Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>In a post Third War Azeroth, would it be pheaseable to list Stormwind and Orgrimar as "Untrusted," for one another rather than, "Enemies," based on their history of temporary cooperation?

I think so. How long was it between Warcraft 3 and WoW? Also, were the Alliance and the Horde even at war when vanilla WoW began?

>How long was it between Warcraft 3 and WoW?
4 years
>Also, were the Alliance and the Horde even at war when vanilla WoW began?
there were limited skirmishes in a few border zones, and the Kul Tiras marines attacking Durotar, but other than that it was peaceful

Vanilla and TBC were a cold war. The war turned hot during Wrath thanks to the Wrathgate Incident.

Second Question:
Should Stormwind and Darnassus be Allies, Neutral, or Untrusted? I'm thinking Neutral.

Neutral, they have absolutely no reason to care about each other

Especially since the NE are supposed to be just as strong as the Horde or the Alliance by themselves.

So are death knights undead or alive? Why are they so well preserved and unrotting compared to the other undead if they are?

They are undead but the super special snowflake method that creates them preserves their bodies from decaying

Anyone else think Frost Death Knights are just way cooler thematically then Blood or Unholy? Just the idea of an undead knight bringing the chilling cold of the north and freezing everything around him seems pretty fucking awesome.

I always thought it could be either, as I don't remember Arthas ever dying, but some others clearly did die.

all 3 specs have pretty cool themes, but frost is super fun to play

There was literally a Warcraft RPG book. I remember in college, my roomie bought it and it had classes like rune-shapers and others.

I personally like Unholy more. Tapping the necromantic powers that was iconic of the scourge. I would have loved if DK unholy spec was actually a caster minion horde spec. As it is still the closest we will ever get to a necromancer class.

>I would have loved if DK unholy spec was actually a caster minion horde spec.
they're making it that in Legion

the only spec i can get behind at all is unholy since they are fucking muscle necromancers anyway

ill be forced to go frost though during legion because its the only artifact they have that doesnt look like total ass

Demo locks are a horde caster, and unholy has some more options but still not quite the necromancer I want so bad. Merge the two and call me Ner'zhul.

Unless they completely rebuilt the class since I last saw what was done with it in the alpha 1 month ago.

Luckily we can transmog our artifact r-right? I won't be stuck with whatever plastic sword design we get shoved on us right?

Yo anyone know any studios that make miniatures that sorta fit the Warcraft art style?

i was just at target and saw some miniatures for the upcoming movie. Probably not what you're after tho. They looked like utter shite tho sadly

I think I have most of the warcraft rpg stuff on my computer.

It's really interesting to see that Blizz considers it non-canon but takes alot of inspiration from the pages. Hell, I'm pretty sure wotlk was heavily inspired by what the rpg books stated/had about northrend.

yup, we can transmog them per the rules according to your class. Sucks since most classes will be stuck with one thing or another (mostly casters)

*cough ele shammies cough cough*

Yeah, they better let people turn MH+OH into staff weapons, and god damn if fists and daggers can't transmog into other one handers I'm going to shoot up Blizzard HQ.

Yeah I was hoping maybe someone pulled a Brother Vinni and made some voodoo trolls or new world minotaurs but sadly that doesn't seem the case.

Well, Metzen actually worked pretty closely with the guys doing the RPG. A lot, but not all, of the ideas in those books are likely ideas he had or just expanded upon what was already in WoW.

All the stuff about the beliefs and practices of the Light are probably 100% canon, since Whitemane's clone mentions all the same stuff about the three virtues and interconnectedness. The part about Divine Humanism is still ingame, though it's more just vahuely referenced in the Tome of Divinity.

It's pretty clear that most of the RPG lore is pretty solid, but there's enough that isn't that it can't be taken safely as a source of canon. Not every potential plothook or suggestion for how you could make a monster from another RPG work in WoW should be canon.

There are these miniatures from the actual warcraft miniature game, but they are quite bad. Your best bet would be to convert your own. Anything but draenei isnt that hrd to come around.

Also a weird question: has anyone tried to implement on a campaign or history any of the heroes of the storm skins like in an actual alternate universe?

Tyrande securing the demonic satyr malfurion in the underground dungeons while Illidan, the archdruid lives along with high priestess Maiev . At Pandaria, the thunder king gather his pandaren troops led by Chen to a offensive against the night elfs, only to be constantly hijacked by a group of rebels led by his own niece. Thrall, having betrayed gdoomhammer and taken his armor and weapon, now receives assistance of a fel infused Gul'dan... the possibility for a campaign is interesting.

>I know the Naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters... in time.

That's an interesting perspective to place on the eternal conflict and certainly not quite what I was expecting.

its been hinted at for a long time that the naruu have a shady side to them considering when they die they turn into void gods

looks like they are just different sides of the same coin

Well, I like how the attitude almost mirrors the relationship between shadow cultists and Light worshipers.

The Cult of Forgotten Shadow doesn't really have a problem with the Light, but most Light-worshipers don't really like them at all.

>"Xal'atath has a mind of its own. Ignore its maddening whispers. Do not trust the lies it spins. Take from it what you need, but always remember that the dark presence in the blade is not your ally."
>Literally the weapon's flavor text

The Light and Void are obviously connected, and the Naaru are suspicious as fuck, but some on now. Don't put faith in the words of a literal im-going-to-fuck-your-mind artifact

>Don't put faith in the words of a literal im-going-to-fuck-your-mind artifact

im not. im putting it into the fact that naruu literally turn into void gods when they get too weak. its happened multiples times already

I always figured that there's an organization of Dark Naaru out there that serves the Void Lords. I also assume there is a Light equivalent to the Void Lords themselves.

What do we know the afterlife in the universe? Souls obviously exist, and they go to the Shadow lands after death in most cases, but what then? How does resurrection work?

Blizzard has left it vague, it seems some powerful beings like greater Loa, Ancients, and titan constructs turned Val'kyr can pull souls into specific realms/planes/dimensions, or switch them from the shadowlands to the Emerald Dream, but the rules are vague. And gods only know what happens to "consumed" souls.

>And gods only know what happens to "consumed" souls.
Well, we know what happens to ones "obliterated" by Saronite, as Sylvanas was generous enough to show us.

That was for more reasons than just the saronite. And she didn't expect true obliteration, just that her banshee form would die too.

I'm just going by the phrasing that was given.

Yeah, but it's based on 3rd edition user.

so vol'jin is pretty dead

>warchiefs are dropping like flies
>Sylvanas decides the only way to get out alive is to do what Thrall did
>steps down, gives the job and a pile of saronite to Gallywix, dresses in a bath robe, and desperately seeks out a baby daddy
>another zone is butchered for her romantic comedy arc

>tfw Warchief Gallywix builds a wall around Azeroth and makes the Legion pay for it

That's bullshit. Gallywix is actually intelligent.

He might convince Sylvanas to give him the job on greenie promise that building a wall is all he'll do though.

>Each aspect is going to be killed off eventually
Why blizz? Wasn't depowering them enough? I know they had to write them out of the story someway because they made them too powerful. But surely being mere (powerful) mortals would be enough

Well they can't kill Nozdormu at least, although we might yet get to watch him turn evil.

They've shown a corpse?

you attend his funeral and shit

We knew he'd have a funeral, but not if he'd actually be inside the casket.

"What? Our fans don't like Knaak? Let's destroy EVERYTHING he wrote just to be sure we don't forget anyone."

>"What? Our fans don't like Knaak? Let's destroy EVERYTHING he wrote just to be sure we don't forget anyone."
Vereesa is still around. I guess they have more misery in store for her though.

On a more serious note, I do hope they are not really that petty.

wats wrong with knack? its blizzard who writes lots of shit.

I guess the Horde is well and dead now. Only the Forsaken have their original racial leader.

What I don't get is that the guy is a Troll. If he was able to get back to Orgrimmar he should be able to regenerate. Or fetch a fucking healer. Hell, he even knows a death loa. How does he even manage to die?

>Vereesa is still around. I guess they have more misery in store for her though.

Seems all women sans the Banshee Waifu is destined to be an arm-attachment for men.

Remind me why we weren't allowed to kill him again.

I've only read Day of the Dragon and War of the Ancients. They weren't great books by any means, with a lot of dodgy writing, but IIRC the Aspects were a lot more tolerable than most of the other characters. DotD-Malygos was certainly more interesting than Wrath-Malygos.

They need Vereesa to give the alliance a tie to Alleria, that's the only reason she's still around I think.

It's not being petty, just being out of touch.

>romantic comedy arc
Well, she seems to enjoy her banter with Nathanos, though Nathanos isn't really bringing his A game with her.

Oh, they show him openly on a Pyre, also he fucking dies AFTER GETTING BACK TO ORG ALIVE, so much for Bonswamdi wanting him to stick around in the world.

Fucking hell Blizzard are pointlessly ramping up the drama in this expansion.

Whwre the fuck are the shamans? Or the Paladins that hang around in the War Room? It's not like resurrection isn't a real thing in this world.

Resurrection is a bit of a grey area.

They coulda spammed heals but I imagine that fell debuff on him in the throneroom is blocking heals and Wowhead's testers are jsut too dumb to mouse over it, I am hoping the Pyre is still some sort of fakeout.

>It's not being petty, just being out of touch.
It's being way too much in touch with petty people.

>he fucking dies AFTER GETTING BACK TO ORG ALIVE
From what? Guy fucking survived getting his throat slashed open by a poisoned dagger. I get that he's not outright invincible, but it's hard to believe that there's much he wouldn't recover from as long as it doesn't kill him outright.

Wow

Blizzard really, really doesn't like nice things

Or just being so out of touch they think we''re all petty.

A poison SPECIFICALLY designed to kill trolls at that, and it took him a long time to get help!

Maybe they're prepping Vol'jin to become the fourth horseman (or raptorman? what beast will nazgrim ride anyway) after Whitemane goes rouge after hearing one too many chapeau jokes.

Holy shit, I knew Vol'jin wasn't going to be Warchief anymore, but they're actually killing him off? There better be a good reason for it other than an excuse for some cheap drama.

>Vol'jin is dead
>Cairne is dead
>Thrall is LARPing as the Dude in his bathrobe

Sylvanas should be next, but she keeps getting away with everything, so Lorthemar will be removed from power next. He's a literally who too, just like Cairne, so it should be easily doable.

What leaders have the Alliance lost besides Varian? Is Bronzebeard still frozen?

Fandral
Bolvar (sort of )
Benedictus ( he was faction leader for a while)
Varian

Magni apparently came out of being diamond and became the most worthy widower in all azeroth.

Don't turn this into a balance thing, they've lost Varian, and Jaina is probably next, Magni's going to remain a diamond but break free and start walking around.

He's still a Diamond, just not stuck to the ground.

he is now a dwarf made of diamond instead of just diamond, thereby making him the most worthy of all widower.

I don't mean to turn it into a balance thing, I haven't played in a while so I don't actually know if they've lost anyone. I only know of Horde losses because they seem to be more high profile.

>Benedictus

Let me guess, another corruption case?

>Let me guess, another corruption case?
Yes, and the same happened to the guy who replaced him!

yeah, twilight father bullshit

One of the most "what?" moment in the WoW history.
There was absolutely nothing leading to that.

This meme needs to end.

They supposedly had a story written for it, but it never really got implemented.

Killing Vol'jin and Varian off seems like a really dumb move. That means Horde has gone through three warchiefs in a span of few years, and it's not like there's any good replacement available. Seems Sylvanas is going to be the next warchief, but that feels weird since the Forsaken have always been pretty distinct from rest of the Horde; more like allies of convinience than actual part of it, so her becoming the leader of all Horde races seems weird. Plus she's never cared for anybody but the Forsaken.
Varian's also gotten loads of lroe and character development, so just suddenly killing him off seems like a dumb move. Although at least he has a replacement that makes sense (Anduin, who would be the next in line of rhte throne).

The way things are going, all important faction-specific lore figures (the ones who actually do something in the lore) are either killed off or become neutral, which is somewhat odd move when they also want to up the hostilities between Alliance and Horde (it's somewhat weird that PCs from different factions are supposed to simultaneously be at each other's throats and take orders from the same guys).
I'm going to bet, based on the increased importance of the Your PC (tm), as seen in the garrisons and the class stuff in Legion (paladin PC becoming high lord of the Silver Hand, DK PC becoming leader of the Ebon Blade, and so on), a few expansions down the line they'll just make the PC the Warchief/High King.

I love blood magic in every setting I play but theme wise Unholy seems like the most DK spec of them all. Too bad blood spec has been resigned to tank duty.

desu, the way blood worked it either had to be redesigned for tanking or completely gutted. It was just too ridiculous for DPS

fuck them ruining Rune Tap though

Even more idiotic is that the one to confront him is... Thrall. Not someone else from the Church, not someone else from Stormwind, not even someone from the same faction, nothing to make the betrayal actually mean something. No, it's Thrall, who hasn't even met the guy before.

I'd guess they're gonna pretend to kill him off and he uses le moa to come back because witch doctor shadow hunter shit and stabs the shit out of sylvanas when she pulls a garrosh 2.0

So Elune is so hot that when magni communed with her it made him literally diamonds?

But there was. All the pope palpatine memes, and we know how cataclysm is the meme central.

Anduin was always more qualified to be king than Varian. The most unfortunate thing about Varian's death is that it didn't happen back in the gladiatorial arena.

Holy quads confirm it

How was Anduin ever qualified to be king?

If it was up to Anduin, the night elves wouldn't have gotten the aid they needed to defend Ashenvale (anduin was against fighting the horde there) and would have let them have Pandaria.

But why?

tell that to metzen.

> green jesus
> ruining every good plot as usual.

I don't know man, there is just something about tanking with a greatsword that does things for me.

Varian was trained to be the perfect king
Anduin is just a hippie.

How is anduin more qualified again?

Good you cant see his face, that can be a decoy.

>press F to pay respects

...