Campaign with Sailor Moon/Kill La Kill transformations

>Campaign with Sailor Moon/Kill La Kill transformations.
>One of the mechanics is transformation speed. Meaning you can punch people before their transformation even finishes.
How can you work this in as a interesting but balanced mechanic?

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Use a system with highly granular rounds like GURPS (1 sec.), or use initiative modifiers like AD&D.

Some transformations are instant [take no game time or actions]

Others take up your turn, but are not interupptible.

And others take a full round [or longer] to complete, and taking damage during it requires that you make a "Transformation Check" or something, or lose the transformation.

If you're going to have transformations, don't make mid transformation attacks a standard mechanic.

Yes, they happen, but they're a rare exception generally used to mess with genre conventions, not a general rule.

It's even mechanically a bad idea. If you can be attacked mid transformation, everyone is just going to go around transformed as often as they can justify, which takes a lot of the fun out of it and does even more damage to the genre-tone you're going for.

>It's even mechanically a bad idea. If you can be attacked mid transformation, everyone is just going to go around transformed as often as they can justify, which takes a lot of the fun out of it and does even more damage to the genre-tone you're going for.
Then put penalties for staying in the transformation for to long and balance it around timing transformations around things such as stuns or slows. Kind of like a heavy attack in a fighting game.

By that point, your transformations are nothing like the reference material, so you may as well make it something completely different.

Yes user, that's what being creative is.
Shocking isn't it?

Then why make the initial reference at all, if your end result is going to have no similarity to it whatsoever? You might as well start with a fresh idea rather than giving people false expectations by comparing it to something you have no real connection to.

>Then why make the initial reference at all
So your players can have a basic idea of what you're talking about. Besides, transformation is so ingrained in the minds of plebs as a anime thing you might as well reference it.

Have it like in Kamen Rider, where the Riders are still transforming, but they're attacking and throwing punches back while the transform finishes.

Or in the same franchise, partial/halfway transformations that can resume.

>attack guy
>oh shit he transformed
> it's PART of his arm that's transformed
>get punched back, because it that transformed part still hurts as bad
>he finishes transforming while charging towards you

Depends on the style of your transformations. Is this like Kill La Kill where this is typically just one transformation before you're in full power most of the time? If so make it to where people might try to gank you.
Is this like DBZ where there are stages to transformations? Make a transformation to stage 1 to stage 2 faster than a transformation from stage 1 to stage 3.

>If so make it to where people might try to gank you.
Ok dumb idea in hindsight, people would try to do that regardless. A better system would make it to where you have "mana" pool that you have less access to each time you transform. Full power takes away the entire mana pool, 1st stage takes away 25%, 2nd stage takes away 50%. Make attacks narrative and shit but make sure mana is good for something.

Remove the idea entirely.

Not only is it contrary to the conventions of the genre (the idea being something only "hurr durr im so smart" fuckwads seriously discuss), but punishing players for utilizing one of the main features of the game is awful design.

But penalties for staying transformed are a core theme to Kill la Kill.

>Not only is it contrary to the conventions of the genre
>That's the joke.jpg.
>but punishing players for utilizing one of the main features of the game is awful design.
user there's already been discussion here on how to avoid enemies attacking you while transforming. Such as stunning them, fight back Kamen Rider style, there's plenty of things that can be implemented so the players can avoid it.
I can't believe I would ever need to say this in one of these threads but
Git gud.

Not even after the third episode. It's like you didn't actually watch the show.

There's been two posts worth of discussion, the rest has been someone else telling you how dumb the idea is, and you trying to defend it.

Your idea is shit, get over it.

>There's been two posts worth of discussion, the rest has been someone else telling you how dumb the idea is, and you trying to defend it.
That's because the thread is young and there's a faggot shitposting in it.
Thanks for the bumps by the way, you're really showing me.

You made a thread on fuckin' Veeky Forums asking for input on an idea.

People telling you it's shit should be par for the course.

Just put a time limit on transformations.

>Veeky Forums is an excuse for me to be an asshole and shit in a thread

/b/'s leaking again.

/b/ doesn't leak, it hemorrhages.

>guy clearly explains why your idea sucks
>move the goalposts around to justify continuing to reply to him

>then cry about people being meant to you on the internet.

Yeah, he's the shitposting faggot. For sure.

Thanks for reminding me to sage.

You do that pal, saves us the headache from having to deal with you.

>Thanks for reminding me to sage.
>Being so assblasted you sage a thread for liking something you don't like.

The mechanic you will use depends on how you want the game to feel. So how do you want it to feel, user?

Doesn't know how sage actually works.

It's the polite thing to do when not contributing to a discussion.

No, it's a excuse to keep shitposting.

Ignore the troll, work on the idea.

What system are you using as a base, OP?

Mutants and Masterminds sounds like it would be a good idea for this idea, it's already designed for superhero shenanigans so you wouldn't need to modify it very much.

Yeah M&M could be pretty fun for this. Tacticool Madoka here we come.

So is OP even here anymore of did the /b/fag chase him off?

Nice quints, anyway yeah M&M is a very good choice.
I'm right here lad.

Anyway how about using idea of transformations using up a mana pool. Perhaps using certain skills needing mana to function and said skills being what gives you crowd control or good damage while non-mana is more or less much weaker but can be spammed.
This way it can blend with idea with each stage of a transformation getting harder to achieve. Risk vs reward and shit.

Your players will definitely be encouraged to transform as covertly as possible, or to protect whoever is transforming that round.

Would you also give some of the baddies transformations? And could the players also disrupt theirs?

I dug up some old examples. Pardon the crudeness.

youtu.be/5XYfMECZcyI?t=10s

youtu.be/TW-KxlqcWO0?t=1m58s

You could make it like a fighter vidya. Every time they attack or get hit adds to a pool. Special powers, like transforming, deplete the pool either in large sums or slowly over time.

In order to reach the first transformation they need 25% of the pool filled, second need 50% fill, and so on.

>Would you also give some of the baddies transformations?
Of course. Maybe just for the bbeg in the first campaign, 2nd having some miniboss lads that transform.
>And could the players also disrupt theirs?
Of course. Albeit how they would do so depends on the villain, some would hide behind hench men, others might use traps beforehand to trick players into trying to rush them, ect.
Anyone who can transform can be disrupted. Even if they are a bbeg.

>Campaign.
Session.

If someone transforms, you get an out of sequence Reaction move ranging from an out right attack, to dash towards the target and having your next hit on the target deal damage to the unmodified target? Also have each character have a unique "Breaker " ability/attack that can interupt/delay transformations?

Sounds fun and corny as hell. I love it.

>Every time they attack or get hit adds to a pool. Special powers, like transforming, deplete the pool either in large sums or slowly over time.
Sounds good, though the party would need to be decently powerful in their base forms. That way they can stand up to most enemies base forms in a way that makes sense.

Depending on roleplay conditions, baseform can literally just be them in their casual wear with them being strong because of "residue" or a "instant" transformation where they slap on their tights, turn into a dragon, ect. Depends on the setting.

Either way this wouldn't change gameplay much, just give a explanation for why you fight so well.

It's up to you and them (but mostly you) how vulnerable they are in their base forms.

What kind of setting are you thinking exactly? Do you want this to be a comedy adventure or something more mature and tragic?

>What kind of setting are you thinking exactly? Do you want this to be a comedy adventure or something more mature and tragic?
Eh I'd say something inbetween. Comedic but knows when to be serious. Characters are light hearted but when shit hits the fan things get real. Like a parody, there is realistic consequences for property damages while your running around dressed as a Chinese power ranger.

Forgot my pic.

Okay so what are you thinking for the premise? Are the characters school aged, adults? Is there an invading alien force, demons from hell, mutants on the street? Are they going to be spending most of their time in the same building, city, region?

>Are the characters school aged, adults?
Characters can be either, though knowing my group they'll go for late high school age.
> Is there an invading alien force, demons from hell, mutants on the street?
I've come up with one idea but I haven't refined it yet.

The idea is that it's a generic fantasy land were instead of magical loot, you collect magic transformations Pokemon style from around the world. There's still equipment, but they mostly function to serve the transformations in some way. The bbeg is more or less what happens when you take the concept of say, the Ginyu force and make that into a entire race. Just a entire race of posing, mighty transforming Orcs.

Sounds ridiculously silly. In a good way.

So are the magic transformations actual spirits/monsters than? Are the characters just collecting various level not-digimon to spirit digivolve with? Items that have spirits/demons/whatever inside them or are they magitech wonders?

You make transformation speed a stat.
The better the stat the faster the transformation.

You make transformations have a fatigue system, in which each turn transformed ticks down. Once the gauge reaches zero, have them start taking stat penalties the longer they go without turning back. Make it so the penalties at first don't bring them below their untransformed stats but if the penalties bring them down to their base stats, have them auto transform. Also if they get hit in their "fatigued" state, have that be an auto knock out from transformation.

Allow the transformations to function as a "death" buffer. IE they have to be knocked out of their transformation before they can die, and if they take damage that would kill them, make that an auto knock out from transformation as well.

Force them to come up with creative ways to buy time to transform. Make them get creative.
Make them think HOW they can stall the enemy when they need to untransform safely.

Smoke bombs, traps, flash grenades, running away and hiding.

You can always incorporate a partial transformation mechanic, which doesn't give the same level of boost but allows for less fatigue or maybe it's all they can do if they decide to invest more points into their general stats than their Transformation stats.

You can have a monk girl who can't transform very good at the start and slowly has to build herself up to full thing, but she's able to more consistently buy time to transform/help others get time to transform.

A character that basically functions as the "Distraction" while the others get geared up and then helps when they need to untransform.

If you're a real bastard, you play that character as an NPC after a while you take it away and say "Alright kids, the floaties are off, now you sink or swim"

>So are the magic transformations actual spirits/monsters than? Are the characters just collecting various level not-digimon to spirit digivolve with? Items that have spirits/demons/whatever inside them or are they magitech wonders?
I haven't really gotten around to that one yet, like I said it's a unrefined setting but I've come up with a few ideas.
1:They are the fragmented shards of the souls of once great gods. Shit went down in the heavens and some of them were destroyed.
2:Magic artifacts that were created by once great mages, all the mages were killed by a cataclysmic event that fucked the mana plane something fierce. Years later people are finding these artifacts are working again and sending people out to go fetch them.

Most of what you posted has already been mentioned in the thread but alright, good post. I still like the idea of having to punch people to get to certain points in your transformation better but the fatigue system sounds like a good way to punish players for being bad. If they spend to long on stage 1 they take fatigue, if they reach stage 2 then the fatigue will reset. There stats would still be worse then if they had reached stage 2 sooner but it's better than stage 1 still.

>Meaning you can punch people before their transformation even finishes.

Nah.

>can't henshin alone, players must hold hands to transform
>more players holding hands with each other during henshin == bigger post-henshin bonus
>henshin activation isn't instant, players need to hold hands and scream words of henshin spell in unison for like 30 seconds
>during transformation players are invulnerable and AoE damage happens
>players can't do anything during transformation
>players can be in transformed form only for a limited time
>if one player is knocked out while in transformed form, everyone reverts back to non-transformed form
>there's quite big cooldown time before players can transform again
>after players return to non-transformed form they suffer from negative side effects which can be cured only with sleep

> 10 posters
> 46 posts

Yeah, you're samefagging through this thread. Your idea is shit, it will only lead to shitty games, and your players will hate your game.

>not past the third episode

But that's wrong. Episode 22, fampai.

Autism aside, seriously OP, your idea is fucking garbage for reasons numerous other people have elaborated on. It's not creative, it's not interesting, it's not cool. It's just garbage.

That said, by all means, don't let sense stop you from running your games as badly as you'd like.

How about being able to transform quick in a pinch, at the cost of not being on your A-game.

Like, a full minute or so stock footage transformation sequence puts you right into "THIS IS MY WAR-FORM, I AM HERE TO MAKE WAR ON YOU IN THE NAME OF COSMIC JUSTICE", while a quick one just gets you an outfit, some durability, and some flashy but mediocre attacks.

That way you can balance needing to save people RIGHT NOW with needing to be stronger.

Season liberally with mid-story power ups, friendship bonuses, and corrupting influences that offer extra power at their most vulnerable.

>you can't honorably transform in full view of the villains
This isn't justice.

Remember OP if you suggest in any way that the players might be punished for trying something, they will rage at you.

>How about being able to transform quick in a pinch, at the cost of not being on your A-game.
>Like, a full minute or so stock footage transformation sequence puts you right into "THIS IS MY WAR-FORM, I AM HERE TO MAKE WAR ON YOU IN THE NAME OF COSMIC JUSTICE", while a quick one just gets you an outfit, some durability, and some flashy but mediocre attacks.

Because people like you don't understand that time management in a p&p game doesn't work like that, it works in scenes.

>'Oh, we're about to fight the big bad? Yeah, I put on my war-form.'
>"B-b-b-b-but you d-don't have time!"
>'Oh, I did it back when we had time, because obviously I came here expecting trouble.'

What's the point?

Seriously, what the fuck is the point here? Asking players to decide if they want to spend time powering up just begs the question of why they aren't always just going to want to always be as powered up as they can possibly be.

>"B-because if they're powered up for too long, I'll take it away!"

*Why* is this even a discussion? You're not even talking about transformations in the conventional sense anymore. Transformation sequences are just visual flourishes used when shit is getting real. They don't have gameplay consequences, they are meant for flare and used as punctuation marks starting the dramatic sentence of a scene.

The only reason you even feel the need to give a transformation sequence depth is because, subconciously, you realize that transformation sequences don't matter in a p&p game, but instead of thinking about it for two fucking minutes and realizing that they don't matter because p&p games are not visual mediums, you instead think there's just "something missing" that you can fix by adding some autistic rules to it, when in reality, transformation sequences are *meant* to be essentially pointless flavor text as much as they're *meant* to be a goofy magic effect in shows and anime.

Just stop. You're trying to fix a problem that isn't a problem, and you identified the wrong non-problem in the first place, and then you tried to fix it in the stupidest way possible.

Just. Stop.

>Transformation sequences are just visual flourishes used when shit is getting real. They don't have gameplay consequences, they are meant for flare and used as punctuation marks starting the dramatic sentence of a scene.
>you instead think there's just "something missing" that you can fix by adding some autistic rules to it, when in reality, transformation sequences are *meant* to be essentially pointless flavor text as much as they're *meant* to be a goofy magic effect in shows and anime.
If that's the cause then you might as well not even call it a transformation. It's a change of clothing. Also
>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE.
Just. Stop.

>multi-stage transformations that only give slight boost in power each but take short time
>various barriers / spheres of protection buying you time to transform
>transforming "off-screen" before entering the fray (anticlimactic and pragmatic)

Yeah we've already discussed instant transformations being the campaign's training wheels. Since the party are collecting transformations they can probably decide who keeps the weak transformations to be the "savior" while others are the muscle that helps them save people. After all, you can't save anyone if a Orc smashed your brains across the floor.

>Season liberally with mid-story power ups, friendship bonuses, and corrupting influences that offer extra power at their most vulnerable.
Now we're talking something, bbegs trying to tempt players into evilly stupid shit by wriggling a trinket in front of them. Not so obvious as bbegs that they just smack him about, but clearly somethings up. Finding more transformations in chest or getting the ones you have upgraded, and the power of FRIENDS encouraging teamwork.
Well, more so than usual anyway.

>adding some autistic rules to it
The irony.

>>transforming "off-screen" before entering the fray (anticlimactic and pragmatic)
Eh not always. It can be reasonable to transform if you know you're about to fight, or use stealth with your transformation. After all, nobody's forcing you to scream at the top of your lungs.

>Asking players to decide if they want to spend time powering up just begs the question of why they aren't always just going to want to always be as powered up as they can possibly be.
>"B-because if they're powered up for too long, I'll take it away!"

You mean like every temporary buff, magical or otherwise, in p&p games?
Why don't barbarians constantly rage or wizards constantly haste everyone in the party "B-because if they're powered up for too long, I'll take it away!" oh I guess we should just remove all temporary limited buffs then.

How are you so oblivious?
Are you just too caught up sperging out that people are doing things with a theme you don't personally like and approve of?

Nice job completely ignoring context. You almost make it seem like you have a point.

user barbarians always rage, because that poster is clearly a barbarian.

>Nice job completely ignoring context.
Ignoring what context exactly? Players are using powerful transformations that might as well be buffs, only it's buffs that they have to work towards. It fits with the theme while giving them something to do while transforming.

No amount of context and added bs changes that when you boil it down you're whining that a temporary power-up mechanic is pointless because players would just be powered up all the time and limiting it is somehow unacceptable because you portrayed doing it with a stutter.

If you're not just trolling then you have some major cognitive dissonance going on.

Even without any new mechanics specialized for it I could imagine a player activating all their different buff spells and effects and fluffing it as their character powering up anime transformation style unless the dm spergs out at the thought of transformations like you and says the character can only power-up with no flair or fun.

LOL

Being magically buffed is not a defining element of traditional sword and sorcery stories. It happened, but generally as a short term measure to deal with a specific situation.

Meanwhile Transformation, in the context given in the OP, is a defining aspect of it. It is a focus of virtually every action scene and a standard, reliable power the characters can call on.

The context makes how you deal with them completely different.

>transforming is standard and reliable
It's like you're not even familiar with the trope.

They always have scenes, episodes, and arcs where one or all of the good guys are unable to transform just for the sake of creating drama. Sometimes this is the bad guy is just so bad he can shit on their transformation sequence, other times it's because they've lost connection to whatever lets them transform in the first place.

The very fact such situations are a notable exception- A specific event within a given series- Implies that transformation is generally reliable, and that a general mechanic of vulnerability during transformations is inappropriate.

>doubling down and denying the validity of temporary buffs in general

Oh wow, I mean you can have whatever head-canon you want for your own personal fantasy world but you are literally trying to dictate what everyone else should be allowed to do with their fictional worlds and imagination games right now, that's some serious autism.

The "context" given in the op was two examples of shows with different transformations. Hardly extensive ironclad rules of the length and uses of transformations but more a starting point to discuss a general theme.

>It is a focus of virtually every action scene and a standard, reliable power the characters can call on.
Like barbarian rage or druid wildshaping can be?

Isn't there even some spellcasting class in d&d where you can take on different "aspects" or something like that?

Except in several series it's the fucking norm, not an exception.

In Digimon, characters often found themselves unable to transform, got attacked while transforming, or got their ass kicked back to rookie or lower.

Vulnerability while transforming is entirely subjective to the themes and moods of OP's game, something you have no control over.

You have the whole summoner class in pathfinder. Kids where using that to play pokemon trainers, digidestined, power rangers, and magical girls since it came out.

That whole class and it's variants can literally be fluffed to whatever you want.

>>'Oh, I did it back when we had time, because obviously I came here expecting trouble.'
Then do a campaign with plenty of roleplaying to counteract this? After all going super sayian in the middle of a ball game thinking a giant monster is going to show up can be seen as "socially inappropriate".

Simple. Transformation is included in round 0.

This means that an opponent that attacks you with surprise, he gets one chance to attack you before you transform.

Any variation is going to be a special case: Enemies with attacks/abilities that prevent transformation,Power timers,Warm-up, ETC.

Anything else is going to result in butthurt. In generic systems like GURPS, longer transformations offer discounts on a powerset, but they are not the default.

Also, in most of these systems, its incredibly inexpensive to put together a transformation protection power that's nearly invulnerable. If my GURPS-fu is still any good, I could make a character that's _literally_ invulnerable during transformation for a single additional point, even if you're a stickler about it.

Careful there user. Restricting a player characters access to a power or having realistic or creative consequences for using said power inappropriately triggers a lot of faggots here.

Roll initiative.

The guys who rolled bad are still transforming.

>Also, in most of these systems, its incredibly inexpensive to put together a transformation protection power that's nearly invulnerable. If my GURPS-fu is still any good, I could make a character that's _literally_ invulnerable during transformation for a single additional point, even if you're a stickler about it.
That's why you make a modified system based around transforming so you don't have this problem, if you can avoid overpowered transformations organically without just going "lol fuk u" then you're a better DM because of it.

Ambush and idiocy are two very different things.

I've dealt with GMS that seem to think that the characters sit doing idle animations whenever a player isn't specifically doing something.

If you're talking about an ambush, you deal with it using initiative. In most systems, it's a free action to transform, with a major discount if you can get caught with your pants down

If you want a villian who can attack during transformations, you're better off speccing a villian with a special attack that permits him to interrupt.

There's no reason to make a modified system when the current system does the job fine.

I'd use M+M 3rd, using the in book alternate form rules and applying Check Required, Distracting, Tiring or Activation flaw.

The game will not be improved by forcing the players to expend more than half of turn 1 for their standard transformation.

If they want to spend more time for better results, that's reflected in using those limitations or extra effort rules.

In most systems I've played in it's either a full action or a full round action to transform.

Except ORE.

Regardless it's up to OP and his players, not us.

>If you want a villian who can attack during transformations, you're better off speccing a villian with a special attack that permits him to interrupt.
Except I'm making a campaign where literally everyone with enough strength behind their attack can disrupt you. Sure a common thug won't be able to do so, but the guy trying to ram you with his truck might do the trick. Just giving someone a ability that lets them interrupt sounds artificial.

Then use "Check Required" and penalize the check based on fatigue, damage or distraction.

Now everyone can interrupt a transformation, anyone who wants to can raise their skill to avoid getting interrupted, and you avoid the pitfall of "Turn 1: "Move action away from baddie, transform." "Same" "Ditto" "Likewise""

Requiring a concentration or similar check has been mentioned and accepted several times in the thread.

Good thinking, we don't want a game based around transforming have transformation be to easy now do we? Otherwise it will quickly lose what makes it fun and possibly charming.

You sound bitter user. Need a hug?

You do realize I was agreeing with you right...? Sorry it was my fault. I have a poor sense of sarcasm.

How about a transformation style that is more powerful than other styles, but you have a hard time defending yourself while you're morphing? You can still bat people away in melee, but it's considerably weaker than other styles methods of keeping people away such as ranged CC, barriers, and martial arts.
Think something where the other party members really need to defend this guy, thus he should transform when others are at 25% or otherwise decently powerful enough to keep him from taking to much damage.

>sailor moon transformations
>interruptible
Pick one and exactly one

>Sounds good, though the party would need to be decently powerful in their base forms. That way they can stand up to most enemies base forms in a way that makes sense.

And that's when you start to use grunts so they can power up before fighting the Motw

>decently powerful in their baseform
Usagi jumped into low orbit, on accident, while untransformed, in the first volume

Which manga? Because I have no clue what you're talking about.

I was just looking for an excuse to offer a hug.

Fuck you I do what I want.

Except they are even in sailor moon, just nowhere near as often.

Considering I'm considering a setting where you collect transformations like Pokemon, I imagine I'll use time limits for only some transformations. After all, variety is the spice of corneyness.

Pic related.

But those three minutes were one free action user!

Kek.
>And that's when you start to use grunts so they can power up before fighting the Motw
Exactly, albeit I would prefer to put the party in situations where charging is harder. Seeing how the entire puzzle of combat seems to revolve around using transformations for some purpose, whether it's to transform as fast as possible or managing your energy so you don't burn out faster than others. So cannon fodder grunts would generally be training wheels.

>They can't transform in 0.05 seconds

Sailor Moon

The manga transformations happen between panels