Is there any evidence that he is still sane? Any to the contrary...

That's kind of awesome. Is that the only fluff that references that?

>Is that the only fluff that references that?

As far as I know, it's the only source that mentions it.

why didn't this happened before the emperor was born?

man I hate emperor fanboys.
Give it up, bud. It's grimmer and derper if the Emperor is dead and has no hope of reviving.
40k runs on the rule of grimderp.
therefore the grimmest, derpest option is always the chosen one.
therefore the Emperor is dead.

>harlequins on Terra can't stand Emps juice
>harlequins in presence of entire gardens of Farseers, black library, those white library dudes all goes super peachy
>able to fight big demons which is concentrated fuckyoupsychicrape without getting a headache
Literally what.

Also:
>harlequins going on Terra
>retarded
I can still pick both

Because GW writers

The Emperor is a psychic presence that's holding back the Chaos Gods on a galactic scale. No daemon or group of Eldar compare to that.

>>harlequins going on Terra

The Imperial Palace is linked to the Webway.

According to TTS he's alive but in excruciating pain. And before someone says I'm not using TTS as a fucking source for the 40k canon.

In other words, ten thousand years of complete unnumbing pain would probably do something to your head.

Huh.

I was going to call you retarded but I am going to sit in a corner with my wrongness.

>“To me the background to 40K was always intended to be ironic."

>“The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they’re brutal, but they’re also completely self-deceiving. The whole idea of the Emperor is that you don’t know whether he’s alive or dead. The whole Imperium might be running on superstition. There’s no guarantee that the Emperor is anything other than a corpse with a residual mental ability to direct spacecraft.

>“It’s got some parallels with religious beliefs and principles, and I think a lot of that got missed and overwritten.”

- Rick Priestly the creator of 40k

The funny thing the creator of 40K agrees with you. However, the current writers of 40K are HFYfags that missed the point of the setting.

thank you user and Rick Priestly. This is very gratifying to me as someone who prefers a dead Emperor and marines as shocking post-human angels/abominations.

Because Chaos wasn't as strong back then.

Refer to It's impossible for him to be dead. And if you don't think the Emperor suffering for millenia to protect both humanity and the whole galaxy from Chaos tearing everything apart isn't grimdark then I don't know what to say.

Except those Eldar and Daemons aren't actively protecting the whole of humanity against Chaos Gods with their psychic powers. And Terra itself is beset by Chaos constantly so it's even stronger there.
And the Eldar broke through the failed Imperial Webway. They had to push a shitload of their psykers to death, but they managed it.

what made it so strong?

Hundreds of trillions of new psychic beings emerging in the galaxy

where do they emerge from?

Look m80 pot80 a single piece of years old fluff that says the Emperor isn't dead proves basically fuck all. See it turns out Priestly, one of the creators of the universe reckons that it's impossible to tell whether the Emperor is alive or dead. Which I find a lot more satisfying than
>NOBLE STRUGGLE
As for 40k fluff being contradictory? Well, yeah, it obviously is.
Jerk off over the Emperor's Mighty And Valiant Struggle if you like, but people don't have to agree with you.

Their home worlds. Several species, humans among them, took to the stars to colonize and exponentially increased their populations over the several tens of thousands of years between "now" and 30k.

First was the war between the Old Ones and the Necrontyr. The millenia long war turned the Realm of Souls into the Warp from all that negative influence.

Then came the Eldar who were the most numerous race in the galaxy or a long time.

Then around the time of humanity's colonization, psykers started appearing everywhere as if triggered by something in the galaxy, or possibly something that was dormant in their genetics. Crazier shit has happened so meh.

But because the Realm of Souls was no longer the placid realm it was, those psykers couldn't tap into its power without attracting warp spawn, leading to a galaxy wide panic attack.

Then the Eldar fucked Slannesh into existence and s/he kick-started the Daemonic Hate March on reality.

Do you really expect people to not knock on your opinions when you act like a dick about it?

I don't know. But the Emperor was created precisely because Chaos was getting too strong and the shamans/perpetuals weren't able to get reborn after death. So they were a greater threat even back then.
I'd say they became strong enough to destroy reality sometime before the Unification wars, because the Emperor decided at that time that humanity has no chance of protecting itself without him. As others said, humanity wasn't the only Warp attuned race at that point so Chaos just kept getting stronger and stronger. So He finally stepped out of the shadows and risked everything on the Imperium, hoping to weaken/starve the Chaos Gods before they can do any harm by banning religion and setting up the Imperial Webway. But His Primarchs got corrupted and the Horus Heresy destroyed everything.

>muh headcanon
It isn't the only piece of fluff. And the meta information from 30 years ago matters fuck all in present 40k.
Nothing wrong with headcanon but it's retarded to cry about it if the actual canon disagrees with it.

look at all this beautiful inconsistency

I prefer this as well. Some of 40k's best lore is the stuff that's left ambiguous, like Cypher, the Lion's true loyalties during the Heresy (before BL screamed from the highest hive tower that he was loyal to the end), the origins of the Tyranids, etc.

>MUH CANON
Shut up, carnac.

Nothing was said that is mutually exclusive, though there is one point I will correct him on. The shamans did not create the Emeperor based on the current state of the warp at the time, but because they knew it would get much worse, and they were right

There are alot of questions regarding the Emperor of mankind.

He's a perpetual, why is he in the condition he's in?

It's the 41st milennium, you can engineer humans in a lab. They cant fix the Emperor?

Is there no way to end his plight w/o letting the warp in through the golden throne?

The Eldar are surely aware of the situation. Do they not care that the head monkey's corpse is the last barrier between warp space and reality?

The Emperor is a powerful psychic, he cant communicate at all?

What the fuck?

Do Eldar need to pork throughout pregnancy?
Are Tau women really that ugly?
Did Kitten have some taste of blueberry pie?
Did Magnus do nothing wrong?
Was it full on or only mildly retarded to give Spooky Batman his legion if murderhobos?
Who was a good boy? Who was a good boy? Leman Russ a good boy?

>He's a perpetual, why is he in the condition he's in?

Perpetuals can be permanently injured or killed by copious amounts of warp enemy.

>It's the 41st milennium, you can engineer humans in a lab. They cant fix the Emperor?

The Emperor isn't human anymore. He is a more advanced stage of human evolution, given the advantage he has because of psychic mass suicide. He can't be cloned much the same way Space Marines can't be cloned: it's possible but fuck if anyone in the Imperium knows how.

>Is there no way to end his plight w/o letting the warp in through the golden throne?
The throne was supposed to be humanity's webway, but now there is a giant Magnus sized hole in there. Probably not.

>The Eldar are surely aware of the situation. Do they not care that the head monkey's corpse is the last barrier between warp space and reality?
Being the pissants they are, they do but that isn't stopping them from being total dicks about it.

>The Emperor is a powerful psychic, he cant communicate at all?
Everything is all wonky, so maybe? Who knows if anyone is even aware that they are being spoken to by the Emperor. For all we know, people do hear him, but all they hear is 'MY NOSE FUCKING ITCHES!' and it compels them to scratch their nose.

>Do Eldar need to pork throughout pregnancy?
Dunno, but it wouldn't surprise me.

>Are Tau women really that ugly?
Yes

>Did Kitten have some taste of blueberry pie?
Next question

>Did Magnus do nothing wrong?
That hole in the webway says otherwise

>Was it full on or only mildly retarded to give Spooky Batman his legion if murderhobos?
No, it was retarded that he didn't get some goddamn antidepressants before taking that kind of power.

>Who was a good boy? Who was a good boy? Leman Russ a good boy?
He went pee pee on the carpet so no.

Except it's not mutually exclusive.

I'm not Carnac. I also ignore some of the fluff I don't like, but I'm not an autistic manbaby so I won't go to lore threads to bitch about my headcanon and try to force it down other peoples throats.

Because he can't let himself die.
Probably not. The AdMech, with the help of the Dark Eldar, will try to fix the failing Golden Throne though.
Some theories claim thatCypher can stab him with his sword and that will somehow prevent the giant release of Warp energy upon his death. That still leaves the problem of the Emperor having to be reborn.
Some of them know it, that's why Dark Eldar will help fix stuff. But they are pissed about it, because untill they free themselves from Slaanesh, they have to relly on the Imperium surviving and protecting Terra.
He did talk to an Inquisitor in some old novel, but as I've said that is probably retconed by now.

>Did Kitten have some of Shadowsun's blueberry pie?

We all know he did. Everybody knows the Tau women prefer Humanity's superior greatswords

>and He refers to Himself as "we"

Its common (or rather was common) for royalty to refer to themselves as "we" rather than I or me. Dont ask me why, its one of those weird ass traditions.

...

>He's a perpetual, why is he in the condition he's in?
There's a theory that Emperor would simply reincarnate if he was allowed to actually die instead of being suspended in vegetative coma as he is.
The problem is even in the shape he is, he's still powering Astronomicon, well, him and the daily sacrifices of hundreds Psyker lives.
Imperium can't afford to lose Astronomicon, it would put all space travel to halt.

He's insane. Why has no one posted his Inquisition Wars speech?

...

Wasn't there a book series a while back where a character met with the Emperor, and it seemed as if his mind had fragmented? I remember it being quoted on Veeky Forums a while back.

NO I WILL NOT!

>‘WE ARE CURIOUS,’ came a mighty, anguished thought which itself transcended time.
>‘WE HAVE FOLLOWED YOUR INTRUSION INTO OUR SANCTUARY, OUR ANTRUM AND ADYTUM.’
‘My lord.’ Jaq sank to his knees. ‘I beg to report to you before I am destroyed. I may have uncovered a major conspiracy—’
>‘THEN WE WILL STRIP YOUR SOUL BARE. RELAX, MORTAL MAN, OR YOU WILL SURELY DIE IN SUCH PAIN AS WE ALWAYS ENDURE.’
Jaq breathed deeply, slowly, stilling the panic that fluttered under his ribs like a trapped bird. He surrendered himself. A hurricane roared through his mind.
If the story that he had thought to relate were a tangled forest – and if each event in that story were a tree – then within moments all the leaves were stripped away from all of the trees, denuding them to bare wintry twigs, to a raw basic life without the foliage of memories.
He was drained of his story; that was sucked from him in a trice, all of those leaves whirling into the mind-maw of the Master. Jaq gagged. Jaq drooled.
He was an imbecile, less than an imbecile.
He was less than a new-born baby.
He neither knew where he was, nor who he was – nor what it even meant to be a someone.
The inquisitor sprawled. All that was known to his body was distress, the gurglings of the guts, breath and light. Light from afar.

ABRUPTLY, ALL MEMORY flooded back. On that instant, each leaf sprouted anew to recloak the forest of his life.
>‘WE HAVE PUT BACK WHAT WE TOOK AND TASTED, INQUISITOR’
Trembling, Jaq regained his kneeling posture and wiped his lips and chin. The previous moments were a hideous limbo, unknowable, immeasurable. He was Jaq Draco again.
>‘WE ARE MANY, INQUISITOR.’ The voice boomed in his mind almost gently – if gently was how an avalanche would sweep away a doomed village, if gently was how a scalpel might strip a life to the bare aching bones.

>‘HOW ELSE COULD WE ADMINISTER OUR IMPERIUM—’
>‘AS WELL AS WINNOW THE WARP—’
>‘HOW ELSE?’
The Emperor’s mind-voice, if that truly was what it was, had dissociated into several voices, as if his great undying soul co-existed in fragments that barely hung together.
>‘SO DOES THE HYDRA THREATEN US?’
>‘IMPERILLING OUR GREAT AND AWFUL PLAN TO STEER HUMANITY?’
>‘DID WE OURSELVES DEVISE THE HYDRA?’
>‘PERHAPS IN A PART OF US, SINCE THIS HYDRA PROMISES A PATH?’
>‘SURELY A MALEVOLENT PATH; FOR HOW COULD HUMANITY EVER FREE ITSELF?’
>‘THEN WE MUST BE MALEVOLENT TOO. FOR WE HAVE EXPELLED OUR SENTIMENTALITY LONG AGO. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ENDURED? HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE IMPOSED OUR RULE?’
>‘YET BY VIRTUE OF THAT WE ARE PURE AND UNCONTAMINATED BY WEAKNESS. WE ARE GRIM SALVATION.'

>referring to himself as 'we'.
That's standard royalspeak, it doesn't mean a plural being.

>‘NOTHING THAT SAFEGUARDS HUMANITY CAN BE EVIL, NOT EVEN THE MOST STRENUOUS INHUMANITY. IF THE HUMAN RACE FAILS, IT HAS FAILED FOREVER.’
>'WHEN WE CONFRONTED THE CORRUPTED, HOMICIDAL HORUS WHO ONCE USED TO SHINE LIKE THE BRIGHTEST STAR, WHO USED TO BE OUR BELOVED FAVOURITE – WHEN THE FATE OF THE GALAXY HUNG BY A THREAD – WERE WE NOT COMPELLED TO EXPEL ALL COMPASSION? ALL LOVE? ALL JOY? THOSE WENT AWAY. HOW ELSE COULD WE HAVE ARMOURED OURSELVES? EXISTENCE IS TORMENT, A TORMENT THAT MUST NOURISH US. EVIDENTLY WE MUST STRIVE TO BE THE FIERCE REDEEMER OF MAN, YET WHAT WILL REDEEM US?’
‘Great lord of all,’ whimpered Jaq, ‘did you know of the hydra before now?’
>‘NO, AND WE SHALL SURELY ACT IN DUE TIME—’
>‘YET SURELY WE KNEW. HOW COULD WE NOT KNOW?’
>‘ONCE WE HAVE ANALYSED THE INFORMATION WITHIN THIS SUB-MIND OF OURS.’
>‘HEAR THIS, JAQ DRACO: ONLY TINY PORTIONS OF US CAN HEED YOU, OTHERWISE WE NEGLECT OUR IMPERIUM, OF WHICH OUR SCRUTINY MUST NOT FALTER FOR AN INSTANT. FOR TIME DOES NOT HALT EVERYWHERE WITHIN THE REALM OF MAN. INDEED TIME ONLY HALTS FOR YOU.’

Ambiguity is a lot better, but I don't think the current writers are HFYfags. They just want there to be more definites, because that keeps things simple and helps avoid all the nasty grey areas that might prevent new people from really enjoying the setting. Otherwise, what if you have one author treating it as if things are going one way, while another author makes the assumption that things are going another way? The canon being concrete isn't a bad thing when there's less a team and more of a confederation working on it, because then no one goes in crazy directions that can't be later explained.

On a similar note, one of the writers for TES complained that in Morrowind, he wanted there to be one definitively true answer, even if mixed among non-true answers, while the writers at the time basically made a bunch of answers without any decision on if any of them were even true. So I think there needs to be a 'hidden pillar' to ambiguous answers - the idea that there is one true answer, even if it's never actually revealed.

>That still leaves the problem of the Emperor having to be reborn.
Would that be reborn as in regenerating or reborn as in appearing in some random, or hopefully predictable, human woman's womb?

Also should the Imperium have a chance to prepare for the Emp's rebirth, how ridiculously fortified would whatever planet he's predicted to come back on be and how would the various factions react if/when they learnt about the whole situation?

>‘WE ARE AN EVER-WATCHFUL LORD, ARE WE NOT? DID YOU HOPE TO GAIN OUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION?’
>‘HOW ELSE SHOULD WE SOUL-BIND PSYKERS AND OVERVIEW THE WARP AND BEAM THE ASTRONOMICAN BEACON AND SURVIVE AND RECEIVE INFORMATION AND GRANT AUDIENCES ALL AT ONCE, UNLESS WE ARE MANY?’
>‘AND YET STILL WE MISS SO MUCH, SO VERY MUCH? SUCH AS THAT WHICH GUIDED YOU HERE.’
>‘OUR SPIRIT GUIDED YOU.’
>‘NO: ANOTHER SPIRIT, A REFLECTION OF OUR GOODNESS WHICH WE THRUST FROM US.’
>‘WE ARE THE ONLY SOURCE OF GOODNESS, SEVERE AND DRASTIC. THERE IS NO OTHER SOURCE OF HOPE THAN US.
>'WE ARE AGONISINGLY ALONE.’

The Emperor has become coocoo for coco puffs.
He's insane

Was he ever sane?

...

>We are agonizingly alone.

I imagine that before HH made him into a dick, this was a pretty powerful line. All the sacrifices that he had ended up having to make, ten thousand years of mental torment that would've killed a weaker man.

That's why it's best to pretend the HH series never happened

I wonder who's skull that is on the armrest. I mean they wouldn't just put a random guy in the Golden Throne.

That depends. Perpetuals in HH just regenerate. But he is the Emperor and so far his shaman backstory has not yet been retconed, as far as I know. So he might just reappear somewhere instead of regenerating. Then again there is no concrete information on how he was originally created, just that it happened after thousands of shamans commited suicide and pooled their soul into one.
To be fair there is not even any concrete proof that he is guaranteed to be reborn.

I'm guessing many planets rebelling from the Imperium and false Emperors rising with them, if the word gets out. But at that point humanity would have evolved already, where evey human is a really strong and incorruptible psyker so they would have no problem detecting the true Emperor - you can't really fake being the strongest psyker ever. Defense should be easy. Now that Chaos is somewhat out of the picture the Imperium would be much stronger and safer. Except if they fail to somehow continioue guiding the Astronomican, that could fracture the Imperium in the time it would take the Emperor to take control over it again.

Horus did nothing wrong.

He died. I count that as doing something wrong.

...

Horus did quite a lot wrong.

Losing, for one. Letting Erebus remain alive within the same galaxy as him is another.

>But he is the Emperor and so far his shaman backstory has not yet been retconed, as far as I know.

He is a True Perpetual like Alivia and Olly. Alivia stated that despite being cunningly "created" and resistent to Chaos, True Perpetuals are not immune to temptation.

Also the Emperor did get his power from the Chaos Gods as a part of a bargain.

Was Horus mad because he was insecure with his baldness?

>Also the Emperor did get his power from the Chaos Gods as a part of a bargain.
>He believes the shit some daemon told Horus to turn him traitor
Yeah, sure. Why not.

Don't talk to Carnac pls

Oh shit. He really should become a tripfag, I didn't know it was him.

>Horus's clone was killed by Abaddon
>at the very moment of his death he recognized his son
>Abaddon denounced him and claimed he had no father

Not to mention the Emperor knows he is an entire host of Psyker souls in one body and is well aware of many if their memories and past lives. Typically a king uses the Royal We since he speaks for an entire group of people. Emperor uses it because he IS an entire group of people.

His brother had very convincing staff.

>>He believes the shit some daemon told Horus to turn him traitor

It wasn't a daemon who said that.

It was Alivia who said it and she has plenty of proof to back her up, considering that she was the one who dragged him from the Warp after he finished the deal.

Dude, if you don't like the HH and never read it, please don't comment or reply.

>Horus always boasting about perfection
>Is bald

Could the entire clusterfuck that is the 40k universe be averted if the Emperor gave Horus great hair?

No. Lorgar would had started the heresy, as his envy of Horus would have him green.

Dude if you like the Horus Heresy and have read it, please don't comment or reply.

Yeah but he has cool writing on his face. I don't think he'd care.

>'WE ARE AGONIZINGLY ALONE.’

Sweet fucking Jesus. We lost this character for the maximum autistic tipping of the HH series.

Dude, shut the fuck up. If you are going to bring up Perpetuals and the origin as it is shown the HH series expect someone to mention all that is known about him in the series.

Don't act like a total bitch when someone mentions does and don't go with "Herp it was daemons crap". I mean WOW.....you read Horus Rising. How about now you read the rest of the 37 books before acting like an expert and telling me what's in them, NERD

Not really.

Meet Imperius the Solar Priest aka Avatar of the Golden Throne aka Aspect of the Emperor.

He is the amalgamation of anchuent shaman souls to begin with.

...

Stop being so quick to be contrarian.

...

...

Gotta remember that Inquisition War wasn't a perfect bed of roses, though. It's a very weird set of books.

Damn sight more interesting than the current black library crop because of it, though.

It is strange, but it does make some sense - there was an old short story where a Navigator pleaded to the Emperor for aid, and apparently the Emperor actually reached out and helped becalm the warp enough for them to get through.

This isn't as much the Emperor's doing, really, and loses out on some of the godliness of the Emperor, but it would fit with that.

Not really.

Alivia Sureka and Olly.P are very interesting. Especially with their connection of the Emperor. Both of them knew the Emperor on a personal level and they are not awed by him. We have actual insight into what a colleague of an emperor thinks of him rather than what brainwashed morons see.

Both them think the Emperor is an amoral shit

Except no one knows what the bargain was for, and you are making the biggest assumption possible with a lack of knowledge surrounding the setting, on top of it contradicting a half dozen lore pieces.

The point is that all those things are dumb bullshit and should be ignored.

Like you.

Except that Olly P. spends a chunk of his story barely remembering his past properly. I don't trust him as a source, though I admit I've been heavily against the Perpetual idea since I first heard of it. It takes the mysticism out of everything, makes the Emperor just another immortal guy instead of a unique (flawed) champion of humanity, gives the writers an excuse to make references to modern stuff instead of trying to build on any of 40k's barely-written history.

Except we do (picture related). The whole book points at it. Evidence pointing that the Emperor came to the planet not as powerful as he is now and entered the Gateway to the Gods and many more. You never read and that's a big issue here.

And don't go dozens of whatever on me. The HH series are re-writing the lore. You would lose count about the things they changed from the old lore.

I said shut up. The other user mentioned perpetuals and I mentioned further information about them.
If you don't like it, then you should have done what you said and ignored it but you are too dumb to do that.

Prepare for crackers.

...

I just find it stupid that

A) the Emperor can somehow steal power from the Chaos Gods. In most cases the Chaos Gods just smack down anyone who tries to abuse their gifts.
B) that the Emperor needed to steal their powers. He was already a bunch of powerful pyskers mixed together into one ubersoul.
C) that the Emperor could get away with it. Again, the whole smackdown thing, and it wasn't as if he didn't make use of his psychic powers. You'd be hard pressed to find a time he definitely wasn't in contact with the Warp.

It just stinks of bad writing trying to pull a twist for the shock factor.

>though I admit I've been heavily against the Perpetual idea since I first heard of it.

Does this imply that you changed your mind?

Throne, that was some beautiful writing. Whoever wrote that, I wish they were still with BW.

>He's insane

That actually didn't sound that insane, considering He is a Godlike super-being who is charged with protecting an entire galaxy-spanning race, considering His mind has fragmented to deal with the monumental task of keeping literal Gods at bay, considering he has done so -lain immobile and in pain- for ten thousand years, considering all he has lost and stands to lose.

He sounds quite terribly sane, considering those aforementioned points.

Hail the Emperor of Man.

No, not really. I've mellowed a little since it's not like it's going away, but that doesn't mean I like it.

>He was already a bunch of powerful pyskers mixed together into one ubersoul.

I don't think that's canon anymore. The True Perpetuals were created by something or someone but there is nothing pointing that the Emperor was special than the other two known True Perpetuals before entering the Gateway.

>that the Emperor could get away with it. Again

He didn't. The HH was the paypack.

>You'd be hard pressed to find a time he definitely wasn't in contact with the Warp.

He safe in the Materium but in the Warp if he gets in the presence of the Chaos Gods, as Alivia puts it, it would be suicide for him.

>It just stinks of bad writing trying to pull a twist for the shock factor.

McNeil said that he proposed the idea for that novel and that the guys at GW and BL thought it was a great idea. They okay'ed it. It's in the afterword of the novel.

>Whoever wrote that, I wish they were still with BW.
Ian Watson's books (Space Marine, Inquisitor, Harlequin, Chaos Child, various shorts) pre-date black library entirely.

I highly recommend them. They get meme'd on, but he is a legit author.

>I came upon an old article Gav Thorpe had written in White Dwarf.

>The article was about using Daemon Knights in games of Epic, and the backdrop for their introduction to the game was the war on Molech, a conflict that embodied the Heresy in microcosm: ferocious combat, hideous betrayal, the insidious touch of Chaos and slaughter on an unimaginable scale. With the setting in place, I wanted something more, something that made this particular conflict personal to Horus. That immediately suggested that it had to involve the Emperor. Not in person (steady on, we’re not there yet!) but something to do with the power at the heart of the Master of Mankind. That gave Molech extra significance, and got straight to the heart of the Warmaster too, a reason for him to risk his own life in the field.

-McNeil

Basically, he read a read a random HH WD article and decided to make the setting of his novel. He added "Where the Emperor got his power" plotline to make it juicier for the reader.

I am actually surprised that McNeil has that much freedom to pull something that ballsy. Kudos.