OSR - "what are you creating?" edition

Is FASERIP an OSR system?

No. Only pre-2E D&D derivatives are OSR systems.

Sounds neat, although I thought the LotFP base AC was 12, not below (I presume 10?).

Prehaps you could also balance it with Dex AC bonus, with plate the higher tier armour not benifiting from it. I would presume it is harder to dodge an enemy in full plate than in a gambeson.

Question: where should I go for 2e discussion? Do we do that here?

He's full of shit, you can talk about 2e here. 2e is MORE in line with OSR than 1e is.

Yeah, here's fine. One of the first retroclones was OSRIC, and it's a 2e clone.

What's up?

I fucking hate 2E, but it +is+ OSR even though it had the shittiest art and boringest everything else.

>2e is MORE in line with OSR than 1e is.
>One of the first retroclones was OSRIC, and it's a 2e clone.
kek

Both these claims are nonsensical. Shame about /osrg/, we used to have a nice crowd and not shitposters here.

Have you looked at the modern armor in the rulebook?? Seems like you are redoing what Raggi already did here. (this is the new rulebook,not the grindhouse version)

OSRIC is a 1e clone. There are no real clones of 2e, mostly because there don't need to be.

Fair. I liked that it was boring at its core, though, because you could pile whatever else on top without breaking anything. Same reason I like Labyrinth Lord (and OSR in general).

Think of being a kid and being exposed to FASERIP after D&D and Gamma World (there wasn't much else around). I was this kid, and it was fucking INSANE. I think it is a totally, completely different type of game than anything that had come before, and should not be included in a definition of OSR. Good, bad or fugly, it's something else entire.

yeah, I can't look at it objectively as a system as I went as a boy from Holmes to Moldvay to AD&D and all it's brutality to ... ANYTHING other than 2E and it's fucking draconic lameness (which was TMNT, paranoia, WFRP, Cthulhu). It's genericfantasyness is what I defined all other games against.

Although worth noting that there are two retroclones of MSH available (FASERIP and Four Colors)

Totally understandable. There's a flavor for everyone. I cut my homebrew teeth on 2e's modularity, though, and saw a lot of value in that design approach.

Can I get some input/feedback on my gonzo microdungeon for LotFP?

I used bits from Green Devil Face #5, Dungeon Alphabet and random ideas.

I've been toying with the idea for a point buy style system for Magic-User spells for Basic/Moldvay, and what it might look like. Have any of you ever read of or made a system like this of their own?

Describe what you mean.

At character creation and level up you have a number of spell buying Resource Points. Certain spells costs more, like equipment in a store. Magic Missile would cost more Resource Points than Floating Disc, but less than Sleep, for example.

Sounds like you're unnecessarily tiering spells and introducing granularity, honestly. You can manage all of that on the backend by tweaking monster saves.

I really like the traps and the treasure, it really gives off a cool gonzo vibe. I think that the encounters are a bit too forgiving though for all the cool stuff that can be found. Shouldn't the adventuring parties and the locust savage have a bit more hit dice? Or maybe this is like a funnel adventure?

Some other stuff I thought about while reading:

In room 5, skeletal remains should also hang from the low ceiling. Something spooky should happen when you go through it, like the skeletons gently touching the adventurers or something actually dangerous.

In room 6, maybe some skeletal remains should be stuck to the wall, to telegraph danger and explain all the weapons n stuff lying around?

ok i read it and quite liked the idea but the fist problem i see is : the first room should not be the first room cause it will block the pc in the first room by proposing a problem without solution ... and they surely did not leave behind a fellow player in the first fucking room
the room 6 is nasty but you should add that the pc have the possibility to sever the limb glued to the wall (if it's can be done)

That's a fair point. I do mean for this to also allow characters to have multiple spells of a particular level. The inspiration from this came from looking at Burning Wheels spells system a bit.

Just do it the way 2e does.

"The one good thing that comes from your character's studies is his initial spell book. It may have been a gift from his school or he may have stolen it from his hated master. Whatever the case, your character begins play with a spell book containing up to a few 1st-level spells. Your DM will tell you the exact number of spells and which spells they are. As your character adventures, he will have the opportunity to add more spells to his collection."

I've discussed this concept multiple times (but a bit better) with my magical loadout system. Let players trade their levels of MU, or spells per day or points or spell slots or whatever you want to do, for things like minions, magic items made in their workshop, bonuses to saves and so on. The Fearsome Gods game system uses it quite well.

Thanks for the feedback! I based the Locust Savage's stats off the spider in Stargazer. I figured if its deadly enough there, it would be here as well. The odds of the second party coming to combat are slim, and was included less as a fight and more as a bizarre encounter (that can potentially lead to help/dead pc replacement character etc). You pointing out there being no remains in 6 made me realize I didn't write that the wall absorbs the player over a certain amount of time. Oops!

Room 1 is meant to be incredibly deadly. Convincing the second party to attempt retrieval is an option. Also the severing of limbs in 6 is absolutely a solution, but is up to player ingenuity to try.

it give me a "heavy metal" feel
i will use it as a heavy metal one shot

cool! Here's a slightly updated, finalized version.

cool! Here's a slightly updated, finalized version.

Isn't Gamma World 3e related to FASERIP?

>There are no real clones of 2e
There is one. I don't think there's more than one, but there is one.

whoops. typos. last one, sorry.

forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?704733-B-X-My-further-magic-and-MU-tweaks

Bamp

...

I'd love to see the end product user. Thanks for mentioning Last Gasp Grimoire-- checking that site out for the first time.

Yeah, Grimore is an absolute goldmine, particularly for citycrawling and magic class design.

I tend to be pretty flakey when designing stuff, with most never reaching the players, but this project has lasted way longer than most and I haven't run out of steam so outlook is good it might be complete one day.

On a tangential note, how do you do hit points /osrg/? Rules as written? Abstract points? Grit vs Flesh?

>On a tangential note, how do you do hit points /osrg/? Rules as written? Abstract points? Grit vs Flesh?

RAW.
I don't see any significant benefit to dividing hits into two separate pools. The combat in the game is heavily abstracted as it is. One die roll isn't meant to represent just one strike, and HP are supposed to be a combination of stamina, luck, and avoidance of killing blows, with death coming in the final hit at 0 HP.

There isn't much to be gained from splitting them, as long as you already describe combats in the way the system is supposed to be described. It just makes another thing players have to keep track of, for no real reason.

What about using the split pools, with damage to the Flesh pool triggering things like permanent injuries or resolve checks? Or having them regenerated by different things - simple rest can restore Grit, however medical attention is required for Flesh.

I also find it makes the whole abstracted nature of HP more palpable - there is a real, tangible tipping point where the players know the screws have really been turned on them, building a kind of growing tension in protracted battles.

bloodofprokopius.blogspot.com/2012/12/ye-auld-skool-spell-creator.html

How do I handle a situation where a player sends a dog or henchman into every fucking room to see if it's trapped?

>with damage to the Flesh pool triggering things like permanent injuries or resolve checks

That's basically a Death Spiral. They're generally un-fun shit that leads to frustration.

>I also find it makes the whole abstracted nature of HP more palpable - there is a real, tangible tipping point where the players know the screws have really been turned on them, building a kind of growing tension in protracted battles.

Know what else lets players know the screws have been put to them? Losing HP.

And I don't like protracted battles. I run a gritty game. Battles are messy, chaotic and blurry, and death comes fast and easy.

I think if you like super heroic blade poetry you should just play 3.P or something. They're much more suited to that schlock.

Traps only go off on a 2-in-6 at most. That's how OD&D handled it.

So roll the dice, if nothing happens, the dog or henchman didn't trigger the trap (either they don't weigh enough or didn't step on the particular cobblestone that sets it off). Just roll in secret for each person who passes through the area. When you roll a 1 or 2, trap goes off.

Also, make traps that can only be interacted with by humans. Think the golden idol in Indiana Jones.
If he tries to make his henchmen grab it, roll the henchmen's Loyalty, or just have the henchmen tell him to go fuck himself. Henchmen are risk takers but they aren't suicidal.

Just make your world a bit more alive. Player actions have consequences. Word begins to circulate that this so-called adventurer is always hiring new laborers, none of which are ever seen again. The rumor gets the attention of the captain of the nearby city guard who launches an inquest against said player character.

Protracted battles as in pursuits or defences rather than skirmishing, not 'super heroic blade poetry'. The whole grit system shows fatigue building up, players being worn down, diminishing their ability to fight. I will admit to utilising a certain degree of higher-than-usual player survival for thematic reasons, but fights are still far more bloody and lethal than 3.P.

>And I don't like protracted battles. I run a gritty game. Battles are messy, chaotic and blurry, and death comes fast and easy.

>That's basically a Death Spiral. They're generally un-fun shit that leads to frustration.

Surely a death spiral mechanic IS the way to create messy and lethal combats, a crack in the line resulting in a rapid escalation in lethality. I honesty can't see how you reconcile considering death un-fun and liking high lethality, unless I misunderstood something.

>Know what else lets players know the screws have been put to them? Losing HP.

I would agree with this, only once the players lose their HP and things get intense they are already, well, out of HP. Combat isn't as interesting if you spend it bleeding out on the floor.

I like the shift as things move into flesh as you can really get a feel for how the players get desperate. Those abstract points, that counter, it means something infinitely more visceral now and they know it. Mixing actual damage with an abstraction dilutes both.

Going to DM for four new players. They're somewhat apprehensive about RPGs and want pregen characters.

Thinking of running Labyrinth Lord for them, no advanced edition or anything, giving them a fighter, a thief, a magic user, and a cleric, and doing module B2.

One of them really wants to do minis on a map. Should I just get out some minis and a dry erase board and draw the room when combat happens?

Yeah just let them try it. My noob players were dead set on minis, then totally abandoned them by session 3 because they saw how much it slowed the game down. YMMV.

For Gold & Glory is a 2e Clone.

I don't find death unfun, I find Death Spirals are unfun for the players. Death is quick. When it happens it is over quickly and the player can begin moving on, thinking of a new character, get up from the table to go get a snack, maybe start rolling some stats. The pain is brief and they can deal with it quickly.

Death spirals on the other hand are a long protracted scene which often end up in the character dying anyway, but instead of ripping the band-aid off all at once, it's a slow agonizing torture for the player as they angst over the Will He/Won't He of whether their character will survive. And they often won't because of the very nature of the spiral.

HP are the only thing I need to make my players anuses pucker with fear for their characters. I don't see any reason to heap penalties onto them for engaging in fights. Fights are already a bad situation to be in in OD&D.

While I could argue that its cool to have a character retain the physical and mental scars of a fight gone wrong, I can see what you mean about it being unnecessarily drawn-out.

I think that what side of the fence you come down on depends on many second chances you want to give players, which in turn depends on whether you want a long-running party or a good old level one meatgrinder.

I used to go with the latter and use a single HP pool, but as I hope to experiment with a more 'epic' feeling game than "Hobos crawl into dark holes and get stabbed" I have moved to the split pools.

Not that theres anything wrong with lots of dead hobos, of course.

But user, the shitposter was inside you the whole time.

>tfw thinking of my dads 1e books
>tfw reading modules like B1, B4, and the GDQ series
>tfw no group to play with

JUST

Is this the thing mentioned in the OP?

Induct your normie friends or go dig around in gamefinder.

Maybe we should have an OSR gamefiner section somewhere.

I think normie friends would be the way to go, especially with the GDQ series.

That way, Salvatore and his imitators won't have spoiled the magic of Gygax's "dark fairyland."

What's a fairly forgiving Basic D&D module for beginning players?

how does this seem, for converting LotFP/BX into a post-apocalyptic scenario:

Fighter = Wastelander
>+1 Attack per level, highest HD

Cleric = Lorekeeper
>shamanic, ritual & healing 'magics'

Magic-User = Artificer
>ability to use, repair and understand surviving old-world tech

Specialist = Ruinrunner
>invest points in skills

Elf = Mammal Mutant
>random physical & mental mutations, bushcraft bonus

Halfling = Plant Mutant
>random physical & mental mutations, stealth bonus

Dwarf = Robot/Android
>a set high HP, nightvision, no need to rest, can only be repaired not 'healed'

SKILLS:
>architecture, scavenge (bushcraft), climbing, languages, open doors, search, sleight-of-hand, sneak attack, stealth, tinkering, medical

SAVES:
>paralyze, poison, radiation (breath), tech (magic device), 'magic'

With a successful INT check, a non-Artificer can attempt to identify or use old-world tech (the latter with a large penalty of -4 or more).
Lorekeepers will still have leveled spells, but Artificers will be the only people able to freely use old-world tech (essentially, they only have 'magic weapons')

B1 In Search of the Unknown, perhaps?

1) Too dependent on pre-existing fantasy classes.
Maybe that's just me, but it's better to make everything from scratch.

2) SKILLS will, probably, work.
Though I think it needs some more thought. If you are playing not!Fallout you don't really need Languages, for example.

3) SAVES are horrible
Make those universal (S&W) with conditional bonuses.

Also, what kind of post-apoc are you thinkig about? I'm a bit confused by references to magic.

...

> Unconquered Sun

Did anyone try playing Godbound? %%Not necessarily in Exalted setting.%%

The image is actually from the old Warhammer Knights of the Sun. How OSR is godbound?

I'm talking about "Sol Invictus" on the shield.

> How OSR is godbound?
Somewhat. A bit like starting at level 3 (or 5).

Chargen seems a bit iffy, if you ask me. Power choice needs to be streamlined.

It's literally a B/X hack by the guy who made Stars Without Numbers and Scarlet Heroes.

Do you have it written up somewhere?

All good suggestions so far, and I will add that at some point he just won't be able to get more henchman. If he has multiple henchman, and they see the PC is using them as expendable meat shields, they're going to split ASAP and smear the PC in every town for a hundred miles.

Henchman in particular are NPC's with class levels, who are going along for a share of treasure and experience.

Less skilled hirelings don't sign up to do the dirty work, they just want to carry shit and go home.

Are there any online resources or similar with ideas for making the LotFP cleric more interesting? I just had a player give up his 3rd level cleric because he felt he never did anything in the dungeons and everyone in the party thought he was worthless. I know the cleric is great with undead beings but there has to be ways to make him interesting to play without that right?

On page 5, Raggi introduces a new character advancement technique:

All classes begin with the same baseline:
1d6 Hit Points
Attack Bonus +1
Parry: +2 Armor Class
Press Attack: AB +1, AC -4
Defensive Attack: AB -4, AC +1
Saving Throws 15 in all categories

At first level, and every level gained thereafter, roll d10 twice on the appropriate
table to determine what benefits are gained from that level. A player can choose
to gamble and instead roll d12 once. All results are cumulative.

Spell slots must immediately be assigned a level. A character can never have
more spell slots of a particular level than the number of slots of the previous
spell level (first level slots are not restricted).

Cleric
1. +d6 Hit Points
2. +1 Attack Bonus
3. +1 Parry Armor Class
4. +2 All Saving Throws
5. +4 One Saving Throw Category
6. +2 All Saving Throws
7. +1 Spell Slot
8. +1 Spell Slot
9. +1 Spell Slot
10. +1 Skill Point
11. Results 1, 4, 7, and 8
12. Results 4, 5, 9, and 10

He made a PDF, I saved it.

Man, that d12 is quite a gamble. You have a 1 in 6 chance of getting 4 upgrades, and a 5 in 6 chance of only getting a single upgrade, half the d10 method. That means for every 6 levels you'll average 9 upgrades, versus 12 for just using the d10.

goblinpunch.blogspot
.com/2013/12/towards-better-cleric.html

Those save adjustments should be written - not +.

You might want to take a look at other OSR post-apocalyptic games like Mutant Future or Other Dust for inspiration. They are offshoots of Labyrinth Lord and Stars Without Number, respectively.

Anybody check out the Peridot zine yet?

>On a tangential note, how do you do hit points /osrg/? Rules as written? Abstract points? Grit vs Flesh?
Whenever combat begins or damage would be dealt the player rolls their hit die. The die is adjusted up or down by the CON bonus and damage is dealt. If that die should be reduced to 0 it is removed and a new one is rolled, adjusted and the remaining damage is applied. Of course the player only has as many hit dice as their level (I haven't used this system for level above 10.)
It's pretty much Carcosa rules with consistent die size.

Healing magic can be used in combat to boost the result of a die or outside of combat to recover a die.

I've never had cause to complain about simple HP. I see the argument for splitting it into something like "spirit points" and "meat points" but I'm not sure it's worth the added mechanical baggage.

As long as I'm using a system without HP bloat.

And some of the fringe cases (like 100' drops that would go directly to "meat points") are a relative rarity.

bump

Attributes.

Which ones do you prefer? How many should there be?

Do we really need Charisma?

Charisma is the henchman control attribute, which makes it really important if you're OSRing in the intended way.

Well, it's still one use only.

Something like
> Influence (Charisma, Social Status, Reputation)
makes more sense to me.

Skills & Powers has Charisma's subabilities be Leadership and Appearance. Leadership controls henchmen, Appearance controls NPC reactions.

Social status isn't connected to ability scores, and shouldn't be. The way Al-Qadim handled it was fine.

>Well, it's still one use only.
The same goes for a lot of attributes, though. Just look at Basic, where Intelligence gives bonus languages and is a Prime Requisite and Wisdom doesn't even do anything other than being a Prime Requisite. Hell, Charisma affecting henchmen amount, henchmen morale and reaction checks means that it probably does more than any other stat.

Charisma didn't become a dump stat until 3E, you know, and that was entirely because they dumped hirelings and morale and tied reaction checks to a skill.

>Social status isn't connected to ability scores, and shouldn't be.
Truth. Should every single king really be highly charismatic?

My homebrew combines all the mental stats into a single score (Intelligence). Well, sort of. It's more like it combines Intelligence and Wisdom and ditches Charisma, in favor of making any possible checks stat-less. Then again, I never was much interested in turning adventures into expeditionary commercial ventures with henchmen and whatnot.

I am also doing something like this, but instead my game is more 'lost world' in a way. Instead of Post Apocalypse people get lost and are forced to live in a strange city in the middle of an endless wood where it is always night time.

I'm not sure if the game should have classes yet though, or what exactly the mechanics should be. I am probably going to be using something like Into the Odd as a base though.

> Social status isn't connected to ability scores,
It isn't. In DnD.

Should I call myself TravellerAnon?

> and shouldn't be.
Why not? Your abilities are (at least partially) influenced by your origin. Being born as a Baron is different from being born as a Peasant.

Should you approach a watchman and introduce yourself properly, his reaction will be very different. Same goes for your hirelings.

Why not approximate this all in one simple stat?

> The same goes for a lot of attributes, though.
Well, the question was about all attributes. I specifically mentioned Charisma because I was thinking about it.

What of the other stats?

> Truth. Should every single king really be highly charismatic?
Shouldn't every king be _influential_?

Even if we use Charisma/Influence for Loyalty checks alone, henchmen will have more loyalty to their king, rather then to some merchant, even if both act, look and pay the same.

>What of the other stats?
They're the same. It's just a 4 stat system now: Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity, and Constitution. When I started banging everything together I came to the realization of how much less important the mental stats were in my games, overall.

I'm going the other way. Strength and Constitution got rolled into one stat: Toughness (the rest are autistically correct Awareness, Cognition, Dexterity, Willpower). I decided against adding Intuition (for now, at least).

I often roll Strength and Constitution into Might (sometimes Brawn), but in D&D, they're too important for this, at least how we play. I also often use Awareness, but the point at which I add that is the point at which I start reshaping the game rather dramatically (awareness and wisdom have never been a very good fit, in my opinion, not least of which because it doesn't seem like clerics should be the most alert motherfuckers around). And Willpower? Maybe rolled into some sort of Spirit / Presence / Authority stat, but I find it easy enough to improvise and possibly make stat-less rolls. Things like bravery and such, when there needs to be a roll for them, I tend to handle via stat-less level-checks (on which fighters get the better of 2 rolls).

>Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity, and Constitution
Hi GURPS.

Does Social Standing actually do anything in Traveller apart from in chargen?