I'm curious, have you ever taken part in a game set in the islamic golden age, or based on the 1001 nights? Any stories...

Fucking Mongols.

They trashed the library of Bagdad so badly the river was said to have run black with the ink from the books - probably the biggest loss of knowledge in one go since the library of Alexandria burned

A meme that people are willing to kill for though.

Fucking Mongols, all they did was fuck shit up for everyone.

>They used to be so civilized

They didn't. They are the only people with the real claim to causing more damage than Mongols (at least with Monglos the claim to desertifying whole countries and wiping out ecosystems may be exaggerated) and whatever achievements they had were embers from burning precedessor civilizations to the ground.

Jesus Christ of the Book I didn't realise /pol/ was leaking so much

I wanted to. But I know too little about it.

A campaign set in medieval notMiddle-East sounds really interesting to be honest

I agree, any historians around who can tell us a bit about how this kind of game could work?

>that there was a golden age following the conquests of Muhammad's rightfully guided caliphs that led in a relative boom in science, the arts and influence.

Influence, yes. Science and arts, no. The initial expansion of the Caliphate was a fucking apocalypse that's different to even comprehend for today's people because World Wars absolutely pale before it. While it is arguable how much damage was caused by direct extermination and how much by Arabs failing to maintain the intricate agriculture system they captured, Egypt, Syria and Northern Africa (before that the economic heart of the ancient world) were so comprehensively devastated that in places there was not even enough people remaining to mine abandoned cities for stone.

Citation please? Not saying I don't believe you, I just want some sources that back it up.

Your sources on this?

As far as Science and Arts, I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen anything on Islamic Art. I should also mention that while Europe turned to Bible-masturbation, the Islam scholars preserved much of the Greek thinkers knowledge, particularly Aristotle. The discovery of blood flow and development of mathematics, among other scientific advances, can not be overlooked.

It can also result in really funny shenanigans. Like fucking an evil spirit, getting turned into an ape, then becoming the Emperor of China.

Now that I remember, Islam set the basis for the scientific method, so fuck you, disregard your entire post, and back to /pol/ where you should have never left.

Yeah, they also built on Indian and Greek mathematics, working on developing trigenometry, algebra (the name alone should tell you that), decimals and such

the "islamic" golden age was made by persian learned men and the achievements of the achaemenid legacy. Muslims claim the achivements of others like the dindus claim they were kangz

This book is practically a tabletop campaign. In fact I would not be surprised if it was adapted from a real life campaign this guy was in.

>ITT: Muslim apologists

All memes kill user, all memes kill

It was not discovered by Muslims, but rather by the conquered peoples living under Muslim subjugation. You cannot ignore centuries of barbarism. The myth of a "Golden Age" is just that.

so what are you saying, the fact that the Persians themselves weren't muslims themselves when they discovered some new and old sciences? The technology they discovered aren't new at all and weren't theirs in the first place? I guess the "Renaissance" age was a myth too after all when they rediscovered all the sciences back from the olden days, correct?

It doesn't matter if it was a persian who discovered Algebra and not an arab that discovered it. the fact that he himself is a muslim that contributed to the fact that it was an age for muslims as a whole to advance in the sciences and arts at the time regardless of their race.

Oh come on, user! Everyone knows you either love terrorism or admit that no muslim has ever done anything worthwhile, ever.

It's the time for it.

Does /pol/ have to shit up every thread about a non-white setting or are you across that if you don't constantly scream your bs that people will forget about you?

The 'golden age' of Islam had nothing more to do with Islam than the Renaissance had to do with Christianity.

Islam had no part in it. The only thing it's ever done has been to hold scientific advancement back, or at best, be neutral toward it

Of course, the same can be said of virtually all religions, to varying degrees.

yeah, well said user-kun

The truth of the matter is that until the 20th century, all of the nations that had a significant impact on the world were either European or colonized by Europeans.

But user, Italy was the only region in Europe whose Renaissance was spurred by NON-Christian art. the French, Spanish, and Germans didn't paint Greek and Roman gods. They painted Jesus n' stuff

Fampai I browse /pol/ too but you're drinking just a little too much of the stormfag koolaid right now.

The Islamic Golden Age was closer to Scholasticism and the 12th Century Renaissance in which religion did play a major role in the development of science. While pre-Islamic societies were advanced, they had been just as advanced for centuries with very little scientific or philosophical progress. It was the scholar-pilgrims of the Islamic period that became famous, and their education usually involved a religious mission in traveling between circles of teachers in pursuit of spiritual enlightenment as well as renown.

To put it another way. When the Turks were in charge of the caliphate postcards depicting Mohammad were a fairly common thing to sell to tourists. Not one gave a shit.

So it's only as important to Islam as say spazzing like an idiot and claiming that you're speaking in tongue is to Christianity.

This is absolutely and completely wrong. The depopulation was caused by Yersinia pestis making the rounds followed by excessively destructive wars between the Persians (Sasanian) and the Romans (Byzantines).

The Muslims then sorta moved in and conquered the two completely warn out empires. Same thing as what the Europeans did to America and the Romans did to Germany. Bad for the natives but nowhere near World War levels.

"Disease" like "money", is one the single most boring and mundane explanations for everything in history and of course therefore one of the most accurate ones in an annoying number of cases.

Real life LOVES it's stupid anticlimaxes, and for most of history the anticlimax was always "didn't have/make enough money to do this awesome thing so it never happened" or "and then he/she got sick and died".

Heraclius pulling a heroically impossible victory out of nowhere is still pretty impressive. Just you know in real life when the underdog country wins hard after losing for a long time, that usually means both sides have a huge depression after the war is over not just the losing side.

There are a lot of cool ideas in this thread

>Islamic Golden Age

you mean the era right before Islam took over, when the middle east was a center of culture and science?

>muh byzantine """"empire""""

Gibbons was right about you shits.

>prohibition on images of living things
That wasn't universal. There are plenty of images of people, animals, fantastical creatures and even prophets/holy men throughout Islamic history. In the latter case their faces would be blank and their head would be surrounded with a flame.
has it right.

Mongols, colonization, internal strife, ossification. Although the mongols did cause massive damage and setbacks, it didn't end the Golden Age, which actually reached its heights after the Mongols. They also did not affect Andalusia and Timbuktu which were major centres of knowledge. A bigger problem was the Closing of the Doors of Ijtihaad, which led to close-minded reverence of previous ideas and thought at the expense of innovation. Then the European colonisation put another nail in the coffin when it prohibited the madrassas from teaching non-religious subjects, further distancing the religious scholars from science. Keep in mind that almost all the greatest scientists of that time were also religious scholars, and those who weren't were still well versed in religious studies.

>The relationship between it and Islam is pretty questionable though
It's not. The Islamic interest in science and art was primarily religious in nature, and both were vehicles to increase faith. The interest and study of maths and science started with commerce and the complex inheritance laws and after the conquests the need to be able to calculate prayer times as well as the direction of prayer.

Islam was a part of that era too, it was just pretty relaxed because its leading figures weren't retards.

Then the fundamentalists got back in power and ruined everything again.

>being this delusional

The only reason we were even able to colate and preserve most early texts is due to religious orders preserving them as inquiries into the nature of gods creation.

and to add on to that:
>Islam set the basis for the scientific method
Interestingly, this is as a direct result of Ashari theology, which is skeptical and empiricist, resulting in the earliest known form of our modern scientific method by Al-Haytham, who was an Ashari.
Another interesting fact is that Al-Ghazali, another Ashari, views causality in much the same way as the atheist David Hume. Again, a standard Ashari view.

>t. fat guy Ahmed

This guy. This guy trolls so hard.

>Then the fundamentalists got back in power and ruined everything again.
It always baffled me why islamic extremists tend to disprove scientific thought. Even if they ignore sunneh there is plenty of places in Qur'an which encourage science studies.

I will loosely paraphrase something that came from my Imam. It goes along the lines of
>1 man of science is more important to God than a 1000 devout men

>It always baffled me why islamic extremists tend to disprove scientific thought.
It shouldn't. This has more to do with politics and power than religion or science. Extremists use whatever is convenient to justify their actions. They will just as easily do the reverse if that aides their cause.

>muh "extremists"

Does the Qur'an say that non-believers must be coverted or murdered, or does it not say that?

Does the Hadith say that women are chosen by God to be subservient to men, or does it not say that?

When "extremist" behaviors are prescribed by the guiding philosophy of the religion in question, can they really be called extremist?

Actually it does not, jyza tax was a thing.
The woman part is just iron age stuff, today's Christian fanatics in murrica are likewise.

Actually this would be Veeky Forums the Islamic "golden age" is really myth. The actual level of scientific advancement was comparable the the European middle ages with the most important achievements being the copying of Greco Roman texts, something that Europeans did as well.

Really it's just really over hyped, although I am not sure why...

>Actually it does not
You are saying here and now the Qur'an does not say that non-believers and apostates must be murdered.

You sure you want to stand by that?

This isn't even bait, it's just retarded. Only a moron would actually believe this.

>Does the Qur'an say that non-believers must be coverted or murdered, or does it not say that?
That's rubbish and a stupid question. You know that the Qur'an doesn't say that, why even ask?
See pic related and link: lettertobaghdadi.com/
All Islamic scholars and every single major Islamic institution worldwide has condemned terrorism. See here for some examples: kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/

>Does the Hadith say that women are chosen by God to be subservient to men, or does it not say that?
Nope. Doesn't say that, unless you're cherry picking hadith to match your own interpretation or what you want to believe about Islam. Islam doesn't subscribe to modern western views of gender equality, but has its own notions of equity (rather than equality). The status of women is Islam is somewhat complex. There are whole books written on this. Men are seen as better in some ways, and women are seen as better in other ways. Many traditional scholars have even said that women are closer to God/Allah than men because of the ability carry children and therefore have a higher status.

Also see gender equality in Afghanistan before the Soviets fucked up the country so bad in the 80s that their version of the KKK was able to take over government.

/pol/ is trying to enforce it's debate standards and intellectual elitism in Veeky Forums because the people here were smarter than they were. So they chase the creative people out so that only autists and elitists are left.

Ever notice how the complaints about bad threads always skip the ones where /pol/shit is being discussed?

You two faglords should fuck off to /pol/ with your MIDF and take your whining with you

How can you condemn terrorism while supporting the philosophy that informs it? You cannot say "terrorism is bad" but then say "The Qur'an only says it's ok to murder oppressors!" That's ridiculous.

Every single one of the verses in your pic has an excuse in it to murder people. Murder is bad, except if the people you murder aren't inclined towards peace, whatever that means. Murder pagans, but not if they agree to your commands.

You've only proven my point. The Qur'an explicitly prescribes war and death to non-believers and gives its followers ample philosophical backing to do so.

>Islam doesn't subscribe to modern western views of gender equality, but has its own notions of equity

Do you believe men and women should be treated equally in society? Yes or no.

Oh man. This is retarded. I don't get what you're trying to say, it makes no sense. Ask yourself the same questions about say for example the USA (or any other country, it doesn't really matter). If someone launches an attack against the USA, and then the USA retaliates, killing them, does that then mean that the USA is evil because it murders people and it's laws that allow for self-defence is actually promoting terrorism? Do you realise how retarded that sounds?

Do you know what would be cool? An Arabian nights and Dune mashup. Flying carpets and giant sandworms. Jinn and Bene Gesserit. Sindbad and Muadib. Hmm, that might actually work.

You need to ask? Of course he doesn't.

>The relationship between it and Islam is pretty questionable though, other than Islam driving the conquests that quickly brought together diverse schools of thought under the rule of one empire.

There is no relationship. Egypt, Syria, and Persia were the centers of civilization in the ancient world. The only civilized state that didn't fall was Eastern Rome. These very advanced civilizations didn't collapse overnight. Islamic conquerers rode high on their conquests for a few hundred years, then sunk back into barbarism. Helped, of course, by the eventual decisions by leading clerics that non-Qoran based learning was haram.

>Blaming USA
The USA doesn't have a binding religious document requiring that it murders people who insult it. Islam does.

You also didn't answer my question. Do you believe men and women should be treated equally in society? Yes or no.

It's well known that /pol/ is shit but refrain from telling people to not drink the kool-aid. It's on the intellectual level of /pol/tergeists accusing people of being blue-pilled.

It does make sense, dude. You're deflecting.

Islam's definition of "self-defense" is ridiculously broad, as your own picture demonstrates. If a group of people doesn't obey your commands, it's ok to kill them. If a group of people aren't "peaceful," again wondering what that definition means, it's ok to kill them. If a group of people rejects your way of life, it's ok to kill them.

You're deflecting and defending a murderous, barbaric ideology.

Tone is too different. Arabian nights is comedy for kids after all, freemen breeding orgies don't fit here.

Condemning a dangerous, violent religion of conquest apparently makes you a /pol/lack, don't you know.

...

plus, it was flav-or-aid, not kool-aid

A large swathe of the population that call themselves 'Christians' would disagree with you there.

Are you wearing mixed fabrics today? That's a stoning. Ever disobeyed your parents? Stoning. Got raped? You better believe that's a stoning!

The only difference is that one document is being used as justification for the political and material ambitions of ruthless men and the other one isn't any more.

As someone who doesn't like Islam, I just want to say... No, he's not deflecting, it's a comparison. You clearly didn't read the example quotes, and if you did, you have willfully or stupidly misunderstood them.

"Fight... Against those who fight you."
Yeah, no, that's just straight up self-defense.

"Let there be no hostility except against oppressors."
This is pretty vague, could be interpreted in many ways, it offers excuses to murder people, but it hardly condones it.

"Will you not fight against those who violated their peace treaties... And initiated the fighting against you."
Several of you guys are pretending this quote says "Kill pagans who refuse your orders."
It doesn't. It says fight people who attack you.

You're paraphrasing and re-wording quotes and then saying they're something entirely different to what they are, and telling the guy you're arguing with your points make sense.

Yes, they make sense, if you accept that the quotes he's citing say something entirely different to what they actually do say.

He is defending his barbaric culture, it's understandable

Based on the 1001 nights? It would become boring very fast.

The original, non-Disneyfied is a very big series, and, although the amount of smut would surely please the average fa/tg/uy, the stories become railroading very fast.

TL/DR of the series: Islam good, Catholicism bad, Catholic guy always bad, Catholic girl always turns to Islam.

>Blaming USA
Whoosh.
Reaaaly missing the point. Ok, maybe I shouldn't have used the USA as an example, or any country for that matter. I should have used the term 'political entity' instead.

>is ridiculously broad
No, not at all, it's excruciatingly painfully specific. Unlike Christianity which is primarily faith based (mostly protestant, not as much Catholic), religions like Islam and Judaism are legalistic. There are rules and rituals for everything and these rules tend to be on par with and as important in these religions as faith is in Christianity.

Meant for

>Arabian nights is a comedy for kids

Jesus Christ, man, you have no idea what are you talking about.

Read the non-Disney version, for fuck's sake.

I don't know, a lot of the Arabian Nights stories seem a bit adult to me. Of course it will have to be a bit more political with a lot of intrigue. Maybe add some Dark Sun into the mix as well?

Calm your tits, I'm talking about great cartoon for kids.

I know, but nobody uses the term "Drinking the flav-or-aid".

I always found it distasteful anyway. The story of Jonestown wasn't about a "suicide cult" like those UFO nuts, it was much sadder than that. Jim Jones and his church began as a pro-civil rights, openly socialist church trying to help the poor, with Jim Jones being no more crazy than Billy Graham or Orel Roberts, just left-leaning rather than right.
Thing was, being an openly socialist church that was growing rapidly in the early 60s meant the US government immediately decided the whole thing was a commie plot. So they started "investigating" and Jones and his followers started getting their phones tappes, and having people follow them.
Give it ten years, and Jones and crew had begun to get justifiably paranoid, beleiving that agents of good old babylon Uncle Sam were trying to shut down their church and stop their message from saving people.
They went to Jonestown to get away from US territory, in hopes that they'd finally be left alone. It didn't work; they were still being spied on. Now US senators were helicoptering out to "monitor the situation." Members of the congregation were getting kidnapped by "deprogrammers" a weird artifact of the 70s where seizing people against their will and subjecting them to brainwashing to correct "cult techniques" was a bit of a fad.
The end was basically Jones and his followers reenacting Masada to escape the Romans. They felt, with quite a lot of justification, that they were being persecuted, and that there was no other way to end that persecution except either to end their lives or let others dictate their beliefs. What's worse is, I think they were right about that. Once the US government decides you're the enemy it's hard to change its mind.
It's really sad, IMO, and a lot more nuanced than "they followed a crazy cult leader and he told them to kill themselves cuz he was crazy lol"

>itt retards talking shit about Mongols, who have not checked their facts.

I hate when it when someone starts a thread about Arabian Nights style settings you faggots turn into another "damn them sand niggers" /pol/ thread.

>Ι don't know where the numerals in my post came from
>I don't know where algebra came from
>I don't know who translated and safekept Greek, Indian, and Persian philosophers and mathematicians when the rest of Europe sank into the Dark Age, Byzantium included

Islamic golden age is yet to come. Less than 30 years from today they will control Europe.

I am not even memeing.

>Le dark age
Also, our numerals are ultimately derived from India.

>algebra

Isn't that some kind of terrorist news channel?

> >Le dark age

>Le no dark age

Go away, revisionist!

and who brought them to Europe?

youtu.be/Wp_7Gdf2blE
Speaking of...
Am I the only one excited for this?

Αrabs, yes. Islam, no. The Turks that came later were Islamists as well, and they were as fundamentalist (aka Quran-carrying crazy) as they come.

no, that's Al Kahol

While the light was certainly dimmed, it was by no means dark. Those ancient texts didn't disappear from every library overnight, there were still many copies and many copies made, if not the whole disciple would have disappeared and when the texts that were lost were reintroduced, there would have been no one around to copy them. This is just one example of a discipline that lost what it needed to do it like the great civilizations of the past, but kept doing it because people knew enough. Architecture is another good example, pic related is not something a civilization in the "dark ages" would have built. These buildings are still admired to day and the style continued for centuries after its first examples because it showed off the impressively skilled workers of the church.
Not purposefully, Europeans encountered the numerals them brought them back. The way you say it makes it seem as though Islamic cultures explicitly intended to bring them to Europe.

>Timbuktu
>Mali/Songhai
Wait, you're saying that black people used to have one of the big centers of learning on the planet? That this guy isn't full of shit?

Not just Arabs. There were many Persians, Africans and even non-muslims involved such as Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and local middle eastern minorities. They all contributed, along with the Arabs, in establishing the House of Wisdom. Similar endeavours took place in Spain under the Umayyad rulers there. After Andalusia fell, many of the intellectuals fled to the middle eastern, one such being Maimonides who then went on to work for Saladin.

Your best bet is to start a thread on Veeky Forums.

...

>Egypt, Syria, and Persia were the centers of civilization in the ancient world.

And the centers of Medieval Islamic culture were happened to be Khwarezm and the Jazira, not places known for being centers of anything until the Caliphates. Egypt, Syria, and Persia (as in the two Iraqs and the Caspian region) didn't become centers of Islamic civilization until some three or four centuries after their conquest.