Could a setting where everything is Earth-sized except for a race of 40 foot tall elves produce enough food to feed the...

The atmosphere on Earth was very different when Dinosaurs still existed. It was significantly more oxygen rich, which is why so many ancient creatures seem impossibly huge compared to what we have today.

Most Zentradi were shrunk down to human size because they didn't have enough resources to feed a race of giants after Earth got glassed, but the ones that stayed huge are shown having no problems breathing our atmosphere.

So, really good lungs, I guess?

Well, they are a genetically engineered warrior people created by the setting's hyper-advanced precursor race. Designing them to be able to handle low oxygen volume relative to their size just seems logical.

Actually, thinking back to the original series, Vreetai tanked explosive decompression a couple of times. May or may not have involved a fistfight on the hull of his ship.

Yeah, the Zentraedi are pretty fucking tough.

The Zentradi were engineered organisms to act as mass produced soldiers by the now extinct Protoculture. Their biology is pretty damn impressive.

We have never seen a Zentradi die of old age. So far as we know, they live until someone shoots them.

Even when shrunk down into much weaker human sized bodies, a Zentradi is still strong enough to rip a car door clean off and tough enough to treat getting slammed by large metal objects as flesh wounds.

In the original series, we saw one of the Zentradi commanders get flung out into space during a battle, without a suit. He held his breath, walked along the surface fo the ship the the nearest airlock, and then made his way back to the battle inside of the ship and beat the shit out of some robots with his bare hands.

Especially given that last example, I think it is safe to say that surviving in a low oxygen environment isn't out of the question for them.

I can't wait for one of those Windemeren shits to try and infiltrate Ragna so that Cap Earnest can punch that fucker through a wall.

>Could a setting where everything is Earth-sized except for a race of 40 foot tall elves produce enough food to feed the 40 foot tall elves without starving everything else on the planet
if they eat nothing but semen, maybe

In the context of Macross, I don't think its an issue.

The Zentradi lived for millions of years eating whatever mass produced meal rations it is that the factory sats crank out. So, if nothing else, the same logistical netowrk that fueled their battle groups can easily feed them, and lots of Zentradi spend their time micronized now, so they should have a surplus.

6 times as tall as a human means requiring 6^2 times as much energy, which is 36 times as much food.
A city that can support 3.600.000 people can support 100.000 giant elves.
But they also produce much more heat and can't work as much in a day an they'd be contantly eating to get it all digested in a reasonable timeframe, so let's say half as much.
How many elves did you want there to be on this planet?

It's a real shame they're such cunts. Their VFs are pure sex.

Reminds me of that a certain fetish artist actually did his research and made his giant elves sleep 20 hours a day to save energy. Not that that didn't stop them from being ludicrously huge, and other general unrelatisticness, but it wasn't exactly what you'd call a serious setting anyway.

I am aware, but dinosaurs where outrageously huge even by the high level of oxygen on the atmosphere when they were alive. Dinosaurs had extremely high surface area for gas exchange as their respiratory system extended into hollow potions of their bones. You can still that adaptation in the giant cassowary which has hollows in its ribs that connect to it s lungs.

Enough so they're not incredibly inbred, so a couple thousand?

Its possible these giant elves have evolved more efficient solutions to these biological problems than humans have.

>punch that fucker through a wall.
I want to see him judo-throw someone through the floor. Just pure destroy the cunt.

Pile driver onto the flight deck.

"And this is how you perform a nonlethal takedown!"

*SPLAT*

"DECULTURE! Wow. ...In my defense, if he was a Zentradi he would have survived that."

>>The Zentradi were engineered organisms to act as mass produced soldiers by the now extinct Protoculture. Their biology is pretty damn impressive.
Doing this to a half Zentradi infant is considered relatively safe. They have fucking crazy genetics for their skeletal system to allow them to not collapse on themselves when in giant form.

>>I can't wait for one of those Windemeren shits to try and infiltrate Ragna so that Cap Earnest can punch that fucker through a wall.
I'm pretty sure any fight with a 7'4 full blooded Zentradi commander that doesn't start with you nailing him in the head with a burst from a high powered rifle is gonna be a fight where the other guy gets smeared all over the walls.

Sure, just make them magical or cybernetic in that way that they don't need to eat or breath. They could be fully powered by magic or electricity.

Use all the resources you would have put into training and equipping an army into hiring giant elves for your warfights, since humans would have no fucking chance against them.

Then sell them food. Or, just trade food for protection...?

I'm not an economist.

Fighting off a dragon has to be worth a couple of cows.

The dragon actually belongs to the army. They're fighting off a giantess incursion. Who's a good dragon? Who's a good dragon? You are! You are!

Dragon: AAAAAAAAA! GETITOFFME!
Giant: Back away or I snap it's neck!

Speaking as someone with a setting with forty foot tall elves, the answer is 'yes, but you don't get a lot of them.' so basically what said. Except I tend to assume a few hundred as my multiple instead of 36.

similar here, the fact they were engineered by one of the older species more or less as a combination of art project and exotic-morph vacation retreat is the only reason they're able to exist.

It's shown right in the first series that Zentraedi can survive the vacuum of space(for only a short time, presumably)

Eyy it's Legacy-verse guy.

I just checked the DA group and nothing is going on.

Is porject kill?

>implying the dragon isn't her pet, and that a military regiment happened upon them playing.
He's just a big puppy dog, and she's just a big girl playing with the family pet.

Hey! Nothing on the dA group lately. I'm still working on it, things are just sorta...slow, for a variety of mostly personal reasons. (Medical and musical-lodging, chiefly.)

I also just don't update much on the dA for various reasons. I'm hoping to work out some sort of setting book for it soon, but I tend to trip up on how to start, what information is relevant, etc etc.

Hell, if anyone has a good example of format for a sci-fant setting book, or advice on such in general, I'd be intrigued.

Like a show/game bible?

Mayhaps look at the Fallout Bible? It's not a sort of 'guide-to-the-universe' deal, just chronicles the developer's thoughts and ideas.

Also, I'd say just mark out a basic timeline, fill up that time line with short stories and stuff and before you know it: pow! Universe made!

Something like that yeah, though more akin to an actual playable setting book. been looking at EP's sunward/rimward for inspiration a bit.

I do want to attach a game system to it eventually and see what happens.

Some of the various whatnot I've been poking at:
Rough outline of how a starystem entry might go:
docs.google.com/document/d/1CwiXqCuOlOlcdVi1RTyuM9GDo91qwshc1o7_cCr7SO8/edit#heading=h.novde3kga2la

Half-assed notes we poke at from time to time, including the mentioned timeline:
docs.google.com/document/d/1VHyKDxfJPk-8Q8N_3TJoPlQm9dhf0Y7WDcN5Ry4gZ38/edit#

I'd say figure out your 'meta-narrative': that is, the overarching history and 'plot'. Then, have your information in all of your entries be separated in two: the fluffy info; the info about the stuff itself, and the plot-related info; info of what this thing's place in the universe(and its narrative) is.

Also, I want to practice writing. Got any ideas? I'd be happy to be a part-time contributor.

here

if you want some more technical info about space I find that this website is indispensable.

projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/

Even if you aren't going fora scientifically accurate story, this helps give you a good idea of space travel and all the problems and situations that come with it.

Also, are there giant robots? Because giant robots are cool.

Not immediately, but my email is there, and we run an ongoing group chat (even if it's been a little inactive lately) on skype, if you want to throw a line at [email protected]

Also have a chatroom on the dA chat.deviantart.com/chat/legacyChat
if you (or anyone else) wants to drop in, I'll likely be idling around it for a few hours.

While I have a good idea of the overarching history of the setting, I'm not a particularly huge fan of the concept of a 'meta-plot' for a setting, at least in the way I often see it used.

I'm actually familiar with the linked site. XD I used it for their page on space weapons rather extensively.

There are, but they're fairly specialized. There's a whole host of reasons giant robots don't work super well on the modern/future battlefield, and i try to stick with them. With similar issues plaguing the giant aliens, for that matter.

That you Roboute?

One thing with the calculation; although square-cube law does apply, there is a number of reasons for why larger size becomes a selective advantage. Obviously, evolving a larger size reduces the danger of predation and also improves the organisms ability to withstand colder climates (particularly for homeothermic species). But larger animals also have more efficient digestive systems than smaller animals (regardless of the presence of hindguts in certain herbivores) because foodstuffs remain in their intestines for a longer amount of time. So the amount of food intake necessary to support such a large creature, if it could exist, would decrease slightly.

Zentradi are physically significantly stronger and more resilient than humans, even while micloned, particularly their leader clones. While macloned Zentradi are able to survive in a vacuum for a limited amount of time and punch giant robots made out of super-space tech with little personal harm.

Even Micloned, dropping a Zentradi baby on its head is apparently not a problem.

Pic related.

Actually, that's not true. Recent tests have proven that the atmosphere on Earth 65 million years ago was not nearly as different from today as was previously believed.

The reason that Dinosaurs were able to get so insanely huge is because they were avians before avians were birds. The Avian respiratory system is far more efficient than the mammalian one. Birds even today have several air sacks connected to their lungs throughout their body. These air sacks actually serve as secondary pseudo-lungs allowing birds to absorb far more oxygen from each breath than mammals do.

The reason birds got smaller is because, after the KT Extinction event, the surviving species were those who had adapted the ability to fly, and being huge is actually a liability for a flighted bird, however their ultra-efficient respiration system remained and was needed because flight is an extremely physically demanding activity and the extra oxygen is needed.

So what you're saying is baby football is a go?

Are 23 foot tall elves viable?

thinking about a fairly (or somewhat, if too much shit gets in the way) realistic story/setting and want to add a giant race cuz reasons.

Really depends on what you mean by 'viable.'

They wouldn't take up an overly huge amount of resources, depending, and be more workable in other ways than a larger species.

if out and out 'realism' it's incredibly hard to justify giants more than like ten feet tall though.

Details on setting/reasons? For that matter.

What's OP up to with the information? Mostly curious about how/why other people fit this junk into their settings.

Define viable.

There VFs do seem to be based on dragons.

On the topic of VFs they have to be my favorite mecha and I am not even the biggest Macross fan

>Mostly curious about how/why other people fit this junk into their settings.
Cause it's neat

Just don't challenge one to a rock concert.

>Are 23 foot tall elves viable?
Viable? Maybe. The genus Megatherum was a ~20ft tall, nearly 9,000 pound ground sloth that only went extinct ~10,000 years BP. It's possible that it could walk on its hind legs (probably using its tail like a tripod)

>Incredible lazy, low-energy giant elves
This has to be somebody's fetish.

Bitches can't rock. They don't got the finger strength and inner fire required.

Good a reason as any, really.

Thinking more about story ideas. One I'd had but never got around to was a mixed planetary army putting a guide-Alaerin in charge of breaking in new recruits.

Should have been more specific.

Thinking about some elves from snowy/tundra areas

World's like a fantasy setting that just got it's magic source severly damaged/closed so only the most magical critters,these giants included, still have a small access to it (muh free ticked for unrealistic bullshit).

Didn't want to stretch it but if they need some magic juice to keep up with humans then so be it.

>Macross
>inner fire required
>youtube.com/watch?v=eAc9X-F_j9U

Yes, I will find any excuse to post this.

not reading thread but... a race of human sized humans couldn't exist on an earth sized earth without stripping the land

Sounds like it'd totally work then, yeah. A little magic would help explain them, and at like 23ft or so, it wouldn't even have to be *too* much, all things considered.

That or a precursor race with making them for like with the Zentradi and that one guy's construction elves.

Am that one guy, and yeah. They do just need a liiittle push in a more realistic setting to get past the SoD sensors.

>Pisses herself for half the video than has to be saved by a mute who rocks harder than her
Yeahokay.

No one says you can't do gene editing with magic, it's just harder.

Because there aren't any monitors.

Well they could. They'd just have to not be stupid and enact eugenics and population control along with ecofriendly practices. In fact is perfectly reasonable with technology we had 400 years ago and easier today as such.

I'm not...sure what this is in reference too. All I'm saying is you need a half decent level of bullshit in an otherwise realistic setting, whatever your chosen flavor of phlebotinum is.

Other guy's lurking thread got a laugh at this. Wouldn't be surprised if we call Alaerin 'construction elves' in all conversation for a few weeks now.

Oh, thought you were implying you needed a science solution instead of a magic one.

As long as we get transforming fighter planes to fight them

Fair enough! And definitely not. You do whatever fits the setting and sounds good.

>asking logical questions about Macross
Clearly, you aren't LISTENING TO HIS SONG

>youtube.com/watch?v=AYHGDEl-zIc

I'm off to bed, so if guy who was interested in contributing sometimes or guy who recognized me before him, (if not the same user) want to get ahold of me about writing stuff/updates/whatever, contact info was in this doc.

docs.google.com/document/d/1VHyKDxfJPk-8Q8N_3TJoPlQm9dhf0Y7WDcN5Ry4gZ38/edit#

Really, 7 went full on bullshit ... but it doesn't make it less awesome.

good night senpai

thanks for the contact info. Ill brainstorm some stuff.

they could photosynthesize. or they could just subsist on the jizz of all the normal sized dudes like you actually want.

knock it off with them negative waves, man

Well it IS strong in life force. Literally 100million souls worth per go.

Wouldn't it make more sense for most of the normal-sized ladies to also be given penises, so that they could feed the giants too? Such outlandish prospects as photosynthesis are not really needed here, I think.

Ok lets see. Energy consumption would grow cubically to linear size, so it would be (40/5.5)^3~=385 times the chow.
Some ballpark estimations for max population are about 10 billion humies, so dividing that you'd have max pop of about 26 millions of gigaelves on a planet. Adjust up for whatever sci-fi super agriculture you imagine.

>or would you necessarily need megaflora/fauna to support them?
Those won't really help or change anything. Baseline energy input is still solar energy absorbed by plants and incoming energy doesn't change if it's one gigaleaf vs a thousand regular leaves on a tree.
Sure they would be a nice stand-in for cows, but we also do farm comparatively tiny things which we then eat en-masse.

I'd say that megaflora/fauna, while not necessary, would make them feel less unrealistic, "realistically" you probably could with the right infrastructure and small enough population size, but I'd just handwave it with super efficient physiology/agriculture.
Making it realistic should be a secondary concern to how believable it is with everything else in the setting

Then how were giant insects viable?

An user up thread had the right calculation when he scaled by square. GURPS Bio Tech goes into this.

Basically, mass goes up as the cube of linear sir, as you say. However, caloric consumption rises with the square of linear size because however you burn them, those calories all have to be radiated. So you usually have bigger meals but eaten less frequently.

The thing to note with giant races is that they have to be one of these three:

Squat
Super Heavy (dense bones and really tough muscle)
Super Light (light tissues and light-strong bones)

Super light is the hardest to do because it's very hard to made things light weight if they're big because water is a thing.

Squat is the easiest but doesn't work for elves in terms of their proportions.

So to make your elves work they're going to have to be made of very rigid dense materials and will sink into the ground a short way in most places.

At the time when giant insects were a significant part of the biosphere (around the Cambrian, circa 500 million years ago) the atmosphere was much more oxygen-dense, meaning that insects could support larger bodymass through spiracle respiration.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiracle

Flip it, reverse it. Make it so that instead of the Aliums being Giants, make it so that Humans are the small ones. Just blame a our heavier gravity planet and done.

I always smirked at the trope, but really, I don't need the other board any more.
My favorite anime is part of the discussion, lot's of educated people answering questions and contributing, and all still Veeky Forums related with minimal to none shitposting. You guys really make me happy.

> and all still Veeky Forums related with minimal to none shitposting.
You're right, we're not doing this right at all, I'll fix it.

SHERYL IS A SKANK SLUT, RANKA IS BEST GIRL

Now it's a real Macross thread.

good job user, I'm proud of you

I was under the impression that a real physical limit to size is material bone density. The surface area of a bone goes with the square of the size of the creature but the weight (force) on it goes as the cube.

It becomes less of a problem if you have some external force like buoyancy to help, which is why some sea creatures are absolutely enormous.

But it's not a shitpost if it's true.

So its still a shitpost?

There will not be many problems, as long as the elves can eat leaves/bushes/tall grasses. These elves can be compared to the largest herbivorous dinosaurs. There was not any megaflora in the late jurrasic/cretaceous but large herbivorous dinosaurs still managed to support a large population on normal-sized plants. If elven diets are comparable to human diets, e.g bread, carrots, fruit and elves can not eat leave/tall grasses/ bushes megafauna/flora or a very small elven population are required. Essentially, it depends on whether elves can eat things we can not.

I'm assuming you refer to Frakass, since there aren't really that many fetish artists that do giant elves that I can think. Based on the stuff said in this thread, his giant elves are actually surprisingly "realistic" (in the sense that they take into account a lot of the stuff mentioned here; they were still way too huge to function in real life, as are most fantasy giants really). They spend most of their time sleeping to conserve energy, and significant amount of their diet it made up of commonly available plant material. Despite doing vore, the giant elves are mentioned to very rarely attempt eating humans, because humans are just too small to bother wasting energy to catch them.

Considering the same setting is populated by stuff like vore-elves that can eat almost anything, that's really a lot more though than I'd expect put into making the giants' ecology make a semblance of sense.

I wish he'd have done more stuff with the giant elves, rather than just the vore-elves. They were somewhat less ridiculous, and the basic concept of the fire elves was actually pretty neat (they're artificially created species of giants that's friendly to humans, and consider it their duty to hunt dangerous monsters that would threaten humans).

So they're going to need gizzards or something and kids can have fun lighting their 80lb shit piles on fire?

So perhaps the center of a hollow earth?!

ALL IS REVEALED!

I was thinking a secluded valley somewhere, but that could work.

Interesting side question: how does being that large impact your technological development?

Think about it. In order for you to make a fire to keep warm at that size, the fire would have to be HUGE. This makes keeping a constantly going fire at a camp or whatever much more difficult, as you are going to exhaust local burnable fuel sources faster than humans.

How do you build a shelter for something that large? Or, for that matter, tools? It feels like hand tools might still be doable, by would basically use up a whole tree just to make one. Anything like a spear, which requires a single piece longer than any available nearby tree, becomes impossible to make.

And I have trouble imagining them making any kind of boat larger than a single person canoe type deal.

If they already have Zentradi-like infrastructure and technology that is one thing, but it feels like their size would make any kind of 'natural' version of them seriously hampered in regards to trying to develop technology in the first place. Their size make a lot of readily available resources too small to matter at their scale.

It's why I rather liked Forest Giants in D&D.

They solved this (Mind you, in a bit of a cop out way) with 'Druidism is very common in their culture and they use it to help the forest support them/produce things large enough for them'

So a forest inhabited with Forest Giants is a massive, primal forest with giant trees and incredible vibrancy.

Well shit like california redwoods exist and the bigger you are the better you deal with the cold also squared. You might not NEED a fire. Ever.
Only issue would be a supply of california redwood lasting. We actually cut that shit for a century till we realized we had to stop so it might make them think carefully.
Mining is gone wholesale. There's not enough wood to make supportive braces for a singular one at their size and the amount of ore needed would be so minimal it wouldn't be worth it. Beyond that metallurgy would be impossible at that size beyond casting and like you mentioned fuel would be an issue as the fires would have to roar hotter than you could probably achieve and for longer than i care to figure out.
Clothing would also be an issue as well. You could use say mammoth hides but any type of effective stitching would cause the weight of all the other pieces attached to the weakest link to rip through that link.