.

As a Mage ST I'm not worried at all - if anything I'm looking forward to the kinds of shenanigans my players will get up to with these new Time rules. I always hated how restricting old Time was.

>How do you feel about Mage 2e so far? What's your favorite part of the new core book?
Time magic is of the Devil and Fate is mighty wicked too. Being able to ignoring Withstand on an exceptional success is pure bullshit.

I actually like the magic system, how Prime was redone, how Legacies were changed, and the existence of Sleeper merits.

Time to start putting dots in Crafts (Drawing) then I guess.

>Casting the kind of "past-kill" spell you're talking about here would not only need Time and Space magic at at least 2 dots,
Only if the mage doesn't have you in front of him. Spatial Sympathy only comes into play if he's trying to kill you in the present from across the city.

>they'd be subject to HUGE penalties thanks to Temporal and Spacial sympathy (because it seems like they stack)
Withstand ratings (which Sympathy is) never stack. You just use the highest, +1 for each other one that exists.

>unless the person somehow managed to get a Strong sympathetic connection with you. In which case you're boned no matter what, because a Mage with a Strong sympathetic connection to someone they want to kill has LOADS of ways to kill them.
The difference is, you can DO MORE about those ways to kill them, whereas the Time Mage can send his spell back to any moment where you didn't have magical defenses up, like "when you were a baby" or "before you became a Mage."

And this is setting aside that you can summon someone's past self without any Temporal Sympathy at all (Temporal Summoning 3), and presumably anything you do that past self goes back to the past with them, which has similar problems in terms of gameplay.

Temporal summoning doesn't copy back to the past, it just copies from the past.

>Meh, they both are inferior to butch vampires.
>Your Gangrel husbando ain't got shit on my Cahalith husbando
Gentlemen please, why not just split the difference and play a Dead Wolf Cahalith Gangrel? I was the one who suggested the incredibly complicated refit for the Dead Wolves that gave them members from three different Clans quite a few threads ago.

I definitely don't dislike Mage like I did back in 1e but I still really struggle with character concepts and a lot of the mechanics. Maybe it just isn't for me?

>Only if the mage doesn't have you in front of him. Spatial Sympathy only comes into play if he's trying to kill you in the present from across the city.

Okay, but why would he do that, when he could just target you with a kill spell RIGHT NOW, that wouldn't have the penalties that Temporal Sympathy gives? Plus if he's in front of you you can see what he's doing and attempt to dispel.

>Withstand ratings (which Sympathy is) never stack
Fair enough, I missed that in my first read-through.

Still, I just don't get how any of the things that you're talking about a Time mage being able to do in combat amounts to more than a mage with Forces being able to light you on fire, or a mage with a gun to just, like, shoot you until you die. It's just a different, more complicated way of killing someone.

It's funny because I'm not lacking for character concepts, but I want to run a game. Instead, I'm lacking for actual story/game concepts.
I'm also lacking for time, sort of, since I'm still running a Demon game

>Still, I just don't get how any of the things that you're talking about a Time mage being able to do in combat amounts to more than a mage with Forces being able to light you on fire
MY problem, at least, isn't that a Time Mage is especially dangerous compared to other Mages. That's certainly up for debate. What I'm actually worried about is how you're even supposed to use this stuff at the table. Storyteller characters casting spells backwards in time at the PCs, for instance, is never going to feel fair, is it? How would you even play that out at the table?

This is why I think it's a nightmare.

>Okay, but why would he do that, when he could just target you with a kill spell RIGHT NOW, that wouldn't have the penalties that Temporal Sympathy gives?
Well for one, you can't spend willpower on the behalf of your past self, and babies probably only have Stamina 1, so right off the bat there's an option that your past self has a LOWER withstand rating, even with Temporal Sympathy, than you do in the present, making the kill spell significantly easier to pull off.

>Plus if he's in front of you you can see what he's doing and attempt to dispel.
If you have Time yourself, if I'm not mistaken, but if you have Time, then killing your past self doesn't do anything anyway.

Shit dude, take all of my ideas. You want reincarnation Mysteries? You want a 1960s Dark Era? Take them, I'm not using them.

why have you not killed yourself yet

We all pirated it literally before it was available.

And, addendum, consider Time Assassination pointed at someone not the Mage:

Say a Time mage kills your parents before you ever Awakened.

You can't do anything about it, because (again, unless you have Time yourself) YOU DON'T KNOW. From your perspective, your parents were just always dead, oh well. There's no mystery to investigate and no possible way for you to know.

Another Time mage can't even tell you, because once the changes become Lasting (which they do immediately, because there's no time traveler in the Temporal Sympathy casting), it's your "real" timeline, there's no visible magic involved.

A Time mage doesn't have to kill you, he can just change your timeline so that you never moved to the city, or never joined the Free Council, or never made your best friend, all of which you have no way of even knowing is different or wrong.

Because my cats need me, and also because I'm waiting for OPP to reject my pitch first.

Did you not see my post last thread?
>Nah. I find it pretty easy. Just take a concept and go "and then they become a wizzard".
>For instance, that character idea I mentioned of an Ada Lovelace/Matrix inspired character.
>"Supernatural detective" is pretty much Mage in a nutshell to begin with, so all those Constantines and Dresdens and so on are good Mage fodder.
>You could even have a Mage inspired by other splats. I had a Mastigos who was afraid of Mind because he was a Ventrue's bitchboy. He was also inspired by Assassin's Creed and was an Interfector with a wrist blade.
>Look over the Paths/Orders and choose something that focuses on one aspect. I've mentioned that transgender Alchemist before. She was based on the way Moros are all about Change. One thing becomes another. Hammers break, hammers mend.
>She was also just based on taking a Moros stereotype and applying it to a pop culture subversion of the same stereotypes. i.e. the Perky Goth. That kind of thing works good for Mage when you give it a bit of depth (and then sand the depth away as you become Mad).
>You can also look at the Legacies and choose which one you want. There's only the one for now, but plenty of inspiration in 1e. You can also go another route and think "what Legacy could I build?" And Legacies are all about obsession and metaphor, like with Baseball. You can type "Zen and..." into Google and get some ideas of how to build a Legacy concept.
>Starting with their Mystery and what type of things you want to focus on is a good one, especially if you're creating a character just to get a feel for character creation. Focus on the aspect of the setting you like, whether it's the Astral or summoning or alchemy or something like that.
>Hell, you could make a Mage based on Mummy concepts, if you really wanted to be lame and put Mummy into all the other WoD splats.

making changes to the timeline actually does leave a traceable magickal aura.

Only until they become Lasting (which is defined as "when the time traveler dies or returns to the present," which is immediately in this case, because the time traveler already is in the present and never left).

Lasting anything isn't magical.

Think of it this way - a Time Mage can cast spells back in time, yes, but they're always casting those spells in the Present. So as an ST I'd treat Time magic on the part of ST characters the same way that I treated Space magic in 1e - it's no fun to have a Master of Space telefrag a PC either. In any game, engineering situations where an NPC can destroy a PC without the PC being able to do anything about it is a bad thing, so you just have to... not do that. Don't put an Antagonistic Master of Time in a position to get that kind of Sympathy over your PCs, give the PCs ample opportunities to prepare for such encounters, and you're fine.

I mean, when you're at the tier of play where your enemies have the ability to pull out the kind of things you're describing on the fly, your PCs are going to have an equal number of tricks up their sleeves to counter them.

Wait, what did you suggest for the Dead Wolves?
I know I suggested Gangrel with Tells and Wolfblooded Merits. Not sure how a vampire with Wolf's Meat would work...

Actually, a clan neutral Bloodline that's more of an accident seems like it would work well. Accidentally bite a Wolfblooded? You get a Dead Wolf no matter the Clan, and they can learn Blood Tenebrous.

put the cat up for adoption

Werewolves. Mages are limp-wristed skinny-armed nerds who cry when they so much as play bloody knuckles.

This picture gets more surreal every time I see it. There's just so much to hate.

So it's like the episode of Invade Zim where he kept on trying to assassinate Dib by throwing pig toys through a time portal.

...So in other words, it sounds like a really good story hook to me!

Also really, what we need here is some errata from Dave. Go chime in in the FAQ thread on the OP forums if this is worrying you that much, it's entirely possible that this is a subject that he could clarify.

At any rate, my ruling would be that changes to the timeline would still be visible to Time and other Sight even after it becomes Lasting, in the sense that the object that was affected by a Temporal spell would still have the "residue" of said spell, and that sympathy could be traced back to its source. A mage who looked at your dead parents could see the residue of the spell that killed them, and note the Time magic woven in the pattern.

I have to give major props to the Mage team to making Prime actually easy to grasp this time around. I almost want to make a Guardian Obrimos who just blows poor cultists minds in the hopes of either Awakening them or forever scaring them away from magic.

No.

>...So in other words, it sounds like a really good story hook to me!

Not for the person it's happening to, because he literally doesn't even know he's in the story.

> A mage who looked at your dead parents could see the residue of the spell that killed them, and note the Time magic woven in the pattern.
That sure is good for that Mage, but totally irrelevant to me, since a Mage would see no reason to help me in that ("just randomly helping people who might have had their timelines muddied up" is not Mage MO).

So the outcome would be something like this:
>Evil time mage kills your parents before you're born.
>You're dead, at least temporarily.
>Good time mage sees some fishy temporal resonance and investigates.
>Good time mage decides to throw a protection spell on your parents seconds before the kill spell hits.
>Parents survive, have you, you're alive and well.

The question is now, what reason does the good time mage have, because he never knew you, and may be loathe to play around with another time masters work.

Yes, well, Mages are dicks, what exactly do you want? If Mages couldn't fuck with reality at levels that kind of hurt to think about, they wouldn't be real Mages, would they?

Although I don't know about
> a Mage would see no reason to help me in that ("just randomly helping people who might have had their timelines muddied up" is not Mage MO).
I think that "this random healthy couple died mysteriously leaving behind their kid, and they were definitely killed by a spell with heavy Time components marked by a Nimbus that looks a lot like one of a local Mage I know, but subtly different... LOOKS LIKE A MYSTERY TO ME!"

the Guardians of the Veil would be particularly interested in the mage going around murdering people for no good reason.
Or, that sleeper couple could have been instrumental in some harebrained Seer plot.
Or the time mage could just be curious.

Maybe he is a Dr. Orpheus type guy just protecting people from time injustice.

>Wait, what did you suggest for the Dead Wolves?
My gimmick I came up with for them was that they were based in the Mekhet, Nossies AND Gangrel, each branch got a version of their bloodline weakness altered by the whole 'was going to be a Werewolf' thing, and the entire Bloodline-Pack got a list of Devotions as long as Serpent Pangean. (seriously, I was trying to crowbar in the idea that playing with more than one Dead Wolf Was important, but I wasn't sure how best to implement it)

That cat is adorable.

Sounds way too ridiculous.
Most are. That's why the rule the internet.

>Guardians of the Veil would be particularly interested in the mage going around murdering people for no good reason.
It's not murder if nobody actually ever died. Do the Guardians devote precious resources to just wandering around graveyards around the country looking for rapidly-fading Time auras?

>Or the time mage could just be curious.
"curious" doesn't mean he'll help. He might investigate, figure out who did it, and then just move on. He has no reason to actually UNDO the change.

That sounds suspiciously like the Pax Arcana. I like it.

>It's not murder if nobody actually ever died. Do the Guardians devote precious resources to just wandering around graveyards around the country looking for rapidly-fading Time auras?

if time magic is as much of a fuck as the thread seems to be saying, then it is absolutely certain that there's several Guardian Legacies dedicated to ensuring that temporal fuckery is kept to a minimum.
Fucking time up but good is a really irresponsible use of magic after all.

Well in my case, it does. But I'm probably not going to get around to playing this anyway.

Well, for one, the kind of time-murder you're referring to is going to be a HUGE Wisdom sin. Fucking with time to kill some innocent sleepers just to fuck with another mage? That's Wisdom 1-2 level shit even if you carefully planned your magic, because you're fucking with causality just to be a dick. So chances are that if the Guardians don't catch you for this, they'll catch you for something eventually.

So does it say anywhere how far back Time nagic can impact? The Temporal Sympathy sidebar is a complete mystery to me.

Her name is Sekhmet. Our other cat is named Paarl, after the Bloodborne boss.

>Sounds way too ridiculous.
Yeah, also the setup I had for Disciplines was a tad daft. The layout was your three Clan Disciplines+one Physical or Mental Discipline form another Clan whose blood is present in the Dead Wolves (Say Nossie+Animalism,Celerity or Resilience). My approach would have left the blood of the Dead Wolves decidedly murky.

Maybe the best approach is Clan Disciplines+Dead Wolves unique Discipline and they have a version of their Clan weakness tweaked with Werewolf bits, also the Vampires AND Werewolves hate them.

Also any advice on how to make some working Devotions for something like this? Considering my version of the layout was...bad

My advice is to use the fact that Wolfblooded Tells stick around when you become a Vampire and focus on that, instead of mimicking and complicating the 1e way of doing things. 2e makes the already great Bloodline system even better by not just making every new Bloodline have some weird new Discipline that barely fits with how Vampires work (and even when it just uses Devotions, it seems like those are handled better as well). It requires a bit more homebrewing in terms of creating things, but that really works out a lot better and creates uniquer Bloodlines.

They have Tells. They can keep purchasing Wolfblooded merits. Give them Blood Tenebrous. Claire even ported it/remade it for 2e. I didn't much like the version I saw, but it *does* work well for Werewolf Vampires. So either have them be Gangrel specifically or have them be any clan, but replace their original Clan Discipline with Protean and also get Blood Tenebrous.

Jakki, Mage character concepts are the easiest. They're just curious people. They don't need to be overly complex, that comes from progressing as a Mage. An LAPD detective who stumbled onto something supernatural but won't let it go. A conspiracy theorist who finds out that there's things far worse than the Illuminati running the government. A bartender who begins to question the exact pattern one of his customers seems to follow like clockwork.

Not if you use the Mage Translation Guide~

You obviously don't know about the ADAMANTINE ARROW. You know what they're stereotypes for other supes were in they're book? THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO KILL THEM.

You also have to consider the fact that this good Mage has a vested interest in you staying dead do to the butterfly effect. He's only ever known the altered timeline, so even though he won't be affected by undoing the time murder his friends and family might not be so lucky.

Does your pitch include force feed a bunch of trannys and mentally damaged pansexual shit down everyone's throat?

all i can think is "Supernal Sentai"

What happens if it turns out the time murder was done to save everyone from a disaster, and BAM! you have to live under the jackboot of wizard Hitler.

I waited to buy it, but I don't feel at all superior to anyone who pirated it and then made sure to buy it once they could get it legitimately.

>took muh phantasms away

Fuck you Prime

That's why it seems so strange to me that he should help out of the goodness of his heart. But I guess he could do some divinations and look into how it would affect him and his loved ones.

So now that Mage 2ed is finally out and done with, can we start the count down to Promethean 2ed?

I'm far more curious about P:tC and the other non-big 3 line's 2ed revisions.

That's actually pretty great. What does Paarl look like? No doubt he looks better than that lightning motherfucker.

>Promethean 2ed

I don't know where you think you are, but in these parts we gargle Dave's spunk exclusively.

This is Deviant Hype territory now.

Eh..Deviant sounds like shit, what little we have to go by anyways. I'll pass on that shit.

Congrats on playing the game wrong

Deviant: The Forged is where it's at

Until there's more information about which parts of Promethean are getting fixed, I'm not going to get hype. There are too many ways it can end up disappointing.

>Deviant: The Forged

Wut? When did OP indicate the full name of Deviant?

See, but all of those are just Hunter characters. The Paths are very, very cool, but I have a tough time nailing down the Paths into something playable, and a lot of the Arcana go over my head.

I'm too dumb for Mage, I think.

Paarl is also adorable.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

It didn't, though. They're Eidolons.

Perfected Forms are shit Phantasms and Eidolons are shit Animated Phantasms.

They cut everything that made them fun, interesting and worthwhile, and also got rid of self-aware Tulpas in favor of literally nothing remotely similar/

Those who awaken are those who look for answers. And then they never stop looking for answers.

More pics of your house lad.

Then put them back in your games.

Creative Thaumaturgy is a thing.

>be either a GotV or Banisher (the difference is academic, really) Obirmos
>find some random dupe
>cast Stealing Fire to make him a temporary Sleepwalker, cast Apocalypse to tive him temporary Mage Sight
>send him out into the world with instructions to kill anyone with weird symbols around them
>profit