Warhammer Fantasy General

The original allure of it was how grounded it was compared to everything else. What ludicrous things were there was meant to be special, and still somewhat grounded. The original team were actual historians, with degrees.

Giant men in golden armor and floating asteroids ruled by gods with both embodying an aspect of the universe threatened by a villain who destroys universes to occupy his downtime is the opposite if what Warhammer was created to be.

For a middle ground, I'd go with something more mild. Warhammer is essentially fantasy tropes on cocaine. The conflicting battle between magic and faith in the invisible and technology and reliance on solid metal and explosive powder.

Warhammer Quest: Vermintide.

You forget Warhammer Fantasy created about half of those tropes.

Its so "generic" because everyone copied it. Like Star Trek.

It wasn't the first, but everyone who came after owes it inspiration credit.

I don't know what ogres "usually" run. I have never played them, as I only started them when I realized that I could pick up a good 5k of ogres off if Ebay for cheap. I'm just now getting around to painting them.

I never said it was generic, but rather that it took what it had and cranked it up to 11.

I'm still waiting for a playable Ogre leadbelcher

As long as the high stuff doesn't completely replace or overshadow the lower stuff then it's perfect for me.

After all the impact of an element is measured relatively to the point of reference provided, a mechanic war machine is impressive when marching alongside men at arms, less so when accompanied by a dragon wizard and a fire elemental instead.

It probably depends on which edition you consider to be the definitive one in terms of fluff. I love the 6'th edition fluff with the gritty dark fantasy focus and gothic pseudo realism. After the Storm of Chaos, the fluff starts getting shittier, it really starts taking a turn for the worse in 7'th edition when it starts becoming cogfop and it becomes high fantasy tripe with the 8'th edition.

Middle ground is 8th edition. You still have normal men Making up the majority of the armies, but then you also have things like mobile battle towers and demigryph Knights and clockwork Angel skeletons alongside all that. I like the empire seeming like a nation that developed from barbarism into a flourishing empire in a world full of magic and mutants. Not a real world nation that got dropped into a fantasy world and added a couple of wizards and a steam tank.

I think that's in Mordheim, the heavy class for Empire mercs is an Ogre. He's smarter than the Rat Ogre because he doesn't have Stupidity, I know that.

It's dead anyway. It doesn't matter what people prefer and not everyone is ever gonna prefer the same thing. I personally think that playing around with magical pseudohistory is more entertaining than spectacle fantasy elements that's just there to look cool with not much thought behind it.

POST THE YOUTUBE LINK TO A SONG THAT REPRESENTS YOUR FAVORITE RACE AND/OR FACTION!

youtu.be/V4U07_4rvbM

TOMB KINGS.

Not in 8th, because irongits only serve to hunt against heeavy calvalry which fell out of favor in 8th
Irongits:great weapon so always strikes last and +2 are leading to a -3modifier to enemy armor saves after standard ogre strength adds in also
Ogre bull-same armor save and a parry for less than an irongut
Not asl(being slow does not mean always striking last(especially with some augment spells))
Option to trade parry for an extra attack
And since ogres are already monstrous infantry and comparatively elites you can just swarm armored infantry like chaos warriors in fat sweaty bodies, which means more impact hits and hideous, hideous 3 rank horde support attacks.

TL;Dr:8th edition deathstar s a meatbus of 18-24 ogres with a lvl4 butch (and a decently kitted bruiser to soak challenges if you want to be hated) just running up a flank and stomping squishy shooters before nailing unsupported core

Nah, it's one of the things I enjoy about WHF, but I prefer it being merely a part of the world and not the overwhelmingly defining characteristic.
Otherwise every peasant might as well have a hochland rifle above the fireplace while steamtanks patrol the roads between villages under the watchful gaze of demigryph knights.
Also beastmen under every bed.

>not wanting every peasant to be a demigryph driving a steamtank bristling with hochland long rifles

You have shit taste user

Not in Warhammer Fantasy.
In its own setting I'm all for it.

user, when every peasant has that shit it makes the one crazy fucker whoms face is best described as "ruddy, porkchops, laurels, monocle" who has those things less important.

Like Warcraft? Where peasant farmers have a wizard in every village, and giant robots working the fields?

Sure. While I preferred Warcaft 1&2 and to some extent 3 to what WoW became I don't mind that kind of over the top, silly world.
Hell, in 40k orks are my favourite faction, that should tell all.

You know, Ghal Maraz doesn't at all look like something forged by dwarves for dwarves. Literally what else made by those furry manlets is adorned with skulls and a cross?

My WHFB likes vary depending on the faction. For example I like the Empire being a fairly grounded pike-and-shot faction with the odd Battle Mage or borderline magi-tech Engineer contraption. I didn't particularly mind the Imperial Exotic Menagerie, but I wasn't necessarily fond of it either. Overall their stylistic theme helped to make them distinct from the typical human polity in other settings.

Contrastingly, I love the Tomb Kings amped up to 11 with the fantastical elements. Nigh-literally bronze-skinned men swinging impossibly sized weapons whilst riding chariots through enemy lines, lines of thousands of archers firing individually-blessed arrows that unerringly seek out their foes, animated statues and effigies of the gods tearing themselves from their pedestals to crush their puny foes beneath them… all this and more before even getting into them after their Undeath!

The problem is, that shouldn't be Fantasy.

Instead of warping an existing game into something else in an act of extreme flanderization, just find something more your style.

I like Warcraft as well (can't play MMOs anymore, do NOT have the time or patience) but liked Warhammer BECAUSE it was unlike Warcraft.

It's a replica, the original was reclaimed after Sigmar prancing away into the wastes.

>The problem is, that shouldn't be Fantasy.
>
>Instead of warping an existing game into something else in an act of extreme flanderization, just find something more your style.
user, get your glasses or learn to read.
You're arguing with some other user replying to my post.

As in you are arguing with someone else while replying to my post.
I was saying exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of.
But here's the tl;dr if you don't want to read back:
>I like that shit but not in m-muh Warhammer

Not even AoS has demigryphs driving around in steamtanks, that was an obvious joke. Personally I would have liked the empire to have more than 8 steamtanks. Not a whole panzer division, but maybe enough to where 1 to 3 showing up to major battles is pretty standard. A few dozen would be enough to fulfill this. Never liked how they failed to innovate on these until the end times, despite having them longer than America has been a country

Yeah, what you wrote is full bullshit. Normal Ogres won't do shit against anything with saves, while S6 ironguts decimate fucking everything. Not to mention Ironguts can take a magic standard, so if you go star you go Ironguts.

Just looking at the latest ETC, the ratio of ironguts core to bull core is 6 to 1.

This. Ironguts are better against dwarfs, warriors of chaos, temple guard, orcs, other ogres, trolls, beastmen, chaos dwarfs, nurgle, life wizard white lions, anything armoured including inner circle knights, silver helms, dragon princes, bretonnia, chariots, dwarf/chaos infantry, any fighter character, any monster...

S6 beats the +3 attacks from additional weapons (or 6 if you are going horde) any days of the week

Take 6 ogres vs silver helm bus for instance.

Bulls: 18 attacks, 9 hits, 6 wounds, 2 dead silver helms after saves
Bulls with ahw: 21 attacks, 10.5 hits, 7 wounds, 2.33 after saves
Ironguts: 18 attacks, 9 hits, 7.5 wounds, 5 dead silver helms after saves

If you go horde and triple the amount you'll see that the guts just annihilate a silver helm bus while they are very much in fighting shape still after the bulls' attacks. Also given that they strike first, they would pretty much beat the normal bulls while lose horribly to the guts.

No idea what augment spells is the guy talking about for Bulls and I2 by the way, Ogres don't have access anything that boosts initiative.

Feel free to continue the 8th talk in its spiritual successor's thread:

This is the thread for 6th edition.

P-please accept this (You), s-senpai! I w-worked very hard on it!

Please die.

So, my group is going to give 9th age a whirl and see if we like it.

So as a Tomb King player, have they improved at all? Or are we still bastard step child level undead?

>9th age

better than post-Daemons 7th

Are Silverhelm buses even worth it? I'm asking because i'm thinking about buying a couple of boxes and using them as mobile character delivery systems in a 3x3

>muh 6th edition
Too bad any new games based on Warhammer from this point on will be based on 8th/end times

As a Skaven player I'm fine with this

Yeah, they are awesome. Filling your core with M9 S5 ASF 2+ troops is obviously quite good, but don't forget to put some princes/nobles and maybe a High Mage there for extra battle res + survivability if you are building a bus.

Actually silver helms worth it every way, 15+ bus, 12 combat, 5-6 chaff units. Blue chip choice in the HE core.

Anyways, here is said list in question. I'm spamming the shit out of Core, 16 warriors, in addition to my GutBus. Note, I don't really know how to Ogre, and my collection is mostly core. Also, the level 4 and Thundertusk have to stay, I have some cool conversions that I made that I insist on using.

Lords-(688)-
- Great Khan (Hoardmaster, Heart-Ripper, Mammoth-Hide Cloak, Dusk Stone, Potion of Swiftness, Ogre Crossbow)-310
- Great Shaman (Rottenjaw, Level 4, Talisman of Greater Shielding, Gem of Fortune, Dispel Scroll, Iron Fist, Path of Butchery)-378

Heroes-(195)-
- Khan (Battle Standard Bearer, Dragonscale Helm, Dragonskin Banner, Ironfist)-195

Core-(1175)-
- 12x Bruisers (Champion, Musician, Veteran Standard Bearer, Banner of Speed)-551
- 8x Warriors (Heavy Armour, Iron Fists, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer)-312
- 8x Warriors (Heavy Armour, Iron Fists, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer)-312

Special-(250)-
- 3x Bombardiers (Musician)-130
- 1x Sabretooth Tiger-40
- 1x Sabretooth Tiger-40
- 1x Sabretooth Tiger-40

Rare-(190)-
- Frost Mammoth-190

2498/2500

Cool I'll have to make the leap and go for it! So far for mounted options all i have are 10x Reavers and a min unit of Dragon princes and a couple of chariots pretty much everything but the helms

So can any lorefag tell me what that angry moon symbolizes and why it's used by both the Empire and goblins?

its probably morrslieb the giant second moon thats made out of warpstone and is all that remains of at least one of the chaos gates.

Why indeed...

something something mad moon

Morrisleb, the moon made of Warpstone.

It's the origin of Morr, the death god, and the Bad Moon worshipped by Gobbos.

Also, what exactly does it look like when the Curse of da Bad Moon is cast? A floaty green sphere with a face, like in Total War?

This sounds best to me.

Honestly I think it's impossible to say Fantasy is entirely one or the other because it was a setting conceived by tossing together everything and the kitchen sink.

They added historical stuff because they liked it and may have thought it was appealing, but I don't buy for a second that they were actually trying to create cohesive setting. It has been admitted as such that Fantasy's setting was basically something to do with the miniatures they already made.

It's also kind of funny you talk about certain aspects of AoS and seemingly forget all about how the Old Ones used space magic to travel to the Fantasy world and terraform it to suit their needs, to say nothing of the Realm of Chaos as a whole and the effect it and the Winds of Magic had on the Fantasy world.

Could be based on WHFRP

Or its a stated problem they get destroyed about as fast as they can get churned out.
That there's 12 known to have survived multiple battles, and the lore specifically mentions 8 of them while leaving four vague to be Your Dudes.

Fuck yeah.

1d4chan.org/wiki/The_9th_Age

Check the TK changes, even the basic ones are pretty fucking buffing.
Plus we can be Cathay now.

Piss off.

Nah, when they release Warhammer Classic either due to Age failing or them finally realizing they can have multiple games that use the same models in play at once, it'll revert to a mixture of 6e and 8e, plus whatever they feel like grabbing from 9th.

I know bringing up Age of Sigmar is taboo, but its worth a toss out that apparently all the greenskin gods are legit and parts of Gork and Mork. Apparently the Spider God is a small mortal spider that bit Gork and mutated into a gigantic god, and the Bad Moon is apparently a real thing somehow too.

All of those gods survive as long as Gork and Mork do, and they survive as long as there's greenskins. Which nothing, even Chaos, can't fully wipe out.

That's the origin of the world though, and nothing focuses on being inside the Warp.

Our perspective is towns and forests that can be found on a world map, not massive floating space continents.

>At the start of your turn after the death of the Hierophant, you may choose a new Hierophant from your Path of Sand Wizards.
Good start.
>"Underground Ambush" replaces Entombed Beneath The Sands. Functions like the standard Ambush rule, but emerging from the "Underground Point" which is determined when the controlling player chooses any point more than 3 inches away from an enemy and 1/2 inch away from any Impassible Terrain and scatters that point 2d6. The Unit emerges with either the front of the first Rank or the back of the last Rank in contact with the Underground Point. If the Underground Point is on an enemy Unit, the emerging Unit enters into base contact with their front Rank in Close Combat. The emerging Unit counts as having already Charged and cannot Charge again. If the Underground Point ends up somewhere that the model cannot emerge, the Unit remains underground and can try to emerge again next turn.

Its official, they fixed Tomb Kings.

Sorry people actually like fun rules over autismhammer

Oh hush, that meme is stale.

There's more variation there than there was in 8e. Other than the missing named characters, but you can't play those in any tourneys anyway so it doesn't matter.

Plus, the rules are just a rebalancing. You can actually take ANYTHING from 8e you still want to use. Unlike Age, 9e is basically the same system so if you want to field Skrolk or the Sisters of Twilight you can without having to do any work making them fit. You can also use any of the random charts you still feel like using.

No 8th better if you don't play against douche WAAC.

Stupidly inflating core cost to prevent people from taking even 26% of them is ridiculous, also some armies clearly got the shitty end of the stick.

>Plus, the rules are just a rebalancing. You can actually take ANYTHING from 8e you still want to use.

No, be it Chaos, DE, HE, WE, Bretonnia, or any armies that had worthy core troop gotbuttfucked to a single build :
minimal troop, maximal hard hitting unit.
Because all core are REALLY a tax now.
Also, killing a monster kill the rider ? kek.

9th is made by people barely better than GW at making rules. Removing the fun part of 7 & 8, nerfing the core and slapping a "muh community bestest rule" stamp on top of it doesn't cut it.

The only reason people are even considering this as an alternative instead of other replacement system or 7/8 is only because there is a 9 in the name.

>th is made by people barely better than GW at making rules.
...but that means you think 9th is better.

Also, NOBODY in 7e or 8e ever took more than the core tax unless they were Goblins or Skaven flooding the table in minis. Which nobody really did because you'd have to buy that many minis.

>Also, killing a monster kill the rider ? kek.
Hey, saves us having to have more than one model to represent Settra after his chariot tips over or Teclis getting his riding shoes in the mud.

>tfw bought some eternal guard bodies off of ebay to make black guard with

Does anybody have a scan of the assembling instructions, because I have no idea which front portions goes with which cape section.

that's an old idea
i have a few conversions in progress on my table (and several anons too, i believe), and half-complete rules on my phone

I'd more call TES fantasy on cocaine. WFB just never felt that crazy, especially with its background lore. It shouldn't be overstretched.

Before total war I imagined it as the shadow (or the light, depending on the current illumination of the battlefield) overstretching over the unit rather than an actual physical object

>shadow
Of the moon, of course

that's what warhammer is for me, user. i have plenty of better "grounded" settings to choose from. warhammer is all about crazy

hey, slav
nice to see you cater to both sides
now get reported

Kings of War is like a super streamlined version of 6'th edition.

So, /whfb/ what are you currently working on?

I got some Bretonnians waiting for me back home.

For the first time in its existence the /AoSG/ is better than the /whfbg/ because they have the upcoming pointsystem, while all you have is retarded edition wars.
Good riddance.

kek.

>Saying it's low fantasy lore
>Posting the blandest artwork

you do remmeber that the other 98% of the old world that isn't bretonnia/empire is basically TES x1000000 ? raging demons, mountain sized Shaggot older than the world, lizardmen , skavens, undead legions, ogre, etc ?

I'm not saying that WFB is bad or anything. They just don't have the crazy lorewriters that Bethesda has/used to have. No CHIM, no Tribunal of false gods, no events and stories repeating eternally across time, no reality-bending dwarves who managed to deny themselves out of existence and create a metal god that unmakes the very world it walks upon, no robot (who is both the avatar of a god and blessed by his exact opposite god) being sent back to the past to defeat the sons of a god from the last kalpa, no entire people managing to slice their way from the last cycle of creation into the next, no hints at some mystical purpose to all of life and mortality...

I mean, WFB isn't bad. It's honestly really fucking cool, especially since so much of its stuff is obvious and right there and you can put it on the tabletop. But it's not anywhere near cocaine levels of craziness of TES.

Rebasing my 6th Vampires to round Bases to play A Fantastic Saga and Dragon Rampant. They are the first models I got and working with them again is the best hobby experience I had in years. Also bought some more 6th ed skellis and am now aiming for some ghouls. I'm trying to decise between heresey minitires ghouls, 6th ed from ebay or 4th ed from ebay. Already own 8 ghouls from 6th ed and i plan on getting 24.
Next step will zombies so I'll have at least 48. Kind of ironic how I quit during 8th because I didn't feel like buying/building/painting hordes, but now I go for 48 skellingtins with spear/shield, 24 with bows and at least that many zombies + grave guard and other elites. Having them on round bases is just glorious.

Full action seems more logical

That doesn't change the fact that Fantasy had plenty of shit in it that would and arguably is getting mocked in AoS, but was either squirreled away or conveniently ignored in favor of the narrative that Fantasy was all illiterate peasants and HFY.

Seriously, when one of the greatest criticisms that is being lobbed at the current GW Design Studio is that the setting is now being curated by people who were mostly fans of GW's games, the inspiration from AoS had to have come from somewhere close to home.

This is part of it too, people focus so much on the Old World that they forget that there is an entire other world out there that isn't exactly grounded or normal, especially the farther north you go.

Yup, the Elder Scrolls has a very unconventional subtext in what appears to be a generic fantasy world at first glance.

>in favor of the narrative that Fantasy was all illiterate peasants and HFY.
I have litteraly never heard a description of WHFB that false.

Warhammer isn't just the empire, why is this so hard for people to realize? We could easily say its about any of the other factions

Warhammer isn't about huge gun lines and men defending their homes and the occasional wizard. It's a setting where the average reptilian takes up his weapons and fights against the horrors of the world, using only the skills that were programmed into him at creation. Its about legions of fearless dinomen holding the line against endless swarms of daemons for years at a time. It's about arboreal hells where even the mists can come to life and attack you. It's a setting where mountain sized pyramids dominate vast, ancient cities that put the greatest works of all lesser races to shame. It's a setting where giant frog men can shift continents and blow up meteors with their minds, where dinosaurs carry giant laser beams and eldritch snake generators into battle. This is what Warhammer is about, people need to take their HFY bullshit elsewhere

WHFB gets crazy once you start taking a closer look at the Orcs and Goblins. The human realms has a lot of quirks to them. It's just that the ordinary humans do ordinary things in between the crazy stuff happening and don't engage in a whole lot of crazy like the heroes of the setting does.

>no entire people managing to slice their way from the last cycle of creation into the next, no hints at some mystical purpose to all of life and mortality...
For the first you can have ward's lore about the elves in the ens times I know, I know, end times and all that, for the second you have to remember that the old ones uplifted the races for a very specific project, we just don't have the full vision of it but it likely involves contrasting chaos and becoming self-made godly beings.

The peasant part may be a stretch, but when some people talk about the Empire (Particular in relation to 40k), there is a very HFY undertone to their words. They're also usually the same people who don't look beyond the Old World.

Yeah, no, faggot.

Go back to /aosg/

The Empire is the heart of the Old World and the most prominent human realm. It was basically what the Imperium is to 40k; a point of origin that everything else revolves around. However, the Empire is not nearly as intrusive as the Imperium is and all the other factions history are not defined by them, but they has been important to a lot of the other factions fluff.

All of that sounds dangerously AoS.

I don't look beyond the Old World a whole lot because I don't find what goes on outside of it to be interesting.

There is no hfy in whfb famalam. The only point where I would say there is a little hfy, is the empire state troops. But even then they rely on gods luck machines and allies and orks.

Don't forget about the knights who are the brave defenders of humanity.

Maybe the elite ones which ride with the Karl or Valten. But the rest are just simple knights who can barley kill an ork on their own. Nothing hfy desu.

>all this whining about HFY

Guys, HFY only becomes faggotry when when people use it in a context that makes everything else that is non-human look retarded and it's presented like some kind of propaganda story.

HFY is cool when humans are presented as an underdog that fights against the odds. Anything else is vanity.

So damn defensive that you can't even handle criticism of some people who play the game.

I think that, besides probably the AoS general, this may be the only miniature game general on Veeky Forums that automatically assumes anyone with a criticism immediately comes from a rival.

I wasn't saying that HFY necessarily existed in Fantasy, but that didn't stop some people from viewing it that way. It's like the Imperium and Imperial Guard in 40k, the former of which you're arguably supposed to detest as an example of the worst humanity has to offer.

>So damn defensive
He's a troll