I'm gonna do a charisma check to ask the NPC for info

I miss the days of Old school roleplaying where people would buy 10 foot poles to check for traps and actually talked to npcs. Kids these days just roll their dice at things. I roll to check for traps! I roll to use charisma to force NPCS to talk! I roll to think of the solution to this riddle!

Fucking generation of i-phone faggots.

Hey, I'm just 8 int in real life, I can't do puzzles, fuck off, man.

You know, if the success of Charisma checks depends on the Player's charisma rather than the character's, why have Charisma as an ability score? Sounds like a pointless score, then.

WELL THEN ROLL A WARRIOR AND EMBRACE YOUR 3 INCH THICK SKULL!

Well, I suppose it's fitting to post this in the strawman thread.

Remember, your 2 minutes of hate need not be limited to things that actually exist!

I went to a doctor, they said it was five inches thick you 6 WIS bastard!

>''I walk down the tavern stairs from my room and join everyone at the table for breakfast''
>Okay gimmie an acrobatics check

Rolled 17 + 5 (1d20 + 5)

This. If you play in a system with stats, use them.

Hey, I knew it was 1d6 thick, I took the average.

>6 WIS
>WIS
Not , but damn nigga, you ARE 8 INT

> I roll dexterity to try and roll a 20 on my acrobatics check

I've been putting effort into getting players to roll fort saves whenever they drink alcohol to see how their characters react to the stuff. That's why I say I do it, I really do it so they won't question it when they need to roll fort versus poison in their drink.

Your DM sounds shit, but skill checks aren't subject to natural Crits the same way attack rolls are desu

Lol, fuck off grampa. You sound like you're reading a "how to" guide to playing a retroclone.

I think the point was that he rolled well but the GM demanded that he roleplay in order to accept the high roll

Would you ask your players to lift 2tons when ther characters try to do the same in game with a str check?

>he can't lift two tons
>this little bitch probably can't even lift one ton
>I bet he doesn't lift at all

Yes.

Don't know if bait of just completely retarded.

Why bait? after all people seem to ask players for bravehart level of speeches, James Bond levels of charm, Jonny Brove levels of suave, etc if their characters have charisma

I know, a moderate skill check is at least 3 tons. Does he only play low level or something?

>NPC tells you their whole life story, including their fears, hopes, desires, fetishes, every rumor they heard over past couple years and story of all their ancestors three generations back
>it's gonna take couple days, so you can sit out the rest of the session

Just about the only thing you can simulate effectively at the tabletop is talking to people. Don't be stupid.

In the old days, it was a score used to define how many followers you could keep between other things

That's still pretty useless, considering how few games actually involve NPC followers.

I wouldn't call it a strawman. This shot has actually happened to me a lot. In dnd in particular, but sometimes in other systems, I tend to find players who think a natural 20 means they get everything they want perfectly and fantastically without any roleplay.

Sometimes it has happened with me to DMs. Once I got a nat20 on a stealth check and my dm ruled I had turned invisible, made no noise, emitted no smell, and was crawling on the ceiling for some reason.

>be an orc
>cant read
>can barely communicate
>break down the door of a temple, can't figure out the lock
>theres an ancient riddle on a tablet
>superhuman intellect kicks in, somehow decipher it and speak the exact solution

explain this

Not really. Having a church that you get revenue from makes it pretty easy to get good gear.

>roll nat20 on stealth check
>GM makes you stay absolutely quiet and whisper your actions so that no one else at the table can hear you

ctrl+f
'strawman'
5 matches

It's time to stop posting

It was a big deal in the past, the same for morale rolls during dungeon delving. I'm not saying it must be a thing nowadays, but it's interesting to see where it comes from

>Fucking generation of i-phone faggots.

>implying old people use anything other than apple

k.

I miss the days of being a metagaming faggot too, the way Gary intended.

>not making you use hand gestures to truly be silent

Don't be dumb. You couldn't play an orc in the old days. They were the bad guys.

>I roll Dex to dodge the arrow
>You can't dodge a fucking arrow
>Yes I can
>No you fucking can't. Here, dodge this.

liveleak.com/view?i=20e_1205588362

nice trips, but you get my point. A dumb character solving puzzles as if they were smart doesn't make sense.

>the one where he explains to the black cop that nubians have a racial bonus to see in the dark
man, I used to love that show

wut show

You stumble on the stairs on account of the famed Loose Nails, realizing that the tavern's name was not indeed innuendo and take only half damage of 2d6

Reno 911

Good luck getting an actual response to this post in a bait thread.

Hey look, both of the people in this supposed convo are being ridiculous at each other. Rabble rabble rabble.

Nigga, the point is the GM was asking for any, any level of role playing from his player.

Buy he's just there to roll die. Might as well just go buy the latest bio ware game.

You could give a shitty speech, but maybe the guard is touched by the heartfelt sincerity. Or it reminds him of his past, or something his father always used to say, or he's too busy staring at your tires and offers to let you in for a blow job regardless of what inane babble came out of your mouth.

But the player here doesn't even try.

You massive fucking faggot, you're clearly too stupid to give speeches irl so I suggest you learn to clean the chrome off a trailer hitch.

Pointless argument starter, but I'll bite.

Some level of capability with language is, unfortunately, a requirement for TTRPGs if you have any intention of weaving a narrative or having meaningful character interaction. I'm not asking for Shakespeare, but just giving me your character's intent and rolling isn't going to cut it. Give me something to work with. Anything. I'm not going to judge you that harshly for poor dialogue as long as you actually try and don't just cop out.

Them's the fucking breaks. If you don't like them, you should find another game.

>being ignorant of the danger of stairs

You are much more polite than me.

>So I use my str to lift the portculis
>How?
>...by lifting it?
>Explain me how
Then
>I use my [instert spell] to do [insert action]
>Ok

You stated your opinion like an ass, but I agree with the playstyle.

Me, I find players giving big speeches and then rolling the dice to be massively putting the cart before the horse. Especially the idiots who think they're JFK who give some massive oration about their character's views and hopes and the better world we can build together and then they roll a 1. It would be like describing your flawless and beautiful sword swing that then misses. Declare your intent, roll the dice, and then roleplay the result you get. How hard is it to understand?

>JFK delivers a thoughful speech to a bouncer
>gets thrown out of the club anyway because that's the bouncer's job

It's not hard to consider the roll as how effective the attempt was at convince the audience of it, not how well the attempt was delivered.

In most games - not all, but most games - even if you have a Charisma score it's usually not as easy to make it stronger. For Strength for example, you can buy a better weapon and upgrade it and/or you can wear heavier armor etc. Even if they don't give you a +1 to strength, they are indirectly benefiting it in a substantive manner. Charisma, at best, will usually have some magic circle of charisma down the road.

That is to say, that the roleplaying you do to make your strength score better is rescuing the princess to get the king's heirloom blade or exploring the dungeon for the lost sword of a knightly order or so on. For Charisma, the roleplaying you do is the process of coming up with points for reasonable negotiation that makes people want to deal with you regardless of your argument (if you're a nobleman a person will generally listen more, likewise if you have the lost knowledge that will end the famine) and the argument itself (how well you present it). Those are your +3 swords for Diplomacy.

You should be considering those as carefully as your dungeon exploration plans that get your +3 sword of monster slaying. And just like a legendary weapon could compensate for you having a terrible strength score on your swordsman, having a good argument can compensate for you having less of a Charisma score. Similarly, having a legendary sword on a swordsman will kill a legendary dragon a lot better than having a novice wield it and having a charismatic diplomat, rather than a guy who uses charisma as a dump stat and just argues well, enables those arguments to be wielded better.

You can say all you want about "some people can't talk well" but then some people can't do dungeon planning or properly strategize about how to fight the orcs either. At a certain point you have to accept that some things like wielding flaming swords must be abstracted and some skills like dungeon exploration or roleplaying are just part of playing the game in the first place.

Don't. Don't do to "bait" what is done to so many words Veeky Forums makes a meme out of, which is stripping them of all meaning by using them in situations where they don't belong. This thread is not bait. It is not a purposefully controversial statement posted to get a rise out of people. The goal of the thread and the post that started it is to start a "things DMs/players do/did that annoy/ed you". It's incredibly common, and in no way belies an intention to bait.
Don't ever use terms you don't know the meaning of again.

>why have Charisma as an ability score? Sounds like a pointless score, then.

Pendragon doesn't have mental ability scores at all, and it works just fine.

I use it as both. Generally, when telling a player the outcome of a roll, I look at whether it failed because of a low modifier or a low roll. Same with success, whether it's due to a high modifier or a high roll. Then I tell the player roughly what kind of outcome they should roleplay. Or, rather, what kind of outcome we should roleplay together.

For example, I might rule that a drooling simpleton without the charm that god gave turnips managed to appeal to a town guard by reminding him of an old friend, or the short tempered and coal-tongued wizard's frenzied arm movements accidentally revealed his brass cuff-links marking him as a member of some specific academic fraternity, and thus a sacred brother to the shopkeep. Likewise, I could see a paladin hearing an appeal from a silver-tongued bard bristling and turning up his nose because the bard ended a sentence in a preposition.

>>Lol, that's not charismatic at all, they don't tell you anything
Gather Information is a Diplomacy (Cha) check. I'm pretty sure that's the same in both Pathfinder and 5e. In 3.5 it was a separate skill, based on Cha.

Nice. Our group also rules alcohol as a mild poison so that dwarves and other bonuses still apply.

Makes perfect sense though. If you say very unconvincing words in a very convincing way there should be a massive penalty.
Convincing words said convncingly> Unconvincing words said convcincingly >= Convincing words said unconvincingly > Unconvincing words said unconvincingly.
OP is roughly on the order of a beautiful and persuasive speech explaining why the NPC wants to give him the information, only to be met with a natural 1 as the NPC pulls the wax out of his ears and says "Whatwazaaat?." The DM treated it fairly.

This thread is bait because it's asking a question that always leads to arguments and flame wars whenever they are brought up.

I know, without even reading the rest of the thread, that someone said "you have to lift the refrigerator before you can play a Barbarian hurr durr" because that's the low-hanging fruit that gets shat out in threads like this.

>be a wizard with 18 INT
>knows four languages
>Has access to level 3 spells
>Uses [knock] on the door because fuck locks
>there's a riddle on a tablet
>Flubs the roll so he just stands there with a thumb up his butt.
>Fighter with 9 INT gets it because his player rolled a NAT 20.

explain this

>hurr rehashed troll topic with zero indication that I've ever encountered the situation myself as I provide not a single detail
>memetext arrows
Report and hide, people.

Isn't this basically what happens in Lord of the Rings when the idiot hobbit figures out how to get into Moria?

...

In Hackson's movie, yes.

That thing is most definitely not built for anything approaching two tons. 200 kg, maybe.

Maybe riddles were never really the Wizard's area of expertise, whereas the fighter heard a riddle just like this from a tale his Granddad used to tell him as a cub.

Then I'll bring a forklift.

A guy with 18 INT is someone who would be roughly as smart as Stephan Hawking.

Also, pretty sure that Magic man would be used to riddles considering most spells are written in esoteric and confusing riddles anyways.

Do you have a license for those?

The films have always been better dnd-analogues than the books anyway.

No argument there.

Hey, I'm not questioning where you got 2 tons of bullshit from.

ROLL FIRST. THEN ACT OUT THE RESULT.

That's it.

Oh, and if you're completely incapable of acting out the result in a way that's entertaining or immersive for the other players, you're playing the wrong character. Or game.

The rules are there to give you something other than just a negotiation with the DM to decide what happens. They're not there to let you skip the entire fucking point of role-playing (role-playing, for those that are curious.)

That said, OP your example is shit because you can't just roll and say that 20 gives you whatever you want, the DM needs to establish what the realistic levels of success are.

20 doesn't have to mean "I totally get them to say eeeverything or give me a bag of gold and a trophy" some times 20 means "I actually make them hesitate long enough for me to make a dash for it instead of being arrested on the spot".

Stop being shit.

>The wizard got tangled up in his own train of thought because he assumed it was much more complicated than it was.

>The barbarian knows absolutely nothing about elvish riddle games or late-trimechian traditional riddle puzzles and just thought it looked kind of the same as a riddle old Jeb down at the docks used to tell, or that it was completely obvious if you just take it exactly as it's written instead of thinking there's a lot of implications and hints.

Maybe he was just drawing a blank. The guy stuffs so much eldritch crap in his head, he's liable to have an off day.

Sometimes even the greats choke.

I study the form of the soldier as he engages my comrade in a brawl. Noticing that he favors his left side when throwing a punch I wait for an opening. I strike!
I rolled a 5!
Okay, you missed.
What do you mean? I waited for him to leave an opening, that should give me advantage or an auto succeed!
Get the fuck out faggot. I'm here to roll dice not to watch you jerk off to your combat fetish.

You roll first, then you act out the result, you fucking idiot.

The guy who describes what happens before the roll has determined what happens is a moron, but so are you for playing role-playing games just to roll dice.

Grab a board game like a sane person instead of shitting things up.

Yes, that was his point.

My group always played conversations out. The charisma statlines were only rolled for if you were shy, not a good talker or trying a really hard sell.

I think its a much better method than always rolling, I don't think a player should be a blithering retard in conversation just because they specced into strength. It also means shy players can still play social butterflies. The average person is capable of making perfectly reasonable points so if a player makes a reasonable sounding argument I'm not gonna roll for their average joe character to do the same.

That said it works the other way too, you can't make players do something because some NPC rolled 20 when talking to them. Most players appreciate that though.

>I'm gonna do a charisma check to ask the NPC for info
Lol no. Tell me what you're trying to do. I'll determine whether or not a roll is needed, and if so what that roll will be.

Act -> roll -> act is superior.
GM can apply modifiers based on the initial act and the secondary act is much more organic coming off the initial act and roll.

>this is the closest Veeky Forums gets to the sort of discussion of GNS theory they had on the Forge...

Hawking and the other scientists is what Nietzsche called "an inverse cripple", I could totally see that blockhead fail to understand anything outside of his little bubble of expertise.

>GNS theory
>in 2016

I'm pretty sure we had those when they were relevant, about a decade ago.

>20 doesn't have to mean "I totally get them to say eeeverything or give me a bag of gold and a trophy" some times 20 means "I actually make them hesitate long enough for me to make a dash for it instead of being arrested on the spot"

Idiot, the actual number doesn't matter, the point is that the roll/number is high enough to warrant success in the game being played.

I like this.

sorry if thats the case dont play social game if you are too stupid for social interactions.

I feel ya Bro.
I started about 2 years ago, but fortunately my group never "rolls for diplomacy" everything is IC talk! Like it should be.
But then our games are very narrative driven and not about dungeons and such...

wow i cringed at your autistic post

Oh hey it's another one of these threads.

If my player doesn't specify how exactly he's doing a thing,
I just make a guess at the most obvious or likely way to do a thing,
and base the DC on that.
Player won't RP? Perfectly OK, I just insert generic RP on their behalf.

Works well. People who wanna roleplay can do so, whether for the stories or for the +numbers
People who don't wanna roleplay can just say "I bullshit my way out of it" or whatever and I fill in the blanks for them.

Try it sometimes
If your players just wanna roll dice and not RP
then do generic RP on their behalf
ez pz

But how will I show my players how superior I am to them this way?