Pathfinder General /pfg/

>Illidan
>a Paladin

Pic related; fought for the glory of his secretly Lawful Evil liege.

She's not learning 'magic' quite as much as she's learning to just make supernatural shit happen directly.

Things have been on hiatus for a good number of months since Kaz underestimated the amount of effort that would go into the merch drive, as well as the next update apparently being the biggest in the comic's entire run.

Things have kinda turned around, yeah, sooorta? Things keep knocking her back down, but we're at a point where things will go great, or they'll go terribly.

Anticipation, yo.

HE HAS SWORDS! THEY CLEAVE EVIL!

Hey, /pfg/, need some help with an NPC backstory element for one of my players.

They are currently playing a paladin in search of an old friend, who is missing and believed to have fallen.

I intend for the friend to show up as an Insinuator antipaladin, having been forced to bargain with dark forces after falling in a misguided attempt to save the world by any means necessary, but I also want the antipaladin to be redeemable so the possibility exists for my player to save their friend.

To this end, I need some non-edgy ways a paladin can fall while remaining at least somewhat sympathetic.

>are they really standard actions regardless of the original spell?
Yes
>bottled ally extract... Infusion... tumor can drop two pokemon and have them act immediately
Yes

Also consider the fact that your progression is delayed and spotty, you'll likely not have augment or improved summoning (without totally wasting a feat on spell focus), planar preservationist feat is MANDATORY after a certain point (probably level... 7-9?), and to get the best effect you'll be blowing through extracts like candy. It's still really good, though.
Preservationist by itself is a ridiculous archetype, holy shit.

>Not having your extracts actually be candy

to be honest I'd be inclined to actually stat him as a soul hunter slayer dual wielding double-scimitars because fuck the rules, dropping solar wind in exchange for black seraph, and using some veiled moon & thrashing dragon, maaaybe tiny bits of broken blade

not sure how to handle his magic aspects though

"we've been fighting a fucking box for 45 minutes!"

w e j

I MEAN VENGEANCE DEMON HUNTER CLEAVE THE SOULS RIGHT OUT OF EVIL

then they eat said souls, but that just prevents respawns

Kinitecists are amazing
Prove me wrong
>inb4 muh burn costs

Gave into despair and hopelessness. They never fell to the wrong side, but they lost their way.

Which book puts forth Archetypes?

>ROW campaign on roll20
>Oh this looks...
>15 PB
>summoner b&
>drawback

Good campaign when?

>extracts are candy
>summon spells are animal crackers
Alchemist is battlechef and/or little old grandma.

Kinitecists are fucking incredible, way better than the Kineticist which is fucking terrible.

gestalt.

>>extracts are always a standard action
So, I was pretty sure this was how they worked too, but then they went and printed an Alchemist-only spell that's a swift action, and only makes sense as a swift action, so who fucking knows anymore

Yeah, but have you seen Kiknightecists? They're basically a strict upgrade over a Kinitecist, and I think it's pretty cool to be able to gish it up as a heavily armored mage without necessarily having to go Magus. Not that there's anything wrong with Magus, but a Kiknightecist can use heavy armor right out of the box, and doesn't have to worry about running out of spells.

Hm, that's curious.

I was gonna say 'Bomb Admixtures have been a thing for a while' but I went and checked, and the OTHER bomb admixtures are standard actions.

Weird.

They cleave FOR evil.

I'm placing my bet on it being written by someone who doesn't understand how alchemists work. It's not unbelievable that could happen and slip through the cracks.

That said, I also don't see a reason not to let it just work as printed.

I had a lot of fun with Andrei.

He was a Shelynite Paladin who was deliberately played as sort of a stereotypical heartthrob - not necessarily the brightest, but sweet natured, a little dangerous, and willing to be the center of attention. He took responsibility for his party, kicked in the doors of evil, and counseled troubled kids to seek adventure and virtue and take pride in themselves.

He was adventuring to teach people self-love and how to make yourself a better person, and part of those lessons was knowing that he wasn't quite there himself, but that it was still his duty to give it his best effort.

>evil campaign
>an alternate timeline where our PC's take Tar-Baphon's place in history
>we're the ancient evil that's awakening at Gallowspire
>just one small problem - we're all level 1 due to our powers waning under the Great Seal

On a scale of "probably" to "HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA" how likely are we to die in our first combat? Why does HE get to keep his levels /and/ his Mythic Ranks?

My friend is complaining about being an underpowered heal-bot as a cleric. How can I make him feel more effective? Are there any good cleric fighter builds? Alternatively, how do I talk him out of multiclassing into fighter and going straight cleric?

A large part of illidans / demon hunters shtick is murdering the shit out of demons. Nobody is quite sure if they're good guys or bad guys cause of the powers they dabble in, but by all accounts the *seem* to be good.

Not everyone who fights evil is a Paladin though.

Because he's not a PC in a campaign that's meant to start in Rusty Dagger Shanktown.

Tell him that the only heal spells he should be using should be in wand form and that he should prepare buff spells to codzilla it out.

I am playing a LE Asmodean Cleric, and am in fact using the Asmodean Advocate archetype.

>d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cleric-archetypes/asmodean-advocate-cleric-archetype

Two CG party members of mine has been attempting to screw me over constantly. Going through my character's belongs, stealing from my character, spying on my characters, and generally attempting to undermine everything I accomplish. I have no done anything negative towards either of them, and have indeed only acted pragmatically in front of time. All of my more evil dealings occur when I leave the party while in town to go send letters & attempt to make contact with the local branch of the Asmodean cult (which has become difficult, I need to cast invisibility before I leave the party so they can not follow me).

Thoughts? What should I do?

>Stealing from your character
Set the situation up so that the LG/LN member of the group catches the CG characters in flagranti.

The party member's alignments are the following:
>CG sorcerer
>CG hunter
>TN warlord
>CN oracle
>LE cleric (me)

>entire team is Chaos

Run.

You should still bring it up to the GM. Players stealing from other players for no IC reason is a huge red flag.

Me and the warlord seem like the only sane ones. I am working with them because of a mission from the church, my character having been told by a higher level cleric of asmodeus that I need follow up on a possible demon outbreak (the campaign is following someone who is turning mortals into psuedo-demons).

I'm there for that, the CG ones are there because they need to kill some demons, the warlord is there to try and find an estranged son, and the oracle is there because he believes his curse was inflicted on him by the same guy who is making the demons.

Also the sorcerer didn't actually invest in social skills besides intimidate, and thus I am the party face using Profession (Barrister).

Also I am confused, I want to take Evangelist, but it seems I can't as a cleric of asmodeus. This seems odd to me, is there a reason for it?

>archivesofnethys.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Evangelist

What? Yes you can, all those listed classes are just the "usual class entries" by each deity, they are by no means required. You'll notice, for instance, that absolutely none of them have Cleric as a suggestion, despite the fact that it would work well. All you need is to be properly aligned, have the Deific Obedience feat, and have one of +5 BAB, 5 ranks in a skill, or 3rd-level casting.

You are lawful evil. Tell them if you even so much as suspect them being near your things or going through your stuff that you'll kill them.

You don't make threats - you make promises.

But yeah, it sounds like your group is fucking retarded "LOL SO RANDUMB" people who cant understand that even chaotic characters don't shit where they eat unless they're int/wis 3. as say.

>You don't make threats - you make promises.
I do not think I could kill both of them, and they seem to be wishing to an excuse to kill me first. I may have to be preemptive.

Which ones have been going through your stuff and what are your domains?

I am an Asmodean Advocate so I only have trickery.

The two CG ones, the Sorcerer and the Hunter.

I wouldn't take an offensive effort against them. Defend yourself from them, but let them live unhindered because they are your allies in this cause (that doesn't mean you can't voice displeasure at their actions, of course, but just call them out on being dicks instead of making threats). You don't have to hurt them to be evil. Look after yourself, and tell them they're being dumb shits and if they keep being dumb shits it'll some day get them in trouble.

I'd also point out that they're not acting very good if they're doing shit like that. They sound like the kind of players that put good on the character sheet because they want to be perceived favorably and want to think of themselves as heroes, but who can't be assed to actually act good when it's inconvenient or annoying or not-fun.

What level are you/they?

Plant incriminating shenanigans. Wait for them to steal it. Tell the fuzz.
If they take it as an excuse to try to kill you, get the fuzz to help you.
If they continue, use your asmodean connections to drop whatever hellknight order most disapproves of this shit to drop in on their asses.
Lawful means having friends. Evil means having friends that don't ask questions.

We are all level 7.

>You don't have to hurt them to be evil. Look after yourself, and tell them they're being dumb shits and if they keep being dumb shits it'll some day get them in trouble.
I have considered booby trapping my belongings, contact poison on several things so that the next time someone roots through my bags they get poisoned.

I have craft alchemy so I can make the poisons myself.

>Lawful means having friends. Evil means having friends that don't ask questions.
I'm stealing this quote

I am far from any hell knight order, but I have been able to make contact with several local branches of the Asmodeus cult. In the town we are currently in the cult has 19 members, and I am the highest level among them. I'm far from Asmodeus's influence.

I may use the local law enforcement.

You're a 7th level cleric of Asmodeus. There's no reason for such mundane vulgarity.
Glyph of Warding and Bestow Curse aught to learn 'em good.

I mean do I really want to curse my party members? Or poison them for that matter.

Asmodeus has nothing to do with it. They're committing a crime against you by the local laws if they steal shit from you. All you have to do is forge shit that looks threatening (Which you can do) and get the fuzz in on it (which you can do) and suddenly it comes down to who has more ranks in Profession (Barrister) OH LOOK AT THAT.

Again I am unsure if I want my party members arrested. Losing the two of them may compromise my mission from the church because at the very least they are effective in combat. I need the hunter to have a tracker who can actually follow demons. The sorcerer would not be a great loss, but I believe killing him would cause hostilities with the hunter.

No. But it's entirely within your rights and (arguably) in character for a Lawful Evil cleric to ensure his possessions are protected.

See how eager the Sorcerer is to fuck with you or your stuff when he takes a -6 to his Cha. If it comes to combat because of it, he's severely gimped.

Then you use your barrister ranks to let them out under your supervision. You are, after all, a cleric of a lawful deity. DM probably won't put them in lockup for theft, in fact you should probably conspire beforehand with him. Either way, they'll end up owing you.

How important is intellect to an Aegis? I have 35 point buy here and could take a 14 in int and have some cha left over or I could go for a 16 int.

Yeah, charisma is usually a dump stat, but i am playing a noble so i need it for noble things

I understand it's GM specific, so here's a fun question;

How does construct armor work in your setting? Is it only humanoid? Can you make a nonhuman looking armor and put your mans in it? Can you make an animal companion in a humanoid suit built for it? Can I have a fluffy white dog in a big plate armor if it has the right proficiency? But no seriously, it seems that, by right of non-detail, if you use a construct limb- or construct armor- with features that you don't have naturally, that you can use them without an extra hiccup of learning it or proficiency; beyond those needed to use armor or shields effectively. It's a fun question to consider if you enjoy in-setting shenanigans of wizards with too much time on their hands.

14 is plenty for an Aegis. You only need it for PPs and reconfigure, and even then they're not critical.

Need my players to walk in on a scene of two Clerics trying to impress a third into converting.

I've already got this for inspiration: youtube.com/watch?v=xxyOTFQFWQ0

But does anyone have any other good examples?

On a different but related note...
>Play an awakened corgi synthesist summoner
>Take Humanoid base form
>Assuming I can 'cast' as a dog without a feat, because otherwise that would be asinine
>Do I need to take a feat to cast as a humanoid?

I had a dragon who wore armor made out of a mithral golem.

Motivations for bad guys who may have redeeming features or beneficial traits/methods?

>Wizard seeks to turn random people into demons/devils, which are immortal and don't need food and drink. They retain their personalities but are easily corrupted to bring down the established authorities. Do the players attempt to stop the wizard, knowing that the created halfbreeds are far superior to their predecessors and, as the wizard argues, the next step in evolution?

>Alchemist researches means to make humans immune to harm and immortal/permanent freedom of movement. This means the government cannot intimidate people into following the law and anarchy develops, which may be good or bad depending on the participants. Do the players embark on a quest to restore order, knowing that doing so will rob people of their future centuries of life?

Well you're at 7th level, so the slayer doesn't have iterative attacks. That works to your favor.

Sadly the trickery domain isn't as good for what you might want to do as law, evil, slavery or ambush would be.

Bestow curse on the sorcerers casting stat, should drop him out of a fight. Greater infernal healing , planar ally (lesser) calling a bearded devil & channel negative energy should let you beat the slayer in a short fight.

Be warned that planar ally does take 10 minutes to cast *and* it's expensive in terms of gold. They'll also probably be reluctant to fight because they can permanently die - though preparing a second infernal healing (if you're wis 18-19) *can* help with that (40hp at 4hp/rd for 10 rounds).

Hunter* sorry

The demons/devils do not retrain their personalities.

Would be better if he were turning them into Axiomites or Archons or something.

With demons or whatever, there isn't much of a moral quandary. Shit just ain't gonna end well, and it doesn't take a 20 int wizard to tell you that.

>inb4 Church of Mahathallah copypasta

What's the best way to make calling thunder from the sky not suck?
Weather domain from spheres of power?

It is important to note that at 7th level the cleric actually has a spell advantage over the sorcerer and hunter, having access to 4th level spells while they're still only working on 3rd level.

You've also got some nasty shit like hold person.

Well, first of all, I think what you actually mean is calling lightning from the sky. Of course, that will probably come paired with thunder.

Second of all, ask your DM if he could throw an intelligent weapon your way that can (or can eventually) cast a spell like Call Lightning some number of times per day. Intelligent weapons get their own actions to cast spells with, so you'd be able to do it without impacting your action economy. At the same time, it's only 3d6 per round on one target, so it shouldn't be too powerful especially at mid or high levels. Won't have to worry about the balance much.

Thundercaller Bard

SoP weather lightening isn't always reliable last I read it

Alright, let's say I'm a neutral Druid.

"A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description)."

I can into Lichdom?

Say I can cast simulacrum.

How do I make the ultimate butler?

Hey /pfg/ why are the majority of people that play this game so fucking retarded? And refuse any suggestions to the contrary?

>havocker
Holy shit this looks like fun, I might actually play this.

With two talents, you can direct a bolt 1/round. You still need a severity 4 storm to cause lightning, so some set up time is required.

Can you stack multiple 'pulse' powers, like Concussive Onslaught?

Seems normal to, but there might be something I missed in the rules saying no?

No. Undead are an abomination against nature. They are a perversion from the most natural cycle of all: life and death.

The green and growing bloom in the spring, grow strong in the summer, wither in fall, and die in winter. A child is born, grows, then ages and dies.

It is a cycle that has existed since the very beginnings of life. The old must give way to the new. Even Elves and Dragons, in time, grow old and perish.

Negative Energy, the force which powers the undead, is anathema to life - and what the Necromancer kills, he then removes from the cycle by raising that too as the undead.

To seek Lichdom is to blaspheme against Nature.

worm that walks maybe. Or some sort of immortal superpredator.

IDK, I'd let you go primal zerg on it

I was kinda hoping for the big long cast time with big long payoff. But pathfinder really doesn't do that well, nearly every spell has a standard, full round or 1round casting time. The concept of a 3 round casting time but appropriately more powerful spell apparently never occurred to them, which is a shame.
That sounds alright.

Very first campaign for the entire group. First time GM-ing for the GM.

Our paladin/face-of-the-group had decided that we take SOME magical fruits that a desert city had that protected their city from wild beasts.

Somehow this was translated to our relatively small battalion of troops taking all of the magical fruits from the entire city.

We came back to a post-apocalyptic desert town with no survivors only days later.

Tark did nothing wrong.

A Siabrae is a classic example of precisely how is wrong.
The tools you use in the defense of nature can be ANY. But generally its expected druids will go into Siabraedom, not Lichdom. Either way you'd be a Neutral Evil character most likely, not a Neutral one.

d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/moss-lich-cr-2

d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/worm-that-walks-cr-2

Did you even read the fluff on Saibrae? They're druidic defenders that were corrupted by the demon shit they were fighting against, not merely evil druids.

And thus, Negative energy is indeed a part of nature. The winter to life's summer, the death that gives way to new life. The cycle never stops - even immortals can die and give way to anew.

To argue that is to argue that gods, spirits, and souls are in violation against nature. Cayden Cailen is as much as an abomination against nature as a Lich, using that very argument.

Had a mental image of a druid using a tree as his/to store his phylactery, corrupting the woods around him in the process and justifying it with giving birth to a new, competitive kind of life. Seemed pretty dank to me.

You might want moss lich then. You could even refluff it to a fungal lich if you want.

It's cheaper than traditional lichdom and should something ever get your phylactery, you can just choose to make a new 'seed' of one.

>Cayden Cailen is as much as an abomination against nature as a Lich, using that very argument.
Are you implying he isn't an abomination?

Random question/request for the thread.
I have to make a character for a new campaign I'm going to join, it's implied that it needs to be a least a little broken in order to be effective/not die. DM has a pretty thorough understanding of rules, so kinda want to avoid being TOO munchkiny...
Anyways, for plot reasons cannot be a summoner, kineticist, sorcerer, magus, or oracle.

Anybody have any thoughts? I'm kinda drawing a blank here...

Forgot to mention, character is starting at level 12. Rest of the party leans towards neutral/good.

Yes, but for entirely different reasons than those you suggested. :^)

Looks pretty cool for all intents. Makes one mean wildshaper.

> implying Paladin can be a lolicon
> implying Paladin would ride humiliate his best friend as ride him as a horse
> implying Paladin wouldn't bet on so-so odd.