Is there a real equivalent to this for your average IG infantry squad? A smallish squad support and suppression weapon...

Is there a real equivalent to this for your average IG infantry squad? A smallish squad support and suppression weapon? Heavy Bolters are gigantic and even a heavy stubber looks like it'd be more than a two-man team could be expected to operate on their own. Would it be unreasonable to imagine the IG would basically convert a hellgun to this sort of purpose?

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That weapon would be considered a heavy stubber in 40k.

40k weapons are oversized compared to a mini. Illustrations in the wargame and in the RPGs show weapons proportionally smaller, with more realistic scales.
is right, that would be a heavy stubber.

>captcha, you're not supposed to drink soy sauce alone

Ok, my mistake then. When I imagine a Heavy Stubber I'm thinking of a M2 .50 cal or a KPV. Something that needs a mount to really be fired.

So it's feasible then that you could build a squad around supporting a pair of heavy stubbers interlocking their fire? Awesome, got a new Regiment idea.

Heavy Stubbers are a pretty broad selection of guns from light support weapons to massive emplacement weapons.

source - Dark heresy

Basically, weapons in 40k are as variable as you like because no two forgeworlds will be working from all the same blueprints.

Great.

Basically started building a regiment of light infantry off the idea of the WW2 german infantry squad. 4 guys man and keep a heavy stubber fed, acting as the primary firepower of the squad. 5 guys with lasguns act as a pinning and distracting force as the stubber sets up. sergeant directs these two parts of the squad to optimal positions while wielding a grenade launcher for supporting their fire. The regiment has no real vehicle support so it relies on horses and draft animals to carry supplies. Soldiers form a strong attachment to these animals and are always saddened and angered by their loss.

Working on a specific grenadier arm now, probably storm troopers or something.

Machine gun crews are 2 men, hombre.
The other 2 should have a mortar, lose the grenade launcher, and add a sniper rifle/ longlas

Gunner, Feeder, other two carry ammo and keep a watch over the MG since they tend to operate a fair bit away from the rifleman squad. Not opposed to someone with a longlas, though.

Tell your guardsmen to grow a pair and be like Sergeant Harker.

The two guys with them aren't part of the 'MG crew', they're riflemen. Worth noting.

But the grenade launcher isn't an infantry weapon most of the time. Mortar teams on the other hand are pretty much a constant of WW2 era small unit combat, and they're damn useful. That's my major reason for the suggestion, it fits better and will function better as a part of the whole unit.

Heavy Stubbers. IIRC IA said the kind used on Vraks weighed 8kg vs. the MG-3 being 10kg IRL

suppressive fire is less relevant in 40k than it is in reality though, lessening the importance of mass-saturation machine guns. Orks, Crons, and Nids won't give a damn, Eldar will just dance around it, Tau will outshoot you, and Marines can withstand it pretty easily. Could be useful for planetary rebellions at least.

Alright then, how about this?

3 Heavy Stubbers, each with a gunner, feeder, and over-watch (at least one with a longlas)

6 riflemen with lasguns

1 sergeant

The machine gun isn't for suppression, it's the main force of firepower. The riflemen suppress while the machine guns set up in the best positions to get interlocking fire that the enemy hopefully can't avoid or move out of before it's too late.

A multilaser or heavy stubber

So squad size of 16 composed of 4 to 5 Fire Teams? Sounds good.
Riflemen pin a foe when the MG's are moving to posistion, MG's open up and take down the target, DM provides overwatch for the MG team, and the Sergeant provides overall tactical direction. Surprised it's taken this long for someone to adapt WWII German infantry tactics to 40k.

Could you use a mg-42 from warlord games bolt action line for the conversion?

Sounds good in theory. Might be in trouble if you can't manage to pin though.

Too big, no fire teams back then. German zug was always a rifle squad with a MG team. Early war squads were bigger with more rifleman harder to maneuver.


Here is a late war Getman infantry platoon.

The platoon would have three squads each with:

1 squad leader, usually a NCO armed with an MP40.
1 assistant leader armed with an MP40.
1 soldier armed with an MP40.
4 soldiers armed with rifles.
1 machine gunner with an MG42.
1 assistant gunner with a rifle.

German infantry tactics seem to be really unliked, honestly. Doesn't seem like their encounter with them in WW2 made the british or US really try to adopt them, despite how much trouble it gave them. But that's more a discussion for /k/.

To be fair, the IG is ALWAYS fucked whenever something they're fighting wothstands their fire.....which is everything, basically. This just gives that much more firepower at the cost of a larger squad size and increased logistics.

Speaking of, bow much of a logistical headache would supplying 2-3 Heavy Stubbers pe4 squad be for the IG? I imagine the quarter sergeants and Munitorum normally barely even have to think about squads since lasguns barely need anything, but with a stubber or two a squad collapse their shitty system? Fuck, would the horses? Might have these guys list themselves as dragoons just to get to supplies they need.

>Inb4 Massive laughter because of swedish cucks
The swedish Kustjägarna is one of the few, if not the only force in the world who classify the 40mm Mk 19 Grenade launcher (88kg) and the M2 Browning(38kg) as "man-portable" infantry support weapons

Really two guys with SMGs? Wouldn't that reduce their firepower outside of urban warfare ranges? I thought militaries before WW2 didn't really expect city fighting as a primary zone of combat.

Also, what would even be the IG equivalent of an SMG? A lascarbine? A lasgun on burst fire?

Either a cut down lascarbine or an upsized laspistol.

>>Really two guys with SMGs? Wouldn't that reduce their firepower outside of urban warfare ranges? I thought militaries before WW2 didn't really expect city fighting as a primary zone of combat.
Most of your ranged firepower is in the MG42. A couple less bolt action rifles isn't that much of a disadvantage.

Light stub gun. You mean.

A .50 browning m2 would be considered a primitive stubber.

The Vraksian Renegades use what pretty much is an MG42 in space, and it's classified under the rules as a Heavy Stubber.

The Krieg themselves use an upsized Bren gun, and that too is counted as a Heavy Stubber.

What caliber do you think the Krieg's Heavy Stubber is? I've been going with it being in the 7-8mm, but a friend argued that it looks like it could be a 20mm round.

Not him, but I have always thought of them as 10-20 mm. Then again, I've always thought of heavy stubbers as more M2 than mg42

GW can't into realism

Just play Star Grunt or something if you want belivable infantry tactics.

Still the range difference is immense.

>"Hans, vat do you do?"
"I fire ze machinegewehr and cut down our enemies like hay."
>"Das gut, and you Jan?"
"I holds ze rifle and keeps ze enemy heads down."
>"Ja, ja, very gut. What about you, Weber?"
"I keeps my kopf down and if ze enemy gets within a hundred meters I shoots them a bunch."
>"Oh......Hans, vat is ze range of your machinegewehr?"
"I can threaten a squad at a thousand meters, under best circumstance."
>"Vat I thought. You fuckings suck, Weber"

Those would be heavy stubbers, too. Heavy stubbers are anything from a SAW or LMG on up until you get to autocannons, which would start around the equivalent of 20mm guns. I'm not actually sure what the canon (npi) scale is for autocannons in 40k is though, and it's possible they're rapid fire equivalents of modern day large bore tank guns and recoilless rifles.

I've never come across that term, but a light stubgun implies to me that it would be smaller than a normal stubgun or autogun, which is the equivalent of an M16 or AK. So a light stubgun would probably be an SMG or pistol-caliber carbine.

IIRC Autopistols are considered to include SMGs

No.

If the heavy stubbers were replaced with multilasers it wouldn't be difficult at all. IG tends to not use ballistic weapons (save bolters and grenade launchers) for rank-and-file guardsmen.

SMGs were quite useful in early 20th century wars, since most rifles were bolt action. You might have had reduced range and firepower, but you made it up well enough with the rate of fire and able to fire more than 5-10 rounds before reload.

I seem to remember the Soviets liking the SMG so much they had whole platoons armed with them.

>what would even be the IG equivalent of an SMG

Autopistol.

Since IG sergeants can't have lasguns, and I didn't much care for the WW1 officer with a sidearm look (was going for a more scifi look), I ended up modelling their laspistols as like carbines. Folding stock, vertical grip, etc.

>source

Right, you don't have one.
>every squad armed with an mg42
Some kiddie has been playing too many video games.

LMGs were the cornerstone of German rifle squads in WW2. Just look it up

plenty of squads armed with mg34 and even mg15. just doing my part to dispell the mg42 myth

I can't imagine it would be anymore difficult than keeping all those squad-level flamers fuelled, considering the prodigious amounts of jellied gas those go through for even just a few seconds of firing.

Wasn't so hard to find his source, though:
avalanchepress.com/BehindCounters2.php

Some more:
dererstezug.com/TacticalPhilosophies.htm

>squad was divided into a 3-man MG team and a 5-man rifle team
>German squad leaders actually employed their whole formation as a single, large, MG team.
>The important lesson that the German military thinkers brought out of WWI was that the machine-gun, not the rifle, was the primary killing weapon on the battlefield.
>The primary mission of the rifleman was to provide protection for the MG and help bring up ammo for it if necessary.

im not arguing that. im just saying youre a fool if you think every squad was armed with an mg42, hell even mp40s.

What myth? Pretty sure late war the 42 was way more common in infantry squads than the 34. And 15 you could at best find in shit tier units and as last ditch weapons.

You might as well get butt mad when someone says the US platoons used M1919 machine guns, because there were also M1917s still in use during WW2.

So, in other words, utterly pointless shitposting over a matter nobody even brought up. Got it.

40k doesn't exactly reflect reality. Please dont expect it to.

both guns produced until war's end. lots of heer units wouldnt be seeing any 42s. germany never had enough production to phase the gun out. i'd just avoid making generalist statements saying one weapon was the standard when it clearly wasnt the case.

just trying to get the facts straight. i'd hate to have someone be misinformed.

>[maximum damage control]