I have no problem with a setting with kitsune. What I do have problem with is a fantasy setting with everything. Why a traditional fantasy setting with strict limitation to Humans, Elves and Dwarfs are nice is because it forces the players to make their own story and not just pump it up with more and more random things. I also get irritated with people claiming "my elves are much more interesting because they do not follow the rules of traditional elves". This is why fantasy is generally considered a low class story form, because fantasy people generally just focuses on making an interesting setting rather then interesting characters and interesting interactions. No one (okay, some people I guess) would say that some of the millions of normal books that are sold today is boring because all the characters are just normal people.
Its legitimately fascinating how inaccurate this post is. And yet, its not quite to the threshold that your average bait would reach.
Gavin Gray
But do you have a problem with fluffy tail?
Evan Davis
Whatever happened to classic fantasy? Nobody wants to play humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings any more... they want to play characters straight from Deviant Art, like this...
>angelic choir singer of light, kitsune illusionist and foxfire pyromancer, dullahan gunslinger and spirit speaker, and graceful kirin doctor and swashbuckler working together to beat down the misguided fool trying to end the concept of nighttime and then make friends with the former villain over tea and cookies.
We all like classic fantasy races because they've got a strong legacy behind them, inspired by mythology... They make underdog heroes who beat impossible odds... fighting monsters and killing threats no man should reasonably be able to kill.
The classic races aren't defined by cheap gimmicks or WHAT they are... they're defined by WHO they are. They make believable, relatable characters we can all understand. We need relatable heroes we can cheer for in high fantasy... not demons. Not angels. Not spirits. Not fairies. Not kitsune...
In my experience, the ones who play things like kitsune and angels are always WORSE roleplayers than the ones who play dwarves and elves.
I've found that if you limit people to playing classic fantasy races, they'll think about their characters more and roleplay better... because restriction breeds creativity. When I DM, I restrict races to classic fantasy races, and even the bad players suddenly roleplay better.
Classic fantasy needs to be appreciated more... get back to the roots of it all, with humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings. Anyone else agree?
Adrian Lewis
The "standard" fantasy is just degenerated tolkein and more than any kitchen sink is fantasy at its absolute lowest.
Thomas Clark
Why not also cut elves and dwarves?
What exactly is a traditional elf? D&D? Tolkien?
Brandon Perez
Funny how the line for what makes a race about who you are and what just happens to align with the races you have nostalgia for. I'm sure it's a coincidence, not conformation bias, and that there's good reason it's four races and also those specific four, when by the same logic playing only humans is enough.
Luke Howard
>Whatever happened to classic fantasy? Nobody wants to play humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings any more... "Classic Fantasy" isn't a setting. That's Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings is a setting. If you don't want to play Lord of the Rings then there's no reason to use all of those things.
>We all like classic fantasy races because they've got a strong legacy behind them, inspired by mythology... They make underdog heroes who beat impossible odds... fighting monsters and killing threats no man should reasonably be able to kill. You like them because that's what D&D defaults to and that's what you grew up with.
>The classic races aren't defined by cheap gimmicks or WHAT they are... they're defined by WHO they are. They make believable, relatable characters we can all understand. We need relatable heroes we can cheer for in high fantasy... not demons. Not angels. Not spirits. Not fairies. Not kitsune... LotR races are the ultimate cheap gimmick and defined precisely by what they are: Skinny humans, short humans, tiny humans, ugly humans, big humans, etc and so on. Each one relies on broad stereotypes that define their entire races.
>In my experience... In MY experience you're a faggot.
>I've found that if you limit people to playing classic fantasy races, they'll think about their characters more and roleplay better... because restriction breeds creativity. When I DM, I restrict races to classic fantasy races, and even the bad players suddenly roleplay better. Have you considered the possibility that you are probably viewing LotR-races characters with some bias? Your post makes it sound like the average catgirl doesn't get a fair shake.
>Classic fantasy needs to be appreciated more... get back to the roots of it all, with humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings. Anyone else agree? Katanas are underpowered in d20. See my new stat block.
Oh good. My copypasta detector was working after all.
Carter Hughes
You are a fucking retard. Mainstream fantasy has moved beyond elves orcs and dwarves and the current biggest trend is gritty settings with flawed, human characters with barely any fantasy races in sight.
People who read forgotten realms novels and play D&D need to just punch themselves in the mouth whenever they get the urge to make a sweeping comment on the state of fantasy in general.
D&D players are like the Amish of fantasy. A strange, backwards offshoot that keeps to itself and has really strange ideas about what the rest of the world is like.
Ethan Lewis
That's some tasty pasta you have there, m80.
John Cox
Because we've been playing "Classic fantasy" for the past thirty fucking years
Tyler Williams
>This is why fantasy is generally considered a low class story form, because fantasy people generally just focuses on making an interesting setting rather then interesting characters and interesting interactions. This is an unsupported conclusion.
>Restrictions give birth to creativity. I agree with this sentiment completely. The specific restrictions themselves are less important than the refining of the concepts.
Brandon Hall
>Anime and fanfic inspired races. Nope.
/a/utismos and weeatrash are wastes of oxygen.
Kevin Cox
Short answer: They are FUKKIN boring.
I hate the bog standard "fantasy" setting. If I have to see one more "Aliance of Men, Dwarves, and Elves" save the world from one more goddamned "Necromantic Threat", "Cult of Elemental Exclusionism", or Orc Horde I'm going to turn green... And then the "Rag-tag group of goblins/orcs/kobolds/other-mook-vermin getting into hijinks" got old and now the entierty of the horse turned pink meat-slurry that was the collected works of JRR Tolkien turns my stomach.
TL;DR The "Standard Fantasy Setting" is lazy and unoriginal and if you use it in it's trite and tired form you lack a semblance of creativity.
Alexander Cruz
Gygax and Arneson both added all kinds of random shit to their games. The first ever "official D&D setting," first called just The Known World, and later given the name of Mystara, had a nuclear reactor deep beneath the ground and cave elves worshiping a nuclear physicist. Then they revealed that the planet was actually hollow and there were civilizations and species rescued from the brink of destruction within, with ancient Egyptians and dinosaurs being the two things that stick in my mind.
This, by the way, is the world where Dave Arneson's Blackmoor campaign, which was THE FIRST FANTASY RPG CAMPAIGN EVER, occurred.
Conan and Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser are as old as Lord of the Rings, and neither of them is about humans, dwarves, and elves.
Fantasy should be weird and mysterious. The whole point is that it's bizarre and strange and exciting. It's wondrous.
Cooper Moore
I think the problem with fantasy is that while it's not truly any less formulaic than, say, action movies or any other genre with strong conventions, it's a lot harder to cover that fact up by swapping out the window dressing. No one cares if you take your Klingons, make them fat lizard people, change some other details and call them Krogan. You're kind of supposed to. But give your elves four arms and blue skin and call them something totally new and you're "trying too hard to be different." That problem gets compounded by lazy writers who decide that having a novel idea or two means they have to put absolutely no work into anything else, because having the concept of a "standard fantasy world" makes it way too easy.
Christ, can you imagine the reaction if someone posted this to Veeky Forums as their original setting? >Mystara? Why not call it "Fantasyville" you unimaginative fuck? >Hollow planets are cliche and don't make any sense >Nuclear reactors aren't fantasy, dipshit >Hollow earth filled with Egyptians? Stop ruining based Deutsche Physik with SJW garbage >What a load of try-hard garbage. Why can't people just play classic fantasy settings like Gygax intended?
Jonathan Garcia
>TL:DR
Dominic Cruz
I think OP made some decent points, actually. The whole thing is a lot more bitchy than it needed to be, but it's a lesson some people genuinely need to learn. Part of the reason the Star Wars prequels sucked so much is that when you can do almost literally everything as CGI there's nothing stopping you from making a vapid, overblown spectacle.
Nathaniel Howard
Tolkien has almost nothing to do with any of the things you mentioned
It's okay not to like that kind of fantasy, but just say Tolkienesque or Tolkien-inspired, I'm betting most the people who use "Tolkien" as a synonym for D&D don't know who Melkor, Fëanor, Fingolfin, Eärendil, Beren, Lúthien etc. despite them being some of the most important characters on the setting (and if memory serves all are mentioned in even LotR, especially Beren and Lúthien, since Aragorn literally tells a story which is essentially a summary of the quest for the silmaril)
Lucas Harris
>implying that freedom leads to bad things Amuurrrica disagrees
Aaron Phillips
>cut elves and dwarves personally i don't go into my players' circumcision or lack thereof
