Is it possible at all to run a non-shitty, non-overpowered, non-homebrew vampire pc in 3.5? Or are my hopes in vain?

Is it possible at all to run a non-shitty, non-overpowered, non-homebrew vampire pc in 3.5? Or are my hopes in vain?

The 3.5 vampire template is decidedly overpowered (as are most/all undead), so only if you cripple yourself.

Honestly the only "op" thing about it is the potential cheese from create spawn and the fast healing. I don't get how it's worth +8.

>Honestly the only "op" thing about it is the potential cheese from create spawn
It's not even unintentional.
The text itself says "a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion", giving tacit approval of this battle strategy.
A vampire is a continuously growing aggregate of NPCs bowing to one will.

Don't forget the "instantly becomes gaseous and retreats if it would die" feature.
If you don't know where the vampire's coffin is, you essentially cannot kill it, unless you trap it in an antimagic field.

The undead type gives you immunity to almost all will and fort saves that you'll ever have to make. If a non-undead PC were to buy that stuff with items just getting permanent death ward and mind blank could easily go for around 100,000+ gold and that's not counting poison

I don't think immunities to shit on their own can make you OP (at least if you don't have ALL of them), but it makes he hard to make undead "balanced" in general

...

That feature belongs to vampire spawn as well, which afaik have zero level adjustment, so apparently they didn't think that ability was worth one (not saying I agree with that notion though.)

Necropolitain is much easier way to get it without level adjustments or massive expenditures.

But it's not a vampire. The only non-homebrew "vampire class" I'm aware of in 3.5 is in libris mortis, but I have no idea if it's particularly good or bad. The best thing about it is he could just stop leveling in it at after he got what he wanted and just pick a real class (unless you can't do that with monster classes. IDK)

Yeah the monster classes in that book are dogshit. They should have just extended it, gave it a couple more things and had it progress like a real class instead of just being a way to gimp yourself.

It is 100% possible, with no homebrew, and no change to your crunch.

You don't like going outside during the day
You like bats
You drink peoples blood when given the chance
You don't like holy symbols
You prefer to be invited into a home
You don't like crossing running water
You don't like holy water
You like to stay up all night and sleep during the day
A stake through the heart will kill you


There you go friend, you have just made a vampire PC. If you add in any crunch though, it quickly becomes overpowered and game warping, since the DM literally cannot kill you unless he sends assassins or some shit specifically to use your weaknesses and counter your immortality. If he is sending 3 generations of vampire hunters at you or something I guess its "balanced" but honestly you will just completely warp the game, and there is 0 chance of you not being broken as fuck if its just a module or something.

>Hey guys, would this be possible?
>HURRR UR COMPLAAAIIIIINING 2 MUCH FAG!

You're a fucking moron.

I kek'd

>non Shitty
Sure
>Non OP
Sure.
>Non Homebrew
Nope.
>Are my hopes in vain
Yep.

Warlock will get you close. It's a decent class but far from OP, it's not homebrew, and if you look at it sideways you could see a vampire there. Maybe with the right race & feats you'd hit the target.

If all the players are vampires or similarly powerful creatures, then it isn't op.

You can run a half-vampire from the libris mortis.

+3 LA

Pathfinder has a straight up Dhampir Race that you can just play and take feats in to further up your Vamp game.

>non-shitty
>3.5

pick one OR the other, becuase you can't have both.

3.5 may have a LOT of material, and I mean A LOT OF MATERIAL, but if you want something to be
>non-shitty, non-overpowered
Then you are extremely limited. Granted, what constitutes that sweet spot changes depending on what tier the game is playing at. However, at any given tier, the viable options are EXTREMELY limited. 3.5 is not so much one very versatile game, as a number of smaller restrictive games that share the same brand, and expect you to figure out for yourself which parts belong to which games... or just google tiers.

Yes, most OP shit comes from magic, so a vampire fighter in an all caster party would be UP. A vampire mage with LA will be shitty because LA. Don't give them tons of free spells and that will work out well.

Underrated post.

Warlocks can get plenty of the core vamp abilities; flight, spiderclimb, summoning swarms, summoning darkness, charm, suggestion, turning into a swarm of bats, animating dead, see in darkness.

Make him a martial.

Non-shitty

>non-shitty
>non-overpowered
>non-homebrew
I'd say something about "pick two", but I'm honestly not aware of any non-homebrew ways to get an overpowered Vampire. Which seems weird, I suppose, but it's worth remembering that Level Adjustment is the tool of the devil.

Your best bet is honestly to do what >48187431
said and try to pick together a thematically appropriate Warlock. Or, I dunno, a Swordsage. That could also work pretty well, I suppose.

If you want the immunities and whatnot and can stomach being literally one die roll away from instant Cleric-related death then Libris Mortis' Necropolitan is probably the best way to actually become undead. It costs you what, a level?

Losing Constitution does make you immune to Fort saves that don't target objects, but it also means that you don't get Con to hit points which, when adding in the whole "lose eight hit dice" thing, means that you really aren't cut out for a martial.

Of course, you're not cut out for a wizard either - losing caster levels is bad enough without also losing actual spell levels. When you're a thirteenth-level character - the lowest you can be as a vampire, any lower and you're a shitty spawn - you're still casting third-level spells at best (ignoring shenanigans). For reference, the Paladin is getting fourth-level spells in a level. The Wizard can't cast Mind Blank yet (that's in two levels, at which point it's always up), but they've been able to cast Protection From Evil and similar effects from level one on and can make them Persistent without even using their second-highest available spell level.

Also, you have maybe 5d12 (38) hit points while the 10 CON Wizard has 13d4 (34). Just to reiterate how much level adjustment sucks.

Also, you have one attack from BAB +5 while the Fighter is at +13/+8/+2 and even the Wizard is at +6/+0.

I repeat; as a PC vampire, you are literally worse at fighting than a Wizard of equivalent level.

Level adjustment can suck my nuts.

Taking 1 level of the vampire racial class and then the rest of your classes from some other class?

I suppose something like taking vampire spawn, and going some kind of hybrid class like warmage could work.

Vampire Spawn sucks and Warmage is pretty mediocre outside some very specific tricks, though.

Necropolitan Warlock is probably the way to go, IMHO.

How does vampire spawn inhibit you in any way that wouldn't already inhibit a vampire? It's just a version with less cheese and no LA.

>Vampire Spawn sucks
>fast healing 2
>level drain slam attack
>gaseous form at-will
>all the benefits of being undead
>can move around freely during the day with regular applications of Liquid Night
>no LA
Pretty much the only issues are unable to cross running water or enter a home uninvited.

It's a shitty/edgy way of saying: maybe, if the system you are using doesn't allow you to make what you want, you should try using a difference system? Which is a valid point. But, of course, there's always house rules.