Alright fa/tg/uys I'm going to bring it up, you are going to fucking hate me. But warhammer 40k is a jew scam

>13.97 for a tank that doesn't look like shit

>53.69 for virgin neck beard tank that has less detail, but is made of slightly better plasic

kek.

I'm agreeing with you, dicknozzle.

if you had only included a timestamp you would have thoroughly owned him, well played though

fucking rekt goddamn

>kikes

Fuck you, crackerjack

...

> warhammer 40k is a jew scam

>But warhammer 40k is a jew scam.

I have to say this, I'm offended. As a proud member of the Chosen People I have to say that when we scam you goyim we run a much tighter ship than those Games Workshop goys.

Those Games Workshop goys couldn't make a decent profit if it was right in front of their noses. Oy vey! Just look at how their business is doing. It's just another example of goyim thinking they're clever but really messing everything up. They can't even make you losers like them, and you losers like the anime cartoons and other manchild bullshit.

Now when they go out of business in 5 years or so, I might have my friends at the Walt Disney Company buy up their IP and we'll see what we can do with it.

Has this ever happened in the history of the wargaming models? I find it incredibly hard to believe.

I've had people working at game stores try to deride me on my purchase decisions and tell me I "didn't want" something several times before.

Part of the reason I just buy my shit online.

>Except you faggots will never complain about those companies despite the fact they charge MORE than GW.
Too bad that other non-historical wargames didn't forcing you buy 5-6 wraithknights if you want to play a game.

I got the upsale "you'll also need this" when I was like 10 and got a box of boys and they insisted i get a Warboss. That was at a local non GW LGS tho

Well, they were right, you'd need a Warboss, that wasn't a total scam at least.

Our local GW old manager would push kids and hype them into buying shit like blood dragon knights (the 80€ per 5 box) letting them try the in-store unit, making them murderrape kings (as in, lie about their profiles and have them be better) and then cash on the hyped 12yo kids

Nobody's forcing you to buy shit, faggot.

>degree in economics
>doesn't understand economics

You do realize that there's a ton of companies making WW2 minis, right? I play 20mm scale WW2 and I got a bunch of companies to choose from for my minis. I can get cheap ones or I can get ones with options, or ones with loads of details. I can get ones that snap together easily or I can get ones where I need to assemble tracks one link at a time.

How many companies make 40k models? Not "totally not 40k models", actual 40k models? There's no competition so the price is what the market will bear. If people pay $100 for a tank, then that's the price you can sell it at. You're not doing any favors for yourself by flooding your own market with cheap miniatures. You're not competing with anyone else for your own game's minis. A company making WW2 minis has to compete with all the other companies making WW2 minis and they need to have an edge on the rest, be it a cheap price, quality, options, or whatever else.

Like shit, man, what did they teach you in school?

Yeah, they just gives them overpowered rules.

Still not forcing you to buy them, unless you want to WAAC all day. Maybe find a better group that doesn't go for the latest OP crap?

>Maybe find a better group that doesn't go for the latest OP crap?
You mean better community?

Usually I'd agree with you 100% on this and the logic is largely sound, asides from the fact that the market is clearly not bearing the price, as evidenced by the appearance of competitors in recent years.

Your logic is also flawed when you assume that the market is "40k" and not what it actually is, which is sci fi skirmish games.

Defending Games "We don't do market research" Workshop pricing decisions is a little ridiculous considering how far they've fallen in the past decade or so.

Ive been to a bunch of Gw stores and i can confirm ive never been able to buy two boxes of their product that they're trying to sell due to them being from different lines.

It was devastating

>Defending Games "We don't do market research" Workshop

Dude, telling you how it is is not defending it.

>as evidenced by the appearance of competitors in recent years

There's been other wargames for ages. Some successful, some not.

>Your logic is also flawed when you assume that the market is "40k"

In terms of minis, it is. 40k minis are for 40k the game. Infinity minis are for infinity the game. WW2 minis are for any WW2 game. I can make WW2 minis and people who buy the can use them in any game they want. Models for 40k or Warmachine are for those games and at best can be proxied in other games. Of course there's loads of companies who make minis or bits to use in 40k, but they're often small operations. Privateer Press isn't making 40k models to compete with GW's 40k models.

Yeah it's overpriced, problem is most of us don't give a fuck. If you're trying to shame us then good luck, most of us stopped caring or trying to make sense of it a long time ago. We're all too far down the rabbit hole now.

>Telling you how it is
And I'm telling you why you're wrong

>There's been other wargames for ages
But the whole point is that Games Workshop position as market leader has been seriously eroding over the past decade after a long string of poor decisions by upper management.

>In terms of minis, it is. 40k minis are for 40k the game
You've completely missed the point, people buy into Games Workshops shit because of a combination of fluff, crunch and models. Now there will be a point where dissatisfaction with one or more of these will mean the person no longer bears the price GW is charging and might switch to a competitor. You (much like GW) are ignoring the fact that GW has competition and isn't competing to sell 40k products, they're competing with other tabletop games and miniature providers.

> 'they're mint'

Feels weird that I still know people who talk like that.

>COMPANIES ARE MAKING MONEY OFF PEOPLE
MORE NEWS AT 11.

>And I'm telling you why you're wrong

That still doesn't make me a GWIDF.

>You've completely missed the point

Oh? Then do explain to me why Infinity and Warmachine minis are also stupidly expensive compared to historical minis. Because "GW are a bunch of yews" doesn't explain that.

I'm not the guy who called GW a bunch of jews.

I agree with what you're saying about non-historicals being highly priced.

I was just pointing out that GWs pricing is still retarded because the higher ups at GW appear to not understand economics or seem to think that the market isn't going to adapt to their pricing.

Sure, sure. GW prices are high, but so are many other mini companies.

Yes, there's competing games, but switching game systems isn't always as simple as buying cheaper minis. If you don't like GW prices, your only options are really to either to proxy cheaper non-GW minis or change to a whole other game with whole other rules, player base and minis.

With historicals you have a plethora of mini makers to buy from for the system you enjoy and switching the system lets you port the minis over to the new system just fine. If 40k, Infinity and Warmachine could use their minis with one another's games, their prices should also be way lower.

>Then do explain to me why Infinity minis are also stupidly expensive compared to historical minis.
Quality.
Also, they are cheaper than new GW models.

>Desperadoes
>17.98€ per model
>Ravenwing Command
>13.34€ per model

>Mobile Brigada
>8.24€ per model
>SM Tactical Squad
>3.5€ per model

>Imperial Service Yu Jing Sectorial Starter Pack
>7.49€ per model
>Start Collecting! Tau Empire
>4.64€ per model (if we ignore drones)

>Maghariba Guard
>69.95€
>Onager Dunecrawler
>52€

And that's just comparing GW's own euro prices to Corvus Bellis. In pounds the price would be a little lower.

No GW is pretty solidly in it's own league. Most games are selling cheaper models in bulk or are selling skirmish games where the figures are best compared to GW characters, and in some cases are still cheaper than line infantry. GW also expects you to bring a hundred figures to a game, versus games that expect maybe forty at most and ten-fifteen if you're talking infinity or malifaux or something.

GW's falling profit suggests they aren't.

As mentioned, you compare infinity figures to character figures: they're all-metal, high-detail figures that you're meant to put a lot of effort into.

And, bluntly, infinity and 40k aren't the same competing games. Infinity was competing with things like Necromunda and Inquisitor, market share GW kindly let out to the competition. 40k is competing with Warpath, which owns it on price so hilariously it's not even worth discussing.

>Yaogat Strike Infantry 12,95 €
>Orruk Megaboss 24£ (30,6€)

>compare unit box to a single model

Ok.

>Kazak Spetsnaz 11.95€
>6th Airborne Rangers Reg.10.25€
>Brigadier Jacques Bruant, Sous-officier des Métros 9.25€
>Intel Spec-Ops 11.25€
>2nd Irregular Cameronians Reg. 15.75€
>Highlander Caterans 15.75€
>Military Order Father-Knight 13.50€
>Svalarheima Nisses 11.95€
>Aquila Guard 12.95€
>Adeptus Mechanicus Skitarii Rangers 3.10€

At least I tried to be fair and compare somewhat similar kits to one another.

To be fair, that unit was immensely strong, but points and model wise they were extortionate - he may well have been using their rules, but they would be charging units worth a quarter of the points

Because they have less competition. Historical has always been cheaper. More companies have sprung up that produce generic fantasy models, that's why the prices of those have started to sink, but GW, PP and CB produce models with a specific aesthetic that only have indirect competition.

PP is still cheaper than GW. As is CB comparing to characters. They -used- to be equivalent, but they're not anymore.

Okay brave Space Marine, Azra'il costs 16,95€ still cheaper than Megaboss.

>you compare infinity figures to character figures

Why? I thought the argument was about price.

>And, bluntly, infinity and 40k aren't the same competing games

Well, I didn't bring up the Infinity and 40k comparison, I just ran with it.

As said, a block of infinity figures is the equivalent of a group of 40k characters. Otherwise 40k just gets owned outright by the fact you need like ten guys for infinity (even if you're on the pricier end, that's like £150), versus like a hundred, including tanks and titans and shit, for 40k (armies easily up to £500+).

I stopped buying GW stuff years ago.

But now they are luring me back with the impending Blood Bowl releases.

I know I will be ripped off but I can't stop myself when it comes to Blood Bowl.

Then people should start complaining about the price of the GAME, rather than the price of individual miniatures.

It's amusing when people bitch about GW model prices, but when you point out how other companies have more expensive or similarly prices minis, the focus quickly shifts to how GW games as a whole are more expensive and the individual miniature price is dropped.

Warhammer is the gateway drug for better, in depth tabletops. But since so many people stay on the topsoil, GW doesn't hold back from making cash.

Game has been lifeless since 3rd edition.

Look, I think intellectual property is government granted monopoly.
Games workshop should have to compete. But they hide behind copyright.

You guys should be buying as many recasts as you can.

This is completely theoretical and in an LGS of 30 members, I have never seen this happen.

Leave your house user, the world isn't as bad as you think it is.

>high-detail figures that you're meant to put a lot of effort into.

So your describing warhammer right??

I believe its the lore that holds people, and the ability to personalize your models and armies to greater degrees then other games.

>says the person who has not created a single thing in their entire life

I'm reminded of the German pirate party member who got mad that a book they wrote got pirated.

lol, say what you want, but traditionally views on property never considered intellectual property to be property

intellectual property is nether scarce, nor exclusive. Two people can have the same exact idea independently. You don't own it magically because you thought of it first.

I'm not against companies using things like trade secrets, or forming cartels. Which would put in place rules and standards based on the market.

Without the source code to a program, many are willing to pay for updates to software they cannot modify, or lack the skill to do so.

You realize we are talking about a company that has a history of stealing every idea they can, then aggressively attacking those who do the same to them.

I just saw a dude running 5 knight titans in a tournament last Saturday. The necron player he was up against had taken one out when I passed by, but boy was he frustrated.

That hurts the individual more than it would companies.

>Brings up one of the most accepted facts on Veeky Forums
>MATYRDOM!
Not that I'm complaining, just tickled me.

Sure, and it's a fun beer and pretzels game. But they pandered too hard to the tornament hype and WAAC became intense at lgs.

>personalize

As in? Nothing stopping different paint schemes in other games. Otherwise the warham culture generally frown upon breaking from the waac status quo. I noticed it in different game stores, the same mentality. The same lists won tornaments, and those lists had must-buy models. There's actually little room for game mechanic personalization, and with every new edition the watered down rules made the game feel less like list building strats with niche tactics opposed to rolling dice next to your win unit from a torny list you downloaded online. As the rules got more streamlined and generic, model prices went up.

Point is the game has become the go to. It is very approachable compared to Rogue Trader in 98 while not very demanding for thought. And it is in this way that GW makes their profits.

Personalize like this

Nah, Infinity.

The point being made here is not that one is more then the other, its that your suppose to spend time on the warhammer miniatures as well.

That's a conversion with FW bits, if I'm not mistaken. Which kinda defeats the argument of 40k being cheaper than Infinity.

infinity quality is fine too bad their sculpts and aesthetic is god awful

Sure, what is being addressed in that post is the implication that warhammer models are something cheaply done that somehow lacks the amount of hobbying an infinity miniature would

>sculpts
Much better than GW CAD.
>aesthetic is god awful
Dunno, generic Sci-fi/Space Opera + light anime looks fine for me.

You also need 1/8 the amount of Infinity models, retard.

>"lol, GW so expensive"
>show that by per miniature price GW is quite cheap
>"lol, GW not for display pieces"
>show detailed GW models
>"lol, GW so expensive"

And around and round we go.

My google, your too much

>moving the goal post

Then how about you stop complaining about 40k MODEL prices? Because that's the argument we always get, "GW models so expensive, waaaah!" and when you get pointed out they're not when compared to other companies, the goal post gets moved to "well, as a game it's more expensive."

If you'd just complain about 40k as a game needing more investment than a small skirmish game, then make that complaint.

>My google, your too much

What did he mean by this?

There's a fuckton of not-blood bowl games out there bro.

I'm not the same person, you're just retarded. Get the fuck out of here Redshirt, we don't like your shit.

Top taste m8

> tfw Reaper Bones and SoBH master race and see idiots still talking about GW and WH40K

Wow, you guys are getting the degrees with this fancy writing? All mine has is boring machine print.

Easy with that damage control.

>Why? I thought the argument was about price.
Comparing like to like (monopose character figures) Infinity is cheaper than 40k, but they don't have a similar box of grunt troop type thing to compare against the bulk of 40k.

for that your best comparison is Mantic stuff.

>"GW models so expensive, waaaah!"
Yeah, they are really expensive for their quality, over designed and bulky.

I had a GW guy actually refuse to sell me a Dreadnaught until I bought a case for my janky Battle for Macgragge dudes instead of the box I was carrying things in. Granted, the case still gets use, but at the time I didn't give a shit. I was new and wanted new things.

Warhammer troop boxes are ok-ish for their price. Their vehicles and airplane kits are garbage (detail/part wise) and extremely overpriced just as their shitty single-pose plastic kits.

You should have just said "okay, I won't buy anything then." god damn.

You should check historical wargames general and the flames of war general threads. Also check out Bolt Action. These games should be more like your taste. Their prices are also better.

I'm pretty sure it comes down to copyrights and player standards. If you charge a lot for, say, a Tiger, players will immediately go to one of the dozens upon dozens of other makers of Tigers at your scale and find their ideal quality to price ratio. There is zero brand loyalty in historicals, these guys have been playing since before most of their favorite companies were founded for fuck's sake. Also, it's rarely clear which company you bought from because they are all trying to perfectly copy the same source material. When you can tell what company made a tank, it is likely an insult and they fucked up many of the details.

In short, historical players are strongly encouraged to shop around. My local group feels like they never play the same system twice in a row for example.

Finally, in fairness to GW their models are sometimes incredibly easy to put together by plastic standards.

>Comparing like to like (monopose character figures) Infinity is cheaper than 40k

Well of course if we start setting up parameters in favor of the other game. But didn't use a monopose character figure in his example.

>for that your best comparison is Mantic stuff.

Which is a case people very rarely makes, because they want to compare GW minis to prettier minis, not uglier.

I was younger, kinda a pushover, and wanted to be a part of this cool little hobby my friend introduced me to. Looking back now, I totally could have said "fuck off, bye." but I didn't. And now I'm looking at God knows how many dollars sunk into this...

>in fairness to GW their models are sometimes incredibly easy to put together

While this is true, their vehicle kits are also incredibly simple and lack the detail of real scale kits. Companies like Rubicon show that a wargaming model can still have proper details for half the gw-price

>because they want to compare GW minis to prettier minis, not uglier.
I really like some of mantics stuff, their goblins for instance are pretty cute and I think look nicer than the GW Gobos

>mantic goblins
>cute

For Jews.

I like them, I think skaven are super adorable too though so maybe I'm just weird.

So is Veeky Forums starting a blogging service now?

The difference is volume. The model kit market in Japan is so big that they can sell at low prices and still make money. Even the largest miniature wargames manufacturers don't sell that many models.

GW doesn't make a ton of profit; their costs are... widespread.

Flames of War is also fairly pricey compared to other 15mm miniature markers. As with GW, it's largely due to the cost of having a design studio and rules writers largely subsidized by the model business.

Everyone creates shit, user. Don't be dense.

No? You can't spend tons of time on one hundred dudes and finish in a reasonable time frame. It's possible to paint up every dude real nice but it's far more easy and highly encouraged to do so in a game with 15 figures.

3D printing