/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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>Question
Could you try not fucking up this thread with your autism?

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no

Did Chronicles make any improvements over Word or is it a literal copy/paste because of licensing?

Last thread was a fucking trainwreck. Can we talk about Scion or something?

CofD is essentially nWoD 2e; they've changed stuff like xp costs and how various powers work and added a lot of new mechanics. It's not super noticeable but it's a lot better overall.

Nah, it's identical.

Is there any news about the second edition?

Have some Open Development:

>theonyxpath.com/the-world-scion-second-edition-open-development/
>theonyxpath.com/pantheons-scion-second-edition-open-development/
>theonyxpath.com/scion-second-edition-a-new-calling/
>theonyxpath.com/the-bindings-of-fate/

Yes. It's a massive jump in quality over nWoD (total rewrite/reboot of all Merits, flat XP system, social influence system, investigation, chases, crafting/planning/leadership, Aspirations and ways to gain XP from fucking up, total revamp of the combat system, new extended action rules make extended actions not pointless garbage) and a pretty solid boost from GMC. Investigation subsystem in particular is really good.

>but it's a lot better overall

Well, that's a matter of taste. I hated most of the stuff they added to CofD and strongly dislike the direction my favorite splat is going. It's different enough that it's worth checking out, but it's also different enough that, IMO, it shouldn't just been seen as an upgraded version of what came before. Treat it more like the difference between oWoD and nWoD.

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but shouldn't Scion be in Exalted threads?

Is Changeling The Lost getting updated ever, or is it just sort of in limbo now?

Anything you don't like can easily be ignored and CofD is worth it if only for revised xp costs, the changes to Morality/Integrity, and the buff that Vampires and Werewolves got.

What's your favorite line and what don't like about it?

Why on earth would it go there?

The new edition is literally playable now: theonyxpath.com/changeling-the-lost-tinkering-and-toying/

>Why on earth would it go there?

Same system?

>scion
>belongs in exalted
???

>new mechanics engine literally built for it
>same as Exalted

???

I get that it doesn't really belong here, but it hasn't supported an independent thread in the past and nobody's ever complained before.

Yeah. As if a story about godlike heroes fits in WoD.

New werewolf is pretty good.

I know about the playtest, but it's pretty far from finished and polished.

At a stretch, they're both urban fantasy. It has more in common with CofD than Exalted, but if it'll really cause a big stink I'll shut up about it. I just figure a game that isn't out yet can't handle its own thread.

This is sarcasm, right

It was never the same system.

Oh, hey, you. Haven't seen you around in a while.

Also, it's still being worked on. They're just slow. It's not like they're going to drop it.

I want to kiss that girl

>Also, it's still being worked on. They're just slow. It's not like they're going to drop it.

Like everything they do.

I bet you even want to hold hands with her. Pervert.

>What's your favorite line and what don't like about it?

Changeling. It's mostly a lot of little things adding up. I feel that unlocking Kith from Seeming dilutes the feel of those Seemings, for example, while the special ways each gains and loses Clarity, while not a bad idea on the whole, feel silly and gimmicky. Not every Darkling is the Punisher.

I'll also clarify that I don't think CofD is a bad game. It's an issue of personal preference, which is why I compared it to the oWoD/nWoD split. We now have three rules systems for what is, by and large, the same game, and that's a good thing since it means as many groups as possible can be accommodated. And that's why it's worth checking all three out before deciding which, or which parts of each, to use, rather than just playing the newest version because that's what other people have decided is the best.

>literally playable
Only in a half-assed kind of way
Especially given the woefully unbalanced nature of many Contracts

I just want it finished and polished and dead-tree version.

Those are pretty good points. I really like a lot of the ideas in the new game, even if I don't think it is ready to play yet.

Yeah, I'm getting antsy. I don't think I've heard anything new about the new changeling for half a year.

Don't expect anything major until after Gen Con, but hopefully we should have it before the year is over.

At least we got some Dark Eras content for all the lines?

>Yeah, I'm getting antsy. I don't think I've heard anything new about the new changeling for half a year.

I suppose this is what we get for having it all dumped on us in one huge load, rather than piecemeal once every few weeks, as we got with Mage and Werewolf.

>At least we got some Dark Eras content for all the lines?

Did they cram in Beast somewhere?

It's getting the Reconstruction-era American South at some point and unless the "What's up with Dark Eras?" panel coming up at Gen Con is completely pointless it'll likely be in Dark Eras 2 next year.

T-thanks, sempai

>Reconstruction-era American South
B-b-but it's totally not a metaphor for racism you guise.

I'm still a fan of the Bronze Age Collapse idea that was floated on the forums.

Link?

I don't really like 2e's take on Seemings.
The disconnect from Kith is fine by me, but it just seems haphazardly forced into a "this was your escape" element.

It's such a massive part of your character, and your appearance, but it wasn't defined until the very moment you escaped Arcadia? Especially when it ties in closely to how your Kith appears.

I can kind of get it, but it still feels disjointed and haphazard.

My girlfriend

>I don't really like 2e's take on Seemings.
>The disconnect from Kith is fine by me, but it just seems haphazardly forced into a "this was your escape" element.

Yeah. I agree here. It's way too limiting.
The mechanics are fine, great even, but I don't like the pidgeonholing it does.

It was literally just that; Beast in the Bronze Age Collapse. Run around as a mythical Greek monster as civilization crumbles around the Mediterranean.

I feel like a lot of your dislike is coming from a place of not understanding the changes, and comparing them to what came before instead of letting them stand on their own.

Seemings shouldn't get their feeling from their Kiths to begin with, and I feel that showing how different Seemings can interpret the same Kith highlights the Seemings, instead of diluting them.
>Not every Darkling is the Punisher
That's not really their theme in 2e to begin with, but you're doing what I did when I first saw the changes and didn't like how my Fairest character would need to be changed.
You're looking at it as if everything is going to stay the way that it did. Darklings are now all about the darkness and betrayal and fear of betrayal. That's the hat they wear. If you had a Darkling in 1e, they won't necessarily be a Darkling in 2e. My concern with the Fairest was "what if I don't want to be a leader, if I ignore that, I miss out on my special traits". But that's their hat. If my character isn't someone who's durance was escaped through rallying the peasantry, then he's not a Fairest anymore. He's still the same character, but the thing he's called is different. And, it's also worth noting that a lot of people in 1e used the Dual Kith merit to avoid seeming-specific Kiths to begin with; my Fairest was a Succubus, which if I remember was a Darkling kith (and Darkling might now fit him, or maybe Beast).

>We now have three rules systems for what is, by and large, the same game, and that's a good thing since it means as many groups as possible can be accommodated.
Two and a half at best. There's nothing different between the GMC rules and the full CofD rules, other than a few additions. And that's not really unusual when a game gets a new rules set. oWoD had four, and Shadowrun is on its fifth. Not to mention D&D, which has new editions that are practically new games.

I definitely sympathize. My old favorite Changeling character was a Beast and would most likely be either a Fairest or a Darkling in 2e and that takes some adjustment. I actually hated Changeling 2e until David himself talked me down in one of these threads.

qt demon

I doubt we'll see much in the way of "balancing", to be honest. Though I also feel like people rarely mean balance when they say that. What do you feel is "unbalanced" about it?

It's only been a few months since the playtest material was released.

It was a backer stretch goal that people have already paid for, so yes.

I feel like there are so much better fits.
Like, for instance, Denmark during the Geats era. Or Classical Greece. But so many of the Dark Eras feel ill fitting.

What's wrong with the Seeming being your escape? Also, the Seeming write ups all talk about what your life was like before your Durance. For most of them its not just how you escaped, its how you ended up in Arcadia in the first place. For instance, for Beast, a housewife fleeing from her stifling marriage ends up in Arcadia, and once more flees from captivity and becomes a Beast. Like your Seeming is who you are and it culminates in your escape. You were always bestial, but escaping the Durance is when it culminated.

Though, yeah, the Kith write ups do treat it as if it has such a big impact on your appearance.

You hate everything until something changes your mind.
Much like Beast, I kind of hated it until I argued with people who hated it more and I "understood". I don't think they've completely got it the way they want, but I can at least see it. It needs polish, but its there.

My character is a transman who was promised he could become a Prince. He's got a Beast aesthetic going on, but he's a faun with white-gold fur and platinum horns, so I went with Succubus Fairest. So much of his schtick is looking like this gorgeous androgynous model, but being a foul mouthed lonely little hobo who bums around sleeping with a different boyfriend every week and eating out their cupboards. If everyone was looking to him to be a Leader, he'd drop in Clarity like a rock.
But going an actual Beast fits someone who ran away from their dyke hating parents, became the boy toy of a fairy tale monster, and broke away from a perfect life as a caged pet and still can't stand being caged or held down. Darkling also might work, for someone who feels betrayed and can't keep relationships out of fear of commitment.
I made Aiden for F-list like two years ago.
I just think of his backstory and personality a lot.
He's one of my most developed characters and I haven't even played him
I wish I had the motivation to do things...

Bitch I don't need these tears.

>What's wrong with the Seeming being your escape?

In theory? Nothing. But the stereotypes they have for them are a bit too tight.

While talking about seemings, what seeming would a changeling be who escaped on wits and hard work alone?
Like digging a tunnel, or simply learning all the patterns of how all the guards move, their rotations and all, and sneaked out during an opportune moment when noone was watching.

>What's wrong with the Seeming being your escape?
Your escape defining your appearance, ignoring your actual Durance, annoys me.

e.g.
A Beast didn't really do anything animal-ey until he escaped, and even then he might have just gathered the balls and overturned his Keeper's table in the middle of dinner, and marched out of Arcadia.

Totally unrelated guy here, but *WHERE ARE THE CHASE RULES*. I know that they're a thing, but I can't for the fucking life of me ever find where they are when I go looking. And like, fuck me I go looking often.

>transman faun

You have my attention.

My favorite Changeling was Lionheart, who iirc was a Beast Hunterheart. His Durance was an unending fantasy war for their Keeper's amusement and he organized the changelings into a suicidal revolt, but ran away at the last second and used everyone's deaths to cover his escape. Cue massive survivor's guilt fueling a rise to power with the end goal of leading everyone to die in glorious battle against the Fae. He wound up killing another player character before being assassinated by the rest of the motley.

Would he still be a Fairest, or does he become a Darkling in 2e?

In 2e your Durance shapes your Kith, rather than both Seeminf and Kith.

Like I said, I feel like you're looking at it wrong. They're tight if you look at it like 1e, but I feel like in some ways they're broader and have more room for personal interpretation.

That does sound Beast like. Going all Solid Snake.

It isn't ignoring the actual Durance. It's less about actions and more about personality. Though I do feel that calling them the same thing as the 1e Seemings is probably part of the problem. If they had different names entirely, there'd be no real issue.
>he might have just gathered the balls and overturned his Keeper's table in the middle of dinner, and marched out of Arcadia.
Sounds more like an Ogre, to me.
The type of person who would dig a tunnel or go all Solid Snake is the type of person who becomes a Beast. The type of person who flips tables is the type of person to become an Ogre. Their time in Arcadia was a catalyst for that solidifying, but not the cause. But, also, as points out, Durance is shaped by Kith, not Seeming. It's just that, well, the kind of person who will eventually escape in a bestial way is the kind of person that becomes something bestial. It's not like cause and effect are temporally linear in Arcadia anyway.

i.imgur.com/YYleLgT.png

>You have my attention.
f-list.net/c/aiden satyrnine
I really need to remake the profile/character. I haven't played him so I haven't touched the profile.

And?
A Darkling Levinquick is going to look very different to a Wizened Levinquick. What's more, their appearance will mostly say nothing about their Durance more than how they escaped it.

However until they both escaped, they could have looked identical. Which is what I find laughable.

>That does sound Beast like. Going all Solid Snake.

No, Beast is denying ones humanity, ignoring the rules, and so on.

Just because a famous character is called snake, it doesn't mean that working at something slowly, methodically, and logically is beast-like.

That's not true. Two Levinquicks will look different if one had a Durance in a nightmare of chrome and neon and the other was in an unending Victorian night. Look past the mechanics and remembee that you're writing a story.

Solid Snake's entire character arc is based around the fact that he can't live a normal life because he's got the battlefield in his blood, and his blood on the battlefield. The plot of MGS is that he can't retire, the plot of MGS2 is him trying to keep Raiden from becoming him, MGS3 is showing that its literally in his DNA, and MGS4 has him unable to rest because the fighting isn't finished, even though he's an old man.
I'm not saying he'd be a Beast because he's named Snake.
I'm saying he's a Beast because he's unable to live in conventional society. His heart is on the battlefield. While its true that you can play without a single kill, it's clear that the "canon" is that Snake has indeed killed many people and may in fact enjoy the killing and the fighting.

That's not really true. In fact, none of it is. You're failing to understand it (which is exactly the thing I was talking about at the tail end of the last thread). They wouldn't look the same regardless. Hell, even if they were the same Seeming, they wouldn't look the same. Your appearance also doesn't (necessarily) change radically when you escape.

>Two Levinquicks will look different if one had a Durance in a nightmare of chrome and neon and the other was in an unending Victorian night
These could also both be Darklings. Or Wizened.

>unending victorian night
Man, I just imagined a night of storms, and every individual raindrop and lightning strike is an abducted person. I wonder what it feels like striking down on the ground at insane speeds.

>Solid Snake's entire character arc is based around the fact that he can't live a normal life because he's got the battlefield in his blood, and his blood on the battlefield. The plot of MGS is that he can't retire, the plot of MGS2 is him trying to keep Raiden from becoming him, MGS3 is showing that its literally in his DNA, and MGS4 has him unable to rest because the fighting isn't finished, even though he's an old man.
>I'm not saying he'd be a Beast because he's named Snake.
>I'm saying he's a Beast because he's unable to live in conventional society. His heart is on the battlefield. While its true that you can play without a single kill, it's clear that the "canon" is that Snake has indeed killed many people and may in fact enjoy the killing and the fighting.
So, he has PTSD? So?

I wasn't talking about Snake.
I was talking about methodically looking through the weaknesses of their captors defence, and exploiting them. Such as figuring out where one can dig a tunnel out, or just exploit the guard changes or somesuch.
Just because Snake does that, it doesn't mean that everyone who does that is Snake.

>Your appearance also doesn't (necessarily) change radically when you escape.
Then the references to Seeming determining apperance, or even better, change the names.

I feel like you're taking my offhanded comparison to a canon character as if I was saying that your concept is LITERALLY that character. Also, he doesn't really have PTSD, but "so?" would be that he's very fitting for what a Beast Seeming would be.

Again: Seeming is crystalized when you escape, (and become a Changeling, as opposed to a Faerie's plaything) but that doesn't mean it isn't something that was with you before the Durance. Each of the Seemings talks about "before the Durance" for a reason.

>I feel like you're taking my offhanded comparison to a canon character as if I was saying that your concept is LITERALLY that character. Also, he doesn't really have PTSD, but "so?" would be that he's very fitting for what a Beast Seeming would be.

And I feel you are hijacking my question to talk about what you think is a fitting Beast.

"What kind of Seeming would this character be?"
"Sounds like this fictional character who would be a perfect Beast"
"Oh my God, stop hijacking my question!"

Yeah, the point is that you focus on the wrong parts. You focus on the "can't leave war behind" parts. I don't care about those. I want the careful logical planning.

Is trinity also acceptable?

Scion is going to share the same system as the Trinity series, not Exalted (close).

Still, it has as much to do with Exalted as it does World of Darkness.

I still find the social rules lacking when compared to even the sway mechanic from mirrors. Theres no means of talking someone into doing something in the immediate sense, you have to get a reputation going first. Also theres no real means of resistance. The most you can do is boost composure and resolve to make it take longer but its still going to happen.

>Scion is going to share the same system as the Trinity series, not Exalted (close).

Yes yes, going to. But right now it shares a system with Exalted.

Exalted has its own system.

Trinity and Scion don't have a complete system yet, they're not out.

>Theres no means of talking someone into doing something in the immediate sense, you have to get a reputation going first.
You just use a single roll.

The social system is for long-term social needs.

Yeah i know but if they're going to have a social system I'd like it to handle everything. Thats the point of having systems, so that things don't have to boil down to just slap an attribute and ability together and make a roll.

So you want a system for immediate solution that's more complicated than the current system for it?

>Theres no means of talking someone into doing something in the immediate sense
Are you talking about CofD?

Because you can Force doors if you don't want to be subtle.
Instant roll penalised by existing Doors.
If you succeed, target cooperates. If you fail, you can't maneuver against them any more.
Works nicely when combined with stuff like Steadfast.

Not everything needs a subsystem, user. That leads to bloat.

Yeah. That's what it looks like mechanically. But how to put it into play?
I don't get how this fits into actual play.

You - I want to convince Dracula to let me go.
ST - Roll Manipulation + Persuasion, -2 because of what you did.
You - No. I want to do more than that.
ST - What?
You - I want to use the social maneuvering system.
ST - Okay. He's got 5 doors, plus 1 because he knows you're going to tell everyone he's a vampire.
Everyone else at the table - Come on man this is gonna take forever just roll Persuasion.
You - NO! I WANT TO USE THE SOCIAL MANEUVERING SYSTEM FOR THIS. Now pass the book, I don't know what Doors are, what do I do?
Then you look in the fucking book.

use the chase system.

it works really well because the dice pool changes reflect the changes in conversation.

If you're trying to convince someone of something nicely, slowly, suggesting realted ideas and trying to build up a reputation for yourself before finally asking when they're totally cool with it.
Such as borrowing a Grimoire off a powerful Mystagogue.
You use the normal system.

However if partway through that process, you need the Grimoire NOW.
You can go up to him, and try to browbeat/coerce him into immediately getting it for you.
You might be able to convince him, or you might just scare him off.

How do I Changeling Dizzy?

No, I pointed those parts out when you said he wasn't a Beast.
You literally listed off one of the examples that a Beast would do (digging a tunnel). Jesus, fine, he'd be a Fairest, then, is that what you want?

Scion 1e is out.
It didn't use Exalted's system, though. In fact, it had a lot more in common with oWoD.

I feel like you're not understanding things correctly.
The Social Maneuvering system isn't for that. That's what the core mechanic of "roll a dice at a penalty" is for. Even then, you *can* just use Social Maneuvering for more immediate stuff regardless. It's not like you're bound and gagged to only use the system exactly as stated. And, hell, they also suggest using Chase rules for more immediate social interaction.

>But how to put it into play?
However you want? I'm not sure what the issue is. It's literally just doing what you've always done, because that part isn't what Maneuvering is for.

I do really wish they'd done more with that. Especially the Merits for Chases. They're fluffed to where they could go either way, but that's kind of boring.

She's a Demon. Or an Unfleshed. I'm not sure how Gears work.

>But how to put it into play?
Whenever someone wants something immediately, they make a social test with a penalty equal to doors.
If they get even one success, they get what they want.

If they don't, they realise you're full of shit and don't cooperate.

That's how you do instantaneous social maneuvering in the Doors system.

That's the weird part of doors. Forcing them, in theory, might make sense, but in practice it's just weird how it interacts.

"Well, you rolled badly to force enough doors. The fact that you are standing there pointing a gun at his face doesn't convince him,"

It makes a lot of NPC's retarded in the face of a credible, immediate threat to their lives.

I've always found that people are more likely to do when held at gunpoint if I've previously made them a really nice flower arrangement and helped copy edit their grant proposals.

Thing is, in those situations it's crazy easy due to the Hard Leverage rule.

Threatening someone with a gun would for most people be a breaking point, at either -1 or -2.
It's unlikely to prevent an aspiration, act opposite to a virtue, or be a breaking point.

So really given most people's mental attributes of 2, that would be either a -1 or -2 to the test. And since you're in trouble and you don't want to cock up, add some Willpower to the mix, and you can get people to do what you want easily.

>That's the weird part of doors. Forcing them, in theory, might make sense, but in practice it's just weird how it interacts.
No it doesn't. In fact the situation you just described isn't even how it works.
>It makes a lot of NPC's retarded in the face of a credible, immediate threat to their lives.
That doesn't mean that you succeeded at being threatening.

That's... not how it works.
Also, "Forcing" doesn't mean "Using Hard Leverage". I had that misunderstanding myself. Forcing is just being insistent.

Why doesn't anyone play Mummy, again?

Too confusing.
Top obscure.
No strong basis in popular culture.
You're servants, not independents.
Difficult themes.
Limited inspiration/reference material.
Genuinely less interesting in many ways than other splats (personally)

You run a game and I'll try my hardest to play it.

>No strong basis in popular culture.

Everything you say is valid except this. It's not tough to say "picture a game where you play as the bad guy from the fantastic Brendan Fraser movie" and let it roll from there.

I'm starting to realize I like this game because it's so fucking obtuse.

Because I'm already running a Mage game
And I don't think the people I play with would be interested in it, anyways(based on talking about it a few times)

Except that Mummy isn't really like The Mummy.
Also, they're remaking it with Tom Cruise, for their ̶A̶v̶e̶n̶g̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶r̶i̶p̶o̶f̶f̶ Universal Monster shared universe.

I'd do it.

It sounds like highlander but with spooky mummy problems and cult family instead.

The wide brush strokes of it (wake up as a gross ancient undead demigod and throw sandstorms and zombies at people) are similar enough to hook a casual fan. Most folks don't even get to see all the fun powers Mummy has past the meaty mythology.

Playing an undead pharoah that can raise zombies, throw sandstorms, and turn everyone over the age-of-consent-is-16-in-most-of-the-country into nubile fertility priestesses gets my dick hard.

Playing as the soul-slave of the jackass children of the Exarchs and Exalted's Deathlords while my power stat literally goes DOWN as I play chops it off "root and stem," as Varys would say.

I wanted to like Mummy, but really I just wanted a mashup of Vampire and Mage, and instead I got a mashup of Ghouls and Scion.

>turn everyone over the age-of-consent-is-16-in-most-of-the-country into nubile fertility priestesses
wut

Sure, but there is only a very limited amount of games one can run in it.

Honestly, the the timer is what cuts it for me. The game gets really complicated to run any long-term game that doesn't span millennia.

The fact that this is shown by making the PC's weaker as the game progresses is also boring. I want to feel like my character grows, not withers.

The timer isn't really that big a deal.
>The fact that this is shown by making the PC's weaker as the game progresses is also boring. I want to feel like my character grows, not withers.
That's the core gimmick. You've got to accomplish your goals before you burn out.

True, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. There's still a lot you can do in that framework, and the Sothic Turns make it easier to do other things.

If you just want to run a single Descent (and why would you - it's a game about being immortal), you still have over a year minimum before your Sekhem runs out.

And you don't just wither, as your character should be growing in Memory even as they bleed Sekhem. You may start the game off an angry god and then return to being a corpse, but that interim time should be spent rebuilding your sense of identity and conspiring towards freedom, or at the very least solving cosmic mysteries, building your cult, finding awesome relics, and setting in motion or realizing thousand year plans.

>That's the core gimmick. You've got to accomplish your goals before you burn out.
Yeah. And I dislike that core gimmick. Thus I don't play Mummy.

>If you just want to run a single Descent (and why would you - it's a game about being immortal), you still have over a year minimum before your Sekhem runs out.
Because I'm human, and am used to seeing things in a human scale.
Besides, shit breaks over millennia, where is the fun part in starting over every time?

all the went in my head is a Egyptian looking girl in her early teens dressed in sexy Egyptian clothing

>you still have over a year minimum before your Sekhem runs out.

I thought a year was the absolute max, if you succeeded on all your rolls?