Reddit lacks the self awareness to realize crypto is a ponzi

By that logic, Wall Street and stocks are a giant ponzi too. Which, I guess they technically are.

You obviously don't know what a ponzi is

bitconnect is a ponzi because it promises 1% returns.... crypto as a whole is revolutionizing the economy, you purchase an asset at the current speculative market value, or your personal future predicted value with the knowledge that it could be worth 0 tomorrow...yes things are shilled, but you are fucking retarded

The implication is that the value will rise and you can pass it on to more people that will pay more. Nobody buys Bitcoin with the belief is does something.

You're mom is a ponzi

>at least biz admits that we are scamming people out of their hard earned shekels
yeah, I don't know about that.

its too late, professional finance is in on it, suck it ya fuckin nocoiner

And obviously all national Fiat currencies, Ponzi dindu nuffin.
>Ponzi was an Italian migrant and his buy in scam centred around postage stamps, he bugged out to Brazil after it all fell apart.

F for Ponzi

Just like in a ponzi. You buy your subscription, and have to shill it to others to profit. You buy your bitcoin, and have to shill it to others to profit

Then you are the creator of a ponzi scheme.

Yup, bitcoin is a decentralized ponzi.

They are still in denial

>OH SHIT STOCKS ARE PONZI MEIN GOTT
Dumbass, these are shares to companies that actually "PRODUCE" products. Comparing BTC to companies like Amazon lmao.

maybe so, but the whole point of ETH is that it's facilitating and streamlining new technologies. and we are buying ETH because we are speculating that those technologies and applications will come to fruition. so, it's not a ponzi. it's just a massive speculation-fest. but one that looks very positive. hence the value of ETH.

in conclusion, if you needed me to explain that to you, you're fkn retarded.

Just like in a regular ponzi, its recursively defined. That's why it is called a pyramid scheme

*deletes your wallet*

Then it literally isn't a ponzi you dumb fuck.

It's definitely something, but because it's unprecedented there's no real way to describe what's happening.

then let those technologies and applications come to fruition.

let the token price be derived from the value of the network, not how many subscribers a subreddit is gaining, or how many people are searching for how to buy ethereum

play semantics all you want. I used the word loosely as hyperbole

the point is that these people expect to make 1500% gains they can retire on, (after selling it to someone who may ultimately see no gains - diminishing returns), and then feel all good about themselves afterwards

oh yeah, i agree with that.

but just cause they're shilling, doesn't make it a ponzi.

you're complaining about Reddit being full of retards on Veeky Forums; we all know this already. they just want quick space bux.

producing a digital asset my ex wife cant take form me god your a simpleton

Bitcoin is limited supply you moron. That's the literal opposite of a ponzi.

You know a good way to think about it if you've ever played an MMORPG.

Imagine there's a boss that drops a sword for a limited time only so that in the end only 100 players will ever get that sword.

Now also imagine that sword is the best item in the game. What will happen to the value of that sword over time?

>has no argument left
>starts to play on the precise meaning of words

mETH is a cult. the blockchain technology is the decentralized currency that cannot be corrupted by any single entity. ethereum is just a promise of future technological breakthrough. an IOU. but it hasnt created anything of value. only the cryptos that began it all will still be there in the end. cults and forks will not

Bitcoin is like crack though, everyone tells themselves they will sell after X% gains, but in reality people get blinded by greed and keep hodling. Every bubble that has ever burst, including the tulip people, burst because it involved an asset that FUNDAMENTALLY depreciated.

Even subprime mortgages popped because people were buying debts that ended up not being paid. Bitcoin is essentially the singularity of bubbles, it's a positive feedback loop that has no real reason of popping. This is what people who study econ 101 but not econ 302 don't get, just because it's a bubble doesn't mean it has to pop. Gold is theoretically a bubble, most people buy it because it'll go up in value and it's real price should be around 200 USD per ounce but here it stands around 1.5k.

Yup it is like those retarded thread on reddit.
>"Thanks to bitcoin I bought a new house"
No retard, thanks to a normie more stupid than you, you bought a new house.

For an example of this, see high end art. Prices literally go up year after year for no reason other than increasing demand, yet the bubble does not pop because it has a positive feedback loop. In what world is the price of bitcoin unjustifiable but 60MM USD for a jackson pollock logical?

you're right, except people will get bored at some point and then realise they don't know wtf else to do with it than hold it

Modern art is a ponzi too, there is nothing more than hype and speculation. And it will pop don't worry

I agree with OP.

As a community cryptocurrency was so much better when it was nerds who genuinely cared about the technology and were calm and intelligent about the market at large.

In the past year it's gone to total shit. If you view this community as an outsider it just looks like a bunch of losers and housewives shilling Herbalife products or any other MLM scheme. Barely anyone understands or cares about basic economics or blockchain tech itself. Anytime I see crypto posts by media outlets on facebook it's always a few people making sensible criticisms of crypto and hundreds of angry bitcoiners who probably only bought in this year attacking them.

They always make the same arguments too. They always deflect any argument against crypto by bringing up the Fed and quantitative easing. They might have a point but two wrongs dont make a right- thats basic logic. Theres always people mentioning the Rothschilds in some way- the mark of idiots who think theyre more intelligent than they actually are.

At least Veeky Forums is semi ironic about it and you can usually find much more knowledgeable people here compared to the rest of the crypto market.

fucking kek

A ponzi scheme promises returns. When the number of new users required to sustain the scheme is not enough it always collapses. Crypto excluding Bitcconnect is an asset. It does not promise a return therefore it is not a ponzi scheme. What is occurring is the majority are buying cryptos with the expectation that it will rise in price and then sell it for profit to the next person who is doing the same. With little selling pressure more and more people start buying at whatever price they can get. As the price quickly rises more people are enticed to buy while those who already bought become ever more reluctant to sell. This creates a feedback loop with more buying and little selling. Eventually new buyers are not enough to sustain the momentum. At this point the market is heavy net long, lots of hodlers, who are yet to sell. Once the selling starts it creates a feedback loop in the other direction: hodler sells which cause another holder to sell and so on. Since the market is heavy net long there are few buyers to counter the immense selling and the price crashes. That's a speculative bubble.

A ponzi promise return only if the new member enrolls himself new members into the scheme. Just like bitcoin. Educate ya self

>Just like bitcoin
Bitcoin doesn't promise a return you dumbfuck.

I agree they are some sort of delusional cult
most of them missed BTC train and don't technically understand what they are holding

Also another hilarious contradiction that you see all the time in the past year is people boasting about decentralization and the fact that crypto is unregulated- " were finally taking back our money into our own pockets, away from the banks and the financial mafia". They will say this and then have no hesitation in calling for lawsuits, regulation and state enforced legislation when their account inevitably gets hacked and wiped or their exchange exit scams. You cant have it both ways.

Keep telling yourself that. There is no actual limitation to the greater fool theory. Every bubble has popped due to a fundamental characteristic of the given item failing.

>revolutionary
for a very very niche type of systems. not everything needs to be in a blockchain or in a smart contract, dunno why people think everything should be in a blockchain

Yes it does. Let's take a simpler case, because bitcoin is a ponzi on a global scale. You could have someone creating a crypto, PonziCoin, where it says : Buy this PonziCoin, and I assure you you will be able to sell it at a higher price if you can convince 2 people to buy PonziCoin too. Well this is what happens with bitcoin, but there is no guru to tell you how it works, and if another dude brings 4 friends and you 0 you still profit.

tldr: Investing in bitcoin promises return only if you can find other people to invest in (definition of a ponzi)

it's not exactly the right term, but it has the same sense of maliciousness and there isn't anything else that fully describes exactly what's going on.
with bubbles people generally buy in because they somehow see the value of what they're trading shooting up for legitimate reasons. with crypto, especially the smaller ones, people are financially encouraged to bring more people into the market to bring the price up.

...

I think it's just a speculative zero-sum game. Futures are a zero sum game. Somebody is shorting, somebody is going long. There is a loser in every contract. There isn't a loser in every bitcoin transaction, at least not directly. There is a loser at the end of every transaction. Somewhere a bagholder is paying for everyone's profits.

> posts a graphic explaining what a Ponzi scheme is
> doesn't get that crypto is not a Ponzi scheme

You can say crypto is a bubble, it's overhyped and unproven, but you can't say it's a Ponzi scheme. You buy an asset and it appreciates (or not) in value. You can say it's overinflated, but it's not just transferring early investor money to later investors, so it's not a Ponzi.

Money isn't debt free by nature. It's a debt obligation, we had this discussion over here

>MUH PONZY SCHEME MUH PONZY SCHEME
youre already in one: the US Dollar

naw forking already took care of that, shows you can make value out of thin air, which is the cayse of hyper inflation but
>muh deflationary currency

cant calculate the madness of markets

The simplest explanation of the economy I've come across if you feel like being brain washed by the fed or whatever.
youtube.com/watch?v=jAg1YxW30Eg

I know my example is different because Bitcoin is king r/bitcoin was same in 2013 way as ethtrader is now.

In a ponzi scheme you are guaranteed a return if you recruit new members that is before the system collapses. With crypto there is no guarantee even if you recruit new members because you have no control of other stake holders from selling.

Crypto is in a speculative bubble. They do share similarities since they both require new buyers to continue but if nobody sold once there were no new buyers the bubble would not pop. An increase in selling would also stop the bubble from forming even with new recruits. In a ponzi the system will collapse if new recruits are not found it also can not mechanically stop from being a ponzi scheme where in a speculative bubble can stop from forming.

Wtf did I just have a stroke? That should say,

>I know my example is different because Bitcoin is King but in 2013 r/bitcoin looked like how ethtrader does right now and those guys were absolutely right about everything.

I bought eth because I expect ethereum to be the legal system of the world time will tell but I'm still convinced it will be.

/thread

Now get the fuck out no coiner boomer.

good example but explain how BTC is the best item in the game?

Except that gold has a real use case- it's a rarity and demand will never fall.

Bitcoin's only use case is money laundering and buying fucked up experimental drugs.

Before 2013, Bitcoin proponents argued it was a currency. When it became clear it's deflationary and volatile nature coupled with its complexity made it useless as a currency, they now argue it's a "store of value".

This is a stupid argument for the reasons I said above.

>Gold has a real use case
>demand will never fall

Literally the only thing gold has going for it is history and consensus, bitcoin will have that in time. As for the limited industrial applications, those can all be done better by cheaper metals. Just accept that golds value is literally only because of demand and literal supply, the same exact fundamentals as bitcoin. Does gold have the psychological advantage of being a physical good? Yes. But change is the only constant, people will evolve, in time BTC will be seen as the 'safest' invesment possible with extremely low returns (think 100k to 101k in a year).

People putting everything on the blockchain is a fucking scam and will one day fall

However a digital currency is not a concept that will go away. It's a great concept and one day one may make it far enough to be considered a universal currency across the world

USD is largely digital as it is.

Still a currency controlled by a single government which can print more whenever they want

As I said, Gold has real use cases- electronics production, jewelry, medicine etc.

Bitcoin has none of these, it's only significant use is in illegal transactions and crime. The only thing driving Bitcoin's value up is a ton of people expecting to get rich quick. There is nothing backing it- no production, no earnings report, no applications.

In order for it to be a proper store of value it's necessary to have some form of inherent value, not just a market guided by greater fool theory.

>Gold has real use cases- electronics production, jewelry, medicine etc.

Its industrial uses hardly justify how high of a price gold goes for. Also Bitcoin's (or any cryptocurrency in general's) 'value' could be considered its technology. It's the reason that I don't think BTC will make it in the long-run, but one crypto will

The fact that it has these applications decreases the possibility of it being in a speculative bubble dramatically.

If Bitcoin had some use cases it would also reduce the likelihood that it was massively overvalued. Since it doesn't, it looks like an enormous bubble at the moment.

I agree with your second point though, the blockchain technology itself is ground-breaking and there will definitely be cryptocurrencies which will grow for years or even decades.

I just don't think Bitcoin will last, the only thing driving it is first mover's advantage and lots and lots of dumb money.

>Reddit lacks the self awareness to realize crypto is a ponzi

Dude it doesn't matter. What matters is if you have balls to put a trade on.

>I just don't think Bitcoin will last, the only thing driving it is first mover's advantage and lots and lots of dumb money.

That's something we can definitely agree on. It'll be exciting to try and find genuinely good currencies that could have relevant use in the real world

The real reason cryptos are valuable aren't because they're going to substitute currency or any shit like that. They won't. The reason they are valuable is because they enable nerds like me to feel like Jordan Belfort while sitting with a thumb up my ass, since they're much easier to invest to than stocks.

*Your

"You are mom" is a ponzi

>your mom's pussy is a pump and dump

I don't see the issue desu.

this user gets it. money masters, amirite?

your triggered nazi grammer fag

Gold and all rare earth have actual industrial uses. Bitcoin has a circle jerk of libertarians.

>your triggered nazi grammer fag

too stupid for internet

>demand will never fall

are you fucking autistic?

it's literally in demand solely because of its rarity

Buy ripple!

I thoroughly enjoyed this conversational exchange and would like to watch a hentai of the two of you one day please.

Me on the left.

Bottom left.

Well stocks are actually shares of a company, and the companies actually have employees that do actual work to build products and sell them to customers.

WTF are blockchain companies? They have 2 people total (COUGH LOOKING AT YOU CHAINLINK), usually have no product (except vaporware, COUGH LIGHTNING NETWORK), and are valued at hundreds of millions of dollars or more.

BTC and other coins DOES often feel like a ponzi scheme, and this is from someone who came in in 2013 (ME).

Agreed that BTC might not be the **best** item there is but it’s certainly up there. But then again, what IS the best item? We won’t know until one of them reaches the point of being as regularly as fiat currency, which I don’t think is yet the case with BTC.

*COUGH* "Our mission is to help Bitcoin Cash serve one billion users within five years." - thebitcoincash.fund/

They’re not backed by literal assets– they are backed however by an unseen ability to purchase shit anonymously (and more, only been taking a look off and on at crypto for a month now).

>You see posts about guys who bought eth at 3 bucks

I wish id listened to those fukers at the start of the year. I trade fx for a living. A mate of mine, a big fx trader, said hes just bought £10000's worth of ripple on the recommendation of twitter.com/_db______

In my discord we are all pulling wedge from fx. We are known as individual on twatter etc. We do big months, this past one has made my year on GBP crosses.

Belle reckons XRP is a buy and hold. Looks promising, but are they really going to have their transaction rate utilised by the big boys or is STRAT a better buy. I think STRAT is, i have no XRP yet. Still open to buying it, but there is a mix bag on the news front with them.

A better example would be a RS party hat.
Something that was given out for free years ago ended up being worth more than any new player could come by honestly.
It has no reason to drop in price unless people want to get rid of theirs and people won't pay a huge price.

Get into ripple, it's amazing, The pool is huge, jump in.

That would mean if satoshi cashed out all his bitcoin. Even then the price could just recover and bitcoin is not dead. People who buy this know it can drop 50% in a week. Which, if he would he'd probably had done when the price was 1000$ in the beginning. And i don't think he wants to scan his id card to send to an exchange.

People know they will lose money gambling, yet they gamble.

It's not a ponzi

God bless you all.

Nobody wants to invest in your meme coin. Jk I have some

>People know they will lose money gambling, yet they gamble.

Right, but is that a personal justification for watching the world go by and make money on this? There is still room to buy. I think BTC is heading to 500k. The only thing that matters is the integrity of the exchanges. If they fail then its fuckery.

>I think BTC is heading to 500k.
Me too, friend, me too

Not necessarily, there is one difference between usual ponzis and bitcoin, and that is that the price of bitcoin increases not only with new adopters but also when existing adopters have transactions on the network (because there are costs involved).

So whereas in a regular ponzi you need new money AND ONLY NEW MONEY to keep the price, in bitcoin you need either new money OR more transactions. Because the number of coins is limited, if you have 10 coins and you want to do 20 transactions then the coin is cheap, but if you have 10 coins and there are 100 transactions to be done, then there will be scarcity and coins will appreciate in value.

This is the only thing making Bitcoin not a scam, the hope that it will actually be accepted as a means of exchange and people will start accepting it for other products and services. That's why the Bitcoin holders need to promote the shit out of bitcoin if they want the price to continue rising

>That's why the Bitcoin holders need to promote the shit out of bitcoin if they want the price to continue rising

But Bitcoin's a piece of shit. We should promote good alternatives to it to hopefully become accepted and mainstream