What are Veeky Forums's thoughts about counterfeit MTG cards?

How does "regulation" enter into this discussion?

The reserve list is a market force, Wizards is afraid of reducing demand for their game by devaluing the collections of some players

Any good tips on how to get high quality fakes?

I know anout black lotus on Alibaba, but the quality of those seems to be "meh" (especially the double black lining...)

I have also tried to contact Villa Theng, but so far he didn't answer.

Zheng

The freemarket, it just wrks.

Black lotus is the original guy and I am 100% sure he is Delson who was one of the main starters of making fake cards. BL is also cheapest so go figure who makes the cards.

It fucks with fake economy. I approve.

Honestly who cares? As long as you are not selling the fakes I am ok with it. I am pretty sure people have use fakes at legacy events against me but I didn't give 2 fucks since I get nothing by reporting them. The same poeple who would beat me with fakes would do it the same as if their cards were real.

DON'T sell them as real. If you use them to play one of the overpriced bullshit formats (= currently every format that exists), that's fine by me. That's WotC's own fault for being excessively greedy. But do not rip off your fellow player. Rip off WotC only.

You have to remember the time zone difference, the guy(s) can't be awake 24/7. Guys at /r/bootlegmtg insist that Black Lotus and Villa sell the same stock, can't comment myself.

magic cards are like stamps:beautiful pieces of papaer you can collect or use, whatever you prefer.
its a dickmove to sell a fake to a collector, but noone should get upset about you using a fake yourself.

Buy from VZ
He's very good, and Ive bought a lot of cards from him
No complaints about the cards whatsoever

>A necessary evil in Legacy and Vintage.

being poor must suck.

I dislike people using them even in casual, because to me it screams "I feel entitled to these cards but refuse to pay for them", which is not an attitude that's good for a game's health.

>Paying hundreds of dollars for a piece of cardboard that could lose it's value at any second

You're a high roller I see

Okay friendo

>a expensive hobby/pastime is a right, not a privilege. i shouldn't have to pay for anything.

i can smell the entitlement from over here.

Random passer by clicking through the catalog here:

Your hobby is represented on little squares of cardboard. If you aren't just printing them off yourself from Google on cheap card, you're paying too much to play your hobby.

Money isn't an entitlement either, but apparently you are doing a good job spending your daddy's money.

>more players playing your game
>lowering the demand

logic conclusion right there, I totally wonder why the most played formats are draft,sealed and casual.

I have no problem with proxying, but there is no moral reason you need fakes that can pass for real cards.

I think everyone should use those for expensive lands, you can't play competitive legacy decks without having lands that cost 100€/copy and fuck that honestly.

This right here. The difference between proxy and counterfeit is that you're intending to use one in sanctioned events. Wanting a cheap way to play your hobby is one thing, wanting a way to willfully undermine their business strategy is another.

>I pay outrageous amounts of money on a practically useless product on a completely overblown market run by collectors and speculators who don't even play the game and could ruin the entire game if they get too greedy (which is only a matter of time).

Just saiyan

business strategy? How does WOTC loses sales from using counterfeit cards of the reserved list?

To my understaing WOTC is done selling said cards forever.

understanding*

Your free to not fucking play. I can't think of any other competitive scene where people feel that they are entitled to compete

Because in all other competitive scenes people are FREE to compete as long as they have the skills.

>when you show up to a Warhammer tournament people let you pick and use any mini for free
>when you go to compete at a NASCAR race you just rent a car for free from a garage
>Battlebots fully funds the teams to manufacture and repair their bots

Holy shit you are a retard

no tho

As opposed to the makers of the game printing ungodly amounts of shit, making every playable card a rare or mythic and not reprinting nowhere near the amount of cards necessary so the game turns into pay to win, all of which is fantastic for the game's health. Go suck a dick.

If WotC would print enough cards to cover the demand, there wouldn't be a market for counterfeits.

Not the Other Guy, but in most of those cases, the high entry point for those competitions is justified. NASCAR cars require a lot of development and expensive materials. In the case of mtg, the high entry point is artificial. I'm not advocating for flooding the market with reprints of high value cards, but there is no need for $30 standard and $100 modern cards.

These collector's that would get assblasted probably don't even play the game anymore. I'd love to pull my underground seas out of storage and use them in a deck, but I can't afford the cards i'd need to justify it.

Why not just have a print on demand service for legacy cards? Just price it at some ridiculously high price point that more than covers the costs of printing and shipping, but which is still massively lower than the plain idiotic costs good old cards go for.

>comparing stuff made of expensive materials with 0,5 cent printed cards

based retard

Where do I even get proxies, or make them? I want to use some to play with in my playgroup, not to sell or anything.

Because they're either still working under the romantic idea of "collecting being something you work hard at" or, more likely, StarCityGames and other Jews own a large portion of their stock.

>SCG having a controlling interest in Hasbro

Wow. Can you count to potato for me?

I don't know; can you read a complete sentence?

For the past few years, Hasbro has been focused on expanding the base of new players and having them play standard. That is why the game has been dumbed down. This also means that they want to reduce Legacy and Vintage to a point where they still nominally exist, but only as a sort of old fogeys club. Kinda like Ford being proud that there are people out there that love their 65 Mustang, while at the same time, they want you to buy a Focus.

Are you seriously suggesting SCG owns a large portion of Hasbro, a company worth $7.2 billion?

WotC does reprint cards because it is in their best interest, given their business model.

>i am so pathetic i can't even get a job at mcdonalds

A card costing more than 10 bucks is a scam. it cost 0,3 dollars to produce
Throwing money at jews is a rich people hobby? since when rich people is so stupid
Chinamen are fighting the good fight, but only for their own good.

>Are you seriously suggesting SCG owns a large portion of Hasbro, a company worth $7.2 billion?

Like I said, you're an illiterate fuck. Look at the word immediately after SCG. We call that an "and".

To top off your special brand of autism, you also don't realize that even if they don't own your stock, you'll obviously cater to speculators if they are a large segment of your customer base.

To further add, you're absolutely retarded to compare a subdivision of Hasbro to Hasbro itself.

Nice backtracking, there, tardis. Let me rewrite what you wrote.

>StarCityGames and other Jews own a large portion of their stock.

Once again, where is your source on that? Just admit you have no fucking clue what you are talking about and go back to sticking a finger in your ass.

I own my workplace and you know how I know daddy pays your shit?

because you wouldn't spend 150€+ on a single piece of carboard had you worked for that money.

>To further add, you're absolutely retarded to compare a subdivision of Hasbro to Hasbro itself.

Oh, really? How did SCG and these imaginary Jews buy stocks specifically for WotC? Keep talking, you are sounding smarter by the minute.

>live in capitalist society
>complain about having to pay for shit

maybe you should go back to poland

your business must suck if you can't afford anything

in honor of this thread I will tip an extra 10% the next time I got to a diner, you guys must really need that money bad.

>Lives in a capitalist society
>complains on people selling and buying the same shit but for far less money
Go masturbate on your tarmogoyfs

My business does well because I know what is worth investing in, paying that much money for carboard that cost 0,5 cents to produce and holds no value is always a bad investement, but keep sucking your daddy's cock senpai.

>my business does well
>still can't afford to buy cards

I make that much money in less than half a day. If I felt it was worth the money I would drop $150 on a card. Do you have some jew mentality that you're not allowed to spend more than a certain amount of money for certain things? Or are you going to imply that goods have no value beyond the cost of their base materials?

You parents apprantly thought you were worth less than the cost of a condom. You're doing a good job proving them right

Some goods do and some don't has seen previously in this one the value can be gone as soon as small or big changes happen, small changes include meta changes, big ones include bans.

It's not worth spending that much on this, and by the way, you make that much in a day becauase you probably live in a region or country where the quality of life is much higher, but most of the world doesn't make 150€ of PROFIT in half a day, profit being the keyword.

So long as Legacy and Vintage are Wizards walled garden of unreprintable cards then proxies will happen. Unless you're part of the old guard of magic who has played since antiquity breaking into older formats is beyond backbreaking, so proxies are needed to keep those formats from being completely dead.

Legacy and Vintage are dying formats and so it will solve itself eventually anyways. One day the prices will crash and neckbeards will lose tens of thousands in imaginary cardboard monopoly money.

stay mad kids, you have to finish school first before you can talk to the big boys.

Are you impliying that any good have more value than the cost of their base materials? confirmed for rich parents and retarded

Do you have some kind of Jew mentality where you actually think pieces of cardboard costing $150 is acceptable?

Different guy here. Do you know the difference between presenting something as fact and speculation?

>buy proxies instead of the real things
>can afford to play 10x the amount of decks I'd have otherwise
>???
>profit
As long as you're not trading or selling them off as the real thing like a douchebag then proxies are fine.

I'm sorry you can't afford to play MtG. I completely agree that it costs too much that still doesn't justify your poorfag tears. If you don't even make $150 a day maybe you should not waste time on Veeky Forums and improve yourself so you can get a better job

ITT: Morans with disposable income confuse the Art Market for mass-printed sheets of medium grade card stock featuring unfortunate amateur fantasy illustrations.

Might as well invest in tulip bulbs.

>Are you impliying that any good have more value than the cost of their base materials?
I'd be hard pressed to think of the exceptions. Some books are not worth the paper they are printed on, sure. And there's question of things that lose value with time. And various technicalities just as "non-winning lottery tickets". But generally speaking any crafted product should be worth more than the cost of the base material.

Cars definately don't cost tens of thousands of dollars to manufacture. What country do you live in where people sell products at zero profit?

Maybe, just maybe, you should pump your thousands into investments instead of MtG cards?

I always wondered what would happen if the second hand market didn't exist and the selling of singles would be 100% controlled by WOTC while still selling packs for drafting and sealed.

>claims to be a big boy
>his business is so terrible he can't even afford card games

Its a pretty big stretch to assume that just because I'm willing to spend $150 on a card I have thousands of dollars lying around. You could easily top that by going to a couple bars on a Friday night

at least you can use tulip bulbs to grow flowers

Considering the way you talk, I hope you won't end up crying over a stash of worthless paper once your parents won't give you money anymore and you'll end up homeless.

It would be absolute shit and destroy the whole game.

You would have to buy more than 40 big-sized beers to top that, you either still live with your parents or have no idea of what you are talking about.

Nice projecting. I buy magic cards because i enjoy playing with them. If WotC dissolved tomorrow and all my cards were worthless it would be no skin off my nose. Does it upset you that much that people spend more money than you?

I guess you've never been to the city.

he's american.

he gets utterly tanked on a single budd lite.

I live in a city that's formally considered a metropolis senpai, like I said you shelted retards don't consider the fact that USA isn't the only country in existence and New York isn't the only city on the planet, think of this, in eastern europe a playset of FoW costs someone almost their whole pay, in france/italy/germany it costs someone between half to 3/5 of an average pay so and so forth, this whole "deal" hurts WOTC extremely as they eventually lose players because the game is unsubstanable, they don't gain new ones outside of casual formats because it's too expensive for the average pay of people on most of the planet.

Get a dose of reality mate.

>senpai

>being new

>being too much of a jew to buy cards

>in eastern europe a playset of FoW costs someone almost their whole pay
Slav here, no it doesn't, unless you're talking the minimum wage.
And people stuck doing minimum wage jobs past highschool don't deserve nice things anyway.

A full playset of FoW in Italy costs around 200 euros, which is around a fourth to a sixth of an average monthly paycheck, poorfag

All the poorfag competitive scenes.

>poker
>golf
>equitation

>guys, a cut diamond and a rough diamond have the same value!!

Most products cost many times less to produce than they sell for, its called capitalism and cost of labor.

Surprising the Leave was was as small as it was honestly.

Zhang fakes are terrible. Bought some of them early this year and they are atrociously easy to identify as fake.

All these people so proud of buying real cards, i have sold fakes as reals in lot of stores and events, never get caught. it does not matter that they don't look like the real ones, cuz people don't even look at them.