/srg/ Shadowrun General- Wagefriend Edition

Characters that they like to RP. Someone with face skills, an infiltrator, someone with magic, and enough fighting skills in-between them to get the job done.

Sounds like you could have sorted it out if you said, "In character I don't see a way for me to go along with this, but I'll be there unobtrusively in the background."

And then not passing a ton of notes. It's one thing if you hand something to the GM (though there's no reason to do it in this situation, there's no advantage to hiding what you're doing from the rest of the table), another to keep handing notes to one specific player as well, after telling another player to go jump in a lake.

Yup, lessons learned that night.

> I want to get paid
First asshole move.

> End up passing a lot of notes between the DM and one of the players that did officially go on the mission
Second asshole move.

> Start stealth texting and emailing
Third asshole move.

The female player sounds highly strung but you were basically gouging her in the first place. Half of your group decided to gouge a player for in-game cash, at the clear risk of splitting the party into runners and no-shows, which would make the run a pain in the ass for everyone.

These are times when you say "fuck it, I'll go but you owe me one".

A decker is better for new players?

I only play 2nd Edition

Not especially, but deckers are core- you need to have a matrix guy, preferably PC (the rules have come a long way since 2e in actually making decker PCs playable in a regular game).

A rigger is all the complexity of matrix stuff, stacked onto regular combat. It's unnecessarily tricky for a new player to go full rigger. They should either go sammy/adept and learn the physical combat rules, or decker and learn matrix rules, not both.

to be honest I was hardballing her in negotiations knowing full well that the deck was stacked in her favor. Either I play ball or I do nothing that night. Initially she said 2k nuyen, and I felt as if I could push my luck a little, then she said 4k so alright, I'll go; it's the backtracking that got me. You're right, I should have said "fuck it, I'll go but you owe me one" but she thought she could change the payout after the agreement.

>I was hardballing her in negotiations knowing full well that the deck was stacked in her favor. Either I play ball or I do nothing that night.

Either you don't know what hardball means, or you're dumber than you sound. Also, going back on the payment was a shitty thing (though what, were you insisting on cash up front before you'd play Shadowrun that night?), but 500 nuyen is not worth fucking over everyone's evening.

Eh if it's a new group I prefer to leave as much of the matrix out of the game the first time around, and designate it to an npc.

I find some players tend to really enjoy being a wheelman/look out/backup with a tricked out van, drones, and gadgets at their disposal.

You try to walk someone through decker rules and their eyes glaze over or the group gets put off waiting for the decker to break into systems.

But this is absolute greenhorn, freshmeat, players we're talking about once they get a feel for the game and the system then letting them tackle more complex mechanics helps ease them in I find.

Especially if they just come from a more casual background. But your results may vary.

Yeah pretty much, the least he could've done was wait for her to be in a jam (like say danglijg from a ledge, or when she's lock out of his car during the getaway) AND THEN ask for the 4k.

That's how you negotiate.

>500 nuyen is not worth fucking over everyone's evening.

It isn't but it goes both ways. I should have said fuck it I'll take it or you owe me a favor. On the other hand why's she gotta put me in a bad position because she thinks she can alter deals whenever she wants?

> were you insisting on cash up front before you'd play Shadowrun that night?

That's the group play style, we always ask for some money up front or put in escrow

>the group gets put off waiting for the decker to break into systems.

That's a 2e problem. Deckertime is mostly dead by 5e, or at least insofar that it's no different from the infiltrator getting a scene breaking into a place, or the face negotiating while everyone else lurks in the background.

I do get the lure of a wheelman/rigger archetype, but I get the player to supplement a sammy with a car or a couple gundrones instead of going full rigger unless I know that they'll actually read, reread, and understand the full rules for stuff like programs, noise, and electronic warfare.

>mfw my game went from barens style mad max to the entire group working with a casino while dressed as elvis

>Johnson wants you to fly out to Vegas, put on some Elvis costumes and whack a guy for him. Make it public for a bonus.

That's actually a good idea for a run.

>shadowsteppers
No regerts.

Can you not set up drones to take verbal commands from only the owner and those he authorizes? Might work for people tyhat can't wrap their heads around some of the less intuitive rigger stuff. Just make sure you impress upon them the downsides to setting up their drones that way.

>First time GMing new Campaign for people who haven't played
>First guy picks Decker, learns all the rules but has some serious ADHD and forgets everything constantly
>Second guy who most of the time can't be bothered to learn mechanics picks rigging
>Third guy just has me make the most powergamed character possible to save him hours of learning what I already know

ANYTHING BUT THIS

I'd suggest:

>Decker that you simplify things for
>Adept (Melee or Ranged)
>Street Sam (Ranged)
>Full blooded mage to learn magic?

May as well call yourself the Kings while you're at it.

Team full of mages.

You literally cannot set up an easier team. Pick attributes, pick skills, pick spells. Done. If they are half ass competent they will set up their own equipment but its not necessary cause magic.

How is Shadowrun Returns/Dragonfall? I kickstarted it and forgot about it until now.

Good.

It's okay once you get used to the terrible, terrible UI.

I was really hoping for something more along the lines of NWN but with Shadowrun, but what we got is okay, I guess.

Newbies though. Being a mage is all about knowing how to balance drain and the need to push a spell to its limits. That doesn't sound newbie friendly.

Sure you're not thinking about Boston Lockdown? Though I wouldn't say that was good, even with that caveat.

How is it as an intro to Shadowrun? I'm trying to get into the TT and wonder if this is a decent place to get started before playing it proper.

A lot of recent Shadowrun converts came from Returns, so I expect it's pretty alright. It's not like, Baldur's Gate levels of similar, though. The rules don't mirror those in the TTRPG.

Returns: Not really worth playing.
Dragonfall: Great with a few issues
Hong Kong: See dragonfall with Gameplay issues fixed with a few new issues.

Returns is easily the one you should skip out of the 3

It is good but the controls of Hong Kong are way better. Dragonfall and Hong Kong are 8/10s for me, they're good games but they lack something that would make them a 9 or a 10.

Last thing: When I want to start playing the tabletop game, is there a recommended edition to start with? Or should I just grab the latest printing of 5th?

Most people will probably be playing 5th, but 4th has a pretty good following still.

I still play 2nd.

My Chummer, I'm in the middle of picking up some physical books, already got Samurai Catalogue, Grimoire, and I found a first edition Rigger Black Book for a dollar at a Goodwill (people seemed to recommend grabbing that instead of Rigger II) any other books you recommend?

Any setting books you can find. Stuff like Aztlan and Underworld Sourcebook can be just as good for running any edition of campaign. Rules-wise, I tend not to use many sourcebooks for a given campaign in 2e, since the strength of the system is more its flexibility. So I take one or two that I've read and add stuff from there as it fits the campaign. Currently, mine has the California Free State sourcebook, bits of Underworld Sourcebook, some tools taken from Fields of Fire and Cybertechnology, and rigger stuff from Riggers 2 and 3.

In basically every version of Shadowrun the sourcebooks always have some kind of ridiculous time-bomb of a rule that's going to get retarded if it's used more than sparingly, though. I think milspec armor has always been that.

These threads have the best copy pasta.

>street scum rigging

Hey, whatever works, right?

Hoi chummers

Not sure if you'll be able to help, but I'm looking to commission a character concept drawing for my Shadowrun character. The only problem is I have no clue how to even go about doing that.

Any anons done this before, or know of a website or anything that allows you to propose something like this to an artist? Preferably one that allows you to see their portfolio before hand.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Honestly, every time I've commissioned anything it's been some random artist I found on Tumblr who at some point vaguely mentioned an e-mail and commissions in the same post.

a bunch of wage slaves that get molded into shadowrunners through necessity.

I started as a decker, in 4e. It's not that hard, especially once you find online breakdowns of the hacking flow chart.

It's quite simple, the book is just laid out very poorly. It also requires imagination, which apparently, most players I've ever encountered lack.

>It isn't but it goes both ways. I should have said fuck it I'll take it or you owe me a favor. On the other hand why's she gotta put me in a bad position because she thinks she can alter deals whenever she wants?
Because this is Veeky Forums and the person posting the story is ALWAYS in the wrong and a huge faggot that should never game again and yada yada yada.

Dragonfall and Hong Kong play like a really good session. The characters are really interesting and have personalities that make them feel relatable. It also immerses you really well in the Shadowrun universe. Only complaint is that the combat is a little basic, but still pretty fun. Writing is also good too.

>Geez chummer. I wonder how you ended up getting into shadowrun.

We had another chummer ask about this in an earlier thread.
We have our resident troll chaser and various other artist we recommenced.

This guy is a good friend and also my Shadowrun GM. He does art for CGL. Last I checked he does sketch comissions for $50.

django-red.deviantart.com

There's one "black mark" though, it completely trivializes or straight-out ignores legwork and negotiations with the Johnson.

Pretty good intro to the setting otherwise.

I'm a resident now??? I feel so flattered, /srg/chan...

Copic markers? I love the fuckers but I can't draw with them except to make maps.

Copic sketch markers. I find them way easier to use than the classics, which feel like drawing with small bricks. I do inks with the copic multiliner sets, and the highlights are paint. I throw in Faber Castells occasionally too, but almost all of my colour and greyscale stuff is copic ink.

Yeah, the sketches are what I have. Faber-Castell's liners are alcohol-based too, so they smudge if you Copic over them. I'm just bad at figure drawing, is my issue. If my constructive criticism is worth a damn, I think you'd probably be really pleased with just using more bold lines and line variations within the drawing. Kinda comic-art inker stuff, basically. That, or just shade more aggressively in general.

Man, I should draw some floorplans that'd work for Shadowrun. Nobody else does it, after all.

No. SRR is at least playable and engaging. Lockdown was fucking garbage.

Yeah, I learned that the hard way about a year ago, which is why I shelled out the 60 bucks for the multiliners.
I have other pieces that have more line variation in them, this one was a quicker piece for a less prominent NPC that I happened to be coincidentally finishing up when someone called me a troll chaser, so it was apt to post.

Is there some sort of breakdown of the major differences between editions somewhere?

Also stealth is pretty irrelevant. There are a few sections in HK, but they were few and far between.

There's a LOT of differences. 1-3e used a different base dice mechanic (Target number was variable, all dice exploded, so target numbers could go up as far as you wanted them to, basically, and you had a few dice in a "pool" off to the side that you could throw in to add to different rolls, or save if you needed defense or something. Really cool, slightly complicated). Matrix has been completely rewritten like twice per edition, over the course of the game. Magic has ranged from 2e-core's simple, everything-explained system to the vagueness of 5e, and there have been points all along the timeline where somebody was enough of an absolute madman to make a ruleset for inventing your own spells.

I mean, even just weapon skills-- In 1e and 2e, you just had "Firearms" that gave you what you needed, and that level of broadness was expected, so you just didn't have that many skills. In 3e, you had a different skill for every individual firearm type-- Light pistols and Heavy pistols used a different skill. Then 4e split the difference.

In the broadest terms, SR1 and SR2 were 90's setting-story systems, and the mechanics in them are meant to cater to the tone and workings of the setting, which at the time was a bit darker in some places and a bit lighter in others, but overall more cohesive. SR3 was SR2 with most of the rules made more complex and granular, so it was the PF-era "advanced mode" system for Shadowrun. SR4 went and rewrote everything, resulting in overall a simpler system than SR3 mostly, but there ended up being a whole lot of other mechanics added to it, and the SR4 that most people play is probably at least as complex as the corresponding SR3 game. And SR5 is mostly just a refinement of SR4, looking to unravel problem mechanics in every aspect of the game.

But in general they all need to be learned individually-- There's honestly not a single attitude or assumption that can be given to all editions.

Now that, I really dig. Do you ever shade with blocks of black? As far as I've ever tried it comes out all wonky, but that's really just because I'm bad.

Omae! I am also bad! No, shading with black is super fraggin' tough.
All of my inktober work was a fucking mistake and it is embarrassing to post it here but I have to illustrate my point.

HOW DO
its all bad.

Well, if it's that difficult for everybody. Though that style, if you want to keep messing with it, might be more "Shadowrun" than the usual. I feel like crazy stark shading just suits the setting, y'know?

I'll work on it a little over the next month, I appreciate the suggestion. And you know me,
>tr0g ch4s3r's
always ghosting around in /srg/, I'll toss up stuff as I finish it.

I've been a touch more intermittent lately, but I've usually been pretty regular. I'll probably make myself useful and draw up some research station maps sooner or later.

hey chummers make up some matrix shadow communites

I have 3 (based on existing net communities because its easy)

Vpan.ru
>it looks like a floating island with a castle. Each room in the castle is dedicated to a different general topic where people can converse and discuss their interest. This can range from japanese trids to the best way to dispose of a body.
uses
>piracy, hiring runners (mostly hackers), fencing
Fallingdown.com
>a blogging site that lets you create you're own room. has a strong anti establishment bent. Social justice is the name of the game as is eco terrorism, fuck wage slaves, exposing the truths of the world to the unwashed masses, and most importantly letting people know how you feel. Also there is a huge amount of BTLs just waiting to be discovered on the site.
uses
>hiring runners(shamans, anyone with an anticorps bent), knowledge on the corps (biased)
reddit.exe
>while not technically a matrix site it is a peer to peer program that allows its users to discuss and rate other users. Its a perfect way for criminals to communicate anonymously if they also want to have a user name and create an account.
uses
>communicating, networking,

Veeky Forums.btl
Not actually a site, it is a pervasive BTL that takes questions asked of it and matches that question to a random insulting response with the same keywords in it.

Typical questions and responses:

Q: This is mai waifu. [inline pic attached] What do you think of her?
A: Not bad but let me tell you about mai waifu.
A: your waifu a shit. A SHIIIIIT.
A: lol, gay

Q: I herd there was a firefigh over at the ol McBane plce?
A: Yes, the fire rises.
A: only one of you on this plane!
A: For you.

>am the first player
I'm not actually in your group, but yeah.
People come to me for rules for games because I learn everything for all games I try to play, but I forget pretty much everything constantly.
It sucks.

>I want to get paid for going on a run
It's his job, man. She could have offered him something else. I'll pay for drinks when we get home. I'll owe you one. Whatever.

>End up passing notes between people.
Perfectly fine behaviour. Your character is not with the rest of the group. And the player he contacted could reveal the messages if he wanted to.

>Texting
Same as above.

I've read the basics of Shadowrun 5e and it seems a bit complicated but I love the setting and I want to play Shadowrun. The only problem I have is my group are filthy casuals and teaching them a new system takes ages so before I get into anything I want to ask is 5e the best or should I look into another?

>The only problem I have is my group are filthy casuals and teaching them a new system takes ages so before I get into anything I want to ask is 5e the best or should I look into another?

4e/5e is generally the big divide with Shadowrun. They are both pretty good games with utterly terrible hacking rules.

4e tends to be a bit more high power. Starting PCs are ex-spec ops or nova-hot hackers.

5e tends more towards the lower end, with more Gangers or ex-spiders.

It's a matter of personal taste. I personally prefer 4e but 5e isn't a bad starting point.

Thanks I think 5e will be easier to get rulebooks for and I do like gang level street brawls.

Any tips about DM/GM/Whatevering the game?

Plan a very short "campaign" in with a couple of related runs, just to get the players familiar with the system.

I'd suggest not bothering with the Matrix either, unless one of your players absolutely wants to play a decker.

Yeah, much more than D&D expect people to go completely sideways with your plans.

It's the nature of heist movies to have people come up with strange plans and shadowrun is no exception. You'll really need to know how to roll with the punches as a GM when they start asking 'Hey, where is the local substation?' and 'Do the local guards eat in-house or order delivery?' in order to have Cunning Plans.

I'd also pay a lot of attention to the Magic rules. The big issue with Shadowrun magic is that it DOES have plenty of counters but they are all 'This makes your life harder' rather than base difficulty. A GM who knows the magic rules makes a mage a lot more reasonable. Pay careful attention to the Warding rules and remember that Astral Security is a booming business in Shadowrun.

That and 'If a mage can't see it with his NATURAL VISION, he can't spell it'. That single rule has done more to let SWAT teams take down mages than any other rule in the game. Smoke and Clear. Mage can't use night vision/ultrasound goggles.

Get 5e. The editing is terrible and you can get a headache trying to cross reference stuff, but anyone who suggests the fucking trainwreck that is 4th is utterly pants on head

Show me on the doll where 4e touched you.

Sup guys.

I'd figure I'd ask again because I didn't get the response I wanted last thread Yes, yes.. Whine whine attention whore

Are there any adventures/missions/runs/ect that are really good in any edition that you would reccomend using?
Planning on running 5e.

Hey guys, 5e question.
Street level or Street scum?
What's the difference and which gives better ganger level feel?

They're both fucking terrible, but street scum actually punishes everyone equally. Street Level just encourages you to make characters that don't depend on nuyen like adepts or mages.

As far as I know, street level mostly hurts archetypes that rely on money, such as street samurai, deckers, riggers, etc. Mages and such are affected, byt not to nearly the same extent. Probably go with street scum.

Do GMs not come up with their own runs anymore??? I just take inspiration from guy ritchie films and go from there.

Streel Level mostly limits what cash you have available at chargen, which is a detriment to some characters concepts while leaving others completely untouched, which leads to stupidly unbalanced parties.

Street Scum limits starting resources across the board without favoritism. If you want to go with a low level campaign, pick Street Scum rules.

I always make up my own runs/jobs. Even if they are shitty or not. The only thing I look up is like weapons, vehicles, perhaps characters for inspiration etc.

MAybe, maybe not. Was not planning on running it as written, obviously.

Just thought it'd ask seeing as I have not alot of experience in the setting or system yet. Plus, my imagination works best when under duress (i.e. my players asking me stuff on the spot) rather then when im calm and relaxed

The first user that replied to him, I'm a very reactionary GM and work my magic the best when I improv, so thats why I come up with like a outline for the mission and flesh out the important details but everything else I kinda adapt and come up on the spot depending on what the party does.

Why aren't dirty bombs used more in Shadowrun? Winternight managed to make actual nukes, so we know it's possible for terrorist groups to get their hands on radioactive material.
According to the explosives rules in Run&Gun, an explosion that kills people creates a permanent background count. If a dirty bomb was used to generate that explosion, then presumably the background count would be Toxic.
I mean, just think about that for a second. A permanent toxic background count means that land can basically never be used again, unless you don't mind being sterilized by radiation and then eaten by an angry spirit of the atom. Plus, there's always the possibility of the radiation causing mages to go toxic. What other weapon is capable of killing people and creating supervillains at the same time?

Because the writers either did not think of it, or because they did and decided "Nah, Nanobots and virusi are much more kewl"

>A permanent toxic background count means that land can basically never be used again
Until it gets physically and geomantically cleansed, anyway. Is Cleansing still a metamagic in 5e?

Question: how did the alliance for allah get set up? Did it consist of the entire middle east? If so, what the hell convinced Saudi Arabia and Iran to work together on something?
Also, on a somewhat related note, how are the various left wing kurdish groups doing? Did the PKK finally get to set up the People's Republic of Kurdistan?
Not really that different than the assault rifle duct taped to a quadcopter of normal riggers.

>points at wallet

But seriously, both 3rd and 5th are way better.
Just like D&D, imagine that

Winternight wasn't exactly a typical thing.

>Why not both?

>I just take inspiration from guy ritchie films and go from there.
10/10

SR history diverged from current timeline in 1990.

Yeah, it's a thing, but given how uncommon mages in general are, one can assume mages with metamagics are even more uncommon.
Though that does give me kinda a neat run idea. Protect the corp wagemage from angry toxic spirits while he cleanses a toxic background count.

That is a pretty good idea.
Bonus points if it turns into an extraction after the cleansing