Pathfinder General /pfg/

Not having the Paizo Development Team.

The Dame of the Ashen Art, a furred mage-knight whose body contains an excessive amount of steel.

...

I lol'd.

agreed

Mark can stay, though, right? Or was that someone different?

You know, I really started thinking about what I would have liked to see, but this right here beats out anything I could have come up with.

A Sentai hero Synthesist.

Darn PFS-legal-only game.

I see this a lot, but what's wrong with the Paizo team? Maybe it's cuz I don't interact with the community that much but I've never seen any problems with them

>any character, in any setting

I am an uncreative little git, so if I got to play a cute Medusa with some additional/alternate gaze attacks (all, including the petrifying gaze, at-will) and a dinosaur buddy or two, that'd be great. Probably a caster of some kind, but if GM instead needs me to be some sort of archer, the gaze attacks can just be the answer to anything that gets too close for me to shoot.

People were really eager to assume the best about Mark when he joined the dev team. Turns out he's not really any different. Which shouldn't be a surprise considering one of his biggest claims to "fame" was a guide to fighters that convinced a bunch of new players Weapon Focus wasn't a shit feat and was instead a gold standard.

Martials vs Casters and their view on errata with Pathfinder Society

I'm just tryin' to remember which one of the Paizo devs it was that /pfg/ actually liked. I remember there being one or MAYBE two.

Probably Mark definitely not Bulhman.

Owen Stephens is pretty good. Did weapon master's, far as I can tell.

And Wes Schneider is BASED EDITOR who shut down that 'all changelings are trans' shit.

Jason Bulmahn:
>All of Core iirc
>Summoner
>Witch
>Oracle
>Shaman
>Arcanist
>Occultist
>Lead Designer for Occult Adventures

Knuckledusters in Adventurer's Armory? SKR
Knuckleduster nerf? Jason Bulmahn
Delegating Mark Seifter away from Unchained Monk? Jason Bulmahn
Nerfs to Core Rogue initially? Jason Bulmahn
Nerfs to tumbling, rings of blinking, quick draw, sneak attack etc? Jason Bulmahn
Crane Wing Riposte nerf? Jason Bulmahn
Admitting to not playtesting things? Jason Bulmahn
Mounted Vital Strike etc. nerf? Jason Bulmahn
Medium spirits nerfed from 54 to 6? Jason BulmahnKnuckledusters in Adventurer's Armory? SKR
Knuckleduster nerf? Jason Bulmahn
Delegating Mark Seifter away from Unchained Monk? Jason Bulmahn
Nerfs to Core Rogue initially? Jason Bulmahn
Nerfs to tumbling, rings of blinking, quick draw, sneak attack etc? Jason Bulmahn
Crane Wing Riposte nerf? Jason Bulmahn
Admitting to not playtesting things? Jason Bulmahn
Mounted Vital Strike etc. nerf? Jason Bulmahn
Medium spirits nerfed from 54 to 6? Jason Bulmahn
Quickrunner's shirt errata? Jason Bulmahn
Ring of Ferocious Action errata? Jason Bulmahn
Brawling as a +3? Jason Bulmahn
Jingsa of the Fortunate Soldier nerf? Jason Bulmahn
Ultimate Equipment errata in general? Jason Bulmahn

>We can't fix balance in the system because we inherited it from 3.5 and god forbid we try and fix the problems in core.
>If we fix the problems in core, everyone will want the book that fixes them, and that'll be hard on new players
>Not that everyone will want it because it'll make the game better, and if the worst case scenario is they're playing the game as it currently exists, that IS the worst case scenario

>Fixing the problems would make the book we did it in necessary, and so a barrier to entry
>Despite all the rules going up on the internet for free in multiple places, one of which managed by us

Martials vs wizards

Ramuh got really really big.

Everyone loves to bitch about casters and martials, but what would actually be an appropriate way to fix it within the current paradigm?

They balance casters and martials to a completely different standard, AS A DESIGN GOAL, not even an accident!

The things they wanted most to "fix" about 3.5 was all the "overpowered" FIXES that late-3.5 got from WotC. It's top-priority to make sure that nothing like Tome of Battle or Complete Champion ever happens again.

They hate non-vancian magic systems passionately! Remember how wonderfully varied 3.5 was, with so many different types of magic and class-ability-usage mechanics to choose from that you could always find something fresh with a unique feel to play? They hated that too! Now it's all vancian all the time, even "psychic magic" for some reason.

"The feat rate in 3.5 is too slow, let's increase it!"
"Uh oh, the warriors have more feats to spend now, better split up existing feats and make tons of worthless ones be prerequisites for everything to compensate!"

They also think a giant FAQ on their website is a great place to put new game rules they expect everyone to know and follow.

You also can't completely remove JJ as much as most people would like, since he made the Alchemist which is god tier class design.

>We can't do it in errata
>We can't just publish a new core rulebook with the changes because...
>Because...
>Uh...
>That's just the way it is! We want martials to be good too!

Jesus was a carpenter, we still hung him from a cross.

I want to play a Promethean/Preservationist Alchemist||Kensai Magus. Yes it's basically two separate characters at once, but do I seriously need to explain myself?

ALTERNATIVELY, replace the Magus side with any of the following:
>Synthesist Summoner, take quadrupedal eidolon form, place homunculus on my back, RIDE TO BATTLE
>a fixed version of the Warlock Vigilante whose mystic bolts don't suck literal ass
>Master Summoner, only if it's a solo game, because I'm not inflicting this abomination on anyone
>Zweihander Sentinel, truly the most unlikely gestalt because no groups I find are willing to FUCKING USE PATH OF WAR

Give martials more toys. Namely ex and su abilities to allow them to replicate options casters have. Think like, Su strike abilities that can be used in place of an attack that can say paralyze/stun/unconscious a target or a swing their sword with an aoe cone/line. Also, abilities for non-combat. Access to flight is a big one for example.

Wasn't that JUST AS PLANNED though?

Change the paradigm.

JJ I don't mind so much.

He sort of strikes me as more of a bumbler, whereas Bulmahn is just... no.

What is the general consensus on the flesheater archetype for barbarians? it seems pretty interesting but I was wondering what others though

...

Yeah I don't understand it either. A pdf hosted on their site with corebook errata or even packaging a black and white printer paper packet with new physical copies of the core rulebook are both incredibly cheap alternatives that anyone who isn't Paizo would do years ago.

The thing is, they've thought about doing it and they simply don't care. Errata'ing a core book isn't an entry barrier unless you're the kind of person who shouldn't be playing TTRPGs at all.

I can understand not wanting to do huge changes purely in errata, but you can do a new edition of the core rulebook, and therefore that's the new book that all new players get anyways, making it no longer a barrier to entry.

>There are certain balance aspects and play considerations that we inherited from 3.5 and like it or not, we are stuck with them
>We the people who designed the system and have ultimate control over any and everything in the system are stuck with it

I forgot this image existed and I'd almost forgotten Bulmahn existed.

Holy Jesus
I don't think I've ever seen anything like this before in my life.

Wasn't the whole point of PF to make a not-broken version of 3.5?

Hey, which link in the PoW content had the PC werewolf?

>reasoned response
that monster.

>we are trying
>posted 5 years into publication

What's reasonable about that?

>>Wasn't the whole point of PF to make a not-broken version of 3.5?

No. The whole point of PF was to make a clone of 3.5 that could be sold for money while the OGL existed.

pretty much the entire thing.

I repeat

>Making a book that fixed it would make it necessary, despite all the rules being made available online for everyone to read.

Except for trying to balance around core.

>We are just trying to take care of the problems as we see them and as time allows

There was a problem with the Sleeves of Many Garments? I just thought they were a means to deploy fluffy princess dresses on command.

>Reasoned response
>Core book has easily identifiable, fixable problems, which Paizo is perfectly capable of actually doing something about in order to make the game both more enjoyable and balanced
>They absolutely refuse to do this ever under any circumstance
>They'll still totally put out errata though all the time, even though part of the reason they 'can't' is because they 'won't do errata' despite there being shitloads of errata all the time, including the recent severe nerfs to Ultimate Equipment for no real reason
>"Hurr hurr we're stuck with 3.5, even if we're actively saying we've divorced ourselves from it, there's TOOOOOTALLY no way that the actual developers of a game can change content to make things different" when they are literally the developers and that is indeed a thing they can do

They, LITERALLY, have the entirety of 3.5 and Pathfinder feedback to draw from. They have fans, actual fans not the braindead cocksuckers on the Paizo forums, that would gladly work for them at next to nothing or even fucking free in order to fix the issues.

But do they do that? FUCK NO, you goddamn idiot. They delete negative feedback on their boards, they censor anything they don't like, they ignore playtest data entirely, they brainwash their own 'fans' into ACTIVELY HATING the people who dare to look at the mechanics of the rules system they've built. Did you fucking SEE the kineticist playtest? It had THOUSANDS of posts of feedback, fully written up mathed-out explanations of why the class was bad, where it failed, and examples of how to fix it. All ignored.

Paizo is literally a vulture feasting on the corpse of 3.5. I sincerely hope that Buhlman and the two whores get syphilis and die painfully.

What's the deal with the srd? It isn't officially hosted by Paizo so how does the guy avoid not getting sued into taking the site down?

Because Pathfinder is OGL. Only Golarion is their property, so as long as he changes stuff to make it setting-neutral, it's 100% legal.

Open Gaming License.

You can't copyright games mechanics.

As long as he doesn't post anything considered 'Product Identity' by Paizo, he's well within his bounds.

Because the OGL is a thing, thankfully for us.

It isn't hosted by Paizo, no.

What you need to understand is that while Product Identity is owned by Paizo, the RULES are not.

3.5's rules were established under the Open Game License.

So rules are free to upload wherever you want, it's only Golarion shit that you can't. And like 80% of golarion sucks anyway.

Game mechanics cannot be copyright. The only thing that Paizo owns the rights to would be the names of people/places/lore they've created in their own fiction. Which is why you don't see any Golarion references on the SRD.

Except for suitably generic ones, like Hellknights.

Even if Signifier got renamed to Enforcer for some reason.

When even Paizo can't fucking make up their minds if it's Signifier or Signifer

If you had the opportunity to pave everything over, what sort of setting would you make for Pathfinder instead of Golarion, /pfg/? What would be most common races, what sort of cultures would there be, what type of firearms rules would exist if any, would you make lore for martial disciplines/martial traditions, how would you handle psionics, etc.

I don't think Golarion is bad as a setting, it's made for variety.

So I used to buy basically all the pathfinder books but kinda dropped the game after a while. I was in the game book part of a bookstore and saw ultimate intrigue. I didnt get a chance to read anything beyond the intro part with the chapter summaries. Does it actually work well as a social influence system?

in b4 qadira male-slavery hyperbole

I want mythic play. I would like to play a game where you can only gain new sparks by devouring the sparks of others. Start at level 1 and have an adventure hunting demi-gods.

Well, it made rap battles a thing.

variety is fine, but golarion is really irritating in how it's just a bunch of disjointed nations and gimmick states that really have fuckall to do with eachother. The pantheon and cosmology are sort of bland as well.

Yeah I can see that too. I don't use it myself because I guess it is pretty bland.

It's called Flyting, you pleb.

Ramuh is clearly a Blaster type caster though, Paizo hates his ilk slightly less than filthy martial.

You would drastically need to change the expectations of the game and the game world.

A gestalt semi-mythic game would be fun as fuck IMO. I say "semi-mythic" in the sense that I want to ignore literally everything but the very basic path abilities, mainly focusing on longevity and Divine Source, maybe adding in the ability to change your creature type along the way. Fuck everything else about mythic. Only have longevity kick in after mid levels (10-12), and after that you're basically wandering urban legends. By 14 or so you find little cults dedicated to you as you get your divinity, and your adventures have years between them. By later levels (17+) you've got a full blown religion that you can cultivate or ignore as you see fit.

I want an excuse to play a character that accidentally becomes a fey godling in their quest for adventure. Then have to figure out how to avoid pissing all the other deities off. Is that so much to ask?

Nothing fancy, just a pure Necromancer. Like from the 3.5 splat College of Necromancy kind of pure necromancy shit. Power hungry but not a cruel dick even if he views corpses as resources/learning material. And bonus points if I land in a party with a paladin who does not smite me immediately for one reason or another, leading to either rivalry or respect.

I don't get to play very many games.

If I had to be fancy probably a dark magical girl that punches shit, or a naga focused on charging things rapidly and biting the shit out of them with venomous teeth.

Warder using self made power armor and weapon to decimate his enemies and incorporate their body parts into his arsenal.

cute girl,

Or a Synthesist Summoner/Oracle VMC with Sedentary curse.
It'd be an old dwarf man who could barely move but when shit went down he'd conjure up a lex luthor style suit of rock golem and start smashing shit up with insane physical ability scores and mental ability scores.
His only weakness would be if his suit got dispelled he is just a crippled old man,

Who in the fuck decided it was good balance to force kineticists to have ALL appendages free in order to use Gather Power?

Why don't spellcasters also need ALL appendages free, huh? HUH?

just use a weapon cor

oh wait

Every time I see someone mention Xaser warsouls, my unfortunate purchase of that technology guide feels a little more vindicated.

At first I was just "my gods, it has a use!" but now, it's just "take that, you assholes that made them NPC-only cockteases"

A Psicrystal that dreams of being a space battleship one day.

Reactor-Knight // Eclipse

Even DSP didn't fix it with their two kineticist races, the ethumion and the other one.

One of them gets a telekinetic third hand, right, but EVEN THAT IS USELESS IF IT'S A KINETICIST BECAUSE IT HAS TO STAY EMPTY

cestus/spiked gauntlets still work if you want to always be armed for AoO/flanking purposes.

It's more like you can't even use a shield (except a shitass buckler, and even then you can't get the bonuses) or even hold a fucking potion.

Well, unhindered shield is a thing now.

you couldn't use a shield anyway (without eating huge penalties), kineticists don't get proficiency

Masterwork Buckler has no armor check penalty

A quickdraw throwing shield and a blinkback belt could work, if you got an ioun stone for proficiency.

Do they even have a proficiency for shields stone?

The ethumion actually looks kind of cool, can you think of any reason (like the aasimar and tieflings with their alternate outsider parents) to have variant stats on them? I kind of want one that's con dex but wouldn't know how it would change otherwise.

Quick question: what is the rule on using maneuvers while in a grapple? And stances?

and a buckler lets you use your hand, so it wouldn't conflict with kineticist anyway.

Stances stay on. I think maneuvers would fall under special things you can't do? I can't remember if grapple is a blacklist or whitelist of actions.

To be fair, the telekinetic third hand is an ART. Normally they just get concentrationless Mage Hand, which would still work fine on kineticists.

What DSP really needs is to give us a kineticist-themed Glove of the Master Strategist from 3.5. It was even written by a paizo dev, they should totally port it over.

What is the purpose of the Veiled Illusionist's capstone's list of abilities you can gain, when nothing you can turn into has them?

"If disguised as a humanoid using her veil pool ability, the veiled illusionist gains the benefit of alter self. If disguised as a cyclops or naga, she gains a +4 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 natural armor bonus, and any of the following abilities possessed by the creature whose form she has taken: burrow 30 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 90 feet (good maneuverability), swim 90 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, ferocity, guarded thoughts, poison, and spit. The effect lasts for a number of minutes equal to the veiled illusionist's level if she is disguised as a humanoid, or rounds per level if disguised as a cyclops or naga."

The way I read it, you only gain the abilities if you turn into a naga or cyclops, but most of the abilities on the list aren't something a naga or a cyclops has. Is the intention that you should be able to gain the abilities even if you're using the ability to assume any humanoid form, if the form you're taking normally has that ability?

Well, if that's the case.

What about warlord gambits? Specifically, if I declared the grapple gambit, could I use the roll to maintain control of a grapple to fulfill the gambit?

Is grapple a whitelist or a blacklist of actions?

I... am not sure what you mean. There's things you can do in a grapple that aren't directly related to the grapple, but I'm not terribly sure about the specifics.

Does grapple go "you can do [only] these things while grappling?" If so, then that's what can be done and ONLY what can be done. A whitelist of actions takeable.

Or, instead, does it go "you can't do these things while grappling?" If so, then anything not on that list is fair game.

I'm afb and can't check myself.

I recall one of the devs saying you can't do maneuvers while grappled.

>"Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple)."

Welp.

On the other hand, gambits are a swift action and not a maneuver, whereas maintaining a grapple is a standard action. For that matter, something like Encouraging Roar doesn't seem to need your limbs free to use, just your lungs and mouth.

This is complicated.