Are the chaos gods actual entities or just names for theoretical personifications of their respective domains?

Are the chaos gods actual entities or just names for theoretical personifications of their respective domains?

The Chaos Gods as entities are purely theoretical it seems since the fluff likes to be vague about it.

Some bits say that they're individual entities that are strong enough to control vast portions of the Warp. Some others say that their respective daemons can theoretically take the name since they are all smaller aspects of the same thing.

Basically, no one knows if there's one Khorne or if there's a billion daemons that go by Khorne.

It's actually usually fairly well explained - the daemons of Chaos are usually just extensions of the Chaos Gods themselves, mininatures of their personality and power. The Chaos Gods are large bundles of powerful emotion that have become sentient. They're entities, and have gained their own personalities.

Are you retarded? They're actual entities. Khorne literally threw one of his greatest Bloodthirsters across hell until his wings ripped to shreds. Gork and Mork literally step on things when their feet are summoned.

>Are the chaos gods actual entities
Yes

I still prefer my old friend Malal

Did he? Are they? Who's to say that it's not some legend or allegory that chaos cultists made from something that happened in realspace, or that the foot of Gork/Mork isn't an effect of the sustained belief of the orks?

Because the fucking model and every single time that thirster manifested in the Materium it had broken wings.

You might as well say marine power armor is just an allegory for their faith.

>does Chaos gudz exasts?
>Narrator: Khorne sits on his throne and watches every battle.
>BUT AMS IT JUSTS AN ALLEGORY?!

But the warp is the manifestation of the emotions and beliefs of everything in realspace, right? So his broken wings could, in theory, be a reflection of all the chaos cultists and marines believing the legend.
Why are you so worked up about this?

>But the warp is the manifestation of the emotions and beliefs of everything in realspace, right?

Wrong.

You're a big dumb retard. Go be a stupid moron somewhere else.

>why does everyone on Veeky Forums get mad at me whenever I ask stupid questions then argue about the answers?

You tell me, you dipshit newfag.

Well, at least it's not a "there is an identifiable historical point at which one of the chaos gods didn't exist but I still buy the chaos dogma that says they're eternal and infinite, something something chaos something something reality" thread

This isn't Tumblr, you can't make up your own retarded interpretations of that go against fact, then expect everyone to okay with it.

Well, the denizens of the warp at least.

>The Emperor exists in the warp.
>is actively being worshipped by trillions of people, or at least heavily projected by a cult of personality like how empires typically see their dead political leaders.
>Your precious Emperor is a chaos god.

Emperor being the Chaos God of "good"/order/humanity has long been known. Living Saints are also Greater Daemons of the Emperor.

It also makes sense why the Emperor always has such a rivalry with the Chaos Gods, since Chaos Gods also have rivalries between themselves to begin with.

For that matter, what the fuck is with eldar gods? I thought only emotion powers the warp. Why isn't Zeus running around in 40k?

Wouldn't a Living Saint be more akin to a Daemon Prince of the Emperor?

I think that would be navigators. Don't their souls get straight up spliced onto the Astronomican?

Come to think of it, wouldn't Greyman Demonkiller be a Daemon Prince of the Emperor?

I personally think it's stupid. He still has a physical anchor, otherwise you'd say every pysker who ever sends an avatar through the warp or connects to it is becoming a daemon until he returns into his body.

Living Saints are obviously leaps in the human genome - they're on their way to becoming a psychic race, so sometimes sheer faith kickstarts dormant biological talents.

>Living Saints are obviously leaps in the human genome - they're on their way to becoming a psychic race, so sometimes sheer faith kickstarts dormant biological talents.

I like this theory, except it doesn't mesh perfectly with the fact that actual psykers already exist. Evolution doesn't just bypass stages like that, going from non-psyker to GLOWING PSYCHIC FLYING GOD BEING.

Well, Ynnead is more or less the Eldar trying to Psychic Voltron their souls together.

The answer is there's no real answer.

Astropaths are the ones who get their soul bound to the emperor. Navigators are mutants who can see into the warp.

Most humans are somewhere on the positive end o the pyschic scale, even if only minorly, since they're not like the Tau in that they have no connection to the Warp at all. And it makes some sense when you consider how many thousands of years its been since pyskers first developed just before the beginning of the Age of Strife, and how some planets had more pyskers than others, and how much migration and shifting about humanity has gone under, while some areas have hardly been touched for years.

I know it's kind of bullshit, but I don't like the 'The Emperor is a Chaos God!' idea. Not everything is Chaos, like how the Eldar Gods are seperate.

Astropaths are just human den den mushis.

KHAINE IS KHORNE

The Chaos gods are actual entities who have actual forms, I believe their domains are also them as a whole.

It's kind of annoying when people try to argue against things that having been established as facts by trying to say they could be propaganda or something when that clearly isn't the case. Both 40k and Fantasy have a bunch of material that is written in universe or could be said to be coming from an unreliable narrator. However the codices, army books, and such where lots of things are established do not fall into that category. They contain information relayed by an omniscient narrator.

Truthfully that could be a result of GW not really bothering with Chaos lore before the Great Crusade, off the top of my head anyway. You can probably also blame it on the person or people who didn't like the idea of the Warp having any rules to it. Priestly apparently had something akin to the science of Warp travel mapped out, but it was shot down.

He may have at one point, assuming humanity was psychically strong enough, however as his believers dwindled so possibly too did his power until the point where he may have either just disappeared or been eaten by another Warp entity.

To my knowledge the origins of the Eldar gods has never really been explained outside of something in Xenology hinting that they were originally weapons that the Old Ones had the Eldar construct and the Eldar afterwards either forgot they created them or created a system of worship around them because it was to their benefit as a species.

When people postulate that the Emperor is a Chaos god they usually mean he has possibly become some kind of Warp entity.

Personally I kind of lean towards Living Saints, miracles, etc, being shows of his power, but as with many things in 40k it's simply something that isn't really known.

Fuck off Gav Thorpe. Khorne just laid claim to him because Khaine is a war god and he wanted to destroy him. Khaine is still a separate god, representing racial bloodlust. The Eldar pantheon were all separate gods from the Chaos Gods - though I honestly doubt they were Warp entities, but more like Old One creations.

The correct terminology would just be a God. The Warp isn't exclusive to chaotic (lower-case c) deities. They just maintain the largest sharehold.
The Emperor may very well be a Warp god but there's nothing chaotic or Chaotic about him.

/Thread

The Deceiver is Cegorach is Tzeentch.
Discuss.

Slaanesh is my Waifu.
Discuss.

The idea of a lot of the gods simply being offshoots of the Chaos gods was something that seems to have been possibly part of the behind the scenes lore at some point, albeit more in Fantasy than 40k considering it was postulated in the Liber Chaotica and I believe a Chaos army book.

However at some point this idea was scrapped or just not mentioned any more and Thorpe seems to be the only one who brings it up,

It's not a bad theory to be honest, kind of plays into the grimness that pervades both 40k and Fantasy.

The Deceiver is a mortal being though.

How do the Eldar interact with Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch? I've never seen anything involving Eldar and Chaos that didn't also involve Slaanesh.

The Deceiver is just a C'tan who's having one BAD day.

>The Deceiver is a mortal being though.
>mortals
>capable of being shatter by Necronian tech and surviving for over 60 million years
K

It just bothers me when they do things like. I didn't like the Lady turning out to be an elven goddess either, even though it had always been hinted at. It just saps away some of the uniqueness from the faction.

There's one pic that features an Inquisitor holding a dead Eldar of Khorne.

Nothing with Tzeentch immediately comes to mind and the only thing with Khorne I can recall is Thorpe having a Howling Banshee making the reference that Khaine is apart of him and that both he and Slaanesh are fighting for their souls.

With Nurgle there was apparently a Craftworld that learned he is keeping Isha captive and sent some Farseers to rescue her, Nurgle turned them into trees.

Slaanesh being so intrinsic to the Eldar and having great interest to them is why he shows up so much with regards to them. You could also possibly argue that the Eldar have reached a point where they've learned to deal with Chaos and aren't vulnerable to its corruption. Something the rulebook hints humanity may also become capable of if it is allowed to complete its evolution as a psychic race.

Perhaps mortal was the wrong word, I meant he is a material being to whom the Warp is seemingly anathema, just like all C'tan.

Honestly the Lady being Lileath is more uplifting than the original lore where Bretonnia was just a buffer state for the Wood Elves. Lileath actually did some nice stuff for them in return for them basically acting has her tools at times to purge the bad shit from the world.

I still would have preferred it if she was her own goddess, or at least an a more warlike aspect of Shallya or something. It still feels like an elven gambit - I'm skeptical that she'd abandon her race so totally.

I now have mental image of an astropath going Pururururururu~ when they pick up a message travelling through the immaterium.

The Eldar call Khorne the father of Khaine. They also say that Khaine yet hates his father.

So, if the Chaos Gods are individual entities, could one of them decide to physically manifest and attack Terra? I'm assuming there are forces, such as the Emperor, in the Warp keeping them at bay, but were they to fight directly is there any number of fighters in the Imperium that could repel an attack from Khorne or Nurgle directly? Or is that just game over?

No, they are too powerful to manifest into reality. It would be like a universe trying to merge with another universe.

> It would be like a universe trying to merge with another universe.

Going by the End Times, Lileath seemed to be looking at the bigger picture and realizing that no one race alone could defeat Chaos.

There is a plot hook in the Black Legion supplement about something akin to this. Abaddon grabbed a powerful psyker from the world of Pythos and offered him to Fulgrim in return for the support of him and the Emperor's Children. There is a line about the psyker being a possible avatar for Slaanesh.

>Are the chaos gods actual entities or just names for theoretical personifications of their respective domains?
Actual entities if you go by the horus heresy books
If you go by other fluff, either both or possibly actual entities

Do the chaos gods feel as threatened by newcrons as they were by the Emperor during the Horus Heresy?

I know it's the grim darkness of the far future, and that there is only war, but why are there zero positive emotion gods? I could understand them being few, but none at all seems wierd? Where are gods of sacrifice, or honour, or mercy or empathy? You'll probably say the other gods ate them, but that doesn't stop those emotions from existing, which means new gods of good emotions would constantly be forming, right? Well where are they then?

They also said he is using a c'tan necrodermis. conflicting lore is a way of life.

It doesn't say that. It's said that shards of the Nightbringer's living metal body pierced Khaine and melted in his body infecting him with the aspect of the Reaper.

I like to think they're not really entities, more nebulous semi-sentient forces in the Warp.
All that stuff about them physically doing things?
Those are stories and manifestations.