/cofd/&/wodg/&/mtag/ Chronicles of Darkness & World of Darkness & Mage: the Awakening General

Yeah, no can do, unfortunately, it has to be one of the three

Then make a Ventrue with Megalomania.

If it was Requiem, I'd say Nosferatu. People pay up and don't give the girls any trouble because the John is creepy and the girls are hot (thanks to Familiar Stranger). Since this is Masquerade, I'm also going to say Nosferatu, but for different reasons.

My one Masquerade character concept was a prostipimp madame who played up the crazy intentionally and was overly protective of "the panhandlers and prostitutes of Hope Street". The idea was to play them as a mix of the "I'm just a clown, I don't plan, ignore all the planning I clearly did" Joker from Dark Knight and the climby gorilla weirdo Joker from The Batman. Their actual Derangement was Sanguinary Animism, and they liked having the girls' voices in their heads when they were out on patrol.

Declaring myself baron of a little stretch of street was a good way to get involved through the typical "the Prince makes you do things" method, but also kind of tied me to a single location, which is never a good idea for a PC.

Nosferatu - "I like broken things, give them a new meaning." Finds homeless people to use in his prostitution racket and gives them purpose.
Toreador - "The body is a beauty and sex is an art." A prostitution racket for the rich snobs, who like going to modern art museums.
Ventrue - "These things belong to me. I can break them. I can make them scream." A megalomaniac neo-slave owner.

>fourmoonspress.com/Mage/ExpandedFateFourSpells.pdf

> Choose Force, Life, Matter, or Mind. For the Duration of the spell, the Storyteller may create a twist of fate that emulates the effects of one Compelling spell of the chosen Arcanum. The effect is still treated as a Fate spell (not a spell
of the chosen Arcanum), although it can be manipulated by the appropriate Arcanum as an any natural manifestation within the Arcanum
’s purview.

Is that a literal "poach effects from other Arcana" spell? For shame, Onyx, for shame.

8 mages with 5 dots in one arcana and 0 in others play tg.
One prime mage is a dm.
They all apposing each other ( except dm ofc).
They allowed to use magick but not obvious one.
Who would win?

Only Compelling, and he's not acting in an official capacity. It's not even BAD, it's just the epitome of both "Fate is a grab bag who gives a fuck" and all the complaining Touhou had about badly written rules, albeit this time it's a badly written rule that just tells the Storyteller to do whatever.

Like, is it *MIMICKING* the other Arcana but still a "natural manifestation"? If I cast that on someone and the ST chooses Ground Eater, do they literally start making strides as Space itself shrinks around them with every step, or do they still keep the same Speed, but their effective speed has Potency added to it because they're going through a shortcut? If the ST decides to use Remote Control, is this a Supernal effect, or is the TV just spazzing out? If they choose Cleanse Body, is that literally Fate altering the body, or just their immune system gets better? If I use it and the Storyteller chooses Influence Electricity, is a random spark in the car hotwiring it, or is that Fate creating a spark?

It's simultaneously a great idea but also dumb. I mean, Fate is not the Arcanum I think of when I think of "the same effect as a different Arcanum's lower levels". Especially since it being chosen by the Storytelling means more work for the Storyteller and also that it's random and nonsensical. There are so many things to dislike about that spell that any neatness is overrun.

It is worth nothing that the unofficial "fixes" for Fate 4 spells directly allow a mage to with Fate 4 replicate Dispel Magic with +1 Reach.

How exactly does this work? Do the strands of destiny just rip apart a spell for no reason?

Let us not even get into the fact that the "designer intent" for Reading the Outmost Eddies and Shifting the Odds constantly give a mage and their cabal exceptional successes on three successes and whatever Social Merits they could need at any given moment, no spell control slots needed.

>Do the strands of destiny just rip apart a spell for no reason?
Yes. Honestly, that isn't the part that bothers me. Literally everything else is the part that bothers me. So somehow we agree and yet still disagree.

Although I think frankly the designer intent explanation is more confusing than what we already have.

Messing with Time.
youtu.be/mSPhclmRzck

So, the Pastebin's only got stuff for 1e, by the looks of things. Does anyone have links for poorfags to get 2e stuff from? In particular, Demon, its supplements, and Werewolf 2e.

>It is worth nothing that the unofficial "fixes" for Fate 4 spells directly allow a mage to with Fate 4 replicate Dispel Magic with +1 Reach.

>How exactly does this work? Do the strands of destiny just rip apart a spell for no reason?

Presumably, lucky things happen that happen to cancel out the effect of the spell. So, for instance, if a guy with Forces 4 is using a buildings electrical grid to throw fireballs at his enemies using Transform Energy, there's a mysterious power outage. If a Death mage is sending a ghost after somebody, all of the ghost's Anchors suffer mysterious accidents that leave them either dead or destroyed, causing the ghost to fall screaming into the Underworld. Stuff like that.

How exactly would it work if a Demon wanted to use Show of Power only to emulate other creature's powers, such as a mage's casting? I'm guessing I can cast any particular spell I've observed or been targeted by, with the stipulation that I'd have to spend a Reach for instant casting, but if I need Reach for instant casting how do I know what other Reaches I get from casting?

But that doesn't make sense, because the magic's still there even if whatever it was affecting goes away.

As a GM, I'd say you'd have to exactly mimic all the aspects of the spell you were targeted with, including all of the Reaches and Spell Factors they were using.

Yeah, that is the conclusion I eventually came to as well. I think I'll just need to keep a list of the stuff the rest of my group has cast.

pastebin.com/7sSgGVPH

You can't Dispell a ghost...
And it's worth noting that if we assume the guy is reasonable (I know, big assumption) then it's not literally the Arcanum effect, just coincidences. So it's not Dispel, it's wacky occurrences that have the same outcome. It's also worth noting that these are chosen by the Storyteller, so there's no real guarantee that you directly use Dispel. Although let's be honest if you cast it on some active magic there's basically only one thing it could be. Honestly, if it was cleared up to be less vague and dumb and all the things I've been saying aren't actually problems but here it actually is because he's supposed to be FIXING those things, the spell would be "neato".

So with Dispel, basically the spell would fall apart.

You just monkey see, monkey do. You're not casting the spell, you're just glitching the Matrix so that the same thing happens.

Yeah, that's the pastebin in the OP. It's only got 1e stuff in the mega bin, and the individual links are only to the Demon Storyteller Guide, Mage 2e, and Beast. No Vampire, Werewolf, Demon, or Flowers of Hell.

This is what I've got on this computer
>Vampire
sendspace.com/file/ke6k6b
>Werewolf
sendspace.com/file/sg5rw0

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Dada
Would they be a Cabal of Scelesti?

yeeeeeeeah. So, having woken up to wonder what everyone's talking about. This is why I tell freelancers to not put house rules up, even *with* ' this not official' written on them.

They're not going into the game.

Do you still hate Obrimos though?

Yo Dave. When I asked you a couple months ago, you said that there would be some sort of support for High Ritual-ish actions to supercede 1e's ritual casting, so that mages can make preparation pay off.

What is it? I can't seem to find it in the book.

That has bad tidings for the WoD canon index, which I see moved off Wikidot. I wonder if we're going to see White Wolf AB set down some fan material rules as well.

Dave, so Chaos Mastery is still fully canon? With the "I'm better at Life than Life is" clauses and such?

No?

(Also, my favorite Path are Thyrsus, not Acanthus.)

Does the freelancer that wrote Prime and Forces?

I'm not being hostile, but whose idea was it to outsource one section (Arcana) to several different people to write?

Dave, can Scelesti form Cabals?

Non-yantra dice bonus for taking repeats of your ritual casting interval, no time constraints on throwing yantras on, not needing that first Reach for insta-casting, and ability to nor easily coordinate group casting and Sleepwalker (and Sleeper if you're a Libertine) assistants. If you have the time to do it, it's still well worth using a proper ritual to cast in.

I would assume it was "anyone who wants the book to be done". Splitting the Arcana is the logical way to tackle the huge word count.

>yantra bonuses

Boop boop boop, down and dirty spellcasting as long as there's no "time constraints" or "pressure," amirite, Dave?

As it currently stands, Acanthoi (and Time mages) are the only "real beings" amongst Mages, since only they have memories across timestreams, regarding Time. Regarding Fate, they are the only real beings because manipulating chances like Fate does implies that choices of a lot of things happening are a random thing, rather than a choice of an NPC.

NPCs being somehow metaphysically less important with PCs might make sense in something like a PbtA game, but it makes no sense in Mage. Why is Fate made to work that way?

Two Different freelancers. And that's how rpg writing works, user. One writer, one Chapter is really rare. (Werewolf is downright unusual in all gifts being done by Chris).

I did make sure no one writer handled both halves of a Path: Fate-guy didn't do Time.

Sure, especially the new who've got a corrupt Legacy. Most Scelesti are loners, though.

Once again, performing a ritual does not mean "no pressure".

>Most Scelesti are loners, though.
Ah dicks, so you could have Scelesti who were nods to the Brotherhood of Dada, but not the Brotherhood itself. right?

I have no idea what that is.

Scelesti tend to infiltrate the Orders rather than form independent cults because all six Orders have a major hate-on for them, and the gateway drug of Befouling your spells requires no organizational background: new Abyss-addicts are constantly arising among mage society without existing Scelesti having to do anything, and if they live long enough to Join their Path to a Dur-Abzu they do more damage in the Orders than out.

They're Doom Patrol villains, specifically from Morrison's run. A lot of Morrison's Doom Patrol is like the rough draft for all of his later work, including The Invisibles.

How so? You're preparing yourself while you're not under pressure specifically to whip out the results when you're under pressure.

For that matter, a question! Am I reading this wrong, or there's pretty much no benefit to making an item for personal use via Prime 4?

For that matter (x2), can a Fate Mage add or remove the quality of tension from a scene via Ruling?

By stretching the strings of Fate in the vicinity taut, or giving them extra slack.

Dave, could you confirm how Supernal Magic interacts with the Hedge in 2e? Does it count as an Emanation Realm (no paradox for linked Arcanum unless witnessed by Sleepers, +2 Yantra bonus for Arcanum), or does it just work like the Shadow/Astral/Underworld in that spells of the suitable Arcanum get -2 Paradox?

I use the yardstick of "is there any tension around the room for if this spell works or not" to decide whether or nit to use Down and Dirty. Someone sapping their habitual monthly Shielding spell on? Don't use the mechanics. Ritually scrying for the abyssal entity or preparing your countermeasures against the traitor of the day
? Use the full magic rules.

Like with down and dirty combat, you get the hang of it with practice. If it's gone midnight out of character and you just want to gloss over a spell so your session's climax isn't delayed by an hour, that's when to not bother.

Dave, you know that using down and dirty still means you can cheese the fuck out of spells out of combat, right?

So there are yardsticks, not a "must" use? Because people said, you _must_ use DaD in some circumstances.

Also, the Prime ●● spell Words of Fire still lets you test theories with some creativity regarding manipulating beliefs with Mind.

For that matter, that caveat is rather weird. What stops you from directly checking for a statement's veracity as backed up by the realm of Cosmic Truths (or not backed up as the case might be) with Prime 2 Unveiling, or, hell, Prime 1 Knowing? Pierce Deception is, after all, a thing.

I'll wait until C2e is done before making such pronouncements, in case David decides for himself, but it'd either be a Paradox penalty to Fate or no alterations to magic. The Hedge isn't an Emanation Realm. (I know what it is at the moment, but again, David might rewrite it between here and C2e coming out!)

Hey man, quick question.
Legacy Attainments immune to Quiescence, right?
Being the manifest power of an Awakened Soul, rather than the Supernal.
I can't find anywhere it's explicitly stated.

Does Exceptional Luck for Informed with the +2 Reach for affecting spellcasting allow a Rote Mudra-using spellcasting roll to exceptionally succeed with only one success?

If so, then you could use Fate 2's Exceptional to gain the Informed Condition on a Skill tied to one of your Rotes, and use +2 Reach to apply it to spellcasting. Use the 9-again boon on a chance die to turn it into a regular die, then Steadfast to make it an automatic success, then Informed to convert it to an exceptional success.
You can now go from -5 on a spellcasting roll to an automatic exceptional success, which seems like a bit much.

Why does killing with a Legacy attainment (a part of the fallen world) not risk Wisdom, but killing with a gun does?

Because your Legacy is a manifestation of your Mystic self.
It's the form you have quite literally shaped your Soul into.
To regret or believe you have transgressed in the use of the very form you chose for your Soul is laughable.

>To regret or believe you have transgressed

But the Wisdom subsystem doesn't care for that, or you would have been able to confound your moral center by using Mind.

It doesn't even care for your mental stats.

My big gripe with Wisdom is that right now it cares nothing about what sort of person you are. Dave promised us "Wisdom which is different from Integrity with added/renamed questions for Breaking Points" and he technically delivered that, but current Wisdom cares nothing for your ability to rationalize your actions and feels like it's bolted onto your soul by alien space bats.

I want to be like one of those BBEG wizards in the fantasy games. I can get a towerlike place to hole up in, but how do I make myself some autonomous minions for protection?

Golems.

Additionally, what is stopping these functions of "boon":

>• Grant a dice bonus equal to Potency on certain actions (usually a single Skill) for a number of rolls equal to the Potency of the spell during its Duration. Multiple boons cannot grant their bonus to the same action; only the highest bonus counts. The subject’s player chooses which of his rolls are affected by this boon before rolling the dice.

>• Grant a number of beneficial Conditions (such as Charmed, Informed, Inspired, or Steadfast) equal to Potency for the Duration of the spell. None of these Conditions grant Beats when the subject resolves them (unless the caster achieved an exceptional success in the casting).

From applying to spellcasting even without the +2 Reach option of Exceptional Luck? There is no provision against using them for spellcasting here.

The entire "hex"/"boon" subsystem of Fate is frustratingly vaguely-written.

Dave, is the the lack of a dicepool for navigating within an Astral layer in the 2e core one of those things you put under reserved another book instead of Errata? Because that literally made us stop our Astral adventures last session, and having to wait several books for that simple dicepool would suck.

Matter if you prefer non-living.
Prime if you prefer constructs.
Life is you prefer living.

10 point if you go Life and fill it with D&D type animals.
100 points if you have Owlbears.

>100 points if you have Owlbears.
How would you stat an Owlbear using 2e CofD?

>current Wisdom cares nothing for your ability to rationalize your actions and feels like it's bolted onto your soul by alien space bats.

Why do you think that the Silver Ladder thinks that it was created by the Exarchs?

1e had a whole book about doing that: Astral Realms. I'm pretty sure it'd all work for 2e, too, since all the NPC stats were just for Goetia, and they haven't changed that much between editions.

You take a Bear, and then give it the senses of an Owl. Take a look at the Transform Life spell, in Life 3.

The Exarchs are Alien Space Bats?

>Why do you think that the Silver Ladder thinks that it was created by the Exarchs?

My headcanon is that the whole new edition is the work of the Abyss.

Consider: One of the rank 8 abyssal creature-unborn-worlds managed to slip through an Imperial Act that wasn't countered by the archmages and various elder rank 6+ spirits; thus all magic everywhere became more shitty — rituals are shittier, Hallows and Artifacts do not channel mana down anymore since the links to Supernality are weaker.

Arcadia, however, somehow slipped shards of itself into the Abyssal working, therefore Fate and Time are a lot better than they were, if abyssally-corrupted and thus unclear.

>1e had a whole book about doing that
Yes, but that's 1e. Looks like the Dicepool changed (if only because the new rules mean Astral travelers don't actually have the Attribute in question anymore thanks to using the Spirit Attribute spread) and switching to a 2e canon dicepool earlier rather than later would be helpful.

In addition, this accounts for "everyone remembering things to always have been this way". Imperial Acts tend to do that.

>IC Explanations for OOC mechanics

Go back to Exalted 2e and stay go

Can someone tell me the way to the Unknown Armies general? I don't wanna stay here

I won't either go or stay go. I can't use this heap of rules in any reasonable way without rewriting like 60% of it right now (especially since my game on hiatus that I stopped GMing for a bit with the intention to come back to it once 2e drops is effectively dead, because it had two Acanthoi and a Time-user Thyrsus), my hype is almost completely dead, so I might as well have what scraps and modicums of fun I can.

I've been waiting for this game since before it was Mage 2e. This is just so... disappointing.

Hey, at least now I can timeslide my way using official spells and not just some very creative use of precognition.

Sure you can, Bonesaw. Sure you can. As well as not be able to race the reaper anymore, because a Thyrsus medic cannot heal lethal at Life 3.

Why not just play something else instead of feeling obligated to put in the work? It's not to your liking, that doesn't mean you have to engage in fanfiction as to why you don't like it or why you feel that it's bad.

If you're going to indulge in that kind of thinking instead of just moving on, well, there's a whole edition with lots of support you can play, and it even uses the same basic dice pool system. It's even got magic in it.

Question: If a Werewolf walks past a Mage in Dalu (giant human) form, will their Badass Motherfucker passive ability trigger the Mage's Peripheral Mage Sight?

>Body Control
>Knit with time component
What are you even talking about?

>Why not just play something else instead of feeling obligated to put in the work? It's not to your liking, that doesn't mean you have to engage in fanfiction as to why you don't like it or why you feel that it's bad.
>If you're going to indulge in that kind of thinking instead of just moving on, well, there's a whole edition with lots of support you can play, and it even uses the same basic dice pool system. It's even got magic in it.

I've thought about it. Stages of grief of some sort, for me. I _am_ going to move on, but until then I am somewhat content to roast some marshmallows over this fire. I am just, you know, coming to terms with the fact that the thing that I've been waiting for since before Fall 2014 is... totally not what I expected.

Thankfully, I have a fallback idea of doing a campaign of minor talents and fractals, someday. But that comes later, I don't have the drive for it now.

If it is any consolation to you, earlier, I had played in a very enjoyable one-on-one session of Mage 2e... but not in Storyteller. Instead, we used a highly trimmed, customized PbtA hack. We opted to do so after seeing just how much of a trainwreck it would be to use the magic system of Mage 2e, particularly Fate and Time (my character was an Acanthus out of concept).

My character got to brighten the day of a few young gafflings in the Shadow (one of which was a laptop-spirit who expressed thanks in the smiley equivalent of the First Tongue), while solving a mystery involving a changeling's fetch and a draconic Incarna that simply loved to burn down a single manor every year.

Life-based healing took such a major hit in Mage 2e. It is a shame.

No Unknown Armies general at the moment, someone'll have to start one. Otherwise the only place to talk about urban fantasy wizards is here.

>Thankfully, I have a fallback idea of doing a campaign of minor talents and fractals, someday. But that comes later, I don't have the drive for it now.

Take a look at the Hurt Locker Open Development stuff, then; there's like four or five new minor templates, plus a bunch of additional Supernatural Merits that expand on the ones in the corebook.

Well, "cannot heal lethal without jumping through a shitload of hoops" at least. Disregard.

Any details on this hack you wanna share? Did you use Simple World to build it?

>If it is any consolation to you, earlier, I had played in a very enjoyable one-on-one session of Mage 2e... but not in Storyteller.

I'm thinking of making a Fate Core hack myself — but that makes all backwards compatibility go down the shitter.

>Take a look at the Hurt Locker Open Development stuff, then; there's like four or five new minor templates, plus a bunch of additional Supernatural Merits that expand on the ones in the corebook

That's what pushed me to hash out the idea, yes. Dreamers are awesome. I wanted to blend Dreamers and Hotel Mascaron for a supremely Memento x Hotline Miami feel.

Unfortunately, it would never hold up in a group game. Due to a lack of "real" character creation rules, it would only really work in a one-on-one game wherein the player can simply write in whatever abilities they would like to have on their character sheet and then earn new magical abilities through a Paradox-like mechanic. The hack was also set up such that a character only ever has two dice values: things they are good at (2d6+2) and things they are mediocre at (flat 2d6), which only really holds up in a one-on-one game wherein the character must be somewhat omnicompetent.

I see. That's disappointing, I'm always interested in people playing settings with propietary systems in other systems and seeing how those work. I could see that being a decent base for another game (not even necessarily PbtA based), but yeah that'd fall apart in a group.

For those who are disappointed with two-dot Attainments, it is worth noting that Mage 2e explicitly states:
>The second dot of an Arcanum grants a Lesser Utility Attainment and a form of Mage Armor.
>Lesser Utilities are Attainments that fit into the purview of the Arcana, but don’t map to the Practices and rely more on a general understanding of the Arcanum in question than of specific spells. Below are some of the most common Lesser Utilities, though the players and the Storyteller may devise others.

Thus, a player is free to craft their own two-dot Attainments. This would be most beneficial when replacing Forces 2's near-useless Precise Force Attainment. A Mind mage uninterested in goetia might even trade out Mind's Eye.

What would you personally replace Forces 2's Precise Force with?

I have seen one or two Fate Core hacks for Mage: The Awakening, but I cannot seem to find them at the moment. Likewise, I believe Urban Shadows, a PbtA-based clone of World of Darkness, has various fanmade playbooks for vaguely "authentic" World of Darkness supernatural types, but I cannot attest to their quality.

Oh. Does that mean that I could craft Constant Presence Attainment to not waste a spell control slot on it?

If your GM allows it, Bonesaw. I would have.

Actually, the idea I'm thinking off isn't really WoD/CofD related at all. You might have actually stumbled upon a McGuyver simulator, or something that could work with action movies.

Try Adventure! Tales of Aeon Society.

That would come at the cost of Temporal Sympathy, however, thereby rendering *you* unable to fool around with the past, short of Shifting Sands and Corridors of Time and creative thaumaturgy equivalents of those two.

>You might have actually stumbled upon a McGuyver simulator, or something that could work with action movies.

I do not believe I have stumbled upon either.

>Wisdom decays through Acts of Hubris, wherein a mage ignores consequence in pursuit of her goals. Every mage and every circumstance is different from a Wisdom standpoint. Two mages in nearly identical circumstances may cast the same spell or commit the same action, but to one, his Wisdom is safe while the other risks degeneration.
>In the Acts of Hubris section below, you’ll see example acts for each level of Wisdom. These are only general recommendations. As a Storyteller, assess each action for potential hubris, and compare to the character’s Wisdom. If the character’s Wisdom is equal to or higher than the level you feel fits the action, the character risks degeneration.
>Acts of Hubris determine when a mage risks Wisdom degeneration. While this list is not exhaustive, it’s also only a series of guidelines. Feel free to add, take away, or adjust as you see fit.

No. Passive abilities don't trigger PMS, only active ones.

A one-on-one game of a competent protagonist who becomes more competent at great risk sounds an awful lot like something out of Die Hard to me, but fair enough.

That's the new edition I'm hoping for most out of the new Trinity Continuum. I love Adventure! and always found it strange that it and Spirit of the Century were more or less the only game in town for pulp gaming.

Where does it say that there's fixed numbers of attainments, though? Or that I cannot sacrifice the Time Armour instead?
Now that I think of it, sacrificing time armour is rather fluffy - having armour that will protect you against being erased from timeline instead of protecting against damage.

Yes, and? It -says- each Mage's Wisdom is different, but then goes on to produce a restrictive list of triggers for degeneration checks, with no way to personalize it (short of GotV Masque ●●●● or Inuring) and with no connection to what your character feels and how justified they are.

RAW, a premeditated murder of a sentient being is a medium Wisdom sin, no matter what the being is. How the more combative Arrows are supposed to stay sane I have no idea.
How -Scelesti- are supposed to stay non-Mad, I have even less of an idea — for Arrows one could just assume they naturally stabilize at Wisdom 3.

>The second dot of an Arcanum grants a Lesser Utility Attainment and a form of Mage Armor.
>Lesser Utilities are Attainments that fit into the purview of the Arcana, but don’t map to the Practices and rely more on a general understanding of the Arcanum in question than of specific spells. Below are some of the most common Lesser Utilities, though the players and the Storyteller may devise others.

Mage Armor is mandatory.

One -can- construe Constant Presence to be a form of Mage Armor (in fact, a lot more important armor than the x/y armor).

Forces mage for sure.
>Friction Knife
>Gravity Shift

All they need to do is survive.