WarmaHordes General

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Sweet, that's one buff to Cetrati. Keep 'em coming.

It's a buff to a lot of Shield Wall troops.

I don't give a FUCK about your troops.

>tfw Cryx has no shied wall

PP shitting on Cryx again by buffing everyone else.

47389505
Corrosion doesn't care about shield wall

>A-BLOO-BLOO-BLOO

So, the paingiver taskmaster now has a 3 inch passive tough bubble for living minions, cmd 7 for no sleeping on the job, still hands out +2 str.

While this is a nerf to some units (croaks and swamp shamblers namely), since gators got tough and slaughterhousers likely will keep tough, they will run better than before because tough, steady, and +2 str will always be on.

The other major thing though is this is HUGE for skorne's minion solo game.

Tough and steady orin, saxon, wrong eye (and his beasts are steady), etc. The tough aura being passive gives the task master way more flexibility, and it costs 3 points.

This is a skorne change I can get behind.

Yes, the point was that Corrision dealt with high ARM troops, while fire dealt with low ARM troops.

Also:

>My 8 box shield wall troops don't give a FUCK about corrosion.

Anything about those Thorn Gunmages (Or that Merc Caine 3?)

Cryx never had Shield Wall. Who the fuck cares?

The BB caster for Skorne plays super fucking well with Minions also, which also helps their game.

Speaking of corrosion, with all the cryx nerfs going around I wouldnt be surprised if it became a little bit better and more effective against beasts and jacks. Right now it's just a bad version of fire.

Yeah.

But like. Imagine this shit.

Agonizer giving +2 arm vs melee. Wrong Eye casting Star-Crossed in the middle of your line. Task Master giving him tough, and any minions around you steady. Anything you have in that area is going to be impossible to kill in melee.

Don't you mean your 5 box troops.
Whomp whomp
Or your speed 2 mow

I play Convergence.

Didn't know they actually existed.

Why would you ever expect Shield Wall in Cryx? It's not their style at all.

Also, continue to cry.

The change to placing models is already a big enough accidental buff, eat shit. Mordikaar's Revive is basically useless against Cryx now.

>Revive a Cetrati
>It can't attack because it's only just been placed
>You just corrode it to death
>Revive a Cetrati
>It can't attack because it's only just been placed
>You just corrode it to death

Bringing back Cetrati was one of Mordikaar's best tricks. Now it's fucking useless against Cryx because that Cetrati can't get an attack in before dying again.

Did we ever hear what the points cost was on the Bomber?

Bombers + Mauler seem like it's the way to go in a BG heavy meta.

Because Cetrati are good against Cryx?

Mord changed a lot, he feels like he's an anti-Hordes caster now, with some play into soul mechanic armies like Constance or the tree.

Corrosion is way less common than fire.

>cryx has a lot of corosion
only in lists with Mobious and what used to be eGaspy who now you just won't ever have to face

It's 16 points I think.

The Blitzer is 16 points, I don't think we've heard the PC on the Bomber.

I find it hard to believe it would be the same cost as the Blitzer.

Man, 15 point Maulers with 16 point Bombers would be insane with Bombers being MAT6 base.

Taking gun beasts and then having them be able to anchor in melee once everything has engaged is kind of OP.

It's not that Cetrati are good against Cryx; it's that they're now WORSE against Cryx.

And everything else to be fair.

Usually we used arcuarii with mordikaar for revive though. But all of them are worse other than incindiarii.

And now we'll use Ferox.

Make sure to buy your expensive as fuck models that you never needed before now, goy!

>Ferox plastic kit announced next month

Beyond that, Ferox aren't so good as to be auto include.

>Ferox aren't so good as to be auto include
Name the Skorne infantry that IS.

Now he'll probably just revive karax. All revive is good for is jamming, may as well jam with something cheap. Karax is going to see more play than cetrati now.

Nihilators stayed the same and got cheaper, so yea.

Croak raiders

Croaks aren't going to be tough anymore with the task master, and I hear they're dropping to pow 10s.

Yeah, at this point I struggle to think of a buff that I'd prefer on the Cetrati over the Karax. Even Defenders Ward I think I'd prefer on them, giving them that sweet spot 16 defense on the charge, and with an Agonizer behind them 22 is hard for a lot of people to crack even on the charge.

Plus venethrax lost cont corrosion. Sadface.

Cetrati have that UA and can actually put out damage.

Any word on Bushwackers?

UA cranks their cost up even further, and Cetrati don't usually do serious damage aside from unjamming themselves and being a brick in a zone, you know? When I reached for them it was for a tenacious unit that I could trust to keep a zone on lockdown. I think, point for point, Karax are better at that now. If it is possible as MKIII develops I will find a *different* role that the Cetrati fill better than other in faction options and they will be used for that, but I'm not terribly optimistic for them. I would like to be wrong though.

It could be that the boxes Cetrati have let them JUST survive the templates that'll be raining down for long enough to work some magic.

Well yeah. Karax have girded though and are just straight immune to that crap.

Oh. Heh.

I think the issue with Cataphracts going into Mk3 is that all of the units are 6 models, while most multiwound units are 5 models, but our point costs were about the same... So the things are being rebalanced to account for the extra model, PP has just failed to clarify that.

Except they're more expensive.

Cetrati are the same points per model as warders, but objectively worse by any measure.

No they are not objectively worse. Wardes have no wm.
Also we don't know the full extent of support in skorne and trolls to fully compare how they will actually play on the table.

I wouldn't say that.

Sacred Ward makes them really

Sacred Ward if you pay out another 5 or 6 points for a UA, sure.

Incindiarii and Arcurii are 9 points for 6 models. Warders are 8 points for 5 models, Gators are 9 for 5... Cetrati are expensive, but it sounds like Vorkesh is getting better.

And Shield Walled armor 22 cetrati at the center line on the top of 1 are probably arguably better than warders, in that situation.

Those are mk2 costs.

Warders are 17 in mk3, cetrati 20. That puts warders are 3.4 per model and cetrati at 3.33 per model, so really the same cost.

Sacred Ward is pretty well worth those 5 or 6 points.

Any pGaspy spoilers posted yet?

Hell i cant decide which army to pick - circle or trollbloods. Others are Holy Protectorate of Our Glorious Lord Menoth, filthy army of dragonspawn and heretical machine-worshippers.

Dropping to Move 5. Scything Touch grants Dark Shroud now. There's a few other bits and bobs but he stayed mostly the same.

Wait until Mk3 drops so you can get the full picture, I'd say.

pGaspy was spoiled in one of the older threads. Check the archive.

Have we seen cards to see if anything else was changed?

Warders lost their original tough, lost weapon master, lost three wounds, and went up by half a mark 2 point.

Cetrati lost weapon master, 3 wounds, got a better UA, and had their point cost go down by a mark 2 point.

This seems like a wash at worst.

I anyone asking about Wyshnyllar. IIRC he hasn't really changed.

Don't forget that warders gained shield guard.

Wait, do we know for a fact Centrati lost WM?

That's a really subtle but cool change to Shield Wall which will benefit a lot of Khador troops. I wonder if they have cleaned up the minifeat for the regular IFP. There's been almost no good reason to take IFP over BDIFP for the last couple of years.

MVIII i am sorta in a hurry to buyot an auction which will allow me to buy these:
Trollkin Champions, Dire Troll Bomber, Earthborn Dire Troll, Storm Troll, Pyre Troll, Madrak Ironhide, Troll Axer, Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes + UA, Grim Angus, Troll Whelps, Troll Impaler, Pyg Bushwhackers.
All that for like 100 bucks.
And ill be damned if i can really decide what to pick. Because i totally like the circle warlocks but for example Satyrs are ugly, aswell as griffons, thought i would actually like to use griffons.
And trolls are feeling weird - not so much of a stompy, poor fury management, infantry is tought but cant crack armor, and overall doesnt feel like ME SMASH YOUR FACE faction which i assumed trolls should be. Oh yeah and they are slow. Resilient, thought.
Do i get something wrong?

In general, the smashy parts of every faction is getting hit, but Trolls can still hit pretty hard. Their base stats are kind of eh, but when you start factoring in their buffs and stuff, it gets big fast.

It's not as insane as it was in Mk2, but they can still hit pretty hard when they want too.

But yea, they're the most defensive of the Hordes armies, and likely only Convergence beats them in pure not dying ability.

I did forget that. Either way, I would say Shield Guard and Spell Ward are probably comparably good in their respective factions.

Pretty sure it was in the insider.

One takes a UA to get, the other doesn't.

Forgot to ask about my main man Terminus, did check the other posts but didnt find anything.

Y'know, when you buy a UA, you ALSO get another 5 wounds, another attack, I think someone had spoiled Steady.

Yeah, to get benefits, you have to spend points. The difference is that to buff warders, your fell callers can't be buffing anything else. My UA does all his awesome just be being there.

The insider said nothing about cetrati wm.

Still less point efficient than warders, which is my point. You're paying extra to get spell ward when warders get shield guard natively. If it's a 5 point UA that pushes them to be more per model than wardens, losing point efficiency.

Sacred Ward, which is a big buff for them since it means you can still put upkeeps on them yourself.

And shield guard is a big buff for trolls.

The point is, someone said that cataphracts having a higher model count is their advantage and why their stats are lower, but the fact is their points per mode is equal to or greater than other infantry.

Maybe it was in a forum post? I can't find the Skorne overview now, but I had read that THAT had been the justification for point reduction.

You're trading point efficiency for immunity to knockdown and spells. It isn't something you always need.

If efficiency of models in one faction affects the efficiency of models in another faction, I don't understand why we all don't just play McThralls.

If you don't want to compare point efficiency, don't compare model count between factions either.

Any cryx leakers know whats up with Darragh Wrathe? Hes one of my favorite models

So basically it is sort of played equal to CoC, but is less reliant on warbeasts, right?

So realistically, why did PP spoil all the bad things about skorne?

Skorne has seen a lot of cool things this edition. Rasheth is real nasty, task master does a lot better in some circumstances (in our insider it was said the task master is basically the same, when that's clearly not the case), Vorkesh becoming awesome, there's a lot of good things that happened.

Why is it they only told us the bad things and left it to leaks to tell us the good changes?

Because Soles is fucking terrible at writing Insiders

I think their goal is to publish all the bad stuff early so only the rager neckbeards get upset in their basements. That way when L&L comes and the actual streams are showing the official debut it will be all smiles from the crowd. Way better than a bunch of grumbling players being let down at a major con.

It's actually kind of smart on their part, but for those who follow the forums and stuff it can be aggravating.

basically, this. It very much looks like PP has been showcasing the worst parts of upcoming changes, deliberitely.

user here from earlier. Not the one being sarcastic/rude, the first one :)

Bushwackers:

Adv. Deploy, CRA, Pathfinder
Rng 14, POW 10
PC 15 for 10
still has Bushwack order (combat before normal movement)

Bushwack UA
Mortar Rng 12, POW 12, AOE 4
High Explosive (Blast POW 10)
Arcing Fire
Inaccurate

Slip Away the same
Combined Arms the same
PC 5

So 20 for the boat, which you'll take the boat every time.

The problem is that they weren't upfront about that.

Like, go reread the Skorne insider. Really read the tone.

It's not a "These are the nerfs you're getting" tone, it's a "Look at all the awesome changes we made" tone.

Like, sure, that makes sense, but the way Soles approached it made it sound like all of these things are something Skorne players should be excited for.

And a lot of his follow ups were even worse.

Soles is an autistic man child. Don't expect professionalism from him.

Not totally.

Trolls have more offensive punch, and their defensive mechanics are different.

Like, Trolls are like "Take it on the chin, then hit back harder." While CoC is more "Your pitiful attempts to kill me are annoying. Just stop embarrassing yourself."

Ok Troll bro;

Champs are going to be 14/18 under Stone now. Basically same melee damage, although 1" reach and you can't abuse animus on them anymore.

Bomber is still good.

EBDT...is probably ok. Borderilne.
Storm Troll is ok.
Pyre looks good.
Madrak (both versions) are just fine
Axer rocks still
Krielstone still rocks
Grim still good
Whelps are ok
Impaler is lost. Only will be taken on pure shooty casters that need it (Jarl, eGrissel, maybe Gunny)
Bushwackers are good with UA

Then why the fuck are they letting him write shit?

There's gotta be someone who can go "Look man, you have no idea how to talk to people."

>just came from the vietnam thread to this
I want to watch Tropic Thunder and paint trolls
Maybe its just that Soles is legitimately happy to throw those garbage MK2 rules in the trash? lol

Because DC is basically PRN/part time now and they are a small studio.

DC is the mastermind behind the game. Luckily, he helped write this edition.