Pure Martial Character in a Magic Heavy Setting

Both Hercules and Odysseus serve as good examples of Pure Martial done right.

Like - if a Martial is to compete with Wizards in a high Magic setting, he needs to be able to either do such fucking insane feats of strength that they make the laws of physics cower, or he needs to be crafty and clever as fuck.

A good example is an anime called Chivalry of a failed Knight. Basically it is a Martial Vs. Caster because the guy is considered a "failure" of a knight because he can't do flashy magic shit and the most he can do is do strength enhancement that lasts for a few minutes so basically what he did was take his strength enhancing ability and compress it down to like a minute which gives him maximum superhuman strength combined with all of his swordsmanship from practicing.

I feel they made him a bit stu-ish a bith because of some of his techniques like being able to "see" the logic behind an opponents attack or some shit like that but the I like the concept

>You need to specify a system.
My bad.
The system is not D&D 3.5
It is GURPS with a heavily modified magic system.
The setting was originally based off Faerun though.

>>super fast
>>strong
>>hard to kill
>>keen senses
>>jump like a boss
That describes Rock Lee pretty well

>>resistant to magical influence
A lesser form of anti-magic, and more acceptable.

>GURPS
Oh. Well just like pump your strength really really fucking high and hit like a truck and have a warships worth of HP.

Sounds like you need to look at the Martial Arts and Supers splats.

>The Goddamned Batman
That kinda works, but the tech level doesn't support it.
Honestly, Batman would be the uber-magic-item-user martial in the setting.
Which is cool as hell.
Some level of mage knight is really the ideal option, but if a player wants to be the Amish Don Quixote Is it feasable?

How do you spec Odysseus without author fiat?

Whos that guy from Mortal Kombat X who uses pistols and rifle? He has a few low key magic items on him so he seems like he's be a better fit then Gary Stu man.

No offense, but you're kind of reinforcing my decision not to mention the system.
Amping the stats and seeking alternate splats are not in-setting solutions.

Although, fleshing out the Rock Lee option could probably benefit from the martial arts splat.

I will have to check this out.
Is it any good?

Anima BF is made for you

>The Goddamned Batman
That character can't work beyond comics or movies user, RPG characters don't have that amount of plot armor, you'll need literally more fate points than grains of sand on Earth

It's short and doesn't have much in the way of real substance but it's a fun thing to watch for some of the fight scenes.

My favorite one is the MC's sister who uses Ice powers versus the schools president who uses lightning based quick draw attacks with her sword.

Play a knockoff Batman then.

>In general, the best way to reach maximum effective as the guy who can't use magic is to use everything at your disposal that isn't magic and fight smart with those things.
Well, can an OP use /thread?
More of this please.

>Bombs, caltrops, oil slicks, blankets, nets, poisons, grappling hooks, hand cannons, ect. ect.
Are any of these in the setting?
Not really.
Is there a logical reason why not?
Aside from the gunpowder... fuck.

>All the things that the ultra casters have access to but would never think to use because they're so focused on bigger and flashier spells. For example, if you're going up against a lightning centric mage, set up the arena beforehand by driving metal things into the ground to divert his spells while using wooden/leather equipment yourself.
Goddamned Batman

>Study spells and magic, but not in the way that you use them. Just enough to know what each spell does. Study monsters too. Know thy enemy. Know thy tools
Batman the Beastmaster with Knowledge(Magic Lore)
Not a level 1 PC, but one helluva character option

Rock Lee was magical.

In the sense that he was delightful, or that he employed magic in some way?

Not that user, but I'm pretty sure everyone worth a shit in that setting had ninja chi power. It's only not magic in that it's not called magic.

You could widen your influence over the world beyond the battlefield by making a character with social influence and wealth and whatnot to go with your martial prowess. Even when you absolutely need magical help, you might know a wizard who needs money or owes you a favor.

>resistant to magical influence
>A lesser form of anti-magic, and more acceptable.
Yes. Just because you're not a wizard, doesn't mean you can't withstand their juju.

Because any character based off the Batman must have every fiat and writer loophole that has ever been employed to support the Batman?
Right.
Cage's Batman copy from Kickass used guns, lacked principles, & died a horrible sloppy death, such is the life of a PC.

naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Rock_Lee
naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Taijutsu

100% correct.
And Rock Lee did not use an ounce of it.

he uses it when he opens his chakra gates or whatever, although he's already ridiculously fast and strong before doing that.

The Social Martial or Captain Diplomancer could work too.
Magic could kick his ass, but he's got a guy for that.
Helps party cohesion too, while being better than just some guy who who is good with a weapon.

>And Rock Lee did not use an ouce of it
He did, 8 gates shit was ki, just a different way of using ki

>First chapters of the manga explain tha tliterally whatever you do is because chakra
>"nuh nuh, he didn't use chakra!"
So Rock Lee is dead and whatever we see is just our imagination? because that's the only explanation of why he doesn't use chakra

Rock Lee can't into Ninjutsu and Genjutsu, nothing else, that doesn't mean he isn't as magical as Neji or Chouji, he just uses "magic" in a different way

karate kid

>not using splats
Then why the fuck are you playing GURPS

Okay, find me a better example of a martial that renounces any and all magic in a magic heavy setting and still kicks ass.
I'll wait.

Actually, now that I think of it, the gates thing is similar to a Paladin only ability in the setting that lets you tap into unused soul energy to use as physical energy.

>They didn't let Guy sacrifice himself
Still mad they didn't just let him go out in style

At the risk of triggering someone who hates the site, you can try flicking through the Badass Normal page on TvTropes for something that sounds suitable.

Doesn't GURPS have the absolute mundane thing?

Just be one of those and when a wizard tries to cast a spell on you kick him in his dumb face

>All things are magical, even posting on Veeky Forums, so we're all wizards.

Pocket sand him from across the map when he tries to use ranged explosion magic on you.

>Then why the fuck are you playing GURPS
Because I rebuilt D&D magic from the ground up, realized it no longer matched D&D rules well, and GURPS Fantasy was a good fit.
Not all GURPS needs to be ALL GURPS.

In Naruto, you fucking retard.

>Not all GURPS needs to be ALL GURPS.
No, but if you want cool martial shit, use the cool martial shit rules, man

I remai, skeptical, but unrriggered.
I will look.

But.. where would he get them?

He'd have to make them himself if playing GURPS.

Naruto ended like shit
>Built up villains turns to be nothing and they introduce a new villain out of the blue
>Literally have the means to ressurrect every death but decide not to
>They simply forgive kid edgelord
>Long etc

Well, Naruto was shit, shouldn't have expected any other kind of ending

>First chapters of the manga explain tha tliterally whatever you do is because chakra

If that's the case I'm pretty sure it was retconned when Kaguya and the chakra fruit was introduced, because humans managed to walk around and do stuff and generally stay alive before they had chakra.

Shippuden is more filler than plot

Chakra = magic inherent in all life
Ninjutsu and Genjutsu = Sorcery and Wizardry
He can tap into his life energy, that doesn't mean he can cast magic equivalent.
Follow an analogy.

There are tons of capes that fit the bill.

Marvel

Hawkeye (trick arrows might count as "magic items")
Mockingbird
The Punisher (military grade weaponry might count as "magic items")
Bullseye
Black Widow (she had some sort of super-serum but it mostly just keeps her young and thus able to stay at the top of her game)

DC

The Question
Green Arrow, Speedy/Arsenal, and Arrowette/Artemis (trick arrows again)
Robin/Nightwing and Batgirl
The Crimson Avenger
Vigilante
The Blue Beetle (Ted Kord version is just a guy with some gadgets)
The Karate Kid
Numerous Batman Villians
Pre-Serum Deathstroke/Slade Wilson
Deadshot

Pretty sure that fruit gave you the ability to control chakra and not actual chakra

Yes, the Mundane Advantage is a thing. But it is really a type of Reality Altering Super Power as at high levels it can literally turn a monster into a Scooby Doo Style guy in a rubber suit.

He fucking becomes Flash meets Hulk by using chakra, don't give me the "nuh nuh, he's a normal guy, he doesn't use magic".

I prefer to follow the manga and not your head canon

No, that wouldn't make sense, her whole motivation was getting back the chakra her children "stole" from her. Nobody has chakra before her.

So I don't think there's any evidence that Rock Lee is using chakra except when he opens the gates.

Even with the retcon, Lee still needs the Gates to compete with the rest of his friends and enemies.

>I don't think there's any evidence that Rock Lee is using chakra except when he opens the gates.

He has chakra coils (chakra veins things) but they are malformed and do not allow him to utilize chakra "externally" (throwing jutsu around). He can still use chakra to reinforce himself and be stronger and faster.

The gates just remove limiters. the first one removes the normal "cant use full muscle power cause bones cannot endure it" while the last blows open the gates regulating the chakra flow through his body, same reason, diferent kind of power.

The fruit was the origin of chakra.

>tfw everybody has chakra
>tfw sharingan came from byakugan
>tfw only one mangekyou
>tfw only one Uchiha left
>tfw Obito died before the 4th became hokage
>tfw 1001 more stuff that got retconned later
God, is Toriyama even worse than Tite?

What "spells" does Rock Lee "cast"?
What does he do that any human in the setting couldn't do with enough training and determination?
What rituals does he do to perform superior feats?
What have I missed?

That is very different from what I remember.
One of us is likely wrong.

>He never saw Rune Soldier
Rune Soldier is an anime that is exactly what you're thinking about OP, go watch it and have your answers fulfilled

Literally geniuses like Kakashi can't do what Lee does, Kakashi even explained that not even all the amount of training can allow you to open the gates, that only a few can and that Lee and Gai can ever open all.

As for spells he casts Bulls strength, haste, cats grace, bears endurance and improved versions of these.

I can only hope your smugness is deserved.

So Lee is exceptional, like a PC.

>As for spells he casts Bulls strength, haste, cats grace, bears endurance and improved versions of these
That doesn't answer the question I was asking. In what way does he cast any of those spells the way a mage casts magic?

Billy Batson for that matter.
>magical
>no spells except technically shocking grasp
>has been known to go toe-to-toe with the fucking Spectre.

There are more ways to do magic than wiggling your fingers and shouting some vancian words.
Shadowrun adepts never even think about and sometimes aren't even aware of the magic they use, but they use it all the same.

Wasn't his power literally from a wizard?

I agree with you in spirit, but you're still failing to follow the analogy.
How does he do it?
No answer?
Fine, but he remains a martial.

Yeah, no. His powers are specifically magic. He casts fucking Tenser's Transformation when he yells SHAZAM.

A martial who uses superhuman, mystical abilities far and beyond what a normal person can do.
It's not "chi", but that doesn't make it mundane.

>A martial who uses superhuman, mystical abilities far and beyond what a normal person can do.
>It's not "chi", but that doesn't make it mundane.
But if any determined normal person could achieve the same abilities through mundane means, what then?

Play 4e with inherent bonuses, or any number of other games that fully allow this.

Rolemaster.

Crits>magic.

>But if any determined normal person could achieve the same abilities
No, they fucking can't, you can train 10 life times and still get nothing, 8 gates are not a training only ability, you need to be special, stop pushing around that Lee doesn't use chakra.

I hated how everyone in naruto turned out to be special supermen when the whole premise was gifted vs training

Welcome to shonen

Yes, it's possible but just don't expect to be as powerful as magic users.

Playing a character that relies purely on physical strength in a high magic setting is just gimping yourself.

It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

If we're talking settings instead of mechanics, then the simple answer is that you force magic users to specialise. You want huge fireballs? Specialise in pyromancy. You want impenetrable armour? Specialise in reinforcement magic. You want to create food and water from thin air? Specialise in conjuration. You want to see the future? Specialise in divination. You want to create your own planes? Specialise in meta-construction. And so on.

This way, you wouldn't have mages inevitably outclass warriors, as there would always be holes in their skillset that a warrior could exploit. And while a mage could work hard and master several specialities, such individuals would be exceptionally rare and high-level. And an equally exceptional warrior would be close to a demigod in stature, so the mage's power wouldn't be much of an issue then, either.

He's lying, the malformation is bad fanon. Lee was just hopelessly bad at ninjustu and genjutsu. If he didn't have chakra he would have died in the main part of the story before the fruit retcon, and even after that he would have been useless because he couldn't amp up his physical stats.

This

Oh right, I also forgot the little things like Shunshin and water walking, which were also chakra and also things he did.

Gai mentions at the begining of the manga, during the exams, that Lee BARELY can use genjutsu or ninjutsu. He actually can use some, examples being walk on water, run up walls and minor shit like that

Really high Speed and Dodge to dodge magical blasts, and Magical Resistance to resist everything else. Really high ST to penetrate magical DR also helps.

>What "spells" does Rock Lee "cast"?
Fist

This framework would also solve the issue of monks being underpowered. Just make their particular martial art into another discipline of magic, focused around expressing one's inner power through physical action or something. That's why an unarmed monk in a tunic can go toe-to-toe with a knight in steel plate: his fists hit like hammers, and his skin can turn aside blades.

Oh, and it lets you do fun things with the geography of your setting! Instead of all wizards being the same everywhere, maybe different magic disciplines developed in different parts of the world. One country might have powerful fire mages, while a country over the nearby mountains has mind-readers, and a country across the sea has mastered summoning and binding demonic servants. A great empire might be able to gather up these scattered disciplines, and master them all. Then when the empire falls, those disciplines could scatter to the winds, and grow into new forms.

Extremely advance martial arts character who might as well be using magic. Seriously, rock lee might as well have been using magic (sorry, ninjutsu) for as fast and powerful as he was. Then fucking sasuke mary sues up the same high speed body in an hour.

Grab as much broken cheese and bullshit for your martial as the magics have grabbed for themselves. Declare that your martial character runs at the speed of light because of his connection to the Speed Force, kicks over castles with the firey passion of his youthful heart, shoots people from ten thousand miles away with the weeaboo weeabow of weeaboo, can run through a forest at full speed without breaking a branch or disturbing a creature because he has elf blood, hears an owl on the other side of the country with his ultra-trained ears, etc.

Because frankly, the typical RPG "wizard", particularly in a magic heavy setting, is a fucking mary sue that has little or no connection to any literary wizard elsewhere. Gandalf's heights of magical accomplishment were Fireball, Knock and Hold Portal. If the wizards want to have Wail of the Banshee that kills everyone hearing it, you damn well march right up and demand that your fighter gets Fist of the Mountain which breaks countries. It's only fair.

Not the person you're arguing with, but it was specifically mentioned that rock lee couldn't be a ninja till guy came along and taught him to better control his chakra and redirect it into taijutsu. And even then Guy thought he still couldn't do it until Rock opened his first gate. Rock lee clearly still uses chakra since his fist and legs can destroy boulders without too much effort, can walk on water and upside down, and he can still ninja jump like a mad man. If anything he's like a psionic character who specializes in self buffing.

If it was about that then Rock Lee and Naruto would have had switched power sets. The premise was friendship and family.

>using GURPS
>ever
>especially for hardcore martial characters
Savage Worlds has a d10 Strength guy with a greatsword equal or surpass those robe-wearing faggots when it comes to laying down sheer hurt, just saying

Mages in GURPS suck as DPS, hard. Just saying.

>laying down sheer hurt
How to wizard wrong: The sentence fragment.

Sure they are, training really hard and becoming strong sounds pretty in setting regardless of locale

Splatbooks are just forgotten tomes from another time and place :^)

These threads are always good for finding the weird little biases about martials that many posters have. Like equating martial with mundane, and then equating mundane with earth based physics only.

These are fantasy worlds, often filled with gods, magic, terrifying monstrosities that defy any semblance of earth physics, and yet, all warriors must adhere to our physics, and not the one's that exist within these universes. None of them can apparently ever train so hard, and so well, that they can leap up cliffs, or swing a blade so well it creates a slashing vortex, or strengthen their skin to leather or even iron levels of protection. And all of it being completely non magical.

Nope, only hitting things hard with a pointy stick and being fit. Thats all they get.