>The strongest DnD/Pathfinder party you've ever been a part of has to go up against Guts in his Berserker Armor.
Guts is sure that you are all servants of Griffith, and it would take a huge fucking charisma roll to convince him otherwise.
You encounter one another in a ruined colosseum. Who wins?
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C'mon, man. Just because you just found out about Berserk doesn't mean you have to make ten Berserk threads every day.
Especiaily one this stupid.
I love Berserk, but if you really need to talk about it, just go to /a/.
This is the first Veeky Forums thread I've made in a while. How many Berserk threads have there been?
Just about daily since the new anime started and the video game announcement and the new chapter came out.
Fug
Well this thread can just sink to the bottom
>4 against 1 encounter
>One sided roflstomp as opposed to an actually engaging and epic encounter
Not OP, but I can see why new chapter+ new anime + new videogame would increase the chances of Berserk threads.
Numbers alone mean little, the guy has stopped a 100 men company complete with minibosses. The problem is rather to quantify his saving throws against D&D spellcasters
>new chapter
Yeah, but he's fundamentally a high-level fighter with a template. Your average D&D party is rock-hard. With four people it isn't even a fair fight.
Like, if Guts is defined by the rules, he isn't an optimized Fighter. It's like how Drizzt (In the 3.5E Forgotten Realms book) was actually extremely weak and suboptimal as a character.
Standard battle plan, really. Fighter ties him up in combat, everyone else spams save or die, save or die, save or die.
RIGHT?!
IT CAME OUT WEEKS AGO DON'T GET MY HOPES UP
>Level 20 party of 4 with 3 cohorts, 2 (and a half) casters
We'd be fine
My character finished his last campaign as a fucking god, so yeah I don't know who this Guts guy is, but he's boned.
>if guts is defined by the rules
>guts
>defined by rules.
The guy has literally been fucking with fate and causality since birth, he doesn't play by rules except that he "could" potentially be killed if he exerts himself too much, but that's literally not plot possible.
Put him in berserk armor and not even the wizards are going to stop him because he'll literally be immune to mind affecting abilities.
Give him berserk armor and sheirke's "open mind" trick so Guts can fully apply his tactical prowess, and he'll still obliterate a DnD party not high enough level or equipped to deal with him.
I'm trying to avoid being weebish, but the character has been written with so much plot armor and killing potential it's hard to hard counter him.
Guts fought a stormcloud with a sword and won.... I'm gonna need a little more convincing than your party size.
Laugh as the level 16 party of Sun monks blasts him to death.
(Party wanted a common theme and picked light. Only the first Sun monk keept his original character while others switched over from light cleric, light pally and Undying light warlock.
Ever since they reached level 11 I stopped sending in the nooks and it devolved into cianxia showdowns.
My wizard by himself would stomp
Teleport a safe distance away, then long range magic till Guts dies
If Guts gets close, forcecage himself then teleport away again
Worst comes to worst, Guts puts a sword through my wizard's chest, and the wizard reforms at his phylactery on the astral plane, rinse and repeat till Guts loses
Honestly any epic level spellcaster would stomp
Well, my paladin killed him sans beserker armor, so pretty well I guess?
Whoever has higher initiative will win, if the wizard or druid or cleric or spell to power erudite wins the initiative roll it will go something like this:
Wizard: I cast maximized quickened time stop, followed by celerity, followed by gating in a balor, followed by maximized reach spell shivering touch (3d6 Dex damage). I then order the balor to cast either implosion (save or die) or to summon a buttload of demons.
Cleric: cast miracle to mimic the spell time stop, cast rightous might on self, cast bull's strength, cast bear's endurance, cast DMM quickened gate to summon solar, ask solar to use wish spell to kill guts, if guts somehow survives that, than tell the solar to help kick his ass.
D&D/Pathfinder Spellcasters OP as fuck
This is not even counting super-optimized characters like Pun-Pun with infinite everything, or the hulking hurler that can pick up and throw the earth. Even a barbarian 10/frenzied beserker 10 (which is not an optimized build at all) might be able kick his ass, since the frenzied beserker cannot die while raging
>implying Guts loses the initiative
but yeah, the if the spellcasters survive Guts first turn, they win
If he's not going to follow any sort of rules when everyone else has to, then what's the fucking point? It's just wanking over a plot device at that point and shrieking "NUH UH!" whenever someone points out something that could easily beat him.
Guts has supernatural aid from various angelic beings, wizards and fairies, and his eight foot long sword can wound supernatural foes because of all the magic it absorbed from the thousands of lesser demons and undead it killed.
How powerful of a god is your character?
>Cleric: cast miracle to mimic the spell time stop, cast rightous might on self, cast bull's strength, cast bear's endurance, cast DMM quickened gate to summon solar, ask solar to use wish spell to kill guts, if guts somehow survives that, than tell the solar to help kick his ass.
Literally doesn't work, can't duplicate 9th level spells with miracle. Similarly wizard can't maximise/quicken time stop (or rather, can do 1 with a rod but not both). Rest works though.
You're saying you're actually the falcon itself?
He'll get all his bonus passion dice against you, it's gonna hurt.
>implying my dorf wouldn't befriend him after they both try to kill each other and fail
Scarab of invuln should keep Guts from killing dorf, plot armor should keep dorf from killing Guts, beer should help afterwards
that's only enforces my point, either he shit on the PCs effortlessly or vice-versa. It's not an entertaining encounter in the least.
In older (I think) versions of DD the Phylactery must be on the same plane as the lich or else lose the connection to it for the time it is on a different plane. And that has not been contradicted since.
Just mentioning that.
>three sessions into first ever campaign
>party of four level twos
TPK, that's what you wanted to hear, right?
Astral Plane or no, killing a Lich just for him to show up again in a completely different location and then telport right back kind of makes this fight unwinable for Guts
Given that I'm in an AdEva game, and my character's Evangelion is basically a two hundred foot tall version of Guts in berserker armor, and has an S2 engine, I've got this one in a bag. I step on him, gg
No more wank then the posters jizzing themselves over which magic spells their character has or would use.
These threads are always wank threads.
>Dwarf character sharing good ale with Guts as they talk about the hard lives they have both led
I think Guts would actually get along with dwarves if they existed in Berserk.
>The strongest DnD/Pathfinder party you've ever been a part of
It's a completely different set of wank. One type is optimization wank over 3.5 and how much of a big dick cool guy their wizard is, and the other is just mary-sue wank over a character that can't die because his story isn't over yet.
>implying 3.5 pcs arent Mary sues who's story hasnt ended yet.
user....
Kind of a stupid question
Highest level DnD characters can be almost literally anything, if you consider 4e DnD that extends to epic destinies where the characters become literal gods, demon princes or primordials
Guts is pretty much equivalent to a really high level fighter/barbarian with some amazing gear, but spellcasters have always stomped martial users
Unless you're going by "Guts can ignore the rules of the game" in which case why even make the thread
Guts vs Drizzt, who wins?
The author.
Any level 20 wizard that's worth a damn doesnt need to roll for initiative. They can never be taken by surprise and go first by default, its a class feature.
So lets make it fair and assume they meet somewhere and Guts being the massive mary sue that he is, takes them by surprise instead of of the other way around where he gets scry and fried.
3.5 wiz is so absurdly strong so lets knock him down a peg and use the pathfinder incarnation with the pathfinder versions of the spells.
Theres two ways this can go: One is wizard casts wish and summons Guts' heart into his hand (this is legal and there is no saving throw), and he dies for the low low price of 25,000 gp. A pittance at this level seeing as the wizard may recoup the cost by selling all Guts' loot after the fight. Or, the second where the wizard toys with him a little before killing him.
Drizzt always wins.
He has two swords. He has a panther. He has magic. And he has Mary Sue-ness.
>(this is legal and there is no saving throw)
No it isn't. You wish *creatures* to be transported, not objects, so it flat doesn't work. Course 'wish them into the sun' is something that does work, but that offers a saving throw and spell resistance.
Paladin who has their Goddess on speed-dial.
Thief who literally stole the evil from the BBEG's heart.
Fighter who's mastered every weapon in existence.
Warlock that beat down their infernal patron and now treats them like a lacky.
Sorcerer who brought down one of the most ancient Dragons solo.
Things started to get pretty crazy when we passed level thirty.
Guts won't have much of a chance.
>Supernatural aid.
D&D wizards don't receive supernatural aid, they give it.
>Eight foot long sword
Wizard casts fly, Guts can not reach wizard.
Now that we've solved this argument, how about we debate whether or not your PCs could kill Elric of Melnibone? (They can't because Elric cut several gods to pieces with pure edginess and angst.)
Round 0 - Surprise round: Guts tries to take Wizard by surprise and fails to do so, With the wizards unbeatable initiative score means he goes second with no exceptions.
Wizard: Takes a look at Guts and knows every piece of relevant information, from the magical properties of his equipment, to his lack of casting ability. Wizard decides to job the fight instead of instantly killing him. Standard action: Disjunction, Swift action: Quickened Dimension door to teleport 1200 ft straight up.
Effect: The berserk armor is now just regular armor, the dragonslayer is now a +0 mwk greatsword. Fortunately his bombs, Knives and crossbow are mundane in nature and are not affected.
Guts: Being reduced to an angry cripple with crappy items, Guts spends a standard action (Surprise round so no full attacks) shooting at the wizard.
Effect: Range penalties ensure on a miss except for nat 20s. Can tank the lucky shot no prob.
Round 1:
Wizard: Swift action: Quickened Fickle winds, Move action: take out cl1 wand of magic missile that he found back when he was level 4, Standard action: Reach spell Shatter to destroy the cannon arm
Effect: The arm is no more, crossbow falls to the ground, the swirly air allows guts a generous view of wizard pants.
Guts: move action: pick up his crossbow which was conveniently left intact, standard action to shoot at the Wizard while looking very angry.
Effect: Bolts are deflected by the fickle winds with no ifs, buts or maybes.
Round 2:
Wizard: Free action: Chuckles to himself, Swift action: Quickened Dimension door to teleport 80 ft above Guts, Standard action to activate the wand and hit guts for 1d4+1 damage.
Effect: Guts takes 1d4+1 damage because there is no save nor can it be dodged.
Guts: Full round action: Full attacks with his crossbow, no effect.
Round N: Wizard keeps tormenting guts with 1d4+1 damage and switches to another wand when he uses up the 50 charges, guts eventually dies after a slow and humiliating battle.
Actually it is, Tar-Baphon used wish in that manner to kill Aroden's fuccboi.
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Yes, but it's not one of the set abilities so you give the DM power to go 'lol no that doesn't work', and it's not a no-save ability in either case. So no, it's not a auto-working legal no-save ability by any means.
If nobody's surprised there's no surprise round, disjunction offers a will save and Guts isn't restricted to just using a crossbow. Beserker Armor is probably artifact tier, so round 0 wizard disjoins it and either fails or succeeds and loses all his spellcasting forever.
This is literally just 'lol wizard powers saves and tactics don't exist woo!'
>Fighters
>Passing a will save
>Wizards
>Failing a will save
Haha
>angry crab man who is almost as angry as Guts
>sppoky skeleton paladin
>asshole with a crossbow riding a triceratops
>half golem ancient hero
Everyone would probably just stand back and watch as Guts and the angry crab have a great big fight, although the spectators would leave after a few hours.
>Someone poked holes in the 'lol wizards win forever' greentext, better respond with smug greentext nonarguments!
Anime stuff is better modelled by Tome of Battle anyway. Warblade/barbarian, if anything.
>Flies up and casts fickle winds + summon 1d4+2 lantern archons
>Guts cant dodge the ranged touch attacks
>Wizard summons more lantern archons
>Guts cant kill them fast enough to stop the pew pew funny lasers
>Guts ded
>"I-I'll go and play my Guts build in dark souls instead"
Its true though, a wizard will probably need to roll a nat 1 to fail a piddly DC 20 will save at level 20 which he can reroll thanks to any number of available rerolls in the game, while a fighter regardless of archetype or splat will need to roll way above average to pass the will save.
Lets not forget that Guts almost always fails will saves and usually needs to get bailed out by Shierke. At best the, the dwarven armor offers a bonus against spells with the mind-affecting which the Disjuction is not.
>Wind wall doesn't work against oversized throwing weapons
>Wizard gets bouldered in the face halfway through casting a summon spell
Alternatively:
>Fickle winds is a cylinder that only covers the target's square
>Wizard gets crossbow bolted in the nuts from below
Who?
Ficklewinds having a vulnerable point is RAI, RAW it deflects everything.
Guts does not have rock throwing unless he's some sort of giant, even if he did 1d8 damage per round that will probably miss thanks to range penalties is still quite pitiful.
Wizard still wins, at best he decides to take it a little more seriously and actually cast his own magic missiles at CL20.
>Someone actually believes Punpun to be a feasible build
Acadamae graduate means wizards can summon as a standard action.
And no, there is no such thing as a wizard that doesnt take that feat.
>fighters have +10 will save at level 20
I know the meme is strong but come the fuck on.
You can get +15 on a level 10 character with minimal investment.
Whole thread reminds me of this
forums.spacebattles.com
A fighter can expend every resource short of hiring another wizard to buff him (which proves wizards win) and still not have a high enough will save to save against 9th level spells on average.
Hell, even paladins and their meme saves get fucked over by wizards come level 20.
I'm not used to 3.5/PF, what's the spellcasting DC for level 9 spells?
>Wizard casts maze
>Gust with his retarded intelligence score fails to save
>Wizard is long gone before he passes the int check to get out
Wizards win again!
Go back to 5e where you belong babby
Its at least a DC 35 will save if the wizard couldnt be bothered to give a fuck about it.
>Guts runs into a witch
>Witch casts slumber hex
>Guts falls asleep and gets coup de graced
>Witch wins fight with 0 resources spent
Emergency Force Sphere. Guts isn't a real threat in 3.pf.
Codzilla beats him in his own game
PF wizard Time stop, move earth, rinse and repeat, Guts suffocates.
3.5 Wizard casts ironguard and resist fire, he can no longer be harmed by anything guts can do.
Dickbag 3.5 Wizard asks griffith for a solid and griffith obliges. Wizard casts Love's pain over and over on griffith and guts dies with no save.
Dickbag 3.5 Wizard casts necrotic cyst and necrotic termination on guts and destroys his very soul
Even the pathetic 3.5 sorcerer shits on him via auto crit twin empowered maximized intensified orb of force that autocrits.
Guts wouldn't even stand a chance
Wizards can stop time, what the fuck can Griffith do against that?
Meatlog the giant baboon bard makes the diplomacy check and fucks Guts in the ass.
Really, Guts is big fish in a small pond and will get his ass handed to him by a similarly experienced adventurer.
That was essentially a lightning elemental. Have you seen the CR for those things?
The fact that he had to struggle to beat one just comes to show the poor quality of his skill.
His armor was made by dwarves you retarded fuck.
I know you just got into the show after watching two episodes of the new anime but come the fuck on.
Guts' prosthetic arm has a built-in high caliber flintlock pistol, he shoots your squishy wizard out of the sky and blasts off a limb or two in the process.
Guns are shit in D&D
>Emperor Ganishka
>mere lightning elemental
Sure bub. I bet with that logic you think Griffith/Femto is a lvl 5 antipaladin.
A lightning elemental is stronger than the emperor famalam.
>He doesnt know the different types of elementals
Pff, the damage is horrible, guns are shit in d20.
Read Berserk, than you will know who that guy is.
And Guts my be no god, but he fought foes who are goodlike multipletimes...
Well, never played any kind of pnpRPG, but seriously, how should I defeat Guts?
Only possibly chance to survive is to run.
And even then, everyone would be doomed...
Lol, The whole not!india invasion is a tier 2 adventure at best.
A gang of Level 8~10 murderhobos can resolve that shit in a couple of sessions
I mean, do you even play traditional games?
Judging by how the thread is going
>OP doesnt know berserk
>OP doesnt know d20
>Still thinks he can make any form of argument
Literally no point to this thread
There are multiple characters in fiction that can fight/kill him without any effort, and even by D&D standards he isn't the bigger fish, because he's just a fucking martial.
Anime is shit
Even a sohei monk would have him pinned and tiedupdelitized out in a couple of rounds.
Do you read/watched Berserk?
>thinks an epic level demigod character isn't stronger than a lightning elemental.
Bruh
this
He's only "epic" in his own setting. Its literally just some guy who has some monsters casting a few lousy spells (lesser astral projection and elemental body being a few of them).
Any level 10 PC can easily invade a kingdom of that caliber.
Again, do you actually play d20 games?
But I don't play 5e, it's my least favorite system.
I mean, what DC does the caster have to reach to cast the spell in the first place? I assume that the spell doesn't just work, he has to roll to cast it?
Yes.
Show me where any spellcaster in Berserk gets near a high level wizard in D&D and we can talk.
Show me where clerics can ress other people without bating an eye, create earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves, summom hordes of celestials.
Retard, there is nothing that needs to be rolled to cast a fucking spell.
All anime discussions should be in /a/. I don't understand why people insist on bringing waifus and waradu or whatever the fuck into Veeky Forums.
You've obviously never played DnD at all, you roll to hit(if you even need to do that at all) or the one being casted at needs to make a DC whatever save
Do you play this game, your faggot? Get out of the discussion and go join the autists of /a/ if you don't know what are you talkting about.
What? Then why does a martial have to roll to attack?
They use the word excuse that Veeky Forums is about everything just to shitpost
The fact that martials need to roll the dice before they can even begin affecting someone is part of what makes them so fucking weak.
>Drizzt dives off a cliff to do a dynamic kill against Guts.
>He lands on the Dragonslayer (which guts is shouldering at the time) and bisects himself.
>Guts turns around, sees twitching halves of bisected elf, shrugs and continues on his journey to turn Griffith into an unrecognizable pile of organs.
Wouldn't it make sense for magicians to need to roll to cast a spell then?
Wizards can literally stop time, change the fabric of reality around them, turn invisible, fly around on skeletal dragons, fly normally, teleport, open doors to entire different planes of existence and all kinds of other stupid shit.
Guts can swing a sword really good.
Who the fuck do you think is going to win?
