Dark Souls LORE THREAD

I was under the impression that the whole thing was a kind of failsafe system put in place to get the fire linked if the current lord of cinder (prince Lothric in this case) refused to do so.

But when the lords were resurrected all of them ran off to do their own shit, so another failsafe system revived the Unkindled Ones to go fuck them up and drag them back in.

>Aldrich was a “right and proper cleric who developed a habit of devouring men. He ate so many that he bloated like a drowned pig then softened into sludge, so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep and they made him a lord of Cinder. Not for Virtue, but for Might. Such is a lord, I suppose…”.

This bit of dialogue plus the existence of the Princes as Lords of Cinder suggest to me that not all of the Lords linked the flame. How could Aldrich do it if he was locked away in the deep?

>Gwyndolin
>Prince Lothric

What is it with Dark Souls and incredibly feminine men that have never had anything good happen to them in life?

>00tn2.blogspot gr/2016/04/dark-souls-3.html
>Soul Stream
>It should be noted that in Japanese, this is the same spell as "Soul Geyser" in Dark Souls 2. Also, the description of the spell in 2 calling it a family heirloom is erroneous; It is said to be An-Dil's (Aldia's) "legacy", suggesting that he created it.

>"Sorcery imparted by the first of the Scholars, when Lothric and the Grand Archives were but young.

The first of the Scholars doubted the linking of the fire, and was alleged to be a private mentor to the Royal Prince."

>FIRST of the SCHOLARS
>doubted the linking of the fire
>imparts Aldia's legacy

gee I wonder who this could be

darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Irina's Ashes

>Irina was a frail woman. This frailty led to her becoming a saint of Carim, and to her grand treachery.

So is she the one that caused the grand betrayal that Ludleth talks about?

Well, that would explain all the tree man statues on the archives, not to mention that Lothric's house or bedroom or whatever is literally covered by them on the outside.

I've always been of the opinion that being a Lord of Cinder is a level of power, not a title granted from actually having linked the fire. All we know is that if they did it voluntarily, each of them COULD link the fire themselves (or with their respective partners.)

We KNOW that Yhorm linked the fire, and it's pretty safe to assume that the Watchers did if they were able to (as it would fuck with the spread of the abyss.) The Princes didn't, and it is contested whether or not Aldritch did, but it's safe to assume that both are more than strong enough that they at least could have.

Whats more, other very powerful beings (cough, bosses) are called "Heirs of Fire" meaning they are probably so strong that they could plausibly become a lord of cinder with a little work.

That said, I think it's rather possible that Aldy did link the fire. He was probably locked into the cathedral when they found out that he had been becoming a big scary blob by eating dudes, locked him in there, and force-fed him undead and shit until he was strong enough to link the flame. From there on out, there's no reason to think Pontiff Chuckles McTwoswords wouldn't let him light the fire.

Hawkwood directly states Aldrich became a Lord of Cinder purely because he's so powerful.

I always assumed Sully basically stuffed him in a box then threw him into the fire.

Shit translation at work as usual, it's supposed to say that her frailty/weakness led to her letting everyone down by failing to become a firekeeper.

>The Princes didn't,
They weren't in the intro, and Emma clearly says the lords of cinder aren't in Lothric anymore when the princes clearly are. I don't think they count.

For the record concerning Aldrich.

I think both instances are equally possible/dissimive:

-Aldrich MAY have not linked the fire and only became a lord of cinder out of "power" and not of "virtue" through his actions as realistically speaking: Why would he ever link the fire? Who would ever trick or convince him to do such a thing? Y'know?

on the other hand

-Pontiff Sullyhvan may have literally put Aldrich into a compromising situation where he linked the fire some way or another?? I'm just not sure how or why- It's one of those instances where not a lot adds up, but I'm willing to admit it's plausible.

>: Why would he ever link the fire?
The stuff about him getting scared as fuck about the age of the deep sea sounds like his god eating was some way to prepare for it, and linking the flame would probably have kept it away from some time as well.

Sully doesn't seem to be on good terms with the Aldrich Faithful in any case. He keeps him locked up in a tower, and threw one of the deacons to be fed to his dogs.

>He keeps him locked up in a tower
Actually it says he locked Gwyndolin up in the cathedral as an offering to Aldrich, Aldrich was probably free to come and go as he pleases.

Just noticed that the statues in the Cathedral of the Deep (the particular one I saw was the one along the stairs down to the mimic) depict stuff bursting out of the backs of the pilgrims.

Guess that's where the pilgrim butterflies come from.

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>Even his shirt is mad

Who is Pontiff ? I thought at first that he was just an Aldrich underling but he seems far more important than that.

Also what's up with the serpents ? People say theyre the angels but what is their plan ? Crashing the kingdom with no survivors ?

>Who is Pontiff ? I thought at first that he was just an Aldrich underling but he seems far more important than that.

Some other user will come and answer this better than I could, but Pontiff was/is essentially the man behind the curtain.
Pontiff is responsible for 1/3rd of everything bad happening in dark souls 3 and is the brains behind Aldrich and The Cathedral of The Deep.

>Also what's up with the serpents ? People say theyre the angels but what is their plan ? Crashing the kingdom with no survivors ?

Unclear.
Some people say they're Angels, but I doubt that: The Serpent Statues were put up in the Archives and the Archives and Scholars were loyal to the Lothrics.. Soo???

Kaathe (Is it Kaathe? The Darkstalker?)
Kaathe is of in new londo/londor running the church of londo and fucking around with the hollows- assiting them in country building and trying to usurp the flame from gods.

BEARER OF THE DARKSIGN, LET YOUR TRUE STRENGTH SHINE
goddamn this line shouldve been in the pre release trailers, its so good

Theyre called pilgrim butterfllies, and its clesr the pilgrims wear the rocks on their backs to prevent transformation,
But
The hollows in high wall are very clearly transforming into trees and eventually the butterflies. You can even see their humanoid heads still dangling from the butterflies if they float nearbt you. So what gives? Did the eclipse/angel bullshit turn the lothric citizens into butterflys or did the pilgrims do it on their own? Are the hollows praying/treeforming in high wall just Pilgrims without any clothes? One that didnt die on the bridge?

Well, the cleric set says

"It is said that the blue-robed travelers were entrusted with a duty.

They bore large covers on their backs to ensure that they would not become seedbeds for spreading darkness."

So my complete wild and unfounded assumption is that just like the clerics, the pilgrims were given a task(given that they're from londor it would seem pretty obvious that the task is given by kaathe), and unlike the clerics, they probably do want to spread the darkness. How turning into flying tree monsters accomplishes that? Dunnolol, maybe they release abyss spores or something.

Well, it seems Kaathe and Aldia are behind the whole Gertrude thing and convincing Lothric not to link the fire too
So maybe its all part of some Kekaiku we wont know about til DLC

so I've noticed there are factions of sort in this game, that want their own endings for it.

It looks like the Londor want the entire world to go into darkness? It seems that's what Yuria wants.
And Londor has no connection to Anor Londo? The silver knights don't strike me as the kind to want that sort of thing.

But I also don't think that the Lothric people want the hollowing either, since they have the sun altar in their castle.

So it seems that Anor Londo and Lothric are two sister cities that are on the same side, like Athens and Sparta, while the people like Yuria are coming from Persia?

I've read on Veeky Forums that the fire is fading and no amount of work will make it relight soon enough, if not now.

What do each of the three endings actually lead to? What is the best way to save humanity in this game? It seems that every choice is a shit choice and I lose anyways.

I read a cool theory another user came up with that the whole fire cycle is actually just the reproduction cycle of the archtrees.

Which would explain why so many hollows are turning into trees, and maybe explain Frampt and Kaathes machinations as that is the time they hail from.

Have you ever read Berserk? Bittersweet is the best ending you could hope for.
Theres also the blue and red Lothric knights. Reds want the flame linked and serve High priestess Emma, blues want the flame to die and serve Lothric and whatever these "Angels" are (totally not the god hand amirite?)
The Cathedral and Irithyl and all associated groups stopped giving a shit about the fire and want to prepare for an age of the Deep, whatever the fuck that means
Consumed King is like the serpent men, they want the age of ancient dragons back or at least a taste of their power

Mfw I realized the Kiln seen from a distance is actually on a giant tree stump

What the hell is this?

Yeah I've got a question.

I never played the previous Souls games, got into the series with Bloodborne and am now most of the way through DS3.

Why the fuck is the lore in Dark Souls so garbage and boring compared to Bloodborne, and all feel so disconnected and irrelevant from each other? Do I need to play the first game for any of it to matter? It's like there's not even any actual mystery to solve or substance to the core NPCs like there was with the whole interrelated web of theories with the Doll/Gehrman/Maria/Provost Willem/Laurence.

This game is much closer to a proper sequel than 2 is to 1. Two-thirds of the descriptions namedrop shit from the first game.

Yeah you need to play the first game at least. Or look up the lore, god knows theres a thousand youtube channels that are all about it. DS3 assumes you know the first two games

Alright, I guess I just figured even being a sequel with assumptions about what I already know it would feel a little more compelling and give me more of a desire to actually look up what I'm missing. Right now it's hard for me to even see why anything my character is doing even actually matters. The only thing that's been awesome so far is Siegward.

Seriously, what the hell is this? Anyone?

Its a high dark fantasy, the NPCs arent the big movers and shakers of the world like in BB, theyre little folk swept up in the apocalypse. Its apples and oranges, a different kind of story.

Its a shitty murrican tie in comic that has fuckall to do the games. It has Solaire poorly drawn and a guy named Aldritch that has nothing to do with Aldritch as hes portrayed in the games, starting sn obnoxious boob plate armor Stronk Womyn Mary Sue to boot.
Seriously, why is it that a pit of sexism like japan can write female characters that feel like real people worthy of respect whilebthe west has these cringeworthy cardboard female characters with zero personality.
It should have been a Manga, at least then it would actually have something to do with the plot of the games other than a couple terrible cameos

>What do each of the three endings actually lead to? What is the best way to save humanity in this game? It seems that every choice is a shit choice and I lose anyways.

Here's some context into the available endings:
>Ending 1: To Link The First Flame
You successfully link the first flame; again, but as it shows in the game the flame produced is pitiful, tiny, pathetic and meek. The fire is fading and each time it's rekindled it gets a little weaker a little smaller.
It can't be kept burning forever.

>Ending 2: The End of Fire
You let the fire die and let darkness consume the world as it did in the untended graves. This is not an 'end' to the world, but a new beginning. The age of darkness is quiet, serene, peaceful and cozy in it's own ways and not without hope as "little embers dance in the dark" the flame will relight one day- hopefully refreshed.

>Ending 3: Variation of ending #2
You chicken out at the last moment and attack the firekeeper before she smothers the flame- kindling the flame at the last moment.
You're regarded by the narrator as a piece of shit.

>Ending 4: Usurpation of Fire
I don't completely understand this one, but I think you essentially literally usurp the flame from the control of gods and bring about a "true" age of man, the hollow and one of twilight.... Maybe tie the fire to humanity and the dark sign or something? Hollows all day? Make Londor great again?

The hollows turning into trees only occurs in undead settlement. This is because of the influence of the Curse-rotted Greatwood. The greatwood was used to store all manner of foul curses, but became corrupted itself. It's likely that its influence has begun to work backward - allowing it to infect cursed creatures, such as hollows.

This would be a nice theory but I'm pretty sure there are corpse-trees in Lothric, along with Hollows worshiping them.

Maybe Dark Souls is just being realistic ?

"Oh to savor the sweet pungency but once more..."

"Though the stench makes it difficult to carry on one's person, inflicting toxins on an enemy yields high damage over time. Perhaps some Undead have fond memories of waste. Or, perhaps not."

It must be kind of funny being undead for so long that you reach a point where you look back to even the experience of having to POOP with nostalgia.

I read Londor not as being Anor Londo but being New Londo. It's fully of hollows, Kaathe fucks around with it, they need a new kind now that the original four are dead.
Seems to fit.

Considering Yuria mentions being in service to Kaathe, Ending 4 is basically a true age of man (or what's left of it anyway). You take the place of the Gods since there are none left except maybe Velka, and start a new kingdom Gwyn-style, but with hollows. And, y'know, with no actual heirs since you're a hollow and your wife has a sword in her

I've always wondered; if undead can't poop, where do the caged hollows get all their ammunition?

I know he's the most popular and most well-known guy when it comes to Dark Souls lore but I hear that people think he's wrong all the time. How so?

>And, y'know, with no actual heirs since you're a hollow and your wife has a sword in her

She's actually there at the end credits kneeling with everybody else.

She's easy to miss, so I took a screenshot from a youtube vid and circled where she was.
But, no, yeah: she survives the ritual dude, she's undead.

to be fair, dark souls is pretty flip-floppy on the topic of who can and can't stay dead

What even causes people to grow angel wings
What causes that one group of enemies to grow four wings, the same number of wings the dragons of the age of ancients had

>How so?

I haven't heard that; what I've been hearing is /v/ & Veeky Forums's hate for him since he essentially just stole all of /v/'s lore findings when they were systematically breaking down every single piece of lore from ds1 down.

Vaatividya took all the information he had skimmed from threads; did up some videos and uploaded them on to youtube. His first lore video has 1.3 million views.

Veeky Forums Is SO suspicious that Vaati is scanning them for lore that they refuse to discuss lore.

You mean the Corvians? They're simply creatures of Velka, wandering the roads once the Painted World was destroyed. It's likely they're attracted to the Sin-soaked Road of Sacrifices, and all the atrocities that have been committed along its route. However, they also show up off the sacrificial path, near Farron Keep's entrance, so maybe they just migrated to Farron and the Road from Irithyll, since that's where the Painted World used to be.

...

Possibly this , possibly also that it is /v/ and he's popular, so they are contract-bound to hate him.

That Stronk Womyn Mary Sue is actually Gwyndolin so
>Not even a female

Aldritch is basically mindless by the time the game takes place I think.

What I gathered from the last thread was that Gundyr was supposed to link the Flame, but he didn't make it to the Kiln in time. This is the present time that most areas of the game exist in and found in Untended Graves. Ludleth then used his powers to create a pocket dimension or some other discontinuum fuckery, which resulted in the Firelink the Ashen One uses as a hub. It's disconnected in time from the other areas of the game but time in there has passed enough for corruption to set into Gundyr while he waited for a worthy Ashen One. Apparently also if you never talk to the Handmaiden in the hub Firelink, then talk to the Handmaiden in Untended Graves, the hub Handmaiden will remember you.
The last Firelink is the place at the end of time when the realms of the Lords have contracted into a small space around the Kiln.
Short answer: they all exist in different times but are the same place.

His found in translation videos are literally stolen from the blog in

So, theory on the Deep: it's the opposite of Fire.

When the First Flame appeared it sparks disparity; the souls of Life/Death (witch/nito) and light/dark (gwyn/Pygmy).

One disparity mentioned in the DS1 opening that isn't represented by the Lord souls is heat and cold, represented by the First Flame and its opposite.

It's possible that the Deep may have disparities all its own, but I do like the idea of an Age of Water running in contrast to the Age of Fire.

What's a good system for running a Dark Souls game?

Note how the deep spells have weird splashing water effects and sounds, too.

Also:

The deep 深み The deep / the depths 深み

Abyss 深淵 Abyss 深淵

Deep Sea 深海 Deep Sea 深海 Some people claim this is a mistranslation of abyss. It's not. 深 = deep, 海 = sea, ocean. Straightforward as you can get.

However, the Japanese words for "deep" and "abyss" both do have connotations of water (all the kanji involved use the sanzui-hen, which signifies water).

Depends on what you want to focus on. You could do it with DCC, modified Savage Worlds, or even something tactics focused like Strike!.

additionally, glowing red eyes seem to be a common sign of abyss corruption, and the Deacons all have this as well as the Abyss Watchers who attack the others.

The text for Deep Protection mentions that the Deep was once a holy place until it became host to many abhorrent and horrible things (which fits the water theme - an agent of purification becoming tainted). It's possible that the Deep is just some new 'strain' of the Abyss.

You can also just walk away from the firekeeper when you're given the option to kill her. You don't get her final lines.

It's at least related to Humanity. Deep Soul says "souls which swell from the deep pursue their target, drawn towards life", exactly the same as the dark sorceries/hexes which are formed of Humanity/abyss, plus of course the fact that they deal dark damage.

I do still think the separate disparity of fire and 'water' could work. Could be that Embers and Dregs are both what remains of Humanity, originally burning with a black flame. The former all but burnt out through the continual cycles of the first flame, and the latter a result of Humanity avoiding the fire for too long and extinguishing through oversaturation among itself with no flame, but kept going through the power of souls.

I'm still not sure what to make of the Profaned Flame, though. It's definitely not the Chaos Flame, that's specifically said to be dead. It's entire thing is that fire is supposed to fade, to cycle, but this flame is Profaned because it defies that natural state and just continues to burn eternally. That it's originally called Flame of Sin in the same way that Aldia is the Scholar of the First Sin makes me think it's related to Gwyn's first linking of the fire.

>he didnt even pay attention to the area around the first fucking bonfire after you leave firelink for the first time
There an almost fully butterly tree hollow RIGHT THERE in High Wall. Numerous more nearby. Your blind.

So why are failed versions of the consumed king locked all the way in Irithyl Dungeon? Those white creepy things have little wings

There's undead turning into trees all over Lothric. Pretty sure that the general implication with them and the Pus of Man is that everything is trending toward the Age of Ancients once again, living creatures either becoming archtrees or dragons. It's all only halfway at the point we enter though, since instead of great enormous archtrees it's just shitty little fledgling birch trees and instead of everlasting dragons they're pale, sickly wyverns. but I think, given enough more time, it'd get there eventually.

Please dont tell me thats actually in the comic

Oceiros was presumably still fairly active as king before becoming so consumed with his research, and since Irithyll is part of the Kingdom of Lothric, Oceiros would've been well within his rights to have them sent there, out of sight. Probably didn't have them just executed because, even as failures, they're still part dragon in his eyes, and he felt some affinity with them, but not enough to want to keep them around to remind him of his failure.

oh neato, a Das lore thread in Veeky Forums

i'm looking forward to the board game. i hope it allows for an open world and isn't too linear in its design.

on the topic of lore, i made this timeline of what i believe happened between Das2 and Das3. Let me know what y'all think so I can edit it, I want it to be as accurate as possible

The Profaned Flame is more Abyss fuckery, it seems like. The Profaned Coal is a remnant of it, and Andre mentions he sees the Abyss in it. It was described as a flame that only burned living creatures, never went out, and came out of the sky. Shit maybe it was a radioactive meteor

>I'm still not sure what to make of the Profaned Flame, though. It's definitely not the Chaos Flame, that's specifically said to be dead. It's entire thing is that fire is supposed to fade, to cycle, but this flame is Profaned because it defies that natural state and just continues to burn eternally. That it's originally called Flame of Sin in the same way that Aldia is the Scholar of the First Sin makes me think it's related to Gwyn's first linking of the fire.

I was thinking more of the Lost Sinner who was said to have also tried to recreate the First Flame. We know what happened to the Chaos Flame, but we never really found out what happened to the Lost Sinner's version.

Flame of Sin

Sinner's Flame

I only really see one glaring issue with your plotline: Yorshka would not be spared because she was of dragonkin. The Painted World was destroyed by the Cathedral of the Deep and Priscilla's half-dragon blood didn't save her from being eaten by Aldrich.

It wasn't necessarily Shiva's ninja who you find in the King's Garden. It mentions that many different assassins attempted to attack Oceiros, but never succeeded because of his dragon scales making him backstab-immune.

Also
>Giant Blacksmith killed by Vordt for no reason
>Knightess killed by Dancer for also no reason - and her body is found in the secret darkmoon temple
>vordt and dancer are outrider knights, meant to serve in foreign lands and are thus never actually found in irithyll
watchu talkin bout

>Priscilla's half-dragon blood didn't save her from being eaten by Aldrich.
Literally never happened.

The scythe is a spell Aldrich gained from eating Gwyndolin.

>fanfiction.net

The lifehunt power was gained from Gwyndolin's memories of Priscilla, it's just an illusory version, thus he doesn't have the true Lifehunt ability. What happened to Priscilla after that is unclear.

Yorshka is Ocellotte, she wasnt even around yet

As several anons brought up, I believe the lifehunt ability came to Aldrich purely from eating Gwyndolin

True, but i felt that it would make the most sense seeing as the Easterner's Ashes are in Anor Londo

You're right about these, i tend to go into the graphic novel mindset when thinking of the timeline and imagine how exactly the siege would have gone.

I'll delete the Vordt and Dancer stuff and post an updated version of the timeline every new thread

some parts, certainly. but it's fun and isn't too left field

If you pay attention to the outroder knight ghosts walking through irithyll two of them are Vordt and Dancer before they became more beastlike. Havent seen the vordt myself but I saw the dancers helm on one female ghost quite clearly

Priscilla is firstborn's daughter, he betrayed the gods for the dragons because he was sleeping with one. Priscilla was locked up because her existence is taboo but kept alive because she's Gwyn's granddaughter.

Priscilla is the queen of Lothric, her child Ocelotte inherits her invisibility ability.

the second one isn't Vordt, it's just an outrider knight like the ones we fight before the swamp

Then arent Lorian and Lothric halfbreeds. Not to mention Lothric has miracles so strong they that can revive the dead, something I think only Gwynevere could pull off

>that pic
I'm glad other people discovered that

>2016
>still falling for the queen is gwynevere meme

Yes, and? Of course they were once in irithyll. But you'll notice they're walking toward the city gates - preparing to leave on their journey. How does any of this imply they killed Knightess or the Giant? Wouldn't it make more sense that the Knightess (who served the Darkmoon) would have died defending Gwyndolin? And the Giant may simply have died of natural causes, if there is such a thing for giants - he's in the same place he worked, no signs of struggle, and Andre mentions his passing must have been long ago.

>Divine Blessings in DS1
>Created by Gwynevere, goddess of fertility
>Divine Blessings in DS3
>Created by Queen of Lothric, praised as a goddess of fertility
it's not difficult