Is he a Mary Sue?

All the Primarchs were Sues.

They would be Mary Sues if they had no flaws, but they all had some pretty glaring flaws that came back to bite them in the ass at various points of their lives.

Its only because papa emps knew he wouldn't be around, and wanted them to grow up tough.

>He's got pretty major character faults in being ridiculously focused on the task at hand and not messing with any other viewpoints on anything.

As well as being completely unable to read other peoples emotions. He often questions the loyalty of his own men who are 100% devoted to him because he admits he can't actually tell if they're loyal or not.

Despite fucking up the DA books horribly, BL has actually done a good job at balancing out the Lion at bit. While he's portrayed as a military genius and perfect swordsmen, he's near-autistic in his inability to understand other people. It keeps fucking him up: from sending Luther to Caliban where he ferments rebellion to giving Perturabo ordinatus engines because he thought he was still loyalist.

Meanwhile guys like Lorgar instantly knew that Fulgrim was an impostor simply by facial twitches.

...

>Meanwhile guys like Lorgar instantly knew that Fulgrim was an impostor simply by facial twitches.

Lorgar is also THE best Primarch at reading people, because of his almost excessive amounts of empathy. He is straight-up stated to be the most emotional and most empathetic of all the Primarchs.

>He's got pretty major character faults in being ridiculously focused on the task at hand and not messing with any other viewpoints on anything.
Wow what a meaningful flaw. What else, he's clumsy and bad at math?

He was legitimately autistic too. One of the like three Primarchs that were legitimately autistic.

>like three Primarchs that were legitimately autistic
Lemme guess, the other two are Pert and Dorn and you think they're autistic just because they're good engineers

>Wow what a meaningful flaw.
Yeah the entire reason the dark angels had their little heresy and is still having bother more than 10,000 years on and why the Lion sleeps tonight is pretty inconsequential.

Pert is one, but not because he's an Engineer.

The other autistic one is Kurze.

>and you think they're autistic just because they're good engineers

No, because they legit do not understand how to communicate emotions with other people, even their own brothers, nor can they understand them when displayed by other people. The only time Pert ever shows any "real" emotion is when he asks Fulgrim if he can see the Eye of Terror. When Fulgrim tells him he can't, and jokingly asks if he's spent too long in the trenches, Pert takes it very personally, and immediately closes up again. That's pretty much classic autistic behavior right there.

Kurze was a schizo.

You don't actually know what autism is, do you?

Pic related is literally the only Primarch who did nothing wrong

If not shitposting and you're being serious, then you clearly didn't read the HH.

Russ's flaw was that he lived a lie, and because he was living a lie he was often too over-zealous in attempting to prove himself to the Emperor and to himself.

Best boy Sangy was flawless.

>Russ's flaw was that he lived a lie

No that was Lionel Jonson who was a closet homosex

True enough

and that's why Space Jesus had to be sacrificed so the Emperor could save the galaxy

Not true at all. He would have fallen to Chaos if some Sanguinary Priest hadn't sacrificed himself instead. Also his DNA is more fucked than the Chernobyl first responders

Russ never wanted to be the type of person he became. He was dumped onto a savage, feral world surrounded by people who only understood violence, so he became a savage and violent person in order to attempt to rule them. He wears a mask (that anybody of psychic power is able to see cracks in) of a feral savage because he believes that is who he is supposed to be, and he is incredibly vicious and aggressive towards his brothers because he thinks he SHOULD be. He is issued the title of the Emperors Executioner, and is sicc'ed on two of his brothers to destroy them. Being the savage, vicious hound that nips at the heels of his brothers to stay in line is not what he wanted to be, so to compensate he "overdoes" it with things like Prospero and the blood feud with the Dark Angels.

I don't think so. He's not really any more obnoxious than any other of the powerful figures of the setting. He is blatantly a power-fantasy wish fulfilment character of little literary interest. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

How is that a flaw? Also are you suggesting Leman Russ would be a completely different person if given the chance?

>How is that a flaw?

How is over-zealotry and overcompenation NOT a flaw in your book? It's not the worst flaw a man can have, but it's still most certainly a flaw.

> Also are you suggesting Leman Russ would be a completely different person if given the chance?

Pretty much, yeah, and that's the impression given to most psychic people who interact with him long enough for him to "slip up" and drop his psychic mask for half a second. He acts like a feral, brutal savage because he thinks that's what he's supposed to act like, and whenever he drops his "mask" it's revealed that there is a LOT more going on in that head than he lets on (Magnus and Ahriman both witness this). Furthermore, when he's in private with his brothers, he sometimes lets little things slip by that suggest he's not as savage and uncultured as he lets on, and they pick up on it.

I don't know about "completely different person," but he'd certainly be different if he thought he was allowed to be. He just "knew his place," and acted like he thought he was supposed to.

>when he's in private with his brothers, he sometimes lets little things slip by that suggest he's not as savage and uncultured as he lets on

Only Magnusfags think Russ is an Angron tier retard. It's obvious in every interaction with him that he's playing a deeper game

Nobody thinks he's retarded. They just thought that he had a "one-track mind," which is very different. It gets revealed sometimes that he has other hopes and dreams unrelated to his job, and that he doesn't really enjoy his job much. That's what I'm referring to.

I agree with you pham. I think Russ is one of the most complex figures in 30k, I don't get why he gets so much hate. He has that bulldog determination but he's much more than meets the eye

>Nobody thinks he's retarded

Magnusfags and Loinfags do

>I think Russ is one of the most complex figures in 30k

Most of the Primarchs are actually really complex characters, most especially Russ, Magnus, Lorgar, Guilliman, The Khan, and Ferrus. Even Angron isn't just point-and-click rage all of the time, and is revealed to have a personality lying under all that brain damage.

I see what you did there. Clever girl, clever girl

Eh, I'd argue that Magnus, Girlyman, Ferrus and Angron are all pretty vanilla. I'd say Khan but we don't know shit about him

>the horse heresy, now in .jpg
SPACEWOLVESBESTWOLVES
*INSERT 80'S GUITAR RIFF*
(SORRY GUYS BUT I HEARD CAPSLOCK WAS CRUISECOMTROL FOR COOL)

Seconded

I have to politely disagree

>Disobeying the giant asshole space atheist who punches his own sons for arbitrary reasons
>Not expecting some form of retaliation

>Russ followed orders from his 'trusted brother', he acted with the knowledge that he was in the right, intent is the biggest factor in a crime

Not really? Sorta? Maybe?
In the sense that a Mary Sue usually goes about solving everyone's problems just to prove how great he/she is, of course not. On the other hand, he's supposedly the greatest thing since before sliced bread, and the entirety of humanity won't shut up about him.
He hits some tropes for being a Mary Sue, but not all of the requisite ones, so I'd label him a tentative 'no' until GW asspulls him to get off his throne and start whupping xenos.

He's sort of like an anti-Mary Sue because despite having great qualities on paper, he manages to be an astounding fuckup.
Of all the primarchs, he's probably the most like the Emperor...

Russ is pathetic no matter how hard Black Library tries to backtrack on that.

He and his legion ran around claiming they were actually enlightened barbarians who were only doing dumb, wasteful, inefficient, counterproductive shit for the sake or irony. But they can't stop being ironically shit.

The best way to sum up Russ is to compare him to his rival, Lion.
Russ was found decades before the Lion, yet brought fewer planets into the Imperium during the Crusade.
The even that set off the rivalry between the two was an example of Russ being an incompetent tactician- without even noticing, Lion managed to outmaneuver him and win the day despite Russ convinced he was about to pull off a victory.
So maybe Russ isn't a thinking primarch like Guilleman or Magnus, but is instead one of the fighty primarchs, like Ferrus or Angron?
Well, he's also in the lower end of physical capability as well- he suckerpunches Lion which just pisses him off. When the Lion suckerpunches him he PASSES OUT OF A FUCKING DAY.

...

>he

Konrad Curze did literally nothing wrong.

BWHAHAHAH

how's Fenris, by the way?

No.He is filename of your pic related.
Source - I am the filename of your pic related.

>Actually be living the meme

Couldn't you and Guilliman just talk like normal people and be brothers?

YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WAS COOL, HOWEVER YOU STILL HAD TO STEER!

You also forgot the night of the wolf, where he attempted to strong arm Angron, then risked losing his entire legion to the world eaters just to kill angron, only to have angron call him out to pull the trigger and him back out, meaning he threw his men's lives away for literally nothing but a dick measuring contest, which he lost at.

Seriously, Russ has not had a single victory that matters with other legions, even prospero was a failure as Magnus and sons escaped.

>Slayer of brothers.
>Has librarians but that is ok, everybody elses is a witch.
>His men are mutating but that is ok too, everybody elses mutations are heretic.
>Hot head
>Nothing wrong.

OK

>Russ was found decades before the Lion, yet brought fewer planets into the Imperium during the Crusade.

Russ' job wasn't to bring planets into the fold. That was guys like Horus and Rowboat. Russ' job was to keep already compliant worlds in line with the threat of force. He did have more military victories than any one except Horus and even completely destroyed an entire Eldar Craftworld

He did not have more victories than lion 'lights out' Johnson.

I'm pretty sure they intentionally state multiple Primarchs were second only to Horus in victories.

Pick related is canonically the greatest Primarch, the most successful general, the best warrior, the best leader and the best person. No amount of Russposting faggotry or tryhard Liongobbling will change this. And no, it's not the corpse on the floor, it's fucking Horus Lupercal: The only Primarch that matters.

>The best person
>Literally broke the entire Imperium

I want the Black Legion to leave.

>Black Legion
>amiring Horus
M8 r u 4 real?

>admiring
selffix

Yes, the best person. The one everyone respected. The big brother to every Primarch, from Russ to Alpharius. The fact that he fell to Chaos due to magic bullshit just makes the setting more grimdark.

Plus it's the Emperors fault everything went to shit.

>Hello, it is I, the worst Primarch!

He ordered the deaths of Loken and Torgaddon, killed Iacton Qruze and based Pius and purged his own legion and three others in a massive virus bombing, before breaking apart three more in a massive fucking ambush. Those are all pretty shitty things.

Loken a shit and disloyal faggot who betrayed his father and brothers for a shitty tyrant.

See

>that filename
AAYYYYYY

Traitor legion loyalists are the best loyalists, you shit. Terran OGs for life.

Horse Could not understand why he was appointed as War-master when Sanguinius was not. Whatever Horus was, Sanguinius could always be better if there were on the same footing.

That just proves Horus was also the best at being humble. Do you think Sanguinius could have ruined everything anywhere near as well as Horus did?

>Autistic
>Half the Legion betrayed him
>Not Sanguinius or Guilliman

Diagnostic: Not a Mary Sue

Aren't you supposed to be dead, Horus?

Horus was a pawn.
Abaddon can't be controlled by the Dark Gods.

Has a good internal dialogue about it in Wolf King.

PDF of it?

It usually seems to be Dark Angels in second most of the time. Rowboat had most worlds in compliance, but fewer campaigns and wins. Imperial Fists, by contrast, have most of the greatest victories, so they get laurels? Read that somewhere, maybe on here.

Pretty sure they all admitted that of them all, Sang was the only one who would never fall to Chaos no matter the circumstance.

>It usually seems to be Dark Angels in second most of the time

Yeah because they can claim victories for both the traitor and loyalist sides

Nice meme.

>Sanguinius
>Mary Sue

Nigga he's literally a Christ analogue.

50% Jesus Christ, 50% Saint Michael.
Sanguinius is one bad motherfucker.

He's a Space Marine, of course he is.

>most of legion and legion homeworld go traitor
m-meme

And yet he did nothing of note other than getting heemed by Horus

And people that hate Russ' psyker hypocrisy and 'pretend' (according to BL shit) barbarianism.