Making a weird city/megadungeon setting, and I'm trying to create a currency system that is deliberately obtuse...

>a currency system that is deliberately obtuse, confusing, circular, and illogical as possible
You fucking monster.
I like it.

Give names to combinations of coins.

>Six shillings is a north river
>A groat and a sixpence is a tankard
>Two groats is a magic sword

Then make some combinations considered lucky or unlucky, or portentious.

One kind of 'coin' is a piece harvested from a creature.

Another actually IS a tiny creature.

>said living coin's diet consists of other coins

All of the coins are nigh identical with only a series of notches along the rim and the exact indistinguishable to the human eye mixture of metals used to create it to distinguish between each different obtuse value.

In this setting, attempting to short change or using the wrong coins by accident is a serious crime heavily frowned upon legally and socially.

Will gold, silver and diamonds only have value in industrial applications?

Like the party finds a cache of gold bars and think they're rich, when they might just as well carry around copper or titanium.

I came here to post this.

Basically you are encrypting the coin value.

If you want to make it completely inscrutable, the values of each coin should be re-determined at least daily by a one-time pad.

If you want it to be less cumbersome, you feed the date and maybe some other information into an algorithm which pumps out pseudo-random numbers.

>1 Shilling equals two Tanners, but only on Tuesdays
>12 Eightpence is 4 Schilling while the waning moon is in the constellation of Taurus
>A Bobnog is an amount of Tanners equal to the decimeter the current high tide is above the annual average, but only while your left foot is in a bucket full of water, at least up to your ankle but only up to three quarters of your right pinky below the edge, and whith a mink in your right hand.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowry#Human_use

>you can only pay with a Tanner if you also pay 4 groats. Then the shopkeeper has to pay you a shilling with your change.

Now THAT'S evil.

>giving such coin is the world's equivalent of having a debt
>the coin's giver doesn't win anything it just means that its owner won't win that much money
>it's called a wife

>A Bobnog is a slang term for a counterfeit coin, usually made of wood.
>Due to their widespread use and confusion with the Bobhog, they are an officially recognized substitute
>For the Eightpence.

It's actually called a gift economy.
It's pretty interesting.

>All rules stated here apply, but there is a complicated system when which rule has priority

Which rule has priority depends on a game of riddles between the merchant and the buyer.

Dang it, thanks for the reading material.

>The government has ruled that a human tooth may be substituted for 15 Groats
>Two days later, they amended the law, limiting the substitution to once per transaction.

Each lord mints their own currency and the value changes with their position in Court, but also depending on which faction is in charge at the time. So during war the militaries steel groats are worth twice that of the artists, but on festival days the copper Jesters are the only legal tender and anyone caught trying to use say dulled pieces of the royal harems bronze mistress minting would be locked in the stocks and pied for an eight pence Jester a piece until they had exactly ten times the value of the coinage they used from 6 months ago when it would have been legal tender. They have to count as they are pied and call it out when the amount is reached or else they have to start over.

Actually doing so has made some men rich for a day as they are allowed to keep all the Jesters collected.

You can buy 3 pies for a tanner, or a rotted apple for a sixpenny.

The Emperors "Imperials" is the only minting to have a constant set value in relation to all the others, but he refuses to tell anyone what it actually is and the penalty for shortchanging him or his coinage is death for weakening the dollar and thereby srealign from the state. Ambitious nobles have tried hiring mathematicians to track his purchases to pin down the exchange rate, but the tend to resign early and pay the forfeit of their contract with shiny new Imperials.

Enthusiastic hobbiest statisticians with no noble patron or position tend to end up dead.

The Queen has her own mint "Rosies" which cannot be accepted as payment for any goods or services and only given as gifts between close friends, stalwart companions, lovers separated by distance, station, or obligations as a sign of truly valuing them beyond any price.

Roses can however be exchanged for Imperials at a strict 1 to 1 rate, however it's considered to be a complete abandonment of any vows or feelings towards the person who gave it to you and people think it's a complete dick move.

Then there are the low coins minted for merchants who trade outside the kingdom and they are specific weights of precious metals but are considered to be the property of the nation and therefore not truly owned by anybody except the person who happens to be holding them. The low coins are therefore quite risky to have a lot of.

Groats cannot be used as currency and aren't accepted at shops, though you might get your change in Groats. To pay with them you must take them to a designated Currency Office which will exchange them to Tanners.

>Tanners can't be exchanged in a Currency office

Ooh, this could be good even for a serious campaign.

You utter fuckers.

>A shilling, a sixpenny and a number of groats corresponding to the how many months the month is away from winter solstice constitutes a snowfall.

If the payer can roll the sixpence further than the distance of the groats lined up together, then he pays a groat. If he can't, he pays as many shillings as can fit in a jar which has a volume equal to that of a volume of water with weight equal to the weight of ten tanners.

...

Each mint/noble houses/merchant house wastes vast amounts of resources smelting their competitor's coins. They actively try to flood the market with their own "brand" to establish a monopoly. This never happens, but some merchants will not take certain sorts of coins, regardless of value because "we don't like X house's money here".

I believe unless draconian measures are enforced to make people use a convoluted system that changes on a multifactorial situational or seasonal basis, chances are people will just use base metal weight and barter to trade

Careful, user. If you make it too complicated you'll never be able to explain it and will fuck it up trying to apply it. Nothing makes me roll my eyes like a DM who tries to inflict something complicated and frustrating on us, then gets confused and frustrated and gets it wrong. Well, except when they then try to save face by pretending they didn't, and there was actually another rule that we weren't aware of.

>Roses can however be exchanged for Imperials at a strict 1 to 1 rate, however it's considered to be a complete abandonment of any vows or feelings towards the person who gave it to you and people think it's a complete dick move.

This is legitimately unbelievable. I find it impossible to believe the Queen has her own personal coins that are only used for Valentine's Day and yet, legal tender so long as you have bad blood towards the person who gave them? That's beyond stupid.

>Then there are the low coins minted for merchants who trade outside the kingdom and they are specific weights of precious metals but are considered to be the property of the nation and therefore not truly owned by anybody except the person who happens to be holding them. The low coins are therefore quite risky to have a lot of.

You really don't understand how economics work, do you?

I think that's exactly his purpose

One must posses a license to use more units of currency in a single exchange than ones age in years, unless buying something for someone else, in which case the maximum amount is the average of yours and the person you are buying for's age.

> You plan a heist to steal a bunch of low coins since you were broke after three days in this kingdom

> Turns out the box was full of weird red coins with the Queens face on them

> Get thrown out of a tavern when trying to spend one for a room.

> Prostitute outside spits in your face and starts calling you names accusing you of making fun of her when you try to ask her if she knows anything about them.

> Finally, desperate to get something out of this you go to the money changer who originally screwed you with his fold out charts that were . . . Unexpected in size and demand he change them all at once for you.

> He goes pale with shock and says he will have to get the supervising noble to handle such a large transaction, and any comfort you could possibly think of needing will be provided while they prepare.

> Party is whisked away to an opulent townhouse for visiting nobles. Courtesan wait on them and top quality booze and food is provided as courtesy to a guest of the bank. Party ends up hammered for three days and sexed up by a prime factor of that.

> Come back to the bank and are given gaudy golden discs with purpled garnets the size of grains of sand embedded along the edges and a noble base relief etched with the clear skill of a master artisan. Nigga what the fuck. There's as many of these as there were the other coins.

> Flip a coin to the bank manager as a tip and he faints, immediately swarmed by horny women with booze from the guest house.

>The next day they're all gone with a coin or two each, whatever you've got a bunch, and suddenly the Queens Guard is knocking down the door saying she'd like to meet the man who valued money over so much of the love she gives to her citizens.

> Wow. Those are REALLY Sharpe swords.

And now your party has to track down where the coins came from or have given the most grevious possible insult to the Queen and the Emperor both. Without losing all their cash again.

There should be slightly different names for slightly different amounts. Like a North River is actually slightly different from a Nor'River.

And you really don't understand the point of this thread.

>slightly different amounts

Make it -extremely- different amounts just to fuck up with the players

Wut

Roses are used whenever, and are supposed to be exchanged for the Emperors coin as the ultimate abandonment of who you value most. It's like fucking your wife's most hated rival in your front yard while calling her worthless.

They are never legal tender unless they're exchanged for an Imperial, so to get one in the first place you've already spent a coin that you can claim any value for - so long as you think the Emperor will back you up if the person files a complaint.

Or you can be given one by the Queen herself who rules the Emperors Harem. That usually is done for Maidens of May at spring festivals festivals and publicity events etc.

The point regarding the low coins is that the coins are only worth the metals themselves and not really tied to the internal economy of the Empire. I mean, you could steal them to melt down and mint into proper coins backed by current events and authority if you want.

I don't think you have very good reading comprehension. The value of the coins change thematically, some tied to festivals, others to concepts, or are backed by ascended factions who are directing the government under the auspices and with the blessing of the Emperor, or are minted by individuals who hold positions with authority of their own independent of which court factions are currently holding favour.

The coins are both money, politics, fashion and language all rolled into one and the transactions are as much a discussion as they are an exchange of promissory notes.

low coins make perfect sense because they are

>backed by themselves
>minted by an authority
>intrinsically valuable

Most tradesmen adopt extremely heavy accents during working hours, in order to avoid prices being haggled down too low.

Sorry. That is supposed to be "Roses are used NEVER." Nobody will accept a Rose as tender for goods or services and would be 100% offended if you tried. They can be given as a gift, or exchanged for Imperials. But then you've pretty much publicly traded a token of someones love that is priceless for a set amount of money. Not a known amount, but everyone knows an Imperial has a set value, and by definition that means it's worth infinitely less than a Rose.

Only the Queen can trade Roses for Imperials, because her love for the people of the Empire is as endless as her love for the Emperor whose harem she rules. So for her, the Imperial is really just the least anyone can do to repay her endless love. For her, the Imperial of her Emperor is the one thing that is equal to her love and she treasures each one as a reminder of him.

And for one who gives her the only love that can match her own, what else could she give in return but a Rose of her love.

I am also really fucking high here.

>Shops servicing the poor, like bakers and fruit stalls, often accept coins cut in half as being half the value of the coin. However, these half-coins are not officially backed. The rule of etiquette is that you shouldn't give a half-coin in change unless the payer paid with a half-coin.

>be at local crab shoppe
>go to purchase a Nor'River worth of crablegs
>shopkeep insists he wont take groats
>i forgot it was a full moon, left all my sixpennies at home
>go to local currency exchange, trade my groats for tanners paying my last shillings for exchange fee
>attept to re-enter trade district
>mfw they wont take tanners
>mfw I'm taxed a tankard for a tanner substitution fee

DnD actually calls that a goldbug. It IS a living creature, but it works.
>What appears to be a small gold coin secretly has six stubby legs and a small beak which it uses to eat other gold pieces.
> ... Designed to appear like a generic gold coin itself, the hungry goldbug is actually a vermin which eats precious metals (primarily copper, silver, gold, and platinum) which it coats its shell with and uses to spawn more of its kind.
and of course
>Goldbugs slowly adapt to the type of coins they eat. After only one or two generations, future goldbugs will match the pile of coins they have fed on.
Is this our living coin?

Can you see it being used as actual legal tender instead of just something DMs throw at players to fuck with them?

I've been thinking about a very large series of missions which at first seem to be a simple "raid a dragon's dungeon and take its hoard" thing, with amongst other elements, the hoard itself is both unbelievably, unbelievably valuable (something more in line for total party wealth in five levels over) and has enough complications to set them for five levels over.

>goldbugs
>coin mimics
>everything mimics
>cloakers
>living armor
>those swords that are really tentacle monsters
>haunted stuff
>many different orders of thieves and bandit companies after the PCs

Basically a cash advance.

There's really no problem making towns themselves into what are essentially dungeons filled with totally insane, impractical people.

I've, in fact, contemplated campaign settings where entire cities were slowly taken over by hordes of vampires, mimics, house mimics, castle mimics, living statues, changelings, doppelgangers, animated objects, gargoyles, water elementals (that live as fountain etc), mockery bugs, and so forth that at first glance appear to be towns full of incomprehensible foreigners and maybe some confused, diehard surviving rogue types who think that they are merely criminal immigrants but are in reality the only normal people.

Some currency may have simply the same name, but a slightly (or completely) different value. It do happens with units in the real world (see short and long tons for example). Or there have been a devaluation (or a revaluation) and there's the old shillings and the new shillings.

Some places would explicit which currency they mean (an apple - 2 short shillings) and other would not (an apple - 2 shillings) and expect you to know because they're in the trade district and the trade district have always used the short shillings.

In this society, yes actually. There are things horribly wrong here.
I'd play that. Make a relatively easy quest out of actually getting there though, and then the hard and long part is to get all the treasure safely out and cleared.

This is going to end up with a player or three buying some stuff that should have been waaay out of their league because not even the DM realised what the actual cost ended up being before running the calculations.

With an economy like that, not even the merchants know how to settle a value in what they're selling

Every item that's bought has another hidden value. Which is so you can represent to yourself how much it costs.

And all the denominations of coins are then determined from this value, but the exchange ratio is fucked up so everything always costs in different coinage.

For example, you have a dagger that has a Value of 25, which is pretty normal. But it would cost 2 Groats, 3 Shillings, Two Bobhog, etc. Never have anything cost just 1 Groat, or just 5 Shillings.

Point is, always use as many coins necessary to buy anything. So they have more calculations to do to determine how much something really costs. For you it would be easy, use an Excel sheet and just type shit in.

>all these complicated rules when you can easily fuck up the system by using fractions
Just make some of the coins have obtuse often improper or mixed fractions as value that don't add up easily. Like:
>a sevensixpence is 7/6 of a sixpence
>a dollar 2 and 3/4 of a shilling

Hell, we can get even more stupid by making coins have irrational or even imaginary values.

>even poor-quality metalworkers demand to be payed in eightpences in keeping with tradition
>most of them don't actually charge an eightpence, so they give lots of change on all their orders
>then they buy a token product from the customer, like an apple, for an eightpence
>then the customer gives them back as change the change they recieved

Yeah, everything but the hoard would be relatively easy, or at least quick.

In general, besides humor factor, D&D's general setup makes me think of a heist movie, and often in those the problem isn't getting the $$$, its getting away with it, hiding it, keeping it...

There is a coin called the Twogroat. It is of course not worth two groats. Rather it comes about because six years ago, a forger began stamping fake "two groat" coins containing less proper metal than two groats are worth and pocketing the difference. However, the coin proved popular for the many varied designs (resulting from the forger changing obverse every week so that one week's production could not be compared to the next) and after the forger's mysterious disappearance, the twogroat was eventually declared an official coin determined to be worth 20 shillings based on metal content.

This whole story is complicated further by 1) a second round of forgeries of new fake twogroats have begun appearing recently, and 2) some runs of original fake twogroats, while technically legal tender, are also sought as collectibles. Numismatists will pay 5-10 groats for certain original fake twogroats.

Keep adding in currencies. Old ones that haven't yet gone out of circulation but aren't made anymore. Let the players play for a few sessions and then someone pays them in Double Dragons, and if they try to beat up the merchant he'll just say that it's an old coin but still worth their weight in Silver Crowns. If they ask what Silver Crowns are, well, the answer is simple, they're like Gold Crowns, and their worth depends on their size compared to the Gold Crown. Large gold crown = 3 Large Silver Crowns, Medium Gold Crown = 12 Medium Silver Crowns, etc.

Never stop OP.

Across the City are secret enclaves of shops and restaurants that accept peculiar printed papers as their own private form of currency. This currency actually uses sane denominations and is always worth the same amount no matter what other monetary madness is going on in the city at the time. However, all those that use this paper money are in fact part of political movement that wishes to overthrow the Emperor/Lords/What-Have-You, and printed on each bill are various bits of the movement's manifesto and pictures if their martyrs.

Using this currency is much easier than the alternatives, but being caught with it is grounds for arrest and possibly imprisonment.

>the paper is customarily folded into origami animals, with different animals being used for different denominations

Bobhogs come in three flavors from different mints. Officially, all of them are legal tender and valued at par.

In practice, Black Bobhogs are the most accepted as valid everywhere, New Bobhogs are shunned by the people of insert-district-here due to their tendency to deform slightly under pressure (although this is only due to people there abusing their coins more + confirmation bias, not inferior metallurgy) and so trade at a slightly reduced rate on the black market, and Royal Bobhogs are all unique by having a tiny number stamped on them, diffferent for each one. It's unknown what these numbers do, and no inspection or divination reveals any function, but people are suspicious and prefer Black Bobhogs nonetheless.

The mints were established in that order and have all been printing for a while, so it's possible to get old New Bobhogs.

Possible rumors the players might hear about what's up with the Royal Bobhogs:
-the court magician can use the numbers to see everyone who's ever handled a specific one
-the crown has been counting their use and is going to reduce their value
-odd-numbered Royal Bobhogs disappear if left alone for too long
-two Royal Bobhogs with the same number will merge together into a single coin if they come into contact

I actually have something similar in my setting. Basically it's a city of wizards that have enchanted glowing paper money in a world where everyone else uses coins of various denominations. Only difference is the paper money is in base 12. Each bill of a certain value glows faintly in a specific color so everyone can easily tell them apart. Also they're a bit oversized compared to today's money in imitation of some older irl paper currencies. Don't know why I'm bothering to type this all, I guess you can call it my two cents.

That's actually pretty neat. Could make for some cool sidequests.

>All these fucked up currencies.
My character's reaction would probably be to leave the country on a stolen boat.

From what I can gather from the OP, a Shilling is equal to a Sixpence and the Tanner is the lowest form of currency
If we gave the Tanner a value of 1, then we can assume the following:
Shilling = 1.5
Groat = 18
Bobhog = 3
Tanner = 1
Eightpence = 4
Unless my math is wrong, that is.

>Give names to combinations of coins.
>Six shillings is a north river

I second this idea. Also some combinations are named for an item or job or something that's changed in value over time, so now "a bucket" (=1 groat, 1 eightpence, 2 tanners), doesn't buy you one bucket of whatever it is any more. Old people complain about how "back in MY day, one bucket o' [thing] cost ya a bucket and that was it! Now you'll be lucky to pay a bucket and a tanner and a half."

>They are never legal tender unless they're exchanged for an Imperial, so to get one in the first place you've already spent a coin that you can claim any value for - so long as you think the Emperor will back you up if the person files a complaint.

I know that this thread is all about retarded currency, but this is fucking stupid. Why would anyone exchange Roses for Imperials? What does it benefit a bank or a merchant or a random ass Joe to trade his Imperials for Roses? Congrats, you now have a bag full of Super Special Valentine's Day Dollars that aren't usable at all.

Oh, what's that? I can trade these Roses I just acquired for Imperials? Then why bother trading in the first fucking place?

Lay off the weed and exercise your brain for once.

Don't forget that you can trade 3 Tanners for 32 Tanners though it would probably be a ridiculously silly and time-consuming process and need several legal loopholes.

Everliq is a common substance on your world.
Everliq prevents heating from diffusing from liquid metal.

When you melt shillings, and tanners, you get an alloy called kokuroi.

five liters of kokuroi equals an imperial gallon of liquid bobhog.

No you can't. That trick relies on the assumption that a sixpenny is three-quarters of an eightpence, which is not in the rules as written.
It might seem like a sensible assumption, sure, but this currency system is explicitly not supposed to be sensible, so you can't assume that sixpenny and eightpence are 6 and 8 of the same thing.

You also need to figure out if they're New Tanners, Old Tanners, Ol' Tanners, or just regular plain Tanners, as they each have very slightly different values.

They all look the same though.

By convention, the more similar the coinage is to the goods or services being purchased, the more favorable the price. Royal groats have a sailing ship minted on the obverse, so are better for purchasing fish than, say, Millers' groats. Smiths' eightpence, featuring an armored knight ahorse, might seem advantageous for purchasing an oxcart wheel - an iron coin portraying transportation for an iron-rimmed object used for transport. However, copper tanners have a hole punched in the middle making them literally a wheel, thereby getting most favorable exchange. (Incidentally, copper tanners must always be strung on a leather thong to represent the Tanners' Guild; no member of ANY guild will accept loose tanners from a coinpurse.)

Even better if you cram as many in there as you can. Like a tanner is 3 sixpence and 2 shillings, and a sixpence is equal to 7.2 shillings or something

>a Groat and 3 Sixpennies get you 15 Tanners

Why is that a big deal

Just kill the bugs, and it's regular coins again, big whoop

The bug will devour an unobservant party's funds before they realize it isn't a normal coin.

Groats are the size of cartwheels and a Tanner is an actual tanner you drag around by a collar.

Also 128 tanners and 1 Bobhog=1,33 groats

>a value paid in bugnums, squared, has the equivalent of the sum of the squares of two integer amounts of intercoins and demidollars, with the amount of intercoins being the lesser of the two latter

I get that but the gold doesn't just vanish, the gold is turned into more gold bugs, which are made of gold. IE, as long as the bag doesn't have a hole for them to crawl out of, you still have all your gold, all you have to do it kill the bugs and burn their organic matter out of the coins/shells

This reminds me of these AD&D monsters called auromvoraxes, dunno if they're in 3rd or 4th, they're golden hexabadgers aka golden gorgers. They can smell and eat gold, they then process it into very heavy golden fur, giving them great defenses for what is essentially an animal.

If its soft enough I can imagine this sort of golden fur being worth at least as much as the gold that took to make it, even though some would be lost in the process.

You could raise them and harvest them to make golden fur clothing.

Yeah that's what I was thinking.

You would probably want to use them as fine gold threads as accent on clothes, although demigods, solars, demon lords and so forth may be strong and vainglorious enough to not give a fuck. Or they may just have a low enough gold content to be pretty and not to be ultra heavy.

Not the user who came up with the idea, but I like it. You can get away with a lot under the guise of culture.

Invent some story about the Empress and the Economist, where the Empress was aghast at the Economist's boast that all things could be valued in coin. Upon further reflection the Empress decided to mint coins of her own, that could be fairly said to reflect the value of a bond between two people. Thus the Rose; to value each other, and to serve as a reminder to the money mad that to spend your intimate bonds is to destroy them.

You could have the empress act as a central bank, she'll always redeem Roses for Imperials.

Or go back to Gift economy. You give someone a Rose who isn't a romantic partner or close friend you're giving them something that probably works as a dowry slash wedding ring. Motherfucker OWES you, and everyone will know it.

If it's the apple harvest, then 4 Tanners = 1 Groat per pound of Shillings you can stack atop an apple no larger than five bobhogs laid together.

There's also another coin, the crown. They're not legal tender for private purchases, but they can be exchanged for normal currency at the royal treasury. They're flat and square with small round magnets in the center in order to fill up a chest completely and without shifting around and have one rounded corner to make it easier to pry one out.

Crowns have a set exchange rate with normal currency, determined when they're first minted. There's a dozen different kinds of crowns (gold, silver, pewter, wood, chocolate, etc), and each one has a wildly different exchange rate from the others, because the values of the normal coins change over time and new kinds of crowns are only minted when the exchange rate of the current crown is no longer representative of the current exchange rate.

Also, because crowns are rare and not used for personal debts, taking one to the treasury for exchange when you're not a noble implies that you stole it. You have to find a fence in order to redeem that chest of crowns you found in the dungeon, and fences will try to cheat you on their value all the time.

For example, the marble crown is nearly worthless because it was minted during the Great Shilling Shortage, over 700 years ago. Despite having very favorable exchange rates in other coins, it's still only worth 1 shilling, which is all the treasury will give for it. Meanwhile, the onyx crown is worth a minimum of 200 groats (in tanners). Fences are the only people (apart from the royal treasury) that know the value of the various crowns, and they will all lie to you about how much they're worth. That means shopping around can get you a better deal, but not too much better unless you can find out the actual exchange rates. Also, if you get a reputation for shopping around, fences will refuse to due business with you, in order to prevent unprofitable price wars.

OP, can you give us some idea of which ideas you like so far and what your accumulated currency system draft looks like so we can see in which directions we should keep gnurling it?

Decimalisation was a mistake.

react angery

This thread is glorious!

How about using combinations of coins in sequence like a game of cards? This is referred to as haggling.

You should have carried an anvil.

It is improper to pay a lady with Bobhogs, that is as long as you are paying with less than 9 Bobhogs. So you are sometimes supposed to pay more, because of common etiquette.

genius