Exalted

>When it comes to crunch; that is the least important part at this moment for me. it can be easily changed.
I'm pretty sure that, for most people, fluff is the part that's easy to change while crunch is hard. Focusing on the fluff to begin with is probably a good idea, though, because fluff is where the real draw of Exalted is.

Let me save you some time, the devs will be using Scavenger Sons, Blood & Salt, and Games of Divinity. So read those.

I'd quibble a bit about the roles, but people have to some degree answered that. So let me instead try answering how the two might do the same thing, but in very different ways.

The Night Caste is relatively straightforward: she uses her superb Investigation to uncover that someone is plotting a conspiracy and to get clues as to where to go next, then her Stealth to sneak around looking for plotters, her Awareness to overhear a plotter talking and recognize the voice, then her Larceny to disguise herself as the plotter, and finally her Socialize to maintain her cover when infiltrating the conspiracy in this disguise.

The Lunar, on the other hand, is intuitively attuned to the pulse of his society, and he senses that someone is dancing hesitantly and out of tune at the great festival. Jumping to a conclusion, yet confident its correctness, he surmises that someone here is disloyal and their hearts aren't in it. With his Perception charms he smells for fear or hate, or reads people's Intimacies and social ties off their souls, then with a glance inspects their other capabilities to see who is weak-willed and easily bullied out or replaced. Turning into a pigeon, albatross or other common bird of the region, he hides in plain sight as he follows a plotter back to the plotter's home. There he turns back into human, and without saying a word, dances the plotter into standing still and forgetting this encounter entirely. The Lunar then bites the plotter lightly, simultaneously injecting a soporific venom and stealing the plotter's shape, and replaces his victim and infiltrates the conspiracy that way. Maintaining his cover is easy - he has the plotter's every skill and memory at his immediate mental disposal!

(All Lunar capabilities here are based on their 2e corebook+errata.)

Is exalted the system I want to use to replicate high flying action based games or political based no-combat games?

It accommodates both high-flying action and political intrigue, but is at its best when on is used to lead to or support the other. Its social combat system is at worst inoffensive, which is the best I can really say about any social combat system.

Thanks for the info but that doesn't change my plan. 1st ed has 36 books. 2nd ed has 33 books.

As I said I'm currently into fluff. And having 60+ books is more than enough for my current needs. By the time I finish those and they finally release 3rd edition ones I'll read those as well. And if 3rd edition fluff is better then I'll jump that ship in a heartbeat but I don't plan to wait for years for devs to rewrite things they already written and when I have tons of material. Even if it is bad material. If I like something I'll use it. If I don't like it I'll change it or won't use it.

that is actually pretty informational. Thanks

Unrelated to fluff but question for crunch. As game progresses and players come into higher level power does combat become a process where everyone one-shots each other where everyone implodes or explodes from damage taken?

I assume you're talking about the 3E social influence system here, as the 2E version was kind of crap. 3E's social rules are solid in my experience, though.

I am. 2E didn't accommodate anything.

>Scavenger Sons, Blood & Salt, and Games of Divinity.
Doon't forget Manacle & Coin.

Tell me about Szoreny, Veeky Forums

>Yeah, they had to drop that when tumblr got offended that a paraplegic can't be a hero of old slaying the creators of the world.
Or maybe because playing a blind swordsman or a hook-handed pirate or a crippled sorcerer is really badass and cool and that fluff undermined it.

No, I'm pretty sure that only tumblrites like things the user in question dislikes.

So, if you were a Sidereal tasked with fucking up a Circle of Solars before they get to be a problem, how'd you go about it? Let's assume there's only 1 of each Caste and they've each got a reasonable amount of charms for their Caste abilities along with each of them being combat-capable and around Essence 1-2.You yourself are Essence 3-4, probably know a handful of Sidereal Martial Arts charms, and have got back up in the form of Wyld Huntsmen; you've got a handful of experienced Dragon-bloods as well as a good Size 3-4 group of mortals assisting.

My first question is "what's the acceptable collateral damage?" In terms of people, environment, fate disruption, etc.

Supposing reasonable levels of that, my plans will likely involve a lot of BIG-ASS TRAPS. Solars riding across a ford? THE FORD IS NOW A TIDAL WAVE. Solars riding near a cliff? THE CLIFF IS NOW AN AVALANCHE. Solars visiting the temple people put up in their honor? THE TEMPLE EXPLODES. WHILE FALLING INTO A PIT. Use things the Solars can't stab.

Turn them against each other, sow distrust and suspicion, use Sorcerous Workings to create powerful enemies, separate one from the group and exploit weaknesses, so on and so forth.

I'd ask why this issue was only being brought to my attention now. If a perfect Circle of Solars has been allowed to meet, become allies and advance to Essence 2 together, I'd say they've already become a problem.

Buy, beg, borrow, steal or Work some way to get Cirrus Skiff to carry more people; or find some similar replacement spell, Celestial if you need.
Find out the Solars' itinerary. At some point where they are traveling overland and do not have convenient mountains to hide under nearby, have a party sorcerer cast Cirrus Skiff. (Can be a DB sorcerer, can be me posing as mortal sorcerer, since this role doesn't require much in the way of dicepool or flash.) Stick the Wyld Hunt aboard the Cirrus Skiff (this is why step 1 is necessary, CS normally only carries 2 people), have their archers rain feathered death down on the Solars, have the guy with the highest Parry defend other on the archer(s).

This is the core strategy that will hopefully neuter whatever Solars aren't Archery specialists right off the bat. Various refinements include:
Set some of the mortals to attempting to sabotage or steal the Solars' bows that morning
Anything that helps the parryman parry and defend other better
Terrestrial Ability Reinforcement to make entire wyld hunt great archers
Do this near obvious cover that the Solars can break for, set up an ambush/trap there
Summon demon archers if your wyld hunt is shit at archery
Summon demon parry meatshields to cover your archers (flying demons can in both cases relieve the stress on Cirrus Skiff)
Hell, just take a month beforehand to summon a legion of demons to set on the solars

>Ess 3 or 4
>only a "handful" of MA charms
Kill myself because I doubt I'm doing Sidereal properly

Obviously divide the group, sow distrust, and try to kill them one by one

But really, do all I can to not carry out that task, because Solars are the only genuine hope left for Creation. The Gold faction is right.

>Not just mates as in political marriages or genuine marriage born of love but things like "blood brothers", mentors, true friendship, any of those romantic ideas that can help Solar to excel, improve and unleash his full potential.

This can work. And sometimes that mentoring style gets a little weird, as one might expect from a master shapeshifter. For example showing up without warning in some weird monstrous form (marilith, drider, centaur, etc) and picking a fight to first blood. "Just checking to see if you're still paying attention." After all, any Solar worth their salt should be prepared to deal with monster attacks out of nowhere, right? >:-D

Need some advices on reskinning vanilla Exalted 3e setting to "Mighty Wasteland Badasses Who Have A Lot Of Dakka And Fastest Red Cars To Fightin With Old Robots, Nuclear Horrors And More Badassed Badasses"
Where to start? And what hardest thing to reskin will be?
Animas and charms planned to use as.

Decent strategy. Works for the Tarrasque and such. Anti-climactic dick move, of course, which may be why there is no spell in the core book that allows you to do this.

Assuming you could do that, "if" one or more of the Solars is a sorcerer and hits your Skiff or Skiff-substitute with a Distortion then they're going to be able to casually walk away from you if you use a mortal sorcerer. Having to keep up with them with Wits + Occult -3 makes the dice pool for the sorcerer important.

Manacle and Coin is fantastic for getting an idea for how economies work in Creation.

If you want some knowledge straight from the writers' mouths go to exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/WriterQuotes and read the "Thus Spake Zaragrabowski" and "Thus Spake Zaraborgstrom" sections. It's full of setting information direct from the people who made the original game and the best parts of it too

Warning for those who started with 2e. it may not agree with your horrible, warped view of the setting.

1e babies can never stop their edition wars, can they?

To Szoreny, the concept of enemy and friend are not opposite but rather identical. As such, he approves of amiability towards people who are trying to kill you and vice versa.

Well, you'll need to tear out ride and replace it with drive, and maybe archery with guns.

Shards of the Exalted Dream reskinned 2E Exalted for sci-fi settings or modern technology settings, but nothing like it exists for 3E yet.

I'll stop when the writers make a better edition.

Go back to SV

its not even really mates, they could just as easily be the solar's wildman friend. like solar gilgamesh and lunar enkidu

Exploit the Solars' intrinsic tendency towards extremes of temperament and megalomania (read: their Great Curse) to divide the party, mostly by fucking with Fate and Destiny and so on.

Then, when they're pissed and divided, KILL THE TWILIGHT FIRST

>>Chargen software: anathema.github.io/
is this better than ed's exalted toolkit?

>Unrelated to fluff but question for crunch. As game progresses and players come into higher level power does combat become a process where everyone one-shots each other where everyone implodes or explodes from damage taken?

in 2nd ed definitely yes. its dice hell to roll(use a roller program or you'll literally be throwing 50 dice) and you die without perfect parry. 2.5 tried to fix it, 3 is *supposed* to be better but I haven't had the chance to play and see how much of the dice bloat was fixed and how much is the fanbase reacting to new car smell ;)

social combat is extra dice hell ;)

>social combat is extra dice hell ;)
Why would you willingly play 2e?

giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?138409-Exalted-Szoreny-the-Silver-Forest
1d4chan.org/wiki/Szoreny_Infernal_Charms
rathess.xi.co.nz/exalted/index.php/Szoreny_(Riklurt)
forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/60002-brainstorming-isidoros-and-szoreny-charmsets/page2

Does any one have any good stories involving Sidereal Astrology, or just Sidereals in general?

didn't celestial circle have the next level cloud? so you've got access but can't cast it without problems, and most things that expanded on the terrestrial cloud kinda step on that tier's toes...depends on the st i guess

3 /only/ has solars ;)

We never really resolved the whole "not dying in space" thing, but I think the closest answer would be a load of Resistance and Stamina because that's how environmental stuff is resisted. It would be something like three or four rolls just to be out in space for a minute (depending on location, of course). Theoretically, if a Solar was willing to blow lots and lots of motes on the Resistance Excellency, he could be outside in space for upwards of an hour, but nothing beyond that.

So? Play a homebrew of whatever splat you like or some shit. Fuck 2e.

...at least do 2.5 dude

I don't even see how that's an argument. It's like refusing to move into a house because all of your stuff is in the sewer.

Basically this. Just make the Dawn Caste keep limit breaking near his party until they either all die trying to put him down or limit break themselves. A party full of Limit Broken Solars will probably end up self-destructing in a spectacular and horrible way.

I don't understand White Reaper's Flickering Corona Barrier. How can you use it after the opponent's attack if it reduces the dice in their attack roll?

>What is the difference between Solar Night Caste and Lunar Exalted? I'm not asking about charm, powers and alike. I'm talking about their role in the setting.
Nothing, really. It's one of the flaws of the setting that's basically impossible to address because the only role people consistently associate with Nights is that of assassin, even though they're really supposed to me more like Varys the Spider.

With that said, the failure is more with the imagination of the storytellers and players than it is with the writing itself, which does go to lengths to try to establish the Nights are more than simply assassins, but they're fighting an uphill battle against the rule of cool there.

In all ways that matter, Lunars are the most perfect assassin conceivable. An assassin who can simply become the target and betray their associates before getting killed is far, far more valuable than someone who murders people and then has to either a) cover it up or b) doesn't bother to cover it up.

>if it reduces the dice in their attack roll?

It... doesn't. Defense is a difficulty, not a penalty.

>tfw playing a Night Caste thief who actively rejects assassin work or even killing on the job, much like Garrett from the Thief series

Well, 3e's did a bit better in changing that. Larceny and Socialize are pretty good for Nights that don't wanna just kill everybody, as Larceny lets you become a criminal mastermind and Socialize turns you into the deepest cover spy.

The part that removes the battlegroup's (size) bonus to the attack wouldn't apply if you activated it after the roll.

The mastery bonus is strong because you can wait and see what your opponent rolls on his attack, then use that charm and add parry as needed.

If you're going with that angle, then Lunars are no more assassins then Night caste are.

> An assassin who can simply become the target and betray their associates before getting killed

A Solar with appropriate investment (Flawlessly impenetrable disguise, the performance charm to change your voice) is better at doing that than a Lunar.

The difference is a Solar needs to invest, a Lunar just can

>A Solar with appropriate investment (Flawlessly impenetrable disguise, the performance charm to change your voice) is better at doing that than a Lunar.
Please stop, you enormous faggot.

Or I will be forced to point out you're wrong because Fate.

realistically point them at bigger threats. Try and vear them into that once city which acts as the base for a huge yozi cult, try and get them tangled up in some deathlords plot. Basically try and set up a win win scenario for myself

So, I statted up Fuujin from World Trigger as a Reaper Daiklave; any comments?
docs.google.com/document/d/11k6Z_iS9qv2bXxYavlfOLDKWVz1TyJnnSfl9C3xg3zY/edit?usp=sharing

What the fuck?

What?

>Or I will be forced to point out you're wrong because Fate.

I can't wait.

Which is completely do-able and to be encouraged.

It did no better and no worse, really, although it did expend more effort beating STs and players over the head with examples of not being an assassin. Which, 700 pages, I guess?

Don't be stupid.

The first evocation is insanely powerful. I mean, it's expensive but being able to casually throw out 6 onslaught like that murders anything without a penalty negator.

You can also follow it with a Ferocious Jab enhanced Brawl attack for +6 decisive damage at Essence 1. Well worth 10 motes.

None of the Lunar castes are about assassination. You have your trickster/social types (Changing Moons), Warriors (Full Moon), and sorcerers (Full Moon).

Nights seem to have more of an assassin focus, whereas any Lunar is just plain good at it because shapeshifting is basically perfect for assassins

Re-iterating: don't be stupid.

You countered your own argument there without even presenting a good one for Nights as assassins.

At Essence 5, but that's still really good. Should I change it to an instantaneous defense penalty?

No, you're being retarded. You claim that the Night Caste, as a whole, embodies more than assassination - I agree with this. Assassin is still right in the Night Caste portfolio.

You go to lengths to distance Nights from being assassins based on setting material, then say that Lunars are the perfect assassins even though the setting material goes a long way to making them more than simple assassins!

Here is what the corebook says about the Night Caste:

The Solars of the Night Caste are the hidden hands of the Unconquered Sun—they fight the enemies of righteousness on their foes’ terms, using the arts of spycraft and assassination to bring their quarry low.

Huh, that sounds like Nights as assassins is part of their theme.

A Night Caste with appropriate investment is a better assassin than a Lunar, because after a certain point Solar infiltration and disguise charms are just better than the raw versatility of shapeshifting for the purpose of assassination.

The point isn't to denigrate Lunars, a Solar assassin with a ton of social/stealth/larceny investment isn't as versatile as a shapeshifter who can become amazing at athletics, combat, or whatever else by just taking a new form.

When you argue so hard you scream right past correct and on to wrong.

Good work.

As a followup, I would say that in 95% of situations they are exactly equal because you almost never need 10 charms to carry out an assassination

"You're wrong" isn't a valid argument after kindergarten, you actually have to prove your point mate. Try again.

Nice job not even presenting an argument you brain dead Lunar fanboy.

Lunar superfans are seriously the worst.

You intensely autistic cunts need to learn to read.

>It's one of the flaws of the setting that's basically impossible to address because the only role people consistently associate with Nights is that of assassin

You are the problem.

I just said the Night caste is about more than assassination you moron.

>address because the only role people consistently associate with Nights is that of assassin

How is it a setting flaw? Thats a flaw on the part of the playerbase. That said, they are correct that assassin is a totally valid Night role.

Then you said:
>You countered your own argument there without even presenting a good one for Nights as assassins.

What the fuck is this? There is a ton of setting material presenting Nights as assassins.

Frankly, the core argument is about that Nights and Lunars are different, and this whole thing is an insanely stupid digression that you started.

I'm new to the Exalted setting and system, but have played WoD games so I understand the basics of the system of dots and such. Even so, I have a question;

I noticed a Merit called Command, where depending on your points invested equals command over a group (up to and including an army apparently), but I was wondering, should I invest in other abilities, social ones, to support this merit? Or can I just take points in Command and still use it effectivly? I didn't plan on making a social character to begin with.

The difference is that the Night will be absolutely terrific at the whole 'stealth/disguise/subterfuge/being-a-sneaky-git-general' thing, while Lunars will suck shit at it.

That voice imitating charm is only scene long, so the solar would need to basically constantly be spending essence to mimic someone.

You CAN get by with just Command, but it doesn't really unlock its full potential unless you invest in War, a little bit of Presence/Performance for controlling their morale and actions during downtime (they are human beings after all).

Same way an Ally is an Ally, but a suave smooth-talker will be able to get his allies to do more than someone who's more average: they're both your friends, but one friend is just more convincing than the other.

War is an ability for directing units in battle I suppose?

Or you could pass some kind of difficulty check with modifiers for how well you know X character's voice using performance. Thats just an example - there are a lot of tools for infiltration/assassination

Correct.

Alright cool, thanks for the info.

They won't suck shit at it. In the vast majority of scenarios they'll be just as good as a Night because when do you really need that extra non-charm success or whatever the fuck.

The greater mechanical strength (not really that much greater) of the solar charms relative to shapeshifting + lunar charms is irrelevant because you almost never need it.

So you completely lose one of its best uses because of RAW.

If you're fighting a BG, why wouldn't you use it immediately? Negating 5 attack dice for 2m is insanely strong.

Plus the only easy way to gain Halos is to fight BGs, so they'll be flowing like water. Spend the shit out of them

There's no other way to write that charm, so I'm not sure why you're complaining about RAW. Declaring extra defenses after an attack roll is still massively advantageous. Think how disappointed you'd be if you dropped three halos on a parry when you didn't actually need to, or when it didn't make a difference?

Well, I've just hatched a plot to turn a raksha we've just recruited to our side into an Ishvara so it can fight a Primordial with us. I think I've hit peak Twilight Caste here.

This. Either the threat kills them, thus ending the solar problem, or they kill the threat, thus ending that problem. And if you're lucky the surviving side will be weak enough you can now bring it down yourself. Or find another threat to point it at.

Let me tell you what MY Twilight did. Our 2.5 (can it) campaign has had us supporting a rebellion in the Lap. After driving off the occupying forces, we started fortifying and waiting for the invasion fleet to arrive with the Realm's reinforcements. My ST later confided that he was planning a big awesome siege event to cap out the story, but it was at that time that my Twilight received one of his past incarnation's spellbooks.

As I was digging my way through the sorcery book, I noticed a spell called The Parting of the Seas, which caught my imagination. Some of you might recall me asking here about that spell. Well, I pitched my idea to the circle, and they loved it. We would fly on Agates in a miles-deep trench in the ocean, hidden by a few Eristrufas, illusionist mist-demons. We sailed right up to the fleet unchallenged, and then, when the trench passed through a ship, we flew under it in our demon wasps so the Zenith could punch their rudders off. We crippled/sank five ships that way before they figured out what we were doing.

I was afraid that they would dispell The Parting of the Seas and we'd drown, but what actually happened was that the Dynasts' bound elementals, the air spirit bears from the corebook, blew on the mist and dispersed it enough to reveal us. We also got a clear look at them - the Dynasts are RIDING the bears. So rather than a drawn-out siege, we're going to have a midair battle with some Dynasts, us on demon-waspback, them on elemental-bearback, after which we'll drop firedust bombs on a few more of their ships and escape.

>Let me tell you what MY Twilight did. Our 2.5 (can it) campaign has had us supporting a rebellion in the Lap.

Strangely enough, the players in my 3E campaign just caused basically the complete extinction of life in the Lap - the South is also getting very hungry.

It's totally fine to read the old editions for fluff, but you'll have a much better time if you combine those with 3rd edition's crunch, the games run really smoothly now, and it's not that hard to mix the fluff.

which book would i look in for 2ed taumaturgy?

old mcdonalds codex.

Please, do go on, I'm interested in wtf you're talking about.