I know there are plenty of cases of loyalist turning traitor...

I know there are plenty of cases of loyalist turning traitor, but has there ever been a case of someone renouncing chaos/being renegade?

Yes, I know they would still get BLAM'd by either side, but just wondering if the actual attempt has been made

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Some blackshields are more than likely former traitors I'm sure

I guess they join legion of the damned

It's a lot harder because Chaos actually begins to control your brain. There have been cases of loyalists/traitors being civil with one and other. That one time when Iron Hands and Imperial Fists briefly called a truce is a notable one.

I guess quite a few traitor legions get disillusioned with their cause but because there's no going back they just remain renegades and pirates in order to survive.

A Word Bearer champion once got fed up with all that chaos shit. He then schemed his way to offing a deamon world and anyone on it, including himself.

>Excuse me, Mr. Inquisitor? About that whole killing the leader of mankind and plunging the entire human race into 10,000 years of superstition and war.....sorry. It was a weird time for a lot of us. Myself, I had just come out of a long term relationship and wasn't handling it well. Plus, I was on some now allergy meds that I wasn't quite adjusted to yet.

Redemption can only come in death, traitor. Go kill other traitors until you yourself are killed, and perhaps the Emperor will forgive your crimes.

Chaos is like the Blacks. One you join them, you never go back. No matter how torn apart your anus is, you can never leave.

That guy wasn't a Word Bearer you mong, he was a psyker from the Dark Age of Technology who disguised himself as a psyker by impersonating a dead Word Bearers Sorcerer.

>H-hey guys! A-am I edgy enough for Veeky Forums to this I'm c-cool?

>Redemption can only come in death, traitor. Go kill other traitors until you yourself are killed, and perhaps the Emperor will forgive your crimes.
Basically this. This is the punishment given to non-traitor chapters who have failed in some way, or demonstrated some small evidence of chaos taint. For full-blown traitors, with tentacles and extra nipples, this is probably the best they can expect.

I favour ignoring them and hope a lack of replies will lead to them getting bored.

A few of these guys, possibly

Those are both loyalist legions, though.

I think he meant iron warriors

No, their lore clearly states that these blackshields fled when their chapter turned to chaos. You don't get to run from Chaos corruption. It's not a voluntary thing where people choose to join. It just corrupts you beyond all hope and mutates your flesh even if you don't do the whole learning Daemon languages and sacrificing people to the gods bit.

That's FFG lore which got overwritten by the new stuff in the Horus Heresy books.

Oh for fucks sake, which book is that? Renegades turning loyal again, fine but full blown khorne berzerkers/plague marines or other CHAOS space marines going loyal? I just don't see how.

Blackshields during the Heresy are not the same as Blackshields in the Deathwatch. It was a revitalization of what was to them an ancient practice, but the two are basically unrelated.

The former are simply any marines who defected from their legion, but in so doing, refused to show their old legion allegiance anymore. The latter are last survivors or outcasts from other marine chapters that have either gone rogue, or been destroyed.

Off the top of my head, canon examples of the latter include the last surviving Flame Falcon, a marine from a chapter that hasn't been founded yet, and an exiled Carcharodon.

The Gaunt's Ghosts book Bloodpact has a cultist prisoner looking to trade info for clemency.

I don't think it was so much a desire for clemency as a bad case of serial backstabber syndrome. Guard -> Blood Pact -> Sons of Sek -> Guard says to me "there is literally nothing I like more than treason".

Oh I got them mixed up then, I guess if you run a DW game it can happen with the blackshields but otherwise no then. Provided they aren't mutated out the ass.

>Khyron - First Grand Master of the Grey Knight's Eighth Brotherhood

>Leading the 8th Brotherhood and with a name close to "bat" in Greek, his tomb on Titan depicts a helmeted warrior leaning casually on a halberd. The tomb's epitaph closes with "If you wish to grow wise, learn why brothers betray brothers..."

>As the halberd and casual attitude was the hallmark of the Eighth Legion's First Captain Sevatar, and Jago Sevatarion was last seen in Imperial hands relearning his psychic gift at the end of the book "The Longest Night", many Night Lords fanboys believe it is Sevatar.

Probably the closest example to what you're looking for if it turns out to be true, though I doubt we'll ever get direct confirmation either way.

It most likely will be left at just implications, but the implications are rather strong nonetheless. If he's not Sevatar then he's at the very least another member of the 8th Legion undoubtedly.

So other lore question because I honestly don't know but I'm sure it occurred in at least small doses.

Were there any traitor legion marines/squads/companies that either didn't get the memo to turn evil or weren't too keen on the idea? If there were what happened to them?

While I can pretty easily guess how the traitor chapters would treat them how would loyalists treat them? Let's assume the chapter they run into isn't the space wolves, since that's probably the worst case scenario for them.

Impossible.

When you go Chaos, you are eternally the plaything of the Dark Gods no matter if you became a Chaos worshipper willingly or were forced to do so.

Unless you don't have a mark, and more importantly didn't pledged yourself to Chaos, then you can still save your soul.

Rarely you can do so with your own will and severe yourself from the dark whispers. Mostly it is via bolter round to the brain.

Continued:

Though you can still do one final struggle of defiance and try to redeem yourself...

>renouncing chaos/being renegade?
Renouncing? No, once you go Chaos, you never come back. Non-Chaos renegades are entirely possible, however, just look at the Soul Drinkers.

At worst? Purged horribly beyond recognition and removed from the face of the galaxy if the info on them was revealed.

At best? I don't want to sound idealistic, but if any of the other Chapters that were loyalist from the get-go knew about them, then they'd treat them with a healthy dose of distrust. Not to mention that it would be a cosmic shame for the loyalist Chapter that comes from a Traitor Legion.

The Veeky Forums made Knights Repentant are suffering from this by being pre-Heresy/Great Crusade Era Word Bearers that come from a time before Lorgar got his crisis of faith and got tempted into Chaos. The only reason they weren't blown to smithereens by Melta Torpedoe spams was a) that the Inquisitor they met was luckily not a zealot and b) were travelling in the Warp and landing 10K years later, thus avoiding the same fate as the rest of the Legion.

Were there any traitor legion marines/squads/companies that either didn't get the memo to turn evil or weren't too keen on the idea? If there were what happened to them?
Oh absolutely! Every single legion had some elements or fleets acting independently, some more than others but no legion was completely in communication with itself.

The Iron Warriors especially, due to the nature of maintaining hundreds of independent garrisons, meant that plenty of them were isolated from the Heresy. However every legion had loyalists, traitors, and others, no exceptions. The only difference is the proportion you'd find in each.

>While I can pretty easily guess how the traitor chapters would treat them how would loyalists treat them? Let's assume the chapter they run into isn't the space wolves, since that's probably the worst case scenario for them.
Massively depends on a whole host of factors. Which legions involved, what commander within that legion, if the traitors can prove their loyalist beliefs, if it's worth the loyalist's time and effort to confirm it, if either side has recently had a bad run-in with other elements from that legion, etc.

That's kind of a neat read.

I like to imagine that not all chaos space marines were fully behind what they were signing up for. Maybe they were ill informed, maybe they were more loyal to their chapter, maybe they just didn't understand the depth of the awful shit they were getting into.

But fuck, here we are, time to pierce my nipples with snake fangs.

I just realized your question was not specific to the Horus Heresy. Well, my answer was specific to that time period.

Post-Heresy, it's a whole different story.

>Were there any traitor legion marines/squads/companies that either didn't get the memo to turn evil or weren't too keen on the idea? If there were what happened to them?
There were entire chapters and warbands like that. They likely either died, went on a penitent crusade, or got quietly folded into either the Ultramarines or were swept in under the Second Founding with everyone involved sworn to secrecy (EG, Blood Ravens)

I didn't say Horus Heresy but I meant it.

Like some traitor chapter captain getting an envoy from his brother captain who now has a few extra eyes, a crab claw, and a mouth that constantly bleeds on top of his skull and going "Wait Dave, I think these powers you're asking that I sigh up with aren't really worth ultimate treason"

To be fair, outside of the Word Bearers, Emperor's Children, and very particular sub-groups within the Death Guard and Sons of Horus, you're unlikely to see any mutation or changes that far out of the ordinary.

Not that user, but yep. It is even said that the Silver Skulls aren't Ultramarine successors, but Iron Warrior ones under Dantioch's command that were given an alibi by Guilliman.

Why? Because the Gorillaman thought that it would be horribly unjust to lash out on them due to their legion going traitor.

The Thousand Sons are THE biggest examples of this.

Guys never even asked to become traitors. Hell, they were forced into it and Magnus realized that he was already enslaved by Tzeentch the moment the red giant psyker Primarch sold his eye to him for gargantuan knowledge.

Also Ahriman to this day is convinced that he never turned traitor and keeps defying Tzeentch while pursuing his goals of becoming a god (which ironically makes him actually the greatest of Tzeentch's champions due to how much he's trying to forge his own destiny).

Legitimate.

I also just read about how Mortarion, who hated psykers more than apparently anyone, took way to long to realize he joined the psyker only club and all his favorite brothers were shooting literal demons out of their asses so he ran to Khan hoping to recruit someone else who likes sword fighting and ended up getting his ass kicked.

Then found out he was a psyckr, and that his second in command was a psyker. God this guy feels like kind of a dumb primarch right now.

That actually could be a potentially interesting chapter. They once turned to chaos, then something happened that split the chapter between true heretics and people that were having second thoughts. They ended up fighting, the chapter split into two with some survivors founding a new chaos warband while the others reform into a renegade chapter.

They can't go back to the Imperium now cause that bridge's already been burned, so they set up a secret base somewhere and begin operating in secret, paining their armor different colors to either blend in as an existing chapter, or pose as a completely new chapter since most people probably don't have the authority/tech to check back with Terra on whether or not the "Red Talons" actually exist.

Then the war ends, and the Imperium's left scratching their heads about who those marines really were.

He has very good reasons for hating psykers. He grew up in an environment where psychic power was fully the domain of the xenos, its use limited to only the horrific and the necromantic. He was even assured by Malcador that if he cooperated, psykers would eventually be removed from use within the Imperium, and Magnus, who flaunted it so heavily, would get what was coming to him.

When he raided the Thousand Son's vassal world, he was taking the traditional radical inquisitor approach. He was looking to defend himself from psykers and corruption by trying to understand it.

>He was even assured by Malcador that if he cooperated, psykers would eventually be removed from use within the Imperium
Was that just everyone's favourite accountant placating him with empty promises, or was it stage 3 of Emp's plan?

Oh no, it was stage 3. If the Human Webway had worked, both navigators and astropaths would've been out of a job. A big reason why it had to be kept secret. Sure there are other positions besides those two that are filled by psykers, but those positions are a tiny fraction of the total psyker population and usually only function as anti-psyker tools.

Does Iron Warriors really count, though?

I'm not huge into their lore, but they always seemed more like rebels than traitors, in that they were fed up with the Emperor more than seduced by Chaos.

>If the Human Webway had worked, both navigators and astropaths would've been out of a job.
I know. IMO, the new book about the navigator houses rising against the imperium if they found out, turned Big E not telling anyone, from a moron, to a calculated, properly paranoid ruler.

Just one mending of the fluff, and a lot of stuff in the period stops being retarded.
Now, if only they could add a couple more of these good ideas, 40k would actually pretty well-made, fluff-wise.

>tentacles and extra nipples
Extra nipples! The WORST kind of mutation!

Chris Wraight, John French, and Guy Haley are leading the charge. I'm pretty happy with the way things are looking.

Every traitor legion had members stay loyal.

For example, the Blood Ravens are probably a splinter of the Thousand Sons- high amount of Psykers, thirst for knowledge, the Corvidae Cult (Corvidae being the biological family Ravens belong to). So yes, there are loyalists members.

Also the Dark Angels lol

At this point the White Scars had just as many traitors as the Dark Angels. The difference is post-Heresy, the Dark Angels cared a lot about this and saw it as a terrible stain on their reputation and honor as the 1st legion. Whereas the White Scars got closure with their primarch leading the final trial of the traitors and in generally don't care about their reputation.

You know what's worse that extra nipples?

Shooting lightning from your nipples.

Plenty of renegades. Horus Heresy book 6 mentions the offshoot Raven Guard who pillaged the Nostramoan sector. The Astral Claws were renegades before they were Chaos. other HH-era blackshield warbands were petty empires.

If you want Chaos traitors who break with the warp, the only thing I can think of is the Soul Drinkers who got manipulated into a Chaos plot then eventually said "fuck you Tzeentch we're making our own choices". That said, they still got slammed with the chaotic side-effects nonetheless.

>Ctrl+F "Woodsman"
Come on guys.

You think that's bad? I hear some cults that haven't been blessed with mutations yet Have sex in the missionary position only for the purpose of procreation

His case is...a completely different one.

Nah. Saw worse.

You're in a thread about powers that warp minds and corrupt flesh unironically, but someone saying "once you go black you never go back" is edgy to you? Go outside and get some fresh air and sunlight.

Only a sith deals in absolutes

They invented Daemon Engines didn't they?

who is he?

user, tell me about the Woodsman.

The Son of a Woodsman was a World Eater who became an Aspiring Champion as any Berserker of Khorne is want to do. But he saw a small girl whome he would have turned into a blood spat until giving him her doll brought out the latent memories of childhood and his noble ascension into a Marine before the Screams of Hatred filled his mind and these memories clear the haze of hatred and he regains his senses.

Surprisingly, no. You have Talos of the Night Lords, who hates Chaos...But he never, ever expresses any regret that he turned. He never goes "I wish I was fighting for the Imperium." Even this dude is utterly gleeful about being a renegade.

The thing about Chaos is that once you're in, you're in. There's no way out. You don't even consider going back to the way you were, because Chaos feels so much better: You get to loot, murder and plunder to your heart's content. You can eat babies, turn people into skin-cloaks, perform horrific sorcery...The list goes on.

>non canon fanshit

Yes, because GW has a history of producing nothing but the best official storylines and characters. We should definitely just dismiss stuff that fans thought up because -clearly- it'll never be good as what the brilliant minds at GW can come up with.

Are you retarded? OP's thread would be pointless, and ANY discussion about lore would be pointless, because you could just make up something on the spot.

soul drinkers

>implying that woodsman garbage is good

Go back to your garbage alternate heresy threads that nobody even posts in.

That renegade Raven Guard dude, Vaans or something.
He was pretty much a typical chaos space marine, but in the end turned it around and died for the Emperor.

In the short story Daemonblood by Ben Counter recounts an Ultramarine falling to chaos, Nurgle in particular. I'll cut it quick, a Sister of Battle does cause him to try and redeem himself by detonating an Exterminatus payload right in the figurative lap of the Greater Unclean One that made him fall in the first place.
The short story can be found in the 'Let the Galaxy Burn' short stories compilation book

The shitty stories written up by complete pussies who can't handle the soul-crushing nature of 40k should always be ignored, because they're in the wrong franchise if they want sunshine, rainbows, and hope.

Honestly 40k is not soul crushing, it's just edgy as fuck. The most interesting thing about it is how awful it is, and the novelty of that wears off. It's written to be so horrible it feels like it was made by a teen, and is not even self aware about it anymore

I agree, the problem is that 40k isn't soul crushing enough. I for one would love it if the Emperor's Children started acting like Unit 731 and carried out atrocities such as Nanking in explicit detail. One of the weaknesses of 40k is that its protestant creators seem to turn away from any mention of sex at all, so everything just turns into a variety of "kills you". The only exception being the Dark Eldar, and that's because they come from an older era.

It's not an explicitly adult franchise.

The Unfleshed were failed CSM aspirants who worshipped the Emps.

There was Mabbon Etogaur in the Gaunt's Ghosts series.

It should be. The worst thing about 40k is the kids, as they're typically the people behind those shitty memes.

As others have said, there were lots of Loyalists in the Traitor Legions. IIRC part of the Istvaan Massacre involved a lot of those Loyalists elements getting deployed with the Loyalist Legions before the Traitors deployed and attacked.

Not the poster, but my rule of thumb is that as long as nothing directly contradicts your idea, you can use it.

Not to defend silly fanfics, but if everything is soul crushing, black and hopeless, wouldn't grimdark become shallow? If you have no light for contrast, dark stop beeing dark.

Giving a sliver of hope then taking it away by mentioning that things are still going to be horrible is where it's at.

You don't have to take GW's lore word by word. And since the universe is so big and a lot of stuff is still unexplained it is completely alright to fill the gaps with your own lore as long as you don't go full heresy.

Bearing a mark of chaos is forever.
You are damned the moment you make that choice. Better to live with it for another 100+ years.

They weren't aspirants, they were born to be Chaos Marines, but rejected.

Isn't that basically the entire idea behind the Soul Drinker novels?
Get duped to chaos after being outcast for kicking Mechanicus ass, and then declared themselves independent of both.

No, once you go Chaos it's over for you. The Imperium might forgive specific renegade Chapters, but they must almost always fuck off on a suicidal crusade.
Of course it's possible for Chaos Space Marines to realize they fucked up. But the Imperium will never take them back. Their only option is to now fight the enemies of man, giving their lives for the Imperium they once betrayed and which will never know, or care, about their change of heart.

I believe that the 4th Company of the Crimson Sabres (now the Crimson Slaughter) played along when their chapter fully turned to Chaos, only to GTFO at the first opportunity. It's implied that they've clung onto their original heraldry and remained loyal to the Imperium, even if their chapter is still excommunicated. There's no details about how they operate, just mentions of scattered reports of marines wearing Crimson Sabres heraldry.

They'd already spent some time crusading into the Eye of Terror with the rest of their chapter, though, so they're probably not in a great state. Especially since the chapter-wide curse was in place well before then.

Yes.

There has been a single massive canon case.

Fucking Horus himself. In his moment of death, he repented with all his heart, renouncing all that he had done and saught repentance and forgiveness with his father. Of course, he died a split second later, but that's not another story.

Huh, really? I thought that Horus pretty much showed Empy and himself that he was wa-a-ay beyond point of no return when he murdered Ollanius Pius.

>he repented with all his heart, renouncing all that he had done and saught repentance and forgiveness with his father
Where is that whole thing from I wonder?

>Explicitly detailed mass Rapemurder commited by Slaanesh Patrol
... Sounds pretty disturbing, someone should write that shit up.

From the source canon

>If there were what happened to them?
The Battle of Isstvan 3

Emperor's Children, Luna Wolves, World Eaters and Death Guard were split between loyalists and traitors. Essentially fucked each other up.

This is my thought, too. I'd think that if a traitor was powerful enough to renounce the influence of chaos, he'd attract the attention of the legion.

Poor Saul Tarvitz and Ancient Rylanor. Especially the latter. Hoping he's dead because if he saw how far into corruption the EC went, it wold break both his hearts.

thanks for spoiling the book I'm reading, dick.

I think you're missing the point of this entire thread.

I remember an old short story about a battle sister and a marine that turns to nurgle. They become enemies and she hunts him. At the end he remembers what he was and suicide bombs the demon he was serving. Good story, I'll post the title if i can remember.

Haha. Get fucked.

Daemonblood by Ben Counter.
Collected in Let the Galaxy Burn.

Yes, but they don't wank at Chaos like Claptrap Carriers do

>a marine from a chapter that hasn't been founded yet

And then they become chaos champions
Read basically every famous warband ever

This thread reminds me of this.

>1d4chan.org/wiki/Confessions_of_a_Wayward_Son

Spoilers for the latest Gaunt's Ghosts book

It's heavily implied at the end of Salvation's Reach that he has been with the Blood Pact the whole time.

I was under the impression the Night Lords are more just renegades who do what they want rather than actually fight for Abaddon and his goons. Don't they live outside of the Eye of Terror?

Likewise, I've heard Alpha Legion are basically closet loyalists. Like they're the flipside of the Dark Angels.

Many of Night Lords have long fallen to Chaos. With Curze and Sevatar dead and Sahal gone for a millenia nobody was able to keep them united on Curze's path of rebellion. Some, like Sahal and the Prophet, are trying to get them back on track. But their claim to the Legion is as strong as any others and some of those are Daemon Princes/hosts now.
Likewise it's safe to assume most of the Alpha Legion has now switched over to Chaos. Whatever their Primarchs intended for the Legion, and it's likely they were in conflict too, has been forgotten. One of the twins has been slain by Guilliman, the other went into hiding.

What a cutie