MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - Thursday Morning Waffle Edition

What's your favorite flavour of waffle?

Which plane would you live on if you had to pick one?

Just about any, I guess. I was just having regular waffles this morning.

If it weren't for the nazi elves that would hunt me down, I'd say Lorwyn just for how idyllic it is. Maybe I could hang out with the Giants and convince them I'm just a tall Kithkin, or convince the Goblins I'm a small Giant.

Failing that, I suppose Ravnica? It seems like an interesting place.

If creatures in a band can be blocked if any of the creatures can be blocked, does that mean that if I band with a creature with pro creatures, they can block, but I can assign all the damage to my pro creatures guy?

Eye of the Storms wording means that any spell with Storm in it gets more and more powerful as spells get added, correct? I know the storm copies don't go in, but every other spells from the storm seems like it is cast.

Yep! Your band gets blocked as a band, so if you had 10 fliers and one regular ground guy, they can block your whole band just by blocking the ground guy.

The advantage to cramming your dudes into an easier-to-block band, however, is that you choose the damage assignment, so you can throw all of that damage onto your pro-creatures attacker to spare everything else.

Yes, because Eye has you create a copy in exile, then CAST the copy. That'll count towards Storm, and it'll also TRIGGER Storm if you put, say, a Grapeshot under the Eye.

So say you had Grapeshot and 3 random doesn't-really-matter spells under the Eye, and then cast Divination. That's one spell cast this turn, and Eye triggers and eats it. Then you copy the three random spells, Divination, and Grapeshot, and cast them in the order of your choosing.

Do it right and you'll have Grapeshot cast last, with a current Storm count of 5, and Storm will trigger, so you get 6 Grapeshots total.

Of course, your opponent might just respond with a Fog or something just so he can crack you back for even more.

How would you advise keeping a werewolf tribal deck in good condition under regular play (and flipping).

This is a sort of etiquette question and I'm sure tournament rules don't have a clause for this. But in EDH, it is fairly common for people to go "Oh, I tutor at your end of turn" in the middle of your main phase to save time.

Now, I understand that sort of thing for fetches and whatnot. But one guy did that with mystical tutor. I had a Learn from the Past and a Overwhelming Denial in hand.

Now, I was in the middle of deciding whether I wanted to cast a creature or just pass turn and hold up mana for instants. But now that he's announced that, I don't know what to do. I ended up just playing the creature, because I was "pretending I didn't know about the mystical tutor".

What do you do? He ended up grabbing the Miracle Time Walk, so fuck me, right?

The easiest would be to sleeve up checklists for your Werewolves, and then put the actual Werewolves in perfect-fit sleeves that you keep in your deckbox. That way you're not constantly pulling them in and out of sleeves to transform them, but they're also not just 'loose'.

The 'prettier' way would be to sleeve up your Werewolves as normal, and then have a second set of all your Werewolves perfect-sleeved in your deckbox and use those to represent the night side. Same benefit of "not taking them out to flip them", but you also get to actually look at your Werewolves when they're in your hand. Of course, that does require you to acquire twice as many Werewolves.

For EDH, it's going to come down to a playgroup decision, basically. I know a lot of people will do the "I'm gonna X at the end of your turn" in the middle of it to save time, which I appreciate because EDH games run long. That does give you information that you wouldn't have had if they'd done it "right" and not tried to save time.

Whether you want to punish them for giving you that premature information, or act like they did it "correctly" and play the way you would had they not just saved time, is up to you. I wouldn't fault you for either, and I think anyone who would is silly.

Well, since (nearly) every creature in this deck is a werewolf I am confident I do not have the tokens nor would they look in any way pretty. I was thinking about double sleeving and just leaving the inner card out once it flips, but double sleeved decks are a pain to shuffle.

If you have a local store, go ask if they have spare checklists (you might have to look online for the OG Innistrad ones), they should have fistfuls they'll beg you to take out of their way.

Double sleeved decks aren't that tough to shuffle, but you still have the problem of constantly taking the card out of the outer sleeve to flip it, which frequently leads to nail-marks on the card, and/or fucking up the top of the outer sleeve. I really recommend that you either get checklists and leave your werewolves in the box until you play them, or just double up on werewolves.

Meh. I guess I'll try the checklists, but how many weeks does it take for sleeves to break and cards be so used they're considered "marked"?

Could take months, could take 5 minutes. If there's markings on your sleeves that in any way render them "unique" and identifiable compared to your others, they're Marked. How severe and noticable that is, depends. I've seen people carefully play with flip cards and go months before needing to resleeve, or just resleeve at the same rate as the rest of the deck. I've seen people split open a sleeve the third time they flipped a card, or had the mouth of the sleeve visibly stretched by the end of an FNM.

A couple dumb questions. If Enduring Idea is cast and there's a dovescape in play, is the Ideal player still locked out for the rest of the game?

Second, does that change if Boseiju was used to cast Ideal?

Only dumb question is the one you never ask, friend.

>Enduring Ideal
They are not. Dovescape eats it, and Epic is part of the spell's actual effect. Since it was countered, none of it happens, including Epic.

>Boseiju
That does change. Dovescape will try to counter the spell and fail, because it's uncounterable, but you'll still get 7 birbs. Then Ideal will resolve, tutor up an Enchantment, and then Epic fires off and locks you out of casting spells for the rest of the game. Every upkeep, you'll copy Ideal and tutor for a thing.

Thanks.

How does Cascading into Spoils of War work? The X isn't really variable the same way most X spells are.

Thanks. I've gone two weeks and none of my sleeves are marked and only one card shows any signs of damage. You said you play EDH correct? What's your opinion on whether high budget=Competetive for EDH decks.

Since there's something else that defines X, you use that instead of going "X is zero". However when it's exiled, its CMC is one so you will cascade into it (unless you were cascading a 1-drop in which case have fun shuffling your deck)

Oh neat. That's some pretty favorable interaction.

So, the first strike damage "step?" doesn't exist unless a creature with first strike or double strike is in combat, right?

It always exists, but if nothing has first strike or double strike the game skips it.

Actually, it's weird. Normally X is set to 0 when using an alternate cost, but Spoils of War is different because the card's text sets the value for X. So you can cascade into it because X is 0 in your library, but when you cast it the X is set by the card itself.

As for Right. Normally there's just one combat damage step. However, if at least one creature has First or Double Strike as the combat damage step begins, only creatures with First or Double Strike assign and deal damage in that step. Then, we move on to a second Combat Damage Step, where only creatures that had neither First nor Double Strike as that first step began (as well as any creatures that currently DO have Double Strike) deal damage.

Incorrect. The only time the game 'skips' steps is when no attackers are declared in Declare Attacks, and the very first Draw Step of the very first player's turn.

Favorite card of ALL TIME?

here, I remembered that Bond of Agony had a different method of setting X (the additional cost) and cascading into it means you insta-win if you have more life than your opponent. Figured the same applied here.

Force of Will and Elesh Norn.

Specifically, the judge foil ones I got from getting an Exemplar recognition from the (former L5, now L3) judge who pulled strings to get me on my first GP and cemented my love of Judging. Those two cards mean the world to me.

Faaaairly sure that doesn't work with Bond of Agony. Bond doesn't set X by the additional cost, you declare the value of X when you're casting it and then sub in that number for X all over the card.

For Bond, it isn't "I'm paying 5 life, so X is 5", it's "X is 5, so I'm paying 5B and 5 life". The X is set by you, not by the text of the card, so X must be 0 if you cascade into it. The reason X isn't auto-0 with Spoils is because the value of X is set by Spoils' text, not by you.

Weird. I remember when cascade first came out a lot of people wondered if it worked or not and (at least at the time) It got ruled that since you must pay the additional cost of X life (otherwise undefined), you can choose the value of X.

It's possible they've since reversed that ruling.

Mind's Desiring into Cascade cards. I know most people don't shuffle between each Mind's Desire, but I should if that happens, right?

As far as I was aware, you are required to shuffle after each mind's desire at all RELs and not doing it was a Very Bad Thing.

>Favorite card is a $500 foil written in a made-up language
K

When I shuffle do I have to let my opponent shuffle and cut between each one? Seems like it would take too long to resolve the 4-5 storm copies.

It's not the pricetag. It's the memories associated with them. I remember when I got my L1 cert, the L2 that tested me gave me a set of the judge full-art basics to celebrate - turns out he'd been sent two sets and was told to keep them.

I don't think I'll ever appreciate a card more than those.

To be fair, "when cascade first came out" was 7 years ago. I also found an [O]fficial post 'clarifying' that X must be 0 for Cascading into Bond of Agony, so I dunno if that was a reversal, or people were just unsure until then.

Point is, whatever it might have been 7 years ago, right now X is 0 in that instance. Spoils of War is the only exception.

You should, because the position of some cards is known (they're on the bottom-ish)

You are mistaken. The shuffle clause is there so you can't just tutor something to the top and free-cast it. If the contents of your library remain random (as in, nobody knows the position of any cards) between copies, I would PREFER you not shuffle because it's not needed.

But for Cascade, yeah, shuffle.

It'd be my favorite if it was a Xiahou Dun the One-Eyed or a Karador. It isn't the card or the price tag, it's that a high level judge pointed at me with his one Exemplar recommendation in that Alpha wave and said "you are a cool guy".

>(you might have to look online for the OG Innistrad ones)
Note that these are worth somewhere in the region of $3-4. Not all stores know this, though.

Is discarding Circling Vultures a special action? Can it be responded to?

Sphinx of Jwar Isle's reminder text is a bit weird, right? The card essentially makes that card a zone like a hand or graveyard, but the reminder text makes it seem like a thing you have to decide to do and announce.

And Aven Windreader, do you flip the card back down? You should, right, but it usually doesn't matter. It is like a reveal from a tutor, correct?

Y'know, I'm not sure. I'll have to check- it doesn't seem to be covered as one of the 7 kinds of special actions, but it's very obviously not an activated or triggered ability, so it shouldn't use the stack and can't be responded to. I'll look into it.

The reminder text is basically to let you know it's not a "one time" thing, or an activated ability- it's just a thing that's true (so you could look at it while you're resolving spells, for example). You don't need to announce that you're doing it, but it's gonna be fairly obvious that you are, and it couldn't hurt to just say "Checking top card via Sphinx" so your opponent understands.

The card isn't ever "face up". They just show you what it is for a reasonable amount of time, and then can put it right back, since there's no duration specified. Your opponent might elect to just flip the top card over and leave it there, the same way some people will leave "revealed form hand" cards face-up on the table for ease of memory.

Circling vultures is actually a static ability, not an activated one! It can't be responded to.

It's there to remind you that you can peek at that card whenever, not just when you have priority or when it's your turn. You can look at the top card whenever you could look at, say, your hand.

for Aven Windreader, I believe it's not required to flip it back face down (unless something changes the order of their deck, at which point it needs to be the same as all the other cards)

I have a sludge strider pauper edh deck.

If sludge strider is out during combat and I block a creature with a mana-producing myr, can I float the myr's mana during the combat damage step and use it towards sludge strider's triggered ability when the myr leaves play?

Quick question. Does a creature without trample deal its entire combat damage to a creature, or just equal to its toughness? I know creatures with trample have a spill over effect but I wanted to be sure. Making an extort deck with this sucker as a hard wall against big creatures (with enchantments to give reach and more toughness/protection from colored spells).

Nope. You can block with your mana myr and tap it for mana in the declare blockers step, but that mana will disappear by the time you get to the combat damage step (when the myr actually dies). And since damage doesn't use the stack anymore, you can't float the mana in the combat damage step, because the myr will be dead before you can tap it for mana.

Thanks guys. It is just weird that they used the "any time" text that morph has, when Morph can't be used in the middle of spell resolution for example.

I might've asked this before, but Yixlid Jailer removes all abilities from cards in graveyard, including CDA ones, right? So, what happens if I Dread Defiler away my Lhurgoyf if the Jailer is in play? Cragganwick Cremator it? Dead Reckoning it?

No, because the first thing that happens in the combat damage step is combat damage, followed by an SBA check. The myr is dead before you can activate its ability. The last time you'd get to do that is in the declare blockers step, and the mana would empty before you can use it.

If a creature without trample is blocked, it assigns combat damage to the blocking creature equal to its power.

>protection from colored spells).
Protection from non-creature spells ala hexproof*

>It is just weird that they used the "any time"
Reminder text isn't actually rules text. It just exists to give some approximation of how the ability works. Sometimes it's pretty good, sometimes it's "your creatures can help you cast this spell".

Is there any further exception to this? Say if there is a triggered ability during first strike combat damage, similar to Drana, Liberator of Malakir, I would be able to tap the myr in response to her trigger, but not freely during the combat damage step, correct?

After conferring with a mentor, Circling Vultures' discard ability is indeed a special action. You can use it whenever you have priority, it doesn't use the stack, and it cannot be responded to.

You can float the mana, but not use it. The mana will leave your pool when you go to the combat damage step, and the trigger won't fire until you're in that step.

Whole damage. It doesn't get to the toughness and stop. If you block a 20/20 vanilla with your Souls, it takes 20 damage, and Souls will bleed the attacking player for 20 and gain you 20.

Well, remember that reminder text has no rules meaning.

>Jailer
CDAs are Characteristic Defining Abilities. They are abilities, and are shut down by Jailer.

Damage happens, then SBAs (which is what kills your creature), then triggers go on the stack, then priority. There is no way for you to tap your Myr for mana during the step in which combat damage kills it.

You could tap the myr for mana after combat damage in the first strike combat damage step, assuming it's still alive. The mana still won't float to the regular combat damage step. There wouldn't need to be a trigger during that step for you to get priority, though.

>CDAs are Characteristic Defining Abilities. They are abilities, and are shut down by Jailer.
Not the person who originally asked, but Goyf's CDA gets turned off because it's in layer seven, and Yix is in layer six, right? Does this make Goyf a 0/1 or a 0/0?

So, a Lhurgoyf card with no abilities is a card with 0 power and 1 toughness in all those cases?

Or is Dread Defiler and Dead Reckoning checking power after it has left the yard already? Cragganwick checks power in yard, not when discarded, right?

Whoops, missed the second half of the question.

Jailer would have Reckoning deal 0 damage, and Dread Defiler drain 0 life, because they look at the card they messed with as it existed in the graveyard, where it had 0 power. Cremator looks at the card it discarded, as it existed in the hand- so Lhurgoyf would still have a nonzero power there. It'd deal damage equal to the number of creature cards in all graveyards BEFORE you discarded Lhurgoyf, so not counting itself.

0/1.

The Lhurgoyf is a 0/1 with no abilities in the graveyard, which is what the Defiler and Reckoning are looking at- they need to know about the card they fucked with, and that card was in the graveyard, so they use Last Known Information because the card isn't there anymore.

Cremator is the same, but backwards- it needs to know information about a card CURRENTLY in the graveyard, but that WAS in the hand, so it uses the information about it as it existed in the hand, where Jailer wasn't fucking with it yet.

Thanks. That all makes sense to me.

Hey, does Power Sink tap a Exotic Orchard if your opponents control no lands?

Yeah, Orchard still has a mana ability. Power Sink doesn't care that the ability won't add mana, just that it's there.

A mana ability is an activated ability which

1) Could add mana to a mana pool as it resolves
2) Does not target
3) Is not a loyalty ability

Exotic Orchard's ability meets those criteria, and is thus a mana ability.

>2) Does not target
The good ol' "DRS can't pay for Elephant Grass, sorry".

Makes sense. Now, in the case of Drain Power, there is no way to make the target activate Exotic Orchard, Meteor Crater, Rhystic Cave, Paliano in the case that Paliano wasn't drafted, his opponents have no lands and he controls only colorless permanents, right?

And Rhystic Cave because it would be in the middle of a spell resolving.

Well, they can't activate Rhystic Cave because of the timing restriction. But they are forced to activate a mana ability of the other lands - those mana abilities still exist, even if they won't produce mana when they resolve.

All of those cards have mana abilities.

Whether or not the ability WILL add mana to your mana pool at this moment is not a criteria. The criteria is "could add mana to a mana pool", and all of those COULD.

605.2. A mana ability remains a mana ability even if the game state doesn't allow it to produce mana.

So, for Drain Power, they would be forced to activated Orchard/Crater/Paliano, you just wouldn't get mana out of it.

Oh, so you can activate them despite not having any valid colors to choose?

I guess I don't know why I thought otherwise.

So, if I have a Paliano in my EDH deck and we didn't draft it, I could still tap it for black if I have Contamination on the field? Or get green if I have a Wild Growth on it?

The only cost for those lands is "tap". The fact that the ability won't do diddly-shit doesn't matter, you can still activate them.

But if I tap a Paliano for fuck all, am I still considered to have been tapping it for mana because I am activating a mana ability? Or am I activating a mana ability, but still not technically tapping it for mana?

There is this pile of cards that cares:

magiccards.info/query?q=o:"tapped for mana"&v=card&s=cname

106.11. To “tap a permanent for mana” is to activate a mana ability of that permanent that includes the {T} symbol in its activation cost. See rule 605, “Mana Abilities.

Does Paliano have a mana ability even if you didn't draft it? Yes. Can you activate that mana ability even if it will do nothing? Yes. Does activating that mana ability involve the tap symbol as a cost? Yes.

Thus, tapping Paliano to activate its worthless mana ability is "tapping it for mana", and will interact with all those things.

Cool. Thanks!

Why is Isochron Scepter's ability worded the way it is? It mentions both copying something and someone casting a copy.
Is it because it doesn't copy a spell on the stack , like fork does, but rather create something like a token of the imprinted card in exile, which you then put on the stack by casting it without paying mana? It's pretty complicated and abstract, let me tell you that much.
By the way, have you gotten to draft EMA yet? It's so good.

Do two replacement effects like Aegis of Honor and Pyromancer's Swath counteract each other like Abundance and Tomorrow?

What's the funniest and/or most interesting themed decks you've seen, gA?

No. And in this case, the order that they apply doesn't matter - the spell will deal damage + 2 to its controller.

You create a copy of the exiled card, in exile, and then you cast the copy. You're right that it's different from fork: the copy is cast, and the only way for that to happen is to create the copy somewhere that isn't the stack, and then cast it.

In most cases, that's not any different from just copying the card (like Epic has you do), but there ARE times when it is (it'll trigger Counterbalance and other similar things, it gives you the option to pay additional costs like Kicker, etc)

I have not, unfortunately, and I doubt I'll get to anytime soon.

When two or more prevention/replacement effects are trying to apply to the same event, the controller of the affected object (or the affected player, if there's not an OBJECT being affected) chooses the order to place them in.

So, let's say you've activated Aegis of Honor, and your opponent has a Swath, and Bolts you. If you apply Swath first, it'll do 3+2 damage... but then the Aegis still wants to apply, so it domes the controller instead. If you apply Aegis first, it'll redirect the Swath to your opponent, and then Swath will still apply, so they end up taking 5 anyway.

Sometimes the order in which you apply them changes things; that's why Abundance and Tomorrow "cancel". Once you've applied Abundance, there's no longer a "draw a card" event for Tomorrow to replace, so the replacement can't apply, and ditto in reverse. Other times applying one before the other STOPS the other, but not in reverse, like with a "prevent all damage a source would deal to you this turn" and Furnace of Rath. It's the same end result, but if you apply Furnace first you double the damage and then prevent it, whereas if you apply the prevention first you just prevent the 'normal' amount. Savvy?

Mono-green control in EDH.

>Mono-green control in EDH.
How the fuck?

Right?! He used Dosan the Falling Leaf as Commander, and then a bunch of weird-ass cards to fuck with everyone.

Beast Within, Chain of Acid, Bramblecrush, Rootgrapple, stuff like that for spot removal; Night Soul and Scooze to shut down reanimation, shit was crazy.

Thanks. Makes sense.

I'll have to try that sometime.

Wait, sorry, does this mean that if I wanted to have my Ancient Silverback in exile despite it having a regeneration shield from earlier and someone Hellfire's it, I could apply the exile replacement before the regen one?

an extension from yesterday:

If I cast Lightning Bolt at my opponent and he casts Redirect to throw it back at me, can I hide behind Jace?

Nope. Jace isn't the target ( through you), you are.

actually I bothered to check the rules:
>306.7. If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead.

so that doesn't work since I'm not an opponent

shame

Nope. You can only ever redirect noncombat damage that a source you control would deal to an OPPONENT. And no matter how badly someone plays, they are never their own opponent.

You say that, but you've never seen me play Lords after the combat phase

twice i the same match

Still not your own opponent!

If my plays are never bad enough to make me my own opponent, nobody's will be.

Whoops, missed you, sorry.

No. Those aren't trying to replace the same event. Regeneration is wanting to replace the actual destruction event, whereas Demonfire (assuming that's what you meant) wants to apply to the actual "is leaving the field for the graveyard" bit that happens immediately after.

Thanks! Makes sense.

Sure.

It sparked a bit of a debate among some Judge friends of mine, so I'll let you know how it ends.

Would you mind posting the English version of that image for next thread?

It's just Spell Snip.

Oh hey, you're alive. I haven't seen you in a while.

Just out of curiosity, do copies of a spell with Storm trigger Young Pyromancer's ability or no?

If I cast act of treason on my own zada hedron grinder, it copies it for each creature I control, does that mean I can gain control of a number of target creatures equal to the number of copies of act of treason or will only target my creaturen being a useless spell?

Storm copies spells ON THE STACK, so they are not cast

if they were, they would also trigger Storm, so....

the second

>copy that spell for each other creature you control that the spell could target. Each copy targets a different one of those creatures.

Debate ended with "You do not have the option to exile", so answer was correct.

Yeah, I got pretty busy for a while, but I've been trying to do the threads more often again.

The copies are created on the stack and are not cast (if they were cast, a Storm spell with a storm count of 1 would just end the game in a draw), so they don't trigger Pyromancer.

It'll give them haste!

Thanks, guess I'll stick to expedite

Thanks for the follow up!

Domo arigato.