One leader is killed by one ship

Even Dukhat thought approaching the humans with gun ports open was a big mistake, and with the Minbari active sensors messing up the EA ships, I can understand how things escalated so quickly.
To most of the Minbari, the attack was largely seen as the barbarous act of barely civilized savages murdering their most revered leader. Humans were only worthy of annihilation.

Dukhat was well aware of how crucial the humans would be in the next great war, because of the prophesies of Valen and the Vorlons revealing this to him. Dukhat would have balked at what came after his death.

It was the fact that the Grey council took a vote on what to do immediately after the attack, and Delenn's grief stricken decision swung the council in favor of maximum retaliation.

The Krogan aren't really the victims in the same way the Minbari are. Victims of biology maybe, but not victims of other aliens.

That's why I included the Asari

In that sense, the Krogan are the worst aliens in fiction.

They would have destroyed themselves, but instead got uplifted. Then almost destroyed the galaxy, so they had to be partly genocided. Then they basically started committing racial suicide because they weren't paying attention.

>This is what Salarians really believe

I bet you'll defend the Quarians too.

Well the idea was they'd be diplomats on a space station, dealing with politicians from their own government who are more powerful than them but also minor species who are less powerful than them.

Babylon 5, basically.

Actually from what we know they were getting on just fine after their Nuclear War, with their Tribes surviving well enough.

Then they got Uplifted by Salarians, and got put into a position where their "Rebellion" was inevitable, then they were sterilized. Considering how the Salarians treat warfare, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing was planned from the start.

>Defending the Quarians
Don't make me laugh.

It really bothers me how everyone talks about how the Minbari nearly wiped out humanity, but then the number given for how many people they killed is 50000.

The Quarians are the fucking ONE remotely normal alien race that never demonstrably performs a crime and that never physically attacks you. The only race that is better behaved are the monotone weirdos.

Well, just fine is pretty relative but yes.

I think you overestimate the Salarians. I think they were desperate and uplifted the Krogans, so didn't think about the implications of their biology when they tried to treat them like any other race. The Krogans destroyed entire planets, and then they denied them more because they were scrambling to figure out a way to solve the issue so the Krogans rebelled in a pretty reasonable way. The Genophage wasn't supposed to be permanent, Mordin admits this doesn't he? Plus, it kills all but one in a thousand. Which is about what they're pre-uplift chance was to make it to adulthood. They just didn't predict that the Krogans wouldn't take that into account. If it weren't for Wrex realizing the issue, they would have just killed themselves to extinction.

I'm glad we're in agreement about Quarians though. Racist motherfuckers.

The Minbari are shown onscreen as having a discussion about whether they are ready to exterminate the last of mankind (YUP!), whether they are able (YUP!) and whether they should do it (ehhhhh... YUP!).

>Never performs a crime
>Tried to genocide an entire species they made by accident

Yeah sure bud.

wasn't humanity, at the time, mostly confined still to the sol system or retreated there during the war?
it was just fledgling colonies and ships that got wrecked

First step.

Be reasonably certain that none of them have actually seen Babylon 5. Especially if you plan on borrowing any of the major plot points.

Then trust them. Give them tricky situations to handle, and just enough authority to potentially solve the issue.

But also, make sure they have just enough rope to hang themselves with if they manage to fuck it up royally.

They're the ones (hopefully) preventing the next Interstellar War, if they can avoid pissing off enough people that they don't wind up *causing* the next Interstellar War.

I'm 100% sure it wasn't a crime... so glad you agreed with me.

It's not really the 'last of mankind' if you've only killed 50000 people. That's 1/12th of the people who died in the Civil War alone.

Should I have a private discussion with everyone about what their character and species' motives are?

Then sort of let alliances fall into place?

Or should I say "you're this race and they want such and such, now go be friends with him over there"?

Here's the problem, from my perspective, that the Salarians had to be idiots to ignore, or had to have planned for the Rebellions.

They gave Krogan, a species who's population was only kept in check by the incredible dangers of the homeworld, not only the technology to overcome those dangers, but also fucking Garden Worlds, with no dangers to over come.

With their birthrate the population boom was inevitable. With the population boom either Civil War, or Rebellion was, again, inevitable.

So the Salarians had to have been idiots to agree to grant the Krogan Garden Worlds after the Rachni War was over, or they had to have been planning ahead.

I can see uplifting the Krogan in a panic, but what came after? That's stupidity, or planning.

Don't forget killing any of their own kind who protected said species.

See Above.

Uh... I'm talking about the convo where they were making preparations to exterminate mankind. Not where they were primarily discussion what they've *done*, but what they're *about to do*.

I just see no reason to try get rid of the Krogans.

Their keeping a Yahg on Sur'Kesh seems evidence enough of their lack of forward thinking.

To Be Fair, that's the Third Game, which has the worst writing of all three games.

But you have a point, the Salarians might just be idiots.

I'm, 100%, sure, it, wasn't, a, crime.

You can take issue with the Quarian government etc. Fine. Though "things that hurt my feelings" are not actually things that break alien law. Reapers are, probably, not breaking their own laws either.

My point is they're the only race that never joins criminal gangs (on screen) and never attacks you. They deserve props for that.

But again, "hurts your precious feelings" does not equate to breaking the law. Nobody even remotely implied to the Quarians that "Um excuse me you're breaking a space law against toaster genocide, step the fuck back."

It depends on what setting you are using but there is a really nice diplomatic/social example in the age of worms campaign for d&d. The party attends a ball and has to use the city to find clothing, jewelry, information of people who might attend the ball and then at the ball they have to try and not cause a social snafu.

People are bitching about the Quarians solely about the third game, not sure why the Salarians aren't fair game either.

They where more concern about holding the line, than think if they should hold the line.

If I remember correctly the casualties were mentioned to be around 250,000. But that still seems way too low, even if you accept that the Minbari skipped past Earth's colonies, and only took out military targets and a couple outlying outposts before they decided not to turn Earth into glass.

Because the Quarian's lied. It's still a secret that the Geth didn't strike first, and they lost. Plus, the only Geth that interact with the outside galaxy are hostile so it's fair to assume no one bothered to look into it.

Also, Tali starts out making deals with gangsters when you first meet her. I'm sure she'd done equally shady shit. Same thing with the young Quarian on Omega.

Legion in the second game also talks it, and the Geth/the Quarian's are barely touched on in the first game for some reason.

Dude what? Killing your own Citizens for protesting is a crime by any sensible viewpoint.

They don't join gangs because gangs won't take them, they think that a Quarian will steal their stuff and run off.

Legion talked about it in the second game bro. The Quarians started shooting the second a Geth asked "Does this unit have a Soul?"

Oi. I may think the Quarians are the bad guys in this situation, but don't talk shit about mai waifu.

Tali admittedly chose criminals as her larceny target during space gypsy coming of age, but it was still going to be larceny.

She's better as Garrus' waifu.

Fair enough

And shut your whore mouth.

>Killing your own Citizens for protesting is a crime by any sensible viewpoint.

We seem to be making little progress. "Crime" doesn't mean "things that hurt your feelings." It doesn't even mean "things that hurt your feelings that aliens do." Reapers are not breaking Reaper law by being dicks.

Here on planet Earth, traitors are put to death if they pose a threat and its practical, and for the majority of human history, they tended to be put to death as well. Any even *remotely* threatening non-human life form is likely to be put to death.

As we're going by ME3 canon + the totally nonbiased viewpoint of Geth in ME2, Space Jesus Himself tells you that for a bazillion years, inorganics uniformly exterminate organics when the galaxy is left to its own devices. So you can't say that the behavior of the Quarian government is out of line by Earth standards, or even unreasonable given galactic president.

Presumably, if I were the Quarian President, and my government really wanted to kill robots, and there was a law against killing robots, I would probably executive order that shit immediately so that it wasn't a crime.

>better as Garrus' waifu
besides biochemistry what do they have in common?

>if I were the Quarian President
The Quarian Military declared Martial Law without imput from the government
Here that's what we call a "coup"

And You're STILL ignoring "Shot down their own citizens for protesting. Protesters aren't a threat, they weren't shooting at the government.

>president.
precedent sorry

What does your character have in common with Tali? Their romance is cute, and it's cool that Bioware has your party members interacting with each other in at least partially meaningful ways.

They steal stuff. So much that they're discriminated against across the whole galaxy for it. Tali tries to rob some criminals in the first game and almost gets killed for it.

Also, no. Inorganics and organics uniformly fight wars with each other. The reasons for those wars are never elaborated upon, but we can assume it's both organics and robots starting shit in equal measure. It didn't even have to be extermination, the Reapers were created because the Leviathan's slaves kept fighting each other and their machines instead of being slaves.

The Geth weren't being threatening, except to the Quarian's ability to have slaves.

I'd do it for Trump

Depending on Origin?
They could have spent their entire life on ships, or is also a thief, Mindoire doesn't have anything that comes to mind though

And that's just off the top of my head.

I don't know what rules they had with regards to protesters.

But anyway, I'll alter my original statement: what I meant to say was that quarians are afaik the only race that joins your party but that never attacks you.

Those things never come up in any of the romance. So, evidently, nothing.

Garrus and Tali are both engineers and both assumed leadership roles at a young age. They've both been through everything that's happened on the Normandy, and they even share similar sense of humor. They're also both pretty outgoing, but are constantly surrounded by humans on the Normandy. That's a bit of a stretch though.

They do, if you tell them to stop genociding the Geth for no reason.

>They steal stuff.

They are accused of stealing stuff, because lol space racism. The sole instance this actually occurs in game is with a group whose corpses you loot anyway.

Shepard is as well depending on class
Garrus is young? I would swear he was around Shepard's age, or at least the Turian equivalent. He was a beat-cop before he met Shepard
Shepard has, obviously.
Shepard does, depending on speech choices
Shepard almost always is
That's a stretch, like you said.

If you fail there, they just destroy the Geth, but there aren't any Quarians who actually initiate combat with you in any of the games.

I always assumed he was 5-8 years younger than Shep, given context and the way he behaves.

Or the Geth just destroy them.

You never fight a Volus either, but they're also well known bastards.

grain of truth to every lie and stereotype, sure some quarians may steal while others don't, the ones that do steal however probably leave a better imprint however.

>Should I have a private discussion with everyone about what their character and species' motives are?

At least tell all the players about the setting, recent galactic history, and maybe a few generalized goals of each species.

More sinister plots, secret motivations, classified knowledge can be given individually to each player, or perhaps to multiple players from the same species or faction.

Remind the players to keep these goals, both the publicly known ones and the hidden ones, in mind when playing their characters.

Suggest certain alliances, but don't force anything.

Remember the old phrase "politics makes strange bedfellows".

Characters with seemingly no good reason to even like each other might be forced by circumstance to work together if it suits some mutual public (or hidden) goal.

That's true, but they're an *unbelievably* less thieving and violent race than salarians, asari, humans, krogans, etc. etc. I think every race that joins you besides them will attack you at some point.

Correct, but that's also just because there's a minute number of Quarians. I think the stated population is supposed to be only like twenty million and limited almost exclusively to the migrant fleet. We have about as much exposure to Quarian's as we do to Elcor in the whole series.

They might be equally thieving and violent, we just only encounter all of three outside the migrant fleet and one of them is being thieving and violent.

When you foster a culture of ruthless violence towards the first sign of hostility while using your willingness and ability to prove your reputation whenever it comes to question, doing anything short of murdering the shit out of whole cultures the moment they step up would invalidate your entire identity.

I mean either you kill some aliens who you don't even like or the whole galaxy calls you out on being a bitch and you lose the whole of who you are just so some other race can wave their dicks all over your dead commander's body.

>Correct, but that's also just because there's a minute number of Quarians.

We don't know if that's the reason why, and I find it unlikely. Surely it would not be a problem or unrealistic to have a single hostile Quarian gang somewhere. We know Krogans are inherently violent, that Salarians tend to view other races as utter garbage, that criminal humans exist, and that a lot of Asari harbor extremely elitist issues.

>star trek has any sensible plot
Kek.
They wanted tolkien-like orc, they made tolkien-like orcs.
So, yeah, minbari are the worst as in the worst written.

How would a Quarian gang get somewhere? Almost the entirety of their tiny species lives in a single group, and they require specialist maintenance for their suits. We encounter two non-migrant fleet Quarians over the whole series, and they are both on Pilgrimage. They just don't live anywhere else.

Another reason you probably rarely encounter them in a hostile way, they're at a much higher risk in a firefight. One or two grazing shots and they're liable to get a horrible infection.

>One heir apparent is killed by like a handful of assassins
>Declare war while ignoring attempts at diplomacy
>All major powers proceed to declare war on each other
>Leaders fighting each other included three cousins
>Ignored diplomacy, familial bonds in their rush to spill each others' blood
>Resulting conflict was deadlier than any preceding war

Are humans the worst species ever?

Four that I remember.
Though you don't talk to one. She's getting hit on by a Turian friend, and not getting it.

There are three Chinese civil wars with higher death tolls.

No, that's the Koala.
Who is too stupid to eat a Eucalyptus Leaf(their food source), if you take the leaf off the branch and put it on a plate.

They, like the panda, are also healthier and more energetic if you feed them things other than their natural food.

But not smarter. Koalas are the dumbest mammal on earth.

That's my point. They're so dumb, they eat shit that is bad for them and can't figure out how to eat anything else.

>They're so dumb, they eat shit that is bad for them and can't figure out how to eat anything else.

Sounds like some humans I know.

Your waifu is shit

Everyone's Waifu is shit, what's your point?

I'd also recomend using a system that actually handles social conflicts and intrigue more than handwaving it. Something like Fate would be a good choice, if you're familiar with it. Burning Wheel is another option, but much harder to learn. That said, Burning Empires or Jihad are versions of it that already have a sci-fi theme.

It wasn't the "last" of mankind, it was the "rest" of mankind.

Their modus operandi was wiping out all military forces, then the next step was wiping out all civilians.

>Are the minbari the worst aliens ever?
They have more nuance, respectability, and realism than any Star Wars or Star Trek alien. It's not a high bar, but it's something.

>retarded jesus robots
I'm so glad someone else thinks so. I hear so much praise for that show.

dunno, sounds like they would fit into wh40k pretty easily

did he poisoned your drink to say that?

Source? I find it hard to believe.

What show is this ?

Minbari are fuckin fanatic space jihadis. Even worse, they're only so advanced and capable because of the technology /handed to them/ by the Vorlons. JMS himself stated that had Earthforce been able to detect Mindari ships at range, then the bastards would have had a hell of a fight on their hands. Earth still would have eventually lost, but the myth of Minbari invincibility and superiority would have been destroyed.

Another fun fact: according to JMS, the entire Minbari "military" was built ground up by the Vorlons for the sole purpose of utterly facefucking the humans at that particular time. And even then, their tactics were moribund, their logistics laughable, and their ships all one-trick wonders, When they go toe-to-toe with the Shadows, they get wrecked with absolute impunity.

there was one human who won a battle against mimbaris. Although he set a trap with nukes but still, he won

>the entire Minbari "military" was built ground up by the Vorlons for the sole purpose of utterly facefucking the humans at that particular time
For what reason?

>When they go toe-to-toe with the Shadows, they get wrecked with absolute impunity.
Just as everybody else, even with telepaths.

>they're only so advanced and capable because of the technology /handed to them/ by the Vorlons
>built ground up by the Vorlons for the sole purpose of utterly facefucking the humans

What the fuck is he trying to convey with that expression and pose?

It's Earth was Cylons all along, and they came to the 12 Colonies and made the toaster Cylons human bodies, only this was all because of God trying to redo humanity a third/fourth time after they made robots and got killed by their robots the last couple of times Battlestar Galactic.

I think it's "I will make the Centauri Republic great again!"

>Tali tries to rob some criminals in the first game and almost gets killed for it.
U fekkin wot mate?
Did you perhaps mean:
> Was trying to make a deal with an information broker, got backstabbed by an asshole and almost killed?

But it's the humans who made them that way.

>Religious fanatics
>Known for being reasonable

Yeah, you should totally go to the middle-east and talk to ISIS with diplomacy. I wish you good luck, OP.

And lets not forget:

>The Space Jesus of their alien faith is actually a human with a time-traveling space station

>mfw one of my country's party leaders wants to actually do this

...

The show had a lot of really good qualities, but it was completely destroyed by its flaws. The grittiness was great, and there was some great acting (particularly by the older cast members), but the cylons were retarded, characterization was thrown under the bus in favor of crazy plot twists, and the story meandered to such an extent that it was patently obvious that the writers were making everything up as they went along.

>one archduke is killed by random person
>start WWI

You take that back. Ferengi are my favorite race.

There is reason why I like to call them straman elves. Warriors are worst of them.

Number 1 is calling shots and he suffer from reverse Pinocio syndrome, he was to human and want tobe more machine. He (they) manipulate rest of Cylons for control and push then toward hate of humanity and "parents".

You spelled G'kar wrong.

he was surprisingly sarcastic.

youtube.com/watch?v=HJxXwmhFcok