>Why are you complaining about starting at level 1? Every hero goes from zero to hero, so you have to start somewhere. Eventually, you'll be the strongest in the land!
>game never hits level 2, let alone level 3, before crashing and burning
Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
How do you avoid this?
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It depends on what the cause of your games getting stopped is. Find the cause, then deal with it specifically.
Can can we collectively decide change the dank "/tg Complaints Department" maymay from "D&D" to "Roll20?" Trying to play using online gamefinders causes far more problems than any system.
I think they could coexist since they're both true, after all.
>DM doesn't watch movies where the protagonist is already a Navy Seal or a superhero at the beginning
>watching shit movies where the protagonist effortlessly waltzes through the bad guys and gets no character development
>watching shit movies that have to base themselves around some kind of retarded item chase
No I don't, thanks for noticing you fucking plebe.
>watching great movies where a based protagonist goes toe to to toe with dozens of elite mercenaries
What's the fucking problem?
Navy Seals and superheroes aren't the subject of the shitty D&D campaigns OP is referring to
Get a better group/DM. My players are only a couple hundred xp from level 3. We've been playing the same game for 6+ months.
>he doesn't sacrifice shit players to keep the group itself cohesive
buddy i've played the same exalted game for a full year now and the players are past 150 standard+bonus exp combined. you just nip the fuckheads out at the beginning parts and stick with the based players and eventually something works out
Don't build up expectations. Gaining levels is not the point of the game. It's not a personal failure if you end the game before max level.
No, the main villain at the start of the campaign is not a level 50 ultralich with 666 phylacteries hidden in the darkest corners of space and time. We have a down-to-earth storyline with a concrete goal that should be attainable in a couple of months, and then we'll see if we all still want to keep going.
D&D works fine if you don't use it for anything it wasn't intended for in the first place, especially outside 3.PF. It's a victim of it's own ubiquity more than anything. On the other hand, playing games with randoms online is almost always going to turn out shit because you're mainly playing with people too awkward or unpleasant to find a steady group.
I DM once a week for a group. We've made a rule that, on average, the party will level up once per session. Started at level 2, expecting 15 sessions.
So far it's been phenomenal.
>What's the fucking problem?
It will become apparent when you reach puberty.
>URRRR I'm so MATURE I only consume MATURE media made for MATURE persons such as myself maybe you'll understand once you're MATURE like me URRRR
Get over yourself.
You don't. Instead, you just muddle through the first same levels for all eternity like you are in purgatory.
>games are only fun when you start at level 0 and struggle your way up
Or maybe wrecking everyone's shit is fun once in a while.
Do you hate Arkham Asylum because you get to be Batman?
Yes. That game would be a lot better if you played a regular prison guard instead of some ridiculous roided-out psycho fantasy.
>Starting at level 1
If you are playing a pre-made adventure that calls for that or the players are new to the system, I can understand starting at level 1.
In most other circumstances, I recommend starting at level 3. It lets your players create a backstory that gives them the chance to explain exploits and shit that they have done and transfers the appropriate level to match. They shouldn't be super advanced heroes that personally won the great war of the realms or some other bullshit like that, but instead it would explain how they survived a gnoll attack in their village, they barely managed to escape, and spent some time training with a known warrior to gain strength to destroy their enemy (this can be a fighter, a barbarian, or a ranger with the favored enemy:Gnoll trait). Maybe they were at a mage college and proved to be gifted in a certain school and had to undergo extensive training with an advanced instructor and proceeded to fuck up a spell on a test so badly that the fallout caused them to be expelled (wizard types).
All in all, it is rarely a good idea for an established group of players to start at level 1 unless it is necessary for level pacing in a pre-made adventure or the game is new to players (like I said before).
Starting equipment and stats? They should be baseline starting equipment and stat point assignment for the level 1 character. Allow them to sell their gear for 1:1 gold to customize that way to better refine their character as well.
If you are going to be starting as level 1 DO NOT USE XP TO LEVEL UP! You should be using a milestone system, it is a boon to DMs, keeps players from doing stupid shit because they know no matter how many dragons they kill they aren't going up a level until a certain point, and really allows for people to role play instead of rollplay.
For D&D the starting stats should be 15,14,13,12,10. and 8. Racial and class modifiers can change these of course.
>Thinking level 1 is the problem that the game crashes and burns
Nah man, its the shit players. Quit playing with shit players.
(Cont)
Racial modifiers can change these score of course, however, not by much and it allows for a more diverse party with clearly stronger roles for playing. Some characters will do absolutely shitty at some things while others will do great at them and it will promote team dynamics.
So, don't start at level 1, use hard stat assignments, and use starting gear worth their exact gold value for character creation and you wind up with a better group of players that you, as a DM can feel comfortable throwing some legit threats at and not holding back. Those first two levels are far too squishy to slam with spiked log traps, goblin ambushes, and rolling boulders of death in dark corridors.
At level 3 they can start taking a little bit of damage. The bigger plus is that they will start to be making a name for themselves in the realm relatively quickly (should be around level 5) so that it opens up loads of possibility for roleplaying. Certain big bads will target them specifically. Maybe they will be hired for jobs and such because of their reputation for getting shit done and it makes sense for people to seek them out for more important missions.
All in all, I can't recommend skipping over level 1 and level 2 enough to people.
>tfw starting my next D&D 5e game at level 3
>players are happy with it
>I'm happy running it
That's not a problem of the system, but your group.
I've noticed there's a 1:1 correlation between group longevity and the collective weeb tendencies of the players involved.
Might want to start there, animemes poster.
>15,14,13,12,10. and 8
>standard array
>not point buy
No thanks.
...
Standard array is better than point buy because it stops min-maxing bullshit.
Stop playing Pathfinder where stats can be dumped down to 7.
Try 4e's point buy.
>Play 4e
There is a good reason that system died out how did and didn't move a lot of product despite carrying THE name for fantasy RPGs on its shoulders.
That's what my group generally does too. Having some level of progression at the end of every session is pretty great.
>There is a good reason that system died out how did
Sure. Paizo decided to target grogs. The change from 2e to 3e was just as gargantuan as the change from 3 to 4, but D&D survived because there were no retroclones at the time for fans to switch over to.
Lots of the people who would've played OSR at the time, in fact, just decided to keep playing their preferred classic editions.
That said, Pathfinder and 3.5 can't die out fast enough if you ask me.
This. Even though the exact power of level 3 varies from edition to edition, for D&D, it's a solid starting point.
You're still low enough that you have to be careful, but not so low that a random goblin will kill you with a lucky crit. You have a good variety of abilities, skills, and other options by that point, but nothing overwhelming. You have a good chunk of experience, so you can justify that in the backstory and have your character already be somewhat accomplished as a hero.
What if the cause is your friends being fucking flakes with no ability to commit to something long term?
Beside finding another group which I've done, but I like playing with my IRL buddies when they actually show up
I prefer movies with a slower build to get to the action, gets you more invested in the character and lets that meaning translate over into the eventual action.
Stop playing shitty games with shitty players and shitty gms and shitty shitties.
>TFW my roll20 group is my second longest-lasting group at six months
...But I've never used Roll20 in my life
are you high?
Bruh
Hey, I've just seen what it's like with a group of normal people
>That said, Pathfinder and 3.5 can't die out fast enough if you ask me.
There are rumors that the unchained classes were a testing ground for new version of base classes for a new edition. Anyone here want to take a bet on how that would go over at launch?
Play Traveller.
Pfew. I made my best friend online. And kicking troublemakers from online groups is easier than doing so IRL.
I prefer starting at level 1, because characters are more grounded and "human".
I like the feeling of progression and the accumulation of power.
LEVEL 3 DOESN'T EVEN MEAN THEY'RE HEROES.
IT JUST MEANS THEY'RE GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO, WHICH MEANS THEIR IN-GAME ACTS ARE JUSTIFIABLE.
WHY SHOULD YOU EVER PLAY A BUTTFUCK LEVEL 1 FARMER OR GOAT BREEDER WHEN YOU CAN PLAY A LEVEL 3 GUARDSMAN OR LEVEL 3 HUNTER?
Lvling, or at least lvling with such steep line as in D&D is a bad meme that should be gone.
Look at works of fiction. Characters rarely got much more powerful during the cycle of the story. There are such examples, but mostly nope. If there is any progress, it is slow and don't rise character power so much.
But in rpg's characters start as barely competent pieces of shit and advance towards demigod levels of power.
One of fucking gygaxian memes that should die.
Maybe they really love fighting the same enemy progression every time.
Or maybe you're just the socially inept autist that can't get player cohesion into your thick, malformed Cro-Magnon skull.
>meet a random group of fuck-offs on R20, still playing the same campaign 2.5 years later.
Another one.
>glorious Danish DM who voices characters with amazing range and result
>met this guy 2 years ago, played through a custom game with him, and then another custome setting, which finalized the story arc.
>Savage Worlds game where we play as inquisitors of the Vatican in medieval EU, keep the dark monsters of legend as just that, legends.
>only stopped because he got a job offer he couldn't refuse which intervened on our Gane time
Another one.
>Way of the Wicked game with Kirthfinder rules, shit is dope as fuck. We're looking for the demon's seal right now. Almost half a year in.
Another one.
>Custom setting playing a warforged warder that'll be the party's contact when the game starts. Not a lot about the setting, but what's shown is promising.
All over R20.
Maybe if you didn't shotgun apply to any game you can like the desperate thirsty fuck-off that you are you'd find decent groups.
sweet christ. I can get a slow game but holy shit. I've been playing for around 8 months and we're at lvl 12
>zero to hero
youtube.com
Damn, that's slow. My group is level 8 around 6 months in. According the gm, it's easier to have a "coherent" campaign and players get a good feel for their abilities if they have 3-4 sessions between level ups.
>I don't like watching the struggles of competent people because it reminds me of how worthless I am
this is you, user
get better friends
I like starting at lvl 1, but I expect to leave this state quite fast, or sooner or later monster will crit and take down my beloved character.
>replies to benign half-serious comment with a vitriolic rant full of blind assumptions and stale memes
No, user, you are the socially inept autist.
it's called new game +, ever play chrono trigger? It feels good struggling through every single boss fight, and then once you beat it you can do it again, sans the struggling.
Nothing short of removing all mechanical choices from character creation stops minmaxing, all you're doing is altering its scope.
Play a game without the arbitrary number treadmill that is a level system
I like GURPS, but there are plenty of popular systems like WoD and Shadowrun which have something similar
>Try GuRpS
How about play games not math class senpai
There is always GURPS lite or GURPS ultra-lite if that is too much for you
...
If you don't like math then why are you playing D&D?
My cellphone has a calculator, it also has a dice app.
>using real dices
>2016
>dices
this is a common problem with DnD and people that have lives, me and my friends try to play this shit too but then its sunny out so we go drink and hang out instead. you need to find a group of losers that are willing to spend their free time playing DnD
Have you tried finding a new playgroup?
>dices
3.PFags everyone
No, this is something too dumb for even 3.pf Players. The PHB and DMG all use die for singular and dice for plural, never dices.
It might be in 5e though, i've heard its massively dumbed down for retards.
I don't think you know what "dumbed down" means other than "WAAAHHH I CAN'T EXPLOIT FIFTY BOOKS TO DO INFINITE DAMAGE ANYMORE"
Isn't that the actual definition of dumbed down?
If you can no longer cause infinite damage, then by definition of the word, it is dumbed down. Amirite or not?
Dumbed down: the deliberate oversimplification of intellectual content within education, literature, cinema, news, video games and culture in order to relate to those unable to assimilate more sophisticated information.
Basically to make it accessible to children and the mentally disabled.
Yes, you can exploit it for powergaming, but it also requires a modicum of intelligence to use just for non exploitive means.
And I click the wrong fucking post.
is for
I had a DM like this. He ignored my complaints about the glacial pacing. We barely made it to level 3 after months of wasted time.
Rocks fell after people kept flaking out because of his abysmal sense of pacing.
I did once every 3 sessions until level 10, then once every 5. The game has been going to 2.5 years and has hit level 16.
I give a token level or two quickly then dial it way back. MMOs do it because it works.
I like to (as GM) level characters slowly and run into this problem fairly often. To me it's a warning that the players involved aren't all that invested into the game or their characters or the plot. Either I'm doing something wrong or the players aren't suitable for my style of play. I try to address the former and give up if it's the latter.
>Admitting retardation.
GURPS is legitimately the easiest system to get players into. I've played with friends, one that's barely played d&d, and another that has never heard of ttrpgs. It went fine, and only fizzled out do to my unpreparadness (though we did have a good time, for my first gm).
I don't exactly recall Gilgamesh grinding levels killing rats in the sewers.
Maybe it's something present in fiction since. well, the inception of fiction?
It's like a trap for crap DMs. The game has to be pretty engaging to compensate for level 1's boring gameplay. The only sure way to avoid it is not playing level 1 games at all.
Our regular group decided it's best to start at level 3-4. That's when D&D 5e starts to get fun instead of taking turns hitting monsters, and the numbers aren't too heavy by that point.
I don't DM every week. The group has multiple DMs, and we have multiple games going on at once. I've also run a couple of OSR one-shots because occasionally one of us can't make it to game.