So lemme get this straight... this bitch betrays Sorin, destroys his home plane, kills his whole family...

So lemme get this straight... this bitch betrays Sorin, destroys his home plane, kills his whole family, and forces him to kill his own daughter... and now Wizards wants us to take HER side?

Fuck MtG lore so hard.

Well I mean whoever can cast blue spells has plot armor, right?

Nahiri a best
stay mad Innifags.

I mean, from her perspective he betrayed her first by not upholding his part of the deal, which he factually did not hold up, and just told her to fuck off because he doesn't have to look out for Eldrazi anymore, then beats her up with his daughter and locks her away for a millennium.

Now she wakes up, lost almost all her powers, has no idea that the Mending ever happened, thinks Sorin took her powers and watched idly while the Eldrazi obliterated her plane and everything she loved.

I'm not saying that she's not still a bitch for overreacting like that, but her actions are understandable from her point of few.

sorin a shit tho

...

Everything Sorin did was for the Multiverse's own well-being. A fellow oldwalker, and especially a white oldwalker, should be able to understand that.

But Sorin is a man and Nahiri a woman, so obviously he's the one in the wrong here, amirite?

>Its understandable that she wants to commit genocide because of a man
You understanded hitler too?

>and now Wizards wants us to take HER side?

You weren't before?
I thought there were already two very good reasons to side with her.

>"Women can't be wrong!" - wotc

I think we all know for a fact it's Ugin's fault ultimately for being a fucking hippy dippy conservationist trying to perserve the prescious species of eldritch abominations.

I mean, is this how it's suppose to work ugin? Is this how nature is suppose to work on the planes? I'd be okay if they were eating dead planes they didn't make dead themselves but this is straight up Cthulhu shit

She tried to fucking murder an entire plane. Bitch is a bit of an understatement.

Except if she had gone to the Eye of Ugin or tried to fight and save her plane AT ALL, she would have figured out Sorin had been trying to help.

Evidentally, she buggered off right when the Eldrazi were set lose to go ruin Sorin's life. She didn't try and find Sorin. She didn't try and stop the Eldrazi again without him. She didn't try and find Ugin. She let her plane die because Sorin didn't pick up the phone last time she called.

She probably would have understood if she hadn't been in stasis for centuries and had gotten any explanation at all as to what Sorin did in the meantime that hinders him from leaving the plane due to a lack of energy.

He was acting like an edgy "2cool4school" teen that was too cocky to explain anything to a person that couldn't possibly know what the fuck was going on

And her first reaction isn't to ask Sorin "dude, what the fuck" or literally anything rational. Nope, she just goes straight to MURDERDEATHKILL mode.

But she did ask him why the fuck he left her hanging to which he never gave any reasonable ecxplanation.

She's a White villain OP.

It's amazing how many problems involving Oldwalkers could be solved if they talked instead of lashing out like petulant children with god powers. Not to mention Nahiri totally fucking up the plane is just dumb spiteful. I mean if she had figured out a way to keep Sorin off of Innistrad permanently instead that would have fucked with Sorin's ego much much harder.

Ugin wanted to preserve them in case it turns out they serve some unknown but vital purpose in the multiverse. He was okay with locking them up indefinitely and therefore removing them from the ecosystem just as thoroughly as if they went extinct - except locking them up can be undone if necessary, whereas actually wiping them out can't be undone. He didn't just decide to preserve them because muh nature.

Helvault and Avacyn act as a multiversal signal faraday cage. This explains it well enough. Sorin is also at the very least ten thousand years old; all are children to him.

>Betrays Sorin
All Sorin had to do was either explain that he just used up half of his energy to make an angel and giant ass block of silver and needed to rest or go to Zendikar for 5 minutes to check on the status of the Hedrons.
But no he had to be a condescending ass.
Literally all of this fuckery with the Eldrazi could have been avoided had Sorin done that. Elf Hitler wouldn't have awoken the Eye because Nahiri wasn't imprisoned in the Halvault.

>It's amazing how many problems involving characters in most works of fiction could be solved if they talked

Fixed that for you. Hey, speaking of Oldwalkers, does Nahiri even know the mending happened? Has she noticed that she and her fellow walkers aren't gods anymore? Maybe Nahiri thinks Sorin can undo all this with a weekend's work. To a god, undoing the wholesale slaughter of a whole fucking plane is as much of a pain in the ass as cleaning up a house that's been TP'd. I'd love it if the story ends with Nahiri going, "Ha ha, I really got you good! Okay we're even now. Wanna go get lunch?" and Sorin Ugin and the gatewatch all just stare at her dumbfounded.

>Break your promise to someone
>Treat them like shit
>Shove them in prison for like five thousand years
>They're a bitch because they're mad when they got out

Veeky Forums has some unresolved mommy issues don't they

Get a fucking grip. All she's doing is bringing an Eldrazi to Innistrad. Sorin and Ugin brought three to Zendikar. Sorin brought it on himself. When Ugin asked where Nahiri was Sorin, Mr. Edgelord himself, felt fucking guilt.

She has no idea about the mending since she was in the vault when it happened and I doubt anyone explained it to her.

Going by the story chapter it sounds like she thinks that the Helvault took her powers.

Unless she's mentally retarded, wouldn't she have noticed her own power decrease.

>All she's doing is bringing an incomprehensible Eldritch horror to his home plane specifically to fuck it up.
>Sorin and Ugin brought three to be sealed on her home plane, which she agreed to.
>Also she corrupted the angels, killed his family, and made him kill his own daughterfu.
FTFY

He felt guilt because they had a bit of an argument and haven't spoken in ages because of it.

He didn't intentionally break his promise. He was a dick about it.

She was the one who went full psycho on the last person she had an argument with because she jumped to conclusions.

Sorin is the one who tracked down Ugin on Tarkir to help with the Eldrazi this time around. Nissa (though she caused all of this) at least stuck around on her homeplane to try and fight the Eldrazi.

Where was Nahiri during all of this? Still frozen? Or was she already busy trying to burn down Innistrad?

>claiming Nahiri isn't justified in destroying everything Sorin holds dear before killing him like the cuck he is

Where was Nahiri when Zendikar died?

Probably blamed sorin for that too

She's justified in fucking over Sorin... but not the people of Innistrad.

And of course, the logical thing to do when you've experienced a sudden power drain and your home plane is under attack is to...

Go to the home plane of the person you think is responsible and start knocking stuff over? How does that solve anything?

This is like waking up to see your house starting to catch fire and that your fire extinguisher has been stolen, and driving over to the friend you had a recent argument with and burning his house down because you think he did it.

...

>I'd love it if the story ends with Nahiri going, "Ha ha, I really got you good! Okay we're even now. Wanna go get lunch?" and Sorin Ugin and the gatewatch all just stare at her dumbfounded.

wotc please

>implying the people of Innistrad matter
Everyone knows they're just fodder for vampires, necromancers, and demons.

I'm questioning how the timeline works out here. She busts out of the Helvault, goes to Zendikar, and then does nothing but check that the Eldrazi have been freed before going back to ruin everything?

How did she not come across anyone who could tell her what happened?

From what I understand after reading the UR story, Nahiri got out of the Helvault in between Zendikar 1 and 2. She goes home only to find everything a smoking ruin and the titans just kind of chilling and taking their time in chowing down on the plane. She figures without her powers she can't stop them and runs back to Innistrad to plot her revenge long before the Jacetice league shows up to save the day.

>Why didn't she go find Sorin?
How does anyone find a specific planeswalker in the whole of the multiverse. I'd imagine unless you know where they like to hang out and wait around for them, you'd never find them. Going around plane-to-plane asking people if they've seen some pale dude with a sword and a bad attitude would be pointless.

>Sorin's fault that he didn't do what he needed to
>Sorin's fault that the situation escalated with Nahiri
>Sorin's fault that he left Nahiri in oblivion for ages
>Sorin's fault that Nissa was allowed to fuck up
>Sorin's fault that the situation escalated with Avacyn
>Sorin's fault that he had 'no other choice'
>All fucking Sorin's fault

Fuck off vampire apologist.

>Except if she had gone to the Eye of Ugin or tried to fight and save her plane AT ALL
Blame Ugin's disinformation strategy for that. She doesn't think the eldrazi can be fought against in any degree.

Well, she was locked in his closet for a really long time and then her house was on fire when she got home.

I believe she showed up in the gap between the Eldrazi breaking free and when the Jacetice League showed up. To her Zendikar was already dead and beyond saving. And for good reason. The Titans were unkillable up until that retarded retcon that Elf Hitler could take that away.

>She busts out of the Helvault, goes to Zendikar, and then does nothing but check that the Eldrazi have been freed before going back to ruin everything?
>How did she not come across anyone who could tell her what happened?
Only people she meets are a kor warband who tell her that "eldrazi are free, shit's fucked, we lost a continent". She goes to the continent and sees what Ulamog leaves behind, and then rages against Sorin.

I dunno. Just because you have good reasons or a tragic backstory doesn't make you right.

She wanted sorin's help with the eldrazi, but he was to busy idiot-proofing Innistrad, and Ugin was busy being dead(maybe).

Sorin reacting with "Oh... huh. Right sorry forgot about that" with regards to what was a "big deal" to her seemed pretty rude.

Frankly everyone was an idiot in that story.

Sorin was too busy not explaining anything and being aloof, and Nahiri was too busy being angry and heartbroken.

Her being locked away in a timeless void pretty much meant she didn't get a chance to simmer down.

>The Titans were unkillable up until that retarded retcon that Elf Hitler could take that away.
It's not something unique to Nissa.
Ugin could've made them mortal the first time around. The original three could have dragged them in and slain them with little fuss overall, but Ugin's caution tells him that the Eldrazi must exist for a reason, and that the consequences of their death could be far worse than their life.

>Everything Sorin did was for the Multiverse's own well-being. A fellow oldwalker, and especially a white oldwalker, should be able to understand that.
>lemme throw up this caller ID so I block all phone calls from bothering Innistrad
>Woops I forgot to make an exception for Nahiri
>Sorry Nahiri I couldn't focus on the multiverse and it's threats I had to focus on Innistrad so I can keep the human population okay to feed on, I'll deal with it later because it's nap time for me now.
That dude's priorities are Innistrad first, everyone else later, man.

>How does anyone find a specific planeswalker in the whole of the multiverse?

I don't know. Sorin managed to find Ugin in the bumfuck-nowhere that is Tarkir. Why didn't Nahiri do that?

Oh right, she was busy trying to destroy Innistrad instead of getting her powers back, rallying the populace to help her fix the Hedron network, or looking for Ugin.

But she knows they can be trapped, and knows how to do it.

She didn't even try!

>But she knows they can be trapped, and knows how to do it.
bitch that shit took 40 years of oldwalker supermagic
Ob Nixilis estimates the plane has about 6 months left before it's all gone at this rate

If Sorin asked you to risk your homeworld to house 3 eldritch horrors from the blind eternities and you accepted the thankless task for the greater good, and you sat inside the ground for literal thousands of years watching to make sure they didn't break out to consume the multiverse, and upon asking him for help he didn't respond, and then when you asked him what the fuck happened he basically said "fuck you, you're not important" and THEN he imprisoned you inside the helvault for another thousand years, causing the destruction of said homeworld... you bet your roody poo candy ass you'd want to do a little more than just kill him. Killing Innistrad and Avacyn still doesn't put Sorin and Nahiri on even terms.

>bitch that shit took 40 years of oldwalker supermagic

To build the Hedrons. The Gatewatch managed to set it up with nothing but rope and a buttload of mana, and they barely know what they're doing.

No, she needed Ugin's magic to make the Hedron traps to work. Ugin was in limbo or whatever at this time and it took fucking years for the hedron plan to even come into fruition because of the amount of hedrons they had to make.

Nahiri's way of dealing with them was sort of lost because there's a lot of missing parts and it would have taken time. Jace and Co. even said fuck Ugin and just went in for the kill and Nahiri was under the idea that killing them was a really bad idea because Ugin said so.

>Maybe Nahiri thinks Sorin can undo all this with a weekend's work.

Unlikely since the first plain the Eldrazi wrecked was dissolved and left completely lifeless, and their wasn't any hint of it being fixed.

is there any summary of the magic lore? The one in wizards website is xbox huge.

They also knew Ulamog's position and bearing, had the full support of the remaining forces of Zendikar, had Ugin and Jace's intellect guiding their battle plan, and even then it still barely worked for 20 seconds.
Nahiri had no knowledge whatsoever of the current circumstances except the Eldrazi are free and Bala Ged is utterly destroyed.

Is it just me or is new Magic lore one big retardation conga line

She fixed it the first time without Ugin present. Even if she needed Ugin, that's a good reason to go find Ugin. Sorin found Ugin, so it can't be that hard. The Hedrons are already made, so that part of the process is shortened.

Jace and friends were also trying to trap them instead of kill them at first. They had a ring of hedrons up in a matter of days. DAYS.

And you know why they had all that? Because they were actually trying to solve the problem instead of throwing up their hands and deciding to plan vengeance.

They had that army because they raised the army. They had Ugin because Sorin found him and Jace sought him out. It didn't work because Ob fucked them over.

She didn't even try.

>"There must always be a Lich Kin- err, Eldrazi!"

the fact that people actually defend ugin is disgusting

Is losing Innistrad really that big of a deal? I mean, it's a pretty fucking awful place to begin with. If you aren't getting murdered by vampires or werewolves, it's giant bugs, or your neighbor because they are secretly a tooth collector and trying to reanimate their fucking cat.

>Because they were actually trying to solve the problem
And they had years to rally and prepare for it. It seems you didn't hear me, but Nahiri dropped into the situation without any knowledge whatsoever. She didn't know there were other planeswalkers, she didn't know how large the resistance forces were, and she didn't have any reason whatsoever to believe the Eldrazi could be fought against in any degree without 40 years of prep work.

>They had that army because they raised the army
Bullshit. Tazri and the forces of Zendikar raised themselves as a matter of survival. Gideon took to leading them but he did not recruit them.

You must be new to just figure this out

>And they had years to rally and prepare for it.

Years? Jace found out a few weeks beforehand. Gideon had maybe been working on it a few months.

>Nahiri dropped into the situation without any knowledge whatsoever

And she didn't try and rectify that lack of knowledge. She didn't try and see if there were other planeswalkers present. She didn't try to see if there were resistence forces.

She should also know full well if that's possible without 40 years of prep, considering she probably spent most of those 40 years crafting each and every Hedron herself.

But no, she left once she heard 'Eldrazi free'

I'm not sure even Wizards knows what's supposed to be going on anymore. Elspeth planeswalked away from New Phyrexia and then must have developed retrograde amnesia because she immediately starts fucking around with the Xenagos shit and never bothers to go tell Jace and friends about that kind of important threat from Mirrodin. And remember when Nicol Bolas was supposed to be the principal antagonist of this game? He hasn't done shit in the story for 7 years now.

I don't think they actually escaped the first time, just rattled the bars a bit.

>She didn't even try.
I can understand that. After getting locked in Sorin's basement for an unknown number of years, she gets out to find her house is burning down, probably due to those three arsonists Sorin convinced her to barricade in her closet. "But the water might have still been running! She should have at least tried to put out the fire!" Is there any point if there's nothing left that isn't scorched?

>Years? Jace found out a few weeks beforehand. Gideon had maybe been working on it a few months.
The time between Rise of the Eldrazi and Battle for Zendikar is 3-4 years.

>And she didn't try and rectify that lack of knowledge. She didn't try and see if there were other planeswalkers present. She didn't try to see if there were resistence forces.
Abso-fucking-lutely nothing implies she should or could. You're demanding that she expect the unexpectable.

>She should also know full well if that's possible without 40 years of prep, considering she probably spent most of those 40 years crafting each and every Hedron herself.
As far as Ugin told her the entire planetary hedron network was necessary to contain the Eldrazi. And she could tell at a single glance that it was in utter disarray.

Why do you think Wizards wants you to take her side? I think they just want you to understand that her motivations aren't just lolevil. She's suffered a terrible loss that was objectively Sorin's fault, on several levels, and has legitimate reasons to hate him. She has fantastic justification to feel what she does. But if you think that's all she needs to justify her actual behavior, then you're as mad as the most stereotypical SJW.

Can someone just tell me where it's even implied we're supposed to sympathize with Nahiri, or that she's some how the hero? You idiots do know you can show the logic behind the villain's actions without implying they're reasonable right? I swear to Christ you people will take any opportunity to work yourself up over "muh womyn are his conspiracies"

The thing is people liked the setting of the plane
Instead of a bunch of mongol clans, god of war mythology, they had a bloodborne-esque, victorian horrror feeling, and are upset it's going to be full of tentacles now, specially due to the fact that almost everyone is done with the ELDRAZI MENACE THAT ONLY THE SUPERFRIENDS CAN DEAL WITH

>EARTH, WATER, FIRE, JUSTICE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAND LOVE
>PEWWWWWW ulamog and kozi are dead

People seem to be forgetting or not understanding that Nahari herself is on the precipice of madness. She was in absolute darkness for some 5000 years experiencing free fall. The only thing that kept her 100% devolving into a gibbering mess was her lavish mental palace of Zendikar. It becomes her mental crutch, the sole focus of her entire being, and locus of her every thought for 5000 years. Then she escapes, and immediately returns to Zendikar, only to find it fucked up beyond repair, leading her mind to nearly shatter from grief, which ends up with her seizing upon the first emotion she feels to keep back her absolute despair: rage.

>bloodborne-esque
But original innistrad wasn't that at all
>and are upset it's going to be full of tentacles now
But then that makes the current set even more bloodborne than the original innistrad block

>Bloodborne-esque
>Being mad it's full of tentacles

>But original innistrad wasn't that at all
Of course it was, the whole storyline was about nigger garruk and the cursed plane. Watch the trailers for both innistrad and dark ascenssion. When bloodborne came out everyone was talking about dark souls innistrad

>More Eldrazi

I still don't see the logic. She saw one continent that had been ruined, and one Eldrazi still present.

Remember, she's a White walker. It's the color of Order, Strategy, Defense, Cooperation, and Self-Sacrifice. She saw the world in flames, but rather than sticking to her morals, finding her center, and trying to get help or try and defend her people, she threw herself entirely into anger at someone else, and decided to throw his entire world into disorder, with utter disdain for everyone present.

If there's still White in that White/Red combo, it'd be nice if she could show it.

She thought the titans were unbeatable. Too bad she didn't know of THE JACESTICE LEAGUE™

Yes, she is a woman.

>She thought the titans were unbeatable

So did the rest of the plane. They just didn't have the option of running like cowards.

And white can be righteous and vengeful as well. I don't think an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is out of white's color characterization. Nahiri probably feels this is just as she thinks Sorin is the reason Zendikar got fucked bad. Like someone dodging the draft or something.

The only reason she was able to keep sane through the thousands of years of falling into infinite darkness of the Helvault was by imagining "Zendikar as I know it", a pristine and beautiful untamed land.
The second thing she sees after returning home is a desolate continent of silent dust.
You think she could remain pure white after that?

Okay, and what moral hangups are there for killing residents of another plane?

>inb4 life is "sacred"

Is this one of those times mtg lore general states a bunch of stuff they assume to be true as fact without adding any such clauses to the post?

Because they do that a lot.

example two. Akroma is all white and her fucking name has wrath in it.

People keep on thinking white is this benevolent color about being heroic and benevolent and shit but seem to leave out the part of justice and righteousness even when it's in the wrong. Elesh Norn is white. Elesh fucking Norn is the color of what people are complaining are lacking in Nahiri and she's the fucking current leader of one of the most dangerous antagonists in this game's lore.

>It's the color of Order, Strategy, Defense, Cooperation
She seems to be employing plenty of that with Innistrad's demise. The cryptoliths didn't raise themselves, and she recruited Gisa to her service. It clearly took some time to create an Emrakul summoning ritual.

Perhaps not, but vengeance is better when you're avenging the dead, not the dying.

There's also a large difference between killing Sorin for his crimes, and destroying a plane full of innocents because someone they've never met happens to like the neighborhood. It could potentially expand to Avacyn and the Vampires as well, but scrubbing Sorin from the plane would have been plenty.

She clearly didn't remain pure White, and it would have been unreasonable to expect her to. However, all that means is she's gone mad with rage and anger. I'm sure she feels justified, but that doesn't mean she is.

what do people matter to the 10,000 year old godlings?

Nahiri is so old and so beyond the scope of carring about mortals, she has no way to care about them anymore.

you telling me, how a beyond ancient being such as her should "feel" about genocide is laughable.

>Perhaps not, but vengeance is better when you're avenging the dead, not the dying.
There's a whole damn dead continent.
Not an island, not a city, not a nation, a fucking continent.
You can't un-annihilate a continent.

Right, and I'm sure she's much more attached to that landscape she's been sleeping in for thousands of years.

All this isn't painting her as any more sympathetic you know.

It was 3-4 years? If I'm following sorin correctly, he was there when elf Hitler released them. Then he immediately went home to see what was wrong there. After breaking his big vault, he then went to find ugin. Finding him (after a time retrofitting), he sends him to zendikar. BfZ happens, then this set. To me that seems like a year at most? I'm a bit shaky on that.

Then why the fuck should she care about the people of Zedikar?

Works both ways mate, and I'm pretty sure oldwalkers were not universally ancient as you describe. The Bitch was described as the youngest of the three fuckups.

Moreover why should age preclude caring?

>Perhaps not, but vengeance is better when you're avenging the dead, not the dying.
But plenty have died. A whole continent is fucking gone. People kept dying and Zendikar is barely something people can call hospitable right now. I am not trying to say Nahiri is in the right but it is in her nature as someone who identifies as the color of white to be vengeful and avenge those who died. Gideon is the same when it comes to avenging soldiers who died but the difference between Gideon and Nahiri is who they see as enemies that should be smitten. Gideon sees that the Eldrazi need to be stopped because they keep killing everyone and he's dumb enough to try tanking them and Nahiri feels that it's Sorin's fault for forcefully keeping her away from doing her damn job and now she sees her home in fucking ruins.

'm sure Nahiri will be happy to stop the destruction on Innistrad after one continent then? After all, an eye for an eye and all that.

Maybe she'll destroy one and then trap Sorin in a box for 1000 years. That'd be karmic.

I never said she was sympathetic, you are confusing me with someone else.

this is simply what she believes is the only "right" left to her, the right to revenge, nothing in her mind can bring back Zendikar, she gave up.

a thousand years in the Iso-Chamber and the horrible mind break of seeing your 5k years of life work shit down the drain because someone ruined your life that you trusted would break almost anyone.

expecting a person who went through that to give a SHIT about people on some random plane is asking way too much, she is simply beyond empathy now.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Presumably, the same moral hangups that stop you from killing people from your own plane? All I'm saying is that she's got good reasons for her feels, but her feels aren't a good reason for what she's doing.

I guess it might have taken longer to find Ugin than it seems. Still, that also probably means it took 2 years for the Eldrazi to even eat that single continent, which is also around 1 year that Nahiri spent plotting and scheming on Innistrad while Sorin was looking for Ugin.

she's 6k+ years old, which is about as old as Urza.

and she doesn't care about the people of Zendikar, she cares about Zendikar itself.

Then they probably should have made her Red to represent how far she jumped off the deep-end, instead of making her White/Red and pretending there was still any sense of White's morals left in her.

>pretending there was still any sense of White's morals left in her.

White doesn't mean good. Vengeance is about as RW as it gets - it's emotionally satisfying and it's about repaying injustice. It's angry and it's righteous.

Weren't they fighting right before sorin shoved nahiri in her cage?

Wait wait wait.

If Ob Nix said the plane would last like 6 months more tops, and they lost one continent out of 7, then doesn't math dictate that it had only been a month?

Nahiri went there 2 weeks after they popped out and then immediately went back to Innistrad to fuck it up?

But she is using the literal oldest form of justice known to man. An eye for an eye.

Nahiri is motivated by rage (Red).

Her solution to the problem is vengeance (White).

But she does ask him multiple times why he didn't show up and he kept fucking denying her answers because he was sleepy and then she tried to seem bigger than him and he didn't like that so he shot her with his magic and that is what set her off to fight him.

Nahiri didn't even want to kill him, she wanted to overpower him to have him respect her and Sorin instead called his new girlfriend Terminator daughter and then shoved Nahiri into his closet and threw away the key.

Nahiri tried to handle the situation calmly and Sorin pissed her off.