I just got Dungeon World today, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy and Gygaxian inside...

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This list is longer than I remembered.

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That's the lot.
What do you think? Any favorites? Any I missed?

I got a good 20+ session campaign a while back, and my advice: Read the rules carefully, and don't slouch on using the GM rules. (except maybe for the steading stuff, that didn't really work for me)
The GM moves stuff is really important. When they fail a roll, or when they just say something and look at you to see what happens, MAKE A MOVE. Doesn't have to be hard and nasty, just make sure to keep the pressure on.
My worst sessions were the ones where I kind of faded the whole GM moves and principles and ran DW like I would any other game. It felt mushy and aimless. The sessions where I pushed those rules hard were tightly focused, dangerous and exciting.

Also fronts. I thought they were silly until I just went ahead and used a few, now they're one of my favorite GM tools, good for any system.

Seconding that other guy -- monsters don't have turns. Things don't proceed in an orderly fashion, but rather a free flowing cinematic style. Move the focus of things around the fight, stopping here and there.
Enemies can act whenever it feels appropriate. The more they act to threaten the players, the more dangerous they'll be. You can ramp up difficulty by increasing the number of rolls between players and what they want, breaking threats up into stages. Conversely you can push things together into fewer rolls to lower difficulty.
Here, have the guide, it goes over some of the parts of the system that trip people up when coming from other systems.

I was recently introduced to DW and found it a refreshing breeze after Pathfinder. The easy playstyle and focus on fun makes it great to play and GM.

I have a group with four players and we took turns GMing, so that the first guy had a setting and story, which he ran. Then it was my turn and everything that happened was canon but everything else, including explanations for things that happened, were left for the next GM to expand upon. Works amazingly well.

Veeky Forums, we really, REALLY need to talk...

It's shit. A 400 page core manual and the combat is still mostly just whatever the GM wants it to be; when things happen and when who does anything is arbitrary. The players are super powerful compared to the stock enemies, but there are no rules regarding how to handle combat between the player and more than one enemy. Also no support for PVP (and by extension, NPCs as character classes). There are moves which let the players just make shit up about both the setting and their immediate surroundings. Mundane items which are literally whatever the player wants them to be. The currency fluff is more broken than even the likes of pathfinder. Any two members of the same class will play almost entirely the same, and despite the fact there are only 8, they aren't very well balanced.

Thanks for the advice. I'll add something on to this: Ask questions. Always, all the time. (almost)

Always consider asking 'what does that look like' or 'how do you do that' when a player attempts an attack, an action, finds a new item, does some social stuff. If your players know what it looks like they'll appreciate it more, but you can't always make that stuff up yourself.
If you look at the princes, you'll see she has a move that allows her to call upon some followers that come out of hiding. If you can't figure out on the spot how a bunch of servants suddenly appear out of nowhere in an isolated prison cell (happened to me recently), it's up to the player to explain it.

I feel like, since exp is rewarded for story progression, asking questions also justifies certain strong moves. The druid for example can turn into any animal native to some environment. Which means, in a fantasy setting, a druid can easily pull some new animal out of his sleeve and say it was part of the environment all along. But if you ask questions about that animal, you'll be able to justify that animal in your setting and use it later on.

Oh, are you going to shitpost?

about socialism?

>the vocaroo is kill

I'm still sad about the loss of that bit of audio hilarity.

>didn't read the book/10
Good job, user. We can't very well have a Dungeon World thread without groundless shitposting.

>A 400 page core manual
All moves fit on a few pages. The manual is there to give you an understanding of them, but the basic moves are literally one page. Here, have a shorter manual.

>but there are no rules regarding how to handle combat between the player and more than one enemy
But there are. They're in the GM manual if I'm not mistaking.

>There are moves which let the players just make shit up about both the setting and their immediate surroundings
That's the entire beauty of it. That is what makes the game. It's not a D&D campaign where you prepare each encounter, it's a story you tell together.
I understand not everyone likes to play this way, especially on Veeky Forums, but it is a valid playstyle that people enjoy.

>Any two members of the same class will play almost entirely the same
Bullshit, you either don't know how to role play or you've never actually played DW.

>they aren't very well balanced
It's not about numbers, it's about role play. You can and will utterly break the game if you play it like you would D&D, but like I said, it requires a different play style.

I not only read the book, but took part in a campaign that lasted 8 sessions, and only quit because of schedule synchronization falling apart.

We had fun. But not during the combat, which is the meat of this system. Because the rules are all in the wrong places, leaving what should be controlled at the discretion of players or GM, and applying excessive minutia to concepts which could easily be determined simply by the context of the story (what immediately comes to mind is rolling to determine the effects of negative reputation upon entering a town. That kind of thing SHOULD just be left up to the GM)

When will people stop playing this shitty meme game. It's bad. It's not even the best PbtA fantasy game.

This is probably bait.

>But there are. They're in the GM manual if I'm not mistaking.

Those are guidelines on how to leverage fiat contextually. Not actual rules to the game, which the players would know and be able to use on their end as well.

>That's the entire beauty of it.

It's stupid. The story emerges from the players deciding how they think they should react given a scenario presented to them, not from them constructing their own maze to solve.

>Bullshit, you either don't know how to role play or you've never actually played DW.

Explain to me how to make a cleric in DW that doesn't end up as a healbot necromancer

>It's not about numbers, it's about role play. You can and will utterly break the game if you play it like you would D&D, but like I said, it requires a different play style.

You don't even have to TRY to break DW, it's broken from the getgo. A level 1 fighter can kill dozens of enemies in a row that would individually kill half of the other classes. Which is kind of a problem in a dungeon crawler!

Well, you guys must have ran it poorly, because some of that shit is not right according to the rule book.

>there are no rules regarding how to handle combat between the player and more than one enemy.

For each extra enemy in a group, damage is increased by +1. Page 24. It's even in the index, under Damage, from multiple creatures.

>Mundane items which are literally whatever the player wants them to be.

Adventure gear is literally 5 pieces of whatever mundane item the player wants to have bought, when they pull it from the bag. When you've picked your five items, that's the five things you've got, and you can't swap them out or anything.
That's very different from what you just said.

>There are moves which let the players just make shit up about both the setting and their immediate surroundings.

Depends on whether the GM is using the principle "ask questions, use the answers." Strictly by RAW, Discern Realities and Spout Lore merely allow the player to get info from the GM.
But letting the player answer when the GM can't think of anything, or just doesn't care, is common, and what's wrong with it?

>Any two members of the same class will play almost entirely the same,

At first level, yeah. Which is why the book specifically tells you you're not supposed to have two PCs of the same class at first level. After a couple of levels, different advanced move selections will cause them to play differently.

I was going to inquire about what there was to like about the game, as I own a copy. But this about sums it up.

>For each extra enemy in a group, damage is increased by +1. Page 24. It's even in the index, under Damage, from multiple creatures.

Huh, so it is, my bad. Not exactly robust though.

>That's very different from what you just said.

No it's not. It just "only" works 5 times. The bag of books is the same way

>But letting the player answer when the GM can't think of anything, or just doesn't care, is common, and what's wrong with it?

Because you're literally not playing a game at all at that point. Which is fine if that's not what you want to do, but not exactly premiere content for a gaming system

>At first level, yeah. Which is why the book specifically tells you you're not supposed to have two PCs of the same class at first level. After a couple of levels, different advanced move selections will cause them to play differently.

Every player ends up with close to half of their advanced moves, strongly limiting lateral differentiation. If the classes had larger skill pools this would be okay, but that isn't really the case.

>Explain to me how to make a cleric in DW that doesn't end up as a healbot necromancer
Spellshield defender. There also such a thing as multi-class moves and compendium classes.

>It's stupid
I don't know what to tell you man, it clearly just isn't for you. It's not about the players living a story that the GM constructed for them. They get to have (limited) input and it's the GM's job to do something with this input. And if you are able to do this, it is FUN. It also allows you to build a richer world.

>You don't even have to TRY to break DW, it's broken from the getgo
But I told you, it's not about numbers. Don't play it like you would play any other dungeon crawler. Instead you should aim to 'experience' the dungeon and the characters in it, rather than beat it.

>No it's not.

A bag of potential items that could be whatever mundane object you want is not the same as "a mundane item which are literally whatever the player wants them to be." That's implying that once you pull it out of the bag, you can change what it is from moment to moment as if it was magic.
The purpose of the adventuring gear, OTOH, is just to avoid stalling the adventure while Dave figures out if he wants candles or chalk.

>literally not playing a game

That's literally not making an argument.

>If the classes had larger skill pools this would be okay,

What are compendium classes? Here, have an example.

>Because you're literally not playing a game at all at that point.
You have a very narrow definition of what a game should be. You are still playing, with imagination and involvement and whatnot. Only the hard rules are lacking at that moment.
You know how kids play on a playground? You are basically doing that.

So a shittier version of the paladin, got it

>I don't know what to tell you man, it clearly just isn't for you. It's not about the players living a story that the GM constructed for them.

You seem to have the misunderstanding that not being able to make shit up about the setting means that you aren't taking part in the story. Obviously, denying player character agency is bad and defeats the purpose of roleplaying. But for the players to construct their own world to follow removes all possible elements of suspense or intrigue, except, ironically, the result of dice rolls.

>But I told you, it's not about numbers. Don't play it like you would play any other dungeon crawler. Instead you should aim to 'experience' the dungeon and the characters in it, rather than beat it.

Dungeon cralwers aren't ABOUT characters. They're about figuring out how to circumvent or defeat the challenges in a dangerous place to get the valuable shit. Dungeon World itself introduces itself as such! And that's also why it has like 150 pages of enemy stats instead of an actual geographic setting.

The hard rules are what separate a game from free form.

>The purpose of the adventuring gear, OTOH, is just to avoid stalling the adventure while Dave figures out if he wants candles or chalk.

The problem with that is that those kind of decisions are actually really good moments for role play, that get tossed to the wayside. WOULD your character pick rope or a lantern to bring with them, and why would they pick what they do? But such material options are strongly limited in dungeon world.

But 90% of those times are just sitting around the table waiting for someone to finish picking stuff off a list, with nothing to do with "role playing".
And if you have some role play in mind, you can still do that if you want to. Just buy the equipment directly instead of the pack of adventuring gear. This is a non-problem.

If the gear is that important to you, there are plenty of OSR games. Or even better, something like Torchbearer. That's a game that hugely focuses on equipment being meaningful.

Other games, like PbtA ones in general or Fate, don't really care about equipment except as means to an end. Surprisingly, different games focus on different things.

It's sad, there was almost a good discussion thread about Dungeon World. We got about 20 posts or so before the trolling and shitposting started. I guess that's something.

Disagreeing that the things dungeon world focuses on are actually worth striving for isn't shitposting, faggot.

I'm going to bed.

Good, you posting here won't be missed.

Yeah man, I'm going back to work. It's a different game bruh, if you want to play it you should let go of what you think a dungeon crawler or a story-based game should be. DW is about the characters, and you are stubborn if you can't let that go.
The game holds itself.

>(except maybe for the steading stuff, that didn't really work for me)

That's interesting, I've wondered about how other people felt on those. Generally, Dungeon World has a great framework for GMs IMO, and it's actually one of the best systems for teaching you how to run an RPG well. Fronts for example are a tool that can be easily adapted to really any game.

But steadings stuck out as a strange, easily ignorable thing, despite the amount of space they get in the book. I'm pretty sure the GM in the campaign I'm in now ignores them.

Anyone have thoughts on Grim World?

I kind of wish they would do a second edition, and steadings would either get cut or improved. For one thing, why don't the steading rules have a case for dungeons? Tracking dungeon populations and stuff, like what groups of monsters are moving in, what they're doing there, etc.

>It's sad, there was almost a good discussion thread about Dungeon World.

I miss the days when we had good DW threads, with discussion of classes and homebrew and sessions, and not the perpetual "prove 2 me ur shit game isn't shit, faggots" stuff that clogs the threads now.
PDF related, this was posted to Veeky Forums by the guy who was developing it; we helped him iron it out.

Alright so dw is just a variety of freeform. Good shit. Whatever.

Would you like to join our free form session?

I've skimmed it, but haven't got around to using it or anything. I like the class selection, though, it's pretty flavorful and well designed, IMO.

Seems like an improvement on the witch. Ever tried it?
I actually just want to discuss classes, so if you've got more, share em.

Does this use the same spells as wizard?

It doesn't use a list, you make spells up by combining tags. Seems interesting.

The class selection is something I like, and while including all the races would make it a bit of a strange kitchen sink, I do like them and the takes on some of the classic fantasy one.

Though strangely, my biggest criticism is that I think the idea of death moves actually undermines the point of making a "grim" version of Dungeon World. One of the hallmarks of any kind of grim fiction is that death is cheap and meaningless, and can happen to anyone. The death moves are sometimes great and flavorful, but what is does practically, is ensure that you can't have a "meaningless" death. In a way, it's less grim than default DW.

wich one is?

>meme game

What does that even mean?

Here, user. And the playbooks too:
dropbox.com/s/lc5d5pxeldq48sn/Grim World.pdf?dl=0

SCUP or City of Judas. Fellowship also looks okay, man in drag besides

I mean that its mostly popular because of its constant shilling. Nearly every "what system should I use for X fantasy game" thread, I see several people pushing DW really hard as some kind of savior of ttrpgs, and that anyone who doesn't think it's good is just a grognard/power gamer/hates player agency/etc

Damn, these look fun. Thanks user.

Started reading it expecting Warhammer, got Dragon Age. Kinda skewed my opinion of it.

>Nearly every "what system should I use for X fantasy game" thread, I see several people pushing DW really hard as some kind of savior of ttrpgs, and that anyone who doesn't think it's good is just a grognard/power gamer/hates player agency/etc

That's funny, because I see a cranky user who came into a thread called "tell me about your experiences with Dungeon World" just to post about how he doesn't like how popular it is.

>nearly every "what system should I use for X fantasy game" thread, I see several people pushing DW really hard as some kind of savior of ttrpgs

It's probably the best narrative focused fantasy RPG we've got (not that there's much competition), and every single DM should give a read to the DM-ing guide at least.

Have you ever considered that maybe it's an honest fucking recommendation?

Well to be fair, that is still an experience with Dungeon World.

It's a pretty mediocre ripoff of basic d&d.
With the latter I can play the same thing but better without shoehorned AW mechanics, "ironic" class descriptions and Forgefag lingo, with a ruleset of about 25 pages.

Played it 3 times. All of them were awful experiences, with people trying to recreate D&D and shouting "AWESOME!!1!" every fucking time someone gave an idea; and no, I'm not exaggerating.

My city has one or two groups that play it exactly like foreign ones (I live in a non-American country), shouting the equivalent to "AWESOME" in our language every time someone gave an idea. It got annoying really, really fast.

>DW is closer to improv theater with dice than a videogame with pen and paper.
So dungeon shit is closer than Cops & Robbers than D&D 4e?

> Because there are no turns in DW.
This is a lie.

>All moves fit on a few pages. The manual is there to give you an understanding of them, but the basic moves are literally one page. Here, have a shorter manual.
And why you need another book to understand the core? Falied design.

>This is probably bait.
"People don't like what I like! BAIT!"

>I'll add something on to this: Ask questions. Always, all the time.
Slowing/halting the game everytime you want to add unnecessary details to the world is always a waste of time. No one cares what is the tavern keeper dreams and hopes when you have to defeat a dragon or stop a lich before he executes the princess.

>It's probably the best narrative focused fantasy RPG we've got
You, americans. Don't bundle the rest of the world on your delusion.

I like dungeon world and I'm inclined to agree that the worst design decision they made was by essentially trying to use PbtA to play D&D instead of trying to make a PbtA fantasy game from the ground up

>You don't even have to TRY to break DW, it's broken from the getgo. A level 1 fighter can kill dozens of enemies in a row that would individually kill half of the other classes. Which is kind of a problem in a dungeon crawler!
The point of dungeon world is to be THE CLASS, not "another fighter/wizard/rogue." You're special, unique, THE ONE. Yeah, it's a "game" for special snowflakes.

>Well, you guys must have ran it poorly
Standard answer. It also shows how elitist are some fans of this... game.

I don't like the idea of generic race moves. I understand wanting more races for the different classes, but I think it would be a lot better to create unique race moves for all the different classes as opposed to a one-size-fits-all race move for all the classes. It's just a lot more flavourful to have a move defining a dwarven fighter or a dwarven cleric as opposed to one move that represents all dwarves of any kind. You can't sum up an entire race with a single move. Keeping it class based means you don't have to, you just need to help define that class of that race. You're simply adding some definition to the character in top of how the class has already defined them.

Personally, I'm okay with classes being race-locked because I think that tells you something about that race and makes race more meaningful. I think that if you want something that isn't covered you should make a new class to achieve it. For instance, if you want an elvish paladin, it's more interesting to me to make a new class that is an elvish equivalent of a paladin rather than just slapping on an elvish race move to the human paladin. But obviously making a new class is a lot more work than just a new race move.

Still, if it was me, I'd make more race moves for all the classes, not just a single move for each race.

>I like dungeon world
How does it feel to be a foot soldier/ignorant pawn in the conspiracy to destroy tabletop gaming?

Ignore this pleb. If you look anywhere else on the web in RPG communities you'll see Veeky Forums has a shitty taste in RPGs. They all beat their meat off to Pathfinder and D&D, ignorant that a million other system exist and many of them better. It's like they are trapped in some temporal rift of the early 2000's and refuse to abandoned their dying d20 system, kept alive exclusively by pop culture weight of D&D's name.

>Ignore this pleb.
The ones I answered?

> web in RPG communities
Now r/rpg is a good place to be, with people with good taste in RPGs? I hope that's sarcasm or plain trolling.

>They all beat their meat off to Pathfinder and D&D, ignorant that a million other system exist and many of them better. It's like they are trapped in some temporal rift of the early 2000's and refuse to abandoned their dying d20 system, kept alive exclusively by pop culture weight of D&D's name.
Maybe that's because - oh, no - they LIKE Pathfinder and D&D! Who would think?!

r/rpg? Ew no. And you like shitty systems? Your Casul status confirmed.

And

>And
He died! Call the cops!

i did not like my experience with dungeon world. to be honest it did not gave me the gaming feeling that I like on my RPG.

and as one poster say is an improv theatre with dice. (why dice? I don't think its needed at DW role-playing levels)

moving back to DW though. here are the things that i think you should avoid as a GM.

most of the time you get a result of 7 which means success with complications. try to avoid making the game feel like a hedgehog dilemma. that every time you try to do something you end up hurting yourself. in all honesty id made me not want to do things because everything hurt my character. try to give options to the players and let them choose their own complications unless you feel you should be specific about one.

try to give more variety to combat. the way I experienced it everything felt the same. sword, fist, lance, whips,

not much that I can ad the system felt pretty mediocre to me so I could never give it much attention.

Weep for me.

No need for that: no one cares with dungeon world and its fans, anyways.

You certainly seem to care enough to shit on it and whine about the players for the last 12 replies.

Yeah, maybe Dungeon World Hater Sana is secretly jealous that his group has GURPies and is forced to play terribadpoop rpgs. He longs to be one of us.

>It's sad, there was almost a good discussion thread about Dungeon World. We got about 20 posts or so before the trolling and shitposting started. I guess that's something.

What fucking retardation do you have, no one is trolling.

One dude is justifiably irritated that a game calling itself a dungeon crawler is actually a free form narrative game and one guy is making a good case about how (item) granularity supports RP.

Maybe if your game does not cause valuable debate it is because there is little to debate, not because of some ebul troles who hate freeform.

>narrative focused
What does that mean?

That the game never lets you kick back and lay down some sick banter while the dice do all the fighting.

Huh?

New poster here. My group played a couple of sessions of DW and had fun with it.

I did a Hyboria adaptation that I'm thinking of putting up on Roll20.

I can see how some of the things that make it different might not appeal to those who feel they have mastered more traditional systems.

>Standard answer. It also shows how elitist are some fans of this... game.

The guy had several complaints which are actually deviations from RAW. If you play the game not according to the rules but according to your homebrew version of it, and then get pissed off about the parts you homebrewed, then you ARE playing the game wrong.
This goes for ANY game, not just DW. Changing a game to be less fun to play is always doing it wrong.
Complaining that you changed it to be less fun is dumb.
Calling people who point it out to you "elitist" is outright stupid.

I find it reminds me of when we were little neckstubble children who though dungeons and dragons was like this and nothing else.
Would I run it myself? Not really, I have other games that can do it better (d6-lite, simple six, mini six stuff like that.) And I can teach kids wit games like Hero Kids. But it still is pretty good for the FATE crowd.

Black Hack and White Hack both succeed at what DW fails to do.
Mainly because those authors actually enjoy D&D and aren't married to the GNS school of thought like DWs are.

>black hack
>white hack
>GNS school of thought
help me out.

>Black Hack and Whitehack
OSR games meant for super streamlined 1970s style games.
>GNS
A retarded theory of games courtesy of Ron Edwards and the Forgescum that the authors of DW subscribe to.

>that the authors of DW subscribe to.

[citation needed]

I have never heard Adam Koebel expound on it. I've heard him say he has a lot of problems with the Forge and a lot of the stuff that came out of it, but never mention GNS explicitly.

Not that it matters, since you're just doing guilt by association bullshit anyway.

> still trying to justify your freeform social justice simulator

...

>social justice simulator
>dungeon world
Don't you mean Urban Shadows?

"Oh boy, long day of work. I wonder if that DW thread is up and there has been any fun conversation or perhaps even some new pdf's"
>Fellow fa/tg/uys still feel the mighty urge to debate anything they hate about the game
>Fellow fans still feel the mighty urge to defend anything they love about the game

WHY? I don't go around on theads I didn't enjoy telling everyone it's shit. Can't we just have our threads?
Fuck this.
I feel genuinely beaten down.

Currently in a 20+ session Dungeon World campaign. The party includes an Arcane Duelist (on the SRD I think), a Marksman (really just a re-skinned Fighter), a Ninja (re-skinned Rogue), a Captain and a Golem. The last two are from the Inverse World book, which is pretty solid and professional looking.

The main house-rules our GM added were the following:

- Maximum level raised to 20, with characters getting +1 to an attribute on even-numbered levels, and a new Advanced Move on odd-numbered levels. Leveling up still requires the same amount of experience. Advanced Moves available at levels 2-5 are instead available at 3-9, and ones available from 6-10 are instead available from 11-19. We did this mainly so that we could run a longer campaign without maxing out our characters early. The party's between level 11 and 14 right now, and we're getting into the Third Act of the adventure, so we'll probably get to 18 or 19 by the end.

- Initiative turn order. Yes, this isn't how DW's supposed to work, but we had problems where the louder / more vocal players would talk over the others and try to take several actions in a row, while the quieter ones wouldn't get to contribute much at all. So, everyone gets to make one move each round, then everyone gets to make another move, and so on.

- Combat grid. We use Roll20 and the GM makes excellent maps, so we basically just decided how many meters Hand / Reach / Close / Near / Far represented, then let players move a certain distance whenever they make a Move. They can also just dedicate their turn to movement only and go farther, though they may need to Defy Danger if there's a hazard in the way.

- Random loot tables including magic items, most of which either work like better versions of standard equipment, grant a bonus to an existing Move, or grant an extra Move a limited number of times per day.

Overall it's a great campaign and as someone who's run DW before, I appreciate these little adjustments.

Fate/GUMSHOE/PbtA is the holy trinity of engines Veeky Forums can't rationally discuss and it hurts me.

I understand how you feel, user, but try not to let this kind of thing spoil your mood. Instead, why not discuss about how people feel about the compendium classes, including experiences with them in the table?

Also, share playbooks. I have a good collection, but I lack some, so I was wondering if anyone has the living star, and want to know if any user wants some specific playbook.

can't Veeky Forums discuss GUMSHOE? I don't remember ever seeing that problem

Oh hey, I made that. Glad to see it still floating around.