I want to run a heist game. Are there any medium-crunch games that do Modern well (that aren't GURPS?)

The thread has now ended, everyone pack up and go home.

Seriously, shadowrun is the only game to run crime teams with.

>Shadowrun
>Medium crunch

Hack/reflavour Blades In The Dark.
It's been specifically designed for heist campaigns.

Tristat?

That's a pretty good idea, especially if OP wants to focus on running a gang more than the details of the heist.
I believe there's a modern variant in the works right now, so one might be able to track down some early rules for that if one were to dig around the BitD community.

I kind of think OP wants something crunchier than BitD, though.

its definately NOT medium crunch, but it is a really good heist game with supporting lore and rules. If you want to try a one shot, reddit has RunnerHub and ShadowNet, which is a living world of shadowruns and easy to join.

Shadowrun's rules are a real mess, though.

Leverage. Feng Shui.

I took a quick look at BitD, and you're right, it does look very interesting.

I should point out that I don't have anything against light mechanics myself, but my potential player pool is coming from a mainly D&D 3.5e/Pathfinder background, and I worry whether they'd find something too light on mechanics to be boring or uninspiring.

A prefect opportunity to branch out, no?
You can introduce the system ahead of time and ask them if they think they would enjoy a game like this, before committing to a system.

>Don't run d20 Modern.

Roll crit success - buy the bank.

Wait for anarchy. I'm under NDA's by catalyst, but it's going to be good shit.

GURPS does do modern very well.

GURPS Lite.

Payday 2.

Traveller torrent:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:6BA266CE92E6584F26A483ABB51771CD4F5FB87D&dn=mongoose+traveller&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fglotorrents.pw%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce

>waiting for anything by CGL
Fuck off, shill.

Not OP, but I have a question regarding Shadowrun.

I've never played SR, so in what way does it mechanically support heist/caper campaigns?

You've got so many missions about assassinating stuff, bodyguarding stuff, the whole nine yards. Heisting's just one thing a shadowrunner does. Very good system. Crunchy, though.

That's not really what I asked, though. That's the GM presenting, or the players taking on a specific objective. What about the mechanics/rules of the game would make Shadowrun good for this style of play?

I mean, it's one of the examples of a Shadowrun given in the book, but if you're just gonna use the system and not the setting, I wouldn't recommend it and I would just suggest stick to the NWOD system- less messing around and such.

Savage Worlds.
Fate has a nice crime-themed addon in one of the Worlds compilation books if you don't mind how that system works
nWoD if you like the idea of murdering people having consequences.

>heists
Awww yeeeeah boi!
youtube.com/watch?v=hXFHTfgTCNE

SHADOWRUN FEATURES REASONABLY GOOD RULES FOR HACKING, GUNPLAY, THE USE OF DRUGS FOR CROWD CONTROL, THE USE OF TECHNOLOGY TO ACCESS LOCKED VAULTS, EXPLOSIVES, DRIVING AND VEHICLE PURSUIT, ETC.

it has rules for ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
if you want a modern game you'll just be hacking off rules you don't like, or don't need. you don't need alternate races, magic, cybernetics, augments, some of the more odd pieces of tech, etc.

Oh good, someone mentioned Leverage RPG. That's a really good RPG for heists, OP, you ought to give it a read.

Was going to write basically this if you user hadn't beaten me to it.

Many of the rules can be used straight for a modern game and removing the scifi/fantasy bits is easier than writing new rules to a fantasy game to bring it up to modern age.

...

Connected to the tv series?

The problem is a lot of systems make those things easy (BRP or FATE) without being burdened with the cuberpunk focus.

Take RQ6: Make a hacking skill be DEX+INT. If there is a live person you are hacking against you use the rules for opposed skill checks. Firearms rules are already in the game and are clearly superior to other options, armor is covered in the game as generic defense options, having a laymans knowledge of modern life is covered in the game, etc.

Shadowrun may have rules for it but there are a ton of games build on a universal backbone that is purposely designed to fit a huge array of genres.

>Shadowrun
>reasonably good rules
Don't lie, they're clunky and shitty. Literally every edition of Shadowrun has horrible fucking rules that are overcomplex and require a fucking bathtub of d6s to use

Also combat fucking sucks

>D&D5e players

I'll second nWoD core assuming post-C mechanics, or at leat some of the Armory 2 combat hacks. First ed nWoD core's combat rules are a little too light for an action game with no supernatural elements, imo.

They're called Nextbeards, and not everyone who thinks Shadowrun's rules are a big steaming pile are just scared of a little crunch.

Hell, Burning Wheel's arguably crunchier than Shadowrun, and while it's not something I'm into, I'd say it's beautifully designed, whereas Shadowrun doesn't seem to have been designed so much as vomited forth, then given a few cursory revisions to pick the corn out.

Exactly. If you're going to run Shadowrun, you might as well run GURPS. Shadowrun is more complicated, less fun, and less realistic.

GURPS is my first choice, but WoD will do the job quite nicely. D20 modern was ok in its time, but there are better options.

>CGL timeframe
>"ilClan will be great anons... j-just stay patient"

Shadowrun got worse with age, IMO. Peaked in 3E, where they actually were mostly focused on improving the old system, and got a little better in some ways in 5E than it was in 4E. The only problem with 5E is that (and, admittedly, I walked away from 5E, so errata and whatnot may have fixed this) almost every non-core rulebook piece of stuff for it was hideously broken in terms of just *not* having things or terrible editing.

Even the core rulebook had its issues, though it was much better than the street magic supplement which had just glaring huge errors with a ton of character builds. In addition, if you're running with magicians, prepare for the lack of balance.

Dark Heresy without psykers.

The only thing I want from CGL is a reprint of 4E with Double Tap. Fuck 5E, every goddamn time I try to play with rules I find myself removing half the rulebook because "the devs obviously didn't think this shit through".

The Leverage RPG is made for it.

I hate both dnd and shadowrun.