40k General

dont i need dakka??

Take nurgle obliterators

You still need CSM troops, extra demons to summon, a HQ for your Demons and havoks arent' all that good dakka.
Better off with forgefiends

All CSM really offers to demons is cultists, a DP with black mace and maybe a flier.

Nugle incision is very expensive in models

Isn't it like 5 Get Started! -boxes? That's not too bad.

k, well i have all the chaos shit from Dark Vengeance + Daemon Prince + Rhino + 20 Extra Cultists + 5 autocannon havoks + Vanilla 10 CSM. I'm paiting up the nurgle daemon box as we speak. wat do?

Give the DP wings and model a mace on him, paint up your cultist, buy more Nurgle boxes.

4 Boxes will give you enough to run 4x Nurglings, 3x Plaguebearers, with a single 20 man blob for the Herald. Then you just need three Beast of Nurgle proxies and you're good to run both the Nurgle core and auxiliary formations.
>better off with forgefiends
Autohavocs have superior range and will net more average hits albeit at -1 S. For 180 points, ten autohavocs in cover will be harder to crack than a Forgefiend, and are better in CC if it comes to that.

As the other user said:

CSM Daemon Prince
-wings, ml3, black mace, MoN

2x10 cultists (or 2x20)

That's where your good units end. Havocs could be worth a try even if they're bad. But Forgefiend and Heldrake are the dakka you really want.

My bad not Forgefiend, the demons "defiler but better in every single way and cheaper" one.. Soulginder i

So not expensive at all. And I'm not doing anything Chaos related, I'm just taking part in this conversation. My friend plays Chaos so I know something about those.

>A Frank general

Summoning isn't really an effective strategy until you have 8+ Warp Charge and the extra models to summon. If you really want to summon dudes, a box of Pink Horrors and a Herald of Tzeentch wouldn't be a bad grab. A Paradox Herald is an excellent summoner.

If you want to run Nurgle Daemons, definitely get another Start Collecting. Then just decide where you want to go. If you want to run more daemons, a third Start Collecting wouldn't be a bad investment. Or another Daemon Prince (run in the Daemons) or a GUO.

On the CSM front, MSU Plague Marines in Rhinos would be nice if they didn't have an HQ tax to unlock. Nurgle Oblits are okay, as are more Havocs (either run as heavy or special weapon spam). You could look into using one of the Dark Vengeance chosen as a Dark Apostle and running your Cultists in that Crimson Slaughter respawning formation.

Well if you run Incursion the only way to make use of the Get Started's Plague drones require 7 units to fielded at all, though you can also use spawns.

Soulgrinders require you to take them in packs of 3 in Incusion.

>On the CSM front, MSU Plague Marines in Rhinos would be nice if they didn't have an HQ tax to unlock

There's always The Purge detatchment, makes Elites 2+ and troops 0+

are these formations from the Wulfen book?

Yup and "decurion"

Purge Detachment doesn't have ObSec. Plague Marines without ObSec are crap.

I like MSU of shedding flamers or just plasma with FNP.

I find Demonic Corruption does much the same unless you're fighting super mobile enemies.

obsec is a crutch

wipe those units out if you want to claim objectives

More Eternal Crusade, this time they've added hormagaunts.
youtube.com/watch?v=FlcQlwQnghE

Pic may or may not be related.

What good options do I have as Space Wolves for anti-air besides taking my own flyers?

>Helbrute with Reaper Autocannon= 105 Points
>Dreadnoguth with TL'ed Autocannon= 105 Points
Why do CSM pay the same for an inferior weapon on an inferior platform?

Because GW hate CSM

Oh look, the thing I said that would actually make me buy the game.

If you're looking for the Ghaz decurion, my best advice is to stop looking, since only pain lies ahead. But if you insist, read on.

thx.

The other 3 changed pages are just 3 useless aircraft formations added in (each one is just "Take 3 of this type of aircraft", bonuses are shit). Oh, and they removed Green Tide.

Actually i'm preparing for big tournament and gathering all actual rules sources.

Hey Veeky Forums Im making a classic Gun--line guard list, how is it?

HQ
Commisar Yarrick 145pts

Troops 1
Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command Squad
- Powerfist (Platoon Commander)
- Vox
- Platoon Standard
- Medipack
- Meltagun
Total = 90pts

Infantry Squad X2 with
- Vox
- Grenade Launcher
Total = 190pts

Troops 2
Veterans (Steel Legion Squad)
- Missle Launcher Team
- Grenade Launcher
- Grenadier Doctrine
Total = 95pts

Dedicated Transport
Taurox (For the veterans)
Total - 50pts

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Demolisher
-Heavy Bolter sponsons
Total = 190pts

Stronghold Assault
Aegis Defence line
Total = 50pts

Overall Total 750pts.

Anything I could add or change?

>Infantry Squad X2 with
>- Vox
>- Grenade Launcher
>Total = 190pts

Meant to total 130 points, my bad

Marinefags are just generally shitty players, so their army needs to be toptier, otherwise they would be regularly tabled by Orks.

Babys first army, handholding, etc.

Never thought about it, but it's true

You really couldn't find an excuse to shitpost in this general?

for 750 points you got a pretty nice list. however comma, I'd get rid of the powerfist on the platoon commander and strip those options out of the PCS. they don't do much and you'd be better served just using the PCS's customizeability to take a bunch of special weapons, or leaving it bare to use as an extra source of orders. the veteran squad could also lose the missile launcher, especially if they're gonna be mechanized (you're paying for a weapon that will be snap shooting most of the time) but again, not a game breaker.

now understandably if that's how you got it modeled and everything's glued in place, then don't bother changing it up, it won't hurt nothin', but otherwise it looks pretty solid.

1500 of Black Templars vs 1500 of Horus Heresy Imperial Fists with Sigismund - which is hordier and CCer ?

Not really shitposting. Just continuing a conversation from last thread.

It is not really meant to be taken as offensive, either, and it isn't a bad design choice. The "main army" (because that is what marines are) should be easy for new comers, but strong enough to compete with the best, and marines definitely do that right now. So we have a case where even the worst of the worst players have a good chance of winning against "those xeno/heretic scum" while not being an insta-win army, but in the hands of a good player, it can win tournaments.

If Eldar wasn't so busted, obviously.

While you post has merit there's also an alternative way to see it, SM's formation allow them to play a winning army that actually follows their fluff.

No need to specialise in one single aspects of you army, spam huge monsters or anything.

They actually work well when following the codex astartes.

>now understandably if that's how you got it modeled and everything's glued in place, then don't bother changing it up, it won't hurt nothin', but otherwise it looks pretty solid.

Yeah thats how they're all modelled unfortunately, and thanks for the feed back, looking forward to using it.

>They actually work well when following the codex astartes.
It's like pottery.

you're definitely in the right direction with the list man. you got a nice mix of options and at 750 people are gonna have trouble dealing with that. best of luck and I hope it works out.

...

Thanks, good luck your battles aswell.

>GK Dreadnought with TL'ed Autocannon= 130 Points

But don't worry, you get that sweet 1 warp dice and a potential 6++

If you want to bitch about poor CSM having the worst Dreadnought, you might as well expand it to include the worst Dreadnought-equalivant.

>But Deff Dread might actually be worse.

Still got the 4 atk buff.

Looks pretty good actually.

Still waitign for Orks to get more than concept speeches and flowcharts.

>TFW lower priority than litteral NPC race

25 points is pretty much the gold standard of mastery level pricing, you mewling cunt.

Did I bitch about CSM having the worst dreadnought? No, the Deff Dread is worse.

I feel that's their biggest problem. Trying to add so much in before finishing.

>Go back to the basic SM vs Orks concept
>If you pay, unlock SM and all of Orks
>Free to play is Orks, win in game money to unlock different Orks/eventually SM

>Complete both factions before moving on. Probably to an expansion to add CSM (which will borrow a lot from the foundation of SM) and Guardsmen (very generic.

Instead they have a bunch of half finished options.

True, except for 25pts you normally get a roll on a power.
Open it up for a roll on Santic, Divination, Telepathy, Pyromancy, and Telekinesis and your 100% right.

Sisters of Battle pay 5pts on their vehicles for an endless 6++

To be fair, and this is from someone who hates everything about Grey Knights, it's not actually a mastery level in a particularly useful place.

I might dislike their fluff and their army design in general, but I will acknowledge that even trying to view it from the other side, the internal balance of the codex is ass.

What did the new siege of Vraks cut that used to require three goddamn books?

Deff dread is one of the actually decent dreadnoughts because it's cheap as fuck.

Doesn't the Helbrute also lack the combi-bolter? I seem to remember that it was purchased on its own.

Yes, though to be fair it can have two power fists with two heavy flamers. Give it the 2 attack buff and access to drop pods/a crazed table that actually helps more than hinders and you could get some good use out if.

If you fail to issue an order, can you use summary execution or is it only for morale, fear and pinning tests?

I run the three speedo striking Helbrutes formation with dual flamerfists on all of them. It works great.

Actually I have to agree, looking again it's not bad. 4 attacks and almost equalivant in melee (except Initiative) and cheaper by 20 pts.

Problems being lower I so it would lose to other Dreads in single combat (and of course BS, but looking at its gun options, that's not the end of the world)

>Speedo

Autocorrect, dammit.

Alright you miserable nignogs GW hires you to make the game more "balanced". What do you do without making your army like Cyrus, an all consuming wheel of cheese, and the other armies suck more than a black hole?
>speedo striking Hellbrutes
>mfw
Are they wearing the speedos or are they attacking men wearing the speedos?

>speedo striking helbrutes formation

U wot?

>please read my codex for me, I'm too fucking stupid to do it myself

Orders are a straight Leadership test, so no, you'll need other trickery to do that. The following effects modify orders:
>Vox Casters in both squads allow a reroll
>Creed gets a free reroll and a bonus order
>Cadian Battle Group Command rolls on 3d6, gets a bonus order and has higher range; this stacks with Creed's power
>Volkov's Cane causes the order to succeed on anything but a 12 if the ordering unit and the target unit are within 6" of each other (this still works if the officer is inside a chimera, as the order radius OF THE EMBARKED UNIT is measured from the hull)
>Anything that increases the leadership of the unit in question, since they can use the highest leadership model to check the order (independent characters are a big help here; Leadership bubbles like the Commissariat Tank from the Armored Battlegroup are also viable, though the Lord Commissar's bubble is not)

Also forgot Kell: he's an addon to Creed but allows HIS Ld (9) to be used instead of the target squad's.

Yeah, but for 105pts. the loyalist scum get 12" more range and a storm bolter, while Chaos just has the inferior autocannon.

If you want to get really technical, I'd like to know why 30k boxnoughts get TL autocannons, but 40k Chaos boxnought have a reaper autocannon. So from what era are their dread weapons?

A friend of mine wants to get into 40k, but the army that caught his eye the most while browsing the FLGS happened to be Tau.

I explained to him what the Tau's current place in the meta is, and he was pretty disappointed (he doesn't want to be That Guy, his words.)

Personally I just want him to enjoy painting and playing, but having never played against Tau I'm not familiar with what units/options most people consider to be cheesey (aside from Riptides.)

Could anybody give me a short rundown?

>Thanks to the FAQ...
Yeah, fuck that noise, the FAQ is wrong. Tankbusta Bombs have always said that the model using it exchanges all its attacks to plant & detonate it, & the dipshits who wrote the FAQ are talking about grenades being thrown. It's un-fluffy as fuck and all my groups refuse to play that way because it's so blatantly wrong & retarded. Krak grenades on Tac Marines are whatever, but Gorkdamn if my suicidal fireworks-hounds aren't going to pile in with high explosives.

Here's another place where GW outright lies in WD or is blatantly wrong in the FAQ: they said the Cults would ally -exactly- as Tyranids first, then FAQ'ed them as AoC. I won't allow any Nid opponents to take them as anything short of Battle Brothers.

Don't be a dick and shit on his parade, let him pick the army he likes. Meta dominance is temporary.

Just ask why he likes them and see.
A couple of the formations are cheesy (Optimized Stealth Cadre, Riptide Wing) and Riptides and Stormsurges are strong and should be avoided* and/or minimized*

Start with a Start Collecting box, once that's complete go for either a second Start Collecting or a Toy**

Ideally the core of his army will be a pair of Start Collecting boxes can get you a good core army:
1-2 Ethereal
0-1 Fireblade (convert spare Ethereal using Fire Warrior bits)
20 Fire Warriors Strikers / Breachers
6 Crisis Suits
16 Drones

* depends entirely on your local meta.

** Toys can be a Devilfish/Hammerhead/Skyray (Magnetize for adaptability), Stealth Suits, Broadsides, etc. Something else from the codex that's not a Riptide / Stormsurge.

Didn't know we had players this bad in the general.

You missed where they contradicted their own FAQ.

We've always known about you shitposters though.

About half here never play they just regurgitate shit off dakka and 1d4 tactics.

What is the situation like with chaos supply lines? Where do they get all their ammo, food, water and reinforcements from? You can't fund a war off stealing what the imperium has.

Yeah but dreads are so bad in general you can just blow up the other one.

They're easy to dispose of but too dangerous to ignore so you want them as cheap as possible.

Thievery and dark Mech Forgeworlds.

It also helps that they aren't fighting off extra galactic bugs and every xenos empire that came before it over a massive front.

Also the warp which can probably just make that stuff appear.

Oh of course, that's a given.
It's one of the best of a pile of shit, but it's still shit. (Until you do some Zone Mortalis, that was fun with Dreads)

No ranged weapons have ap2 without Gets Hot! Rule.
Vehicles have an invuln save related to their armor value, 4+ for av14, 5+for 13, 6+ for 12.
Explodes moves down 1 on the vehicle damage chart. Ap no longer effects chart rolls.
MCs are capped at T6, but gain a number of wounds equal tp the lost t to compensate, universal fnp and eternal warrior.
Ork shoota boys add d3 extra shots to their profile, Orks all have a 6++ for being fungus.
Stompas are 400 pts, Orkanauts are 200 pts, killa kans and deff dreads are MCs.
Grav guns are gone, as are d weapons on none-superheavies.
Everyone drops 1 initiative base and gets +2 to initiative when charging.
CSM marks and banners are free.
CSMs get 10 free cultists for every 10 CSMs in the army.
CSM rhinos are open topped.
Dark Eldar can snap at bs3 while in a vehicle.
TBC.

It's the warp so for the most part they can just reach out their hands and, if they have the favour of the gods, what they want will appear.

Many chaos marines have seemed to transcend the need for food and water as long as they have chaotic energy to feed off.

They can, and it's why every Black Crusade eventually falters. Raiding only gets you so far in a sustained war effort, and Chaos isn't exactly great at establishing supply lines. They can do it, but they tend to burn out resources rather than set up systems that'll exploit them for millennia, like the Imperium does.

In Siege of Castellax Iron warriors filter the water in from an Ice moon.

As they hold the industrial world of Castellax and force the population to work on making resources like ammo and such

Also the ground up flesh and bones of their slaves are processed heavily and fed back to the people in the form of liquid paste. Soylent green is people

AP1 should probably do something against vehicles but alright. Initiative nerf is garbage.Those cultists have to be non scoring. Otherwise go for it, could have removed overwatch as well.

>No ranged weapons have ap2 without Gets Hot! Rule.
>dark eldar firing off a volly of blasters from a raider
>they all keel over and die
>raider overheats and crashes killing the crew
>meanwhile the best races have access to rerolls galore

>No ranged weapons have ap2 without Gets Hot! Rule.

Well, there does all the lascannons, demolisher cannons, etc.

>Ap no longer effects chart rolls.

So what's the point of having AP1 anymore?

>Orks all have a 6++ for being fungus.

They're only part fungus. Also, how does that make them resilient like a half-daemon?

>Grav guns are gone

Why? They've been in the setting since RT.

>CSM marks and banners are free.
>CSMs get 10 free cultists for every 10 CSMs in the army.
>CSM rhinos are open topped.

I wonder what army user plays...

I play none of the races mentioned, btw. Just tryibg to pull the garbage tier codexes up a little, since Orks, CSM and Deldar are so bad it is not fun to play against them anymore.

Oh you can have gravity in name, but the "rending but better" guns have to go. Just like I stripped Eldar's access to D.

>Buffs only Ork walkers to MC

Might as well just say all Walkers become MC.

Personally
>Remove Vehicles entirely. Give them a Toughness, Armour Save, and Wounds

>Add new classification: Mechanical
>Fleshbane and Poisoned do not work on Mechanical
>Haywire becomes Mechanical's Poisoned, always wounding on a set roll
>Armourbane becomes Mechanical's Fleshbane
>Melta becomes Armourbane at half distance
>Tank Hunter is reroll vs Mechanical

>AdMech robots, Necrons, and Tau battle suits become Mechanical

>DE Scourges become Jet Infantry
>DE may shoot at full BS when moving 12"
>DE get to negate Snapshot due to Jinking depending on the model (Trueborns Snapshoot at BS3 due to Jinking for example.

>Buff Jump Infantry so they're not Cheaper, Shittier Bikes

Looking to start a small army of Skitarii to ally with Militarum Tempestus and Inquisition. I would like to keep it fluffy though so I was wondering if such a force would make sense lorewise.

Local Inquistor has a band of Scions as personal retainer and is good friends with a Forgeworld/Tech Priest so they support him with Skitarii.

>Inquistor + almost anything is easymode for fluff.

well the mechanicus do police their own states, you could fluff/model them as. as for how well they mix idk enough about the armies to make a guess

I never considered this perspective. Very interesting.

To me MCs and vehicles should have different design principles. Vehicles are very weak against high str weapons but immune to small arms fire, while MCs with saves ignore high strength and require masses of small arms fire.