Warmachine/Hordes General - Sloan's 9 Shooting Dildos Edition

I think everyone is a little booty blasted about cygnar

2 out of 5 Hordes factions are pretty bad. 3 > 2, therefore most of hordes is dumpster fire tier garbage.

Minions and Circle are amazing, anything else is hysterically bad. At least Trolls doesn't get fucked as hard by Cryx now.

As a khador player idgaf

Bring on all the hunters

>thinking legion is garbage
this is the most retarded thing i have seen in these threads this week and that's saying something considering the ongoing kara sloan shitstorm

Well we *can* take 2 blood hags now. I feel like everyone has access to anti tough with how much grievous wounds has been spread about

And Sniper fucks tough straight-up now.

I missed what happened, what's up with Cygnar?

Everything got better

Caine2 can now magic bullet for free off every single hit

Legion is trash, below average at best. They're better than Skorne at least but Trolls and Circle are vastly superior and pretty much all of Warmachine is light years ahead of Legion

Get with the times user, Legion is shit tier now

>trolls
good troll user, pun intended

The right casters got either direct buffs or are incidentally buffed from various mechanics being changed, namely upkeep hate getting nerfed

This is coupled with two other things

1) Merc jacks across the board got buffed and the nomad is a S++ tier unit. It's easily the most optimized unit in the game, bar none. Other merc jacks are still good to usable. Magnus Jack spam is completely viable.

2)while merc units didn't necessarily get super buffed (besides Croes) what's important is cost. Steelheads stayed nearly the same power level with cavalry being slightly nerfed overall. The difference is in points. Steelheads are as good as they used to be while being absurdly cheap. While most people have started to notice they have to take less units in a 75 point army than they did in a Mk2 50 point army, my steelhead list lost a grand total of one model. One.

Rifleman are also genuinely good and are a fucking steal for 14 points, especially with Damiano.

Having regular access to Idrians might also change things, they're legit.

I'm starting khador, who do you think is worth investing in (casters and jacks) to start?

figure ill also get MOW and IFP black dragons

Get Butcher1, Butcher2, and Butcher3.

hey, i don't play circle and they're not represented in my meta, can you walk through how they got so much better exactly? aside from the dog's stupid new animus, i saw that

Sorscha1, Butcher1, Irusk 2 are the first 3 casters I would get. For jacks, you want Behemoth,a pair of Juggernauts, Beast 09, Ruin, and a Berserker to start with.

They didn't get better, they got tenderly caressed by the nerf bat

Everyone else just became shit. They were already top tier and stayed that way

Also, for 90% of your lists, your jacks are probably going to be Behmoth + a juggernaut or berserker. Behemoth is the best heavy in the game and is an auto-include in the majority of lists. The only one I haven't brought him with much is sorscha1, and that's because I like shield guarding beast and having both is way too expensive. But he'd be fantastic with her freezing stuff for bombards and is worth taking if you don't want beast.

Trolls are vastly superior to Legion at this point. It's kind of sad how far the dragon factions have fallen

c'mon now, tenacity was good but it wasn't THAT good

It's design space for the new hordes faction. They don't have to work too hard on them if the bar for hordes is lower.

replace the zerker with a grolar

>still paying the tough tax with all the new anti-tough hate
yeah. better. ok. sure.

Convergence looks like it's going to be rocking as well, to be honest.

It only got a few nerfs and quite a few more buffs.

why those 3 war casters?

what about colossal?

TENTATIVE SKORNE WARLOCK TIER LIST

>God tier
Hexeris2

>High tier
Xerxis1
Xerxis2
Mordikaar

>Solid tier
Hexeris1
Xekaar
Zaal1
Zaal2
Makeda2
Morghoul2
Rasheth

>Low tier
Morghoul1
Makeda3

>Trash tier
Makeda1

I don't agree with the guy but legion is still mostly paying the tenacity tax on our stats while tenacity is outright gone

Xerxis3 and Hexeris1 ought to be way lower, at least. Rasheth way higher.

COC looks great, most of the nerf ive seen have been what i call the global nerf (general changes to recursion, loss of purify for targeted upkeep hate, etc), with better induction, better aurora feat, buffs to the TEP and axiom, etc. pretty stoked.

>No Naaresh

Fuck you for forgetting Skorne-Budda

Lucant lost old Watcher, which is honestly his biggest nerf.

He also lost shield guard, which is pretty annoying.

The Buddha didn't stick swords through his nipples to get off.

>Lucant lost shield guard

Uhh

On himself.

He personally lost Shield Guard.

Skorne Budda, however, does.

that's true with watcher, though thinking an effect like that would stick around would be pretty silly anyway

i don't consider this a real problem.

I literally never ever actually considered that he had it.

It made it easier to move damage around against high shooting armies, gave you another shield guard to protect your support models, and had some cornercase situations where it was quite useful(against Nemo2's gun, to use one example).

Picking up the +2 DEF variant against of the +2 ARM variant of the defensive spells is also annoying.

Because they're great for starting the faction. Irusk2 is the best infantry caster, Sorscha1 is the best assassin, Butcher1 is great at supporting a combined arms force while being able to smash faces if he gets a chance.

I'd run a colossal with harkevich or strakhov probably

You must be crazy. Everything went down in cost in Trolls. Tough is basically worthless in Mk3, you're not paying any points for it.

I wouldn't say it's worthless, people actually have to bring the anti tough models.

Tough+ steady is money though, like what champs have.

Anyone got Lylyth 1 and/or 2 dojo going?

>Picking up the +2 DEF variant against of the +2 ARM variant of the defensive spells is also annoying.
agreed, i was really hoping it was the ARM one

Set your models on fire, buy sloan.

Yeah, I'm actually working on both right now.

ok so then for irusk, would the MOW and IFP be good? i saw how winter guard infantry got worse but rifles got better, are either good with him too

Oh? What'cha thinking? Bolt Thrower seems a given for both, and a Succubus for at least Lylyth1.

I guess I can kind of understand why, at least.

I just wish we weren't stuck at DEF12 with so much of our shit.

It depends really on your overall playstyle I think. Right now both would function fantastically with Irusk1 and Irusk2 That said what are you looking for the most in the faction, do you want to run jack heavy? Infantry stronk with lots of axes or something in the middle? if you're not sure yet I'd say pick up the new battlebox as Kozlov is looking like a very fine intro caster and a juggernaut and decimator will go a long ways especially with the new focus mechanics and Rof rules.

I'm looking at the leaked Khador cards and I have to ask... Are Black Dragons really better than vanilla IFP now? With a Kovnik they get precision strike and vanilla have a way to get pathfinder. Thoughts?

I don't think Cryx is in a terrible place, for me it just seems like there are less choices thats all. We can still delete armor and infantry

Lylyth1 +30
-Succubus -4
-Carnivean -19
-Angelius -17
-Seraph -14
-Bolt Thrower -11
-Shredder -4
Annyssa -8
Forsaken x2 -8
Shepherd x2 -2
Raptors (M) -18

My notion here is that the Carnivean and/or Angel exist to benefit from Blood Lure and a Witch Mark'd Parasite on something big after being Slipstreamed forward. The Shredder is a finisher. Raptors and Annyssa also do a lot more when parasite is involved.

Lylyth2 +28
-Succubus -4
-Zuriel -18
-Ravagore -19
-Ravagore -19
-Bolt Thrower -11
Forsaken -4
Shepherd x2 -2
Archers + UA -18
Deathstalker x2 -8

Basically the point of this is a ton of shots, 4 scatters, and Zuril being able to do multiple Quick Work sprays in melee. On feat turn (which you'll want to be ASAP) the Archers put out 3 POW 21 arcing fire CRAs, the Deathstalkers kill 8 models by themselves, and lylyth either kills 6 or she and the ravagores scrap a couple heavies on their own.

thinking of replacing Zuriel and the Forsaken with a Seraph (14) and Naga (8)

I haven't taken black dragons yet in mk3

Vanilla IFP can pop their minifeat to run or charge and still have shield wall for +4, while black dragons only get +3 from their minifeat now. Since I often bring great bears + kovnik, the IFP is a smart choice because of the kovnik giving them precision strike anyway.

If you're really strapped for points, BDP is 2 points less than IFP+ kovnik. Otherwise, I'd take the IFP. I don't think side step is particularly valuable on the bdp.

I think it's more just frustration that some of the changes seem excessive. Like I think everyone would admit that Gaspy2 needed to be changed. But the scope of the change just felt like too much. Same with Deneghra's feat among other things

Really, the only case is if you have iron flesh and you pop iron zeal while in shield wall. In that case, black dragons will probably survive boosted pow 12s and the IFPs won't. But if you really need that, take manowar.

Side Step is just good for more jamming, is what I'm thinking. BDs just have a lot more built in, but it's not necessarily better, just does a different thing

rly i always loved khadors jack design, thats the biggest reason they interest me bc they can finally actually run them but i also want to use some of the heavier infantry more than anything since i like the MOW and IFP armor a lot too

If you want more jamming though, an IFP charge can pop minifeat to get a 3 inch reposition and shield wall after the charge. That's more than the 2 inch side step.

Yeah. I mean d3+6 would have been prefered, if they have to impliment a random feat
Denny2 might still have some game, I'm not sure. I p much mainlined lich for the last year, I never played denny1 or 2

Interesting stuff, thanks. Don't feel the singular Angelius can get enough done on its own? I've always felt you need two to reliably kill heavies.

Im very curious that theme forces are a core of design philosophy.

Like what do they include?

For the people that are praying for their unit to make sense, this may be the last saving grace.

it's also there for the repulse. but a boosted POW 14 AP with parasite will knock something out or be super mean to a war caster who can only shunt 5

So what exactly is PP trying to do with MK3?

We can only pray

Reel things back in, toning down on "alpha or die", retarded ARM skew, and extreme threat ranges.

I can't really tell... Honestly I think they have no clue either. They have said a lot of things about how they were changing the game and all of it is either a complete lie or a half truth. The rules support the notion that the game is supposed to be more centered around warjacks, but the best factions in the game are the ones whose infantry is still clearly the best option.

goddamn this turned into a bitching fest.

I can't wait for MK4 when they remove the last rules that might had made the game anyway complex.

Maybe everything is represented by emojis on front of the card

Rock 'em Sock 'em Warnouns.

Yeah, I prefer stuff like mkI Great Bears with 2 cards filled with text

Was Great Bears even that bad?
I always though things like Cankerworm or Withershadow Combine were the real evil
>you have HOW many special rules again

what factions are those now aside from khador

they cut out a bunch of the more esoteric rules to streamline the game

Problem with Great Bears was that three models that looks quite a bit alike each had their own, unique rules they provided the unit.

Telling them apart was a fucking nightmare.

the way they streamlined stuff that previously triggered on wreck markers was nice. buff for canks really. though i am sad about the loss of Dark Industries, it never happened much but was just fun when you could live the dream with it

add more jacks to the game and cut down on negative play experiences.

a lot of people wanted them to basically look at A+ and S-tier stuff, and raise all the B, C, D, F stuff up to A or S. that's a reason for the disappointment. Because PP decided instead that they mostly wanted to take A- and S-tier stuff as well as the C, D, F, and move it all into about the B range (since putting everything at S tier would be a mark 1 repeat). Oh but keep cygnar at S-tier because why the fuck not ;)

okay how do I 3Nemo in Mk3?

Jacks all day every day?

Maybe stormblades? upper kek

I only have these jacks currently. Please kill me

-defender
-stormclad
-charger

I have a lot of infantry for some fucking reason. Plenty of mercs too

you'd need to take all 3 jacks for his WJP anyway. i suggest a thunderhead, he got gud. or can never go wrong with dynamo

Vayl1
-Ravagore
-Seraph
-Scythean
-Typhon
Grotesque Banshees (Full)
Forsaken x2
Grotesque Assassin
Spell Martyr x2

Dunno if that's enough infantry or not, haha.

If you had to pick between the two, which would you do?

My store is running 30% off everything until L&L and they have both the resculpt thunderhead and Dynamo

Any advice on infantry picks? Is it actually worth going lightning skew?

Lightning skew, at least in mk2, was super fun, but not crazily competitive. There were a couple of neat tricks it could pull off though. N3mo's gun, chain lightning, and the storm strider could all boost electro leaps. So under feat, could get 4 dice electro leaps. Which are hillarious.

Dynamo under feat and fully loaded will blow a fuck huge hole in the side of anything. Same with storm blades.

Mk3, tough to say quite yet.

if you have to pick, dynamo is really, really good. 4 scaling shots, and he's no slouch in melee, and his Nemo bond is also great.

Vayl always wants a Raek. why not swordsmen? i assume because of force barrier + incited sprays? banshees still has victim stats. stealth helps though, sure.

it is admittedly a little hard not to be annoyed when the charger is 9 points and the naga is 8. or the nomad is 11.

Im not really sure if they accompmished that, for example I expect there will be several casters that bring nothing but jacks wich are historically high arm and have many boxes

i sorta doubt it. fact is that heavy/WM infantry eats jacks, and light infantry eats heavy infantry. there's a rock paper scissor balance between the three things.

And just wait until you run into Krueger2.

Cygnar and mercs

What medium based infantry lists will be viable in Mk3?

>Hexeris God Tier

Who fucking gives a shit about Channeller on Razor Worms? What the fuck are you going to do, Ashes to Ashes all those jack heavy battlegroups to death? Hexy2 has been a mediocre caster ever since High Def skew was phased out of the meta. He is definitely better at what he does, but what he does hasn't been relevant in years.

>Xerxis2 High tier

Yea, I totally want a Battle Engine warlock who camps on 1 every turn after upkeeping and casting the other spell that is half the reason to take him in the first place.

>Mordikaar high tier

Revive nerf is bad. Almost as bad is losing Ghost Walk for a shitty battlegroup version of it.
>m-muh void spirits

>no Naaresh in high tier

Lamentation is now fucking awesome, not only does it actually work now but it fucks with a lot of animi too. Naaresh is also fucking amazing at brawling with other battlegroups, so he's in his element at the start of mk3.

>Rasheth mid tier

The real God King of Skorne is now Rasheth. Almost nothing of importance nerfed, everything good about him buffed. The only reason anyone could think Rasheth isn't the best warlock in Skorne is if you thought Chain Gang was the only reason you ever brought him. If you think like this then fucking kill yourself because you have no chance at exaltation.

>toning down on retarded ARM skew
>in a world with nuMan of Wars and Magnus2 Nomad spam