Female pronouns in rulebooks

Seriously, this shit has to stop. I am literally TRIGGERED, Veeky Forums. Please, hugbox me or tell me to go back to /pol/ or whatever.

It just makes no goddamn sense. There is a reason "he" became the go-to "neutral" pronoun. It even takes, on average, 33.(3) % less characters to write than "she". And the text becomes so much easier to read when I don't have to go "wait, what? Oh, I get it, he thinks a woman would read this." every time the author references the character or the player.

And think of the context. It's not like this is written in a woman's magazine. It's not like it's describing an inherently feminine activity, when referring to characters and players. Fuck no. It's not even a "unisex" activity. I can bet my sweet, sweet virginity that over 90% of people who read books about roleplaying games are dudes.

Get real with me here, do publishers literally censor people who don't fill the diversity-quotas? Because I doubt anyone even remotely related to the gaming industry would think that pandering to SJWs helps their sales.

I guess I can understand that. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. But my most burning hatred goes out to people who alternate between "he" and "she" in the same book. Fuck you. There is a special place in hell for you.

...

Thank you for your contribution.

two genders exist

it makes perfect sense and it isn't pandering. It's be pandering if they started to include those made up pronounce like "Xhie" or "Xir"

do publishers literally censor people who don't fill the diversity-quotas?

Do you even need to ask this question?

/thread

>diversity-quotas

OP, you must not be much of a businessman, because you don't seem to understand the value of assuring your (largely male and virginal) consumer-base that you can meet girls through their product.

At least I can ask it. For now.
Yes, but. If write "A nurse came in, and sat quietly by my bed.", and then refer to the nurse as "she" it would seem a lot more natural than if I were to refer to the nurse as "he". That's because most nurses are women. That's why a generic, non-specific nurse is usually referred to as "she". Sure, there are male nurses, and you can put them in your book all you like, but if you want to introduce them, you're gonna have to say a bit more than "nurse".

Be sure to say this whenever you meet someone.
Just so they get advanced warning on you being an autistic shithead

>"Xhie" or "Xir"
I always think of some pulp space fantasy something when I see those.
> On the industrious planet Xir, the high vizir Xhie was pondering behind the thick walls of the high citadel.

Have a (You).

It REALLY doesnt matter.

>Implying I ever go outside of my house ever

I will not complain about this shit until they start pandering to shitty liberals with things like demonizing the [insert current politician they got brainwashed to hate] or they start putting gender fluid crap. Trust me, it could be the best game ever I will not buy that crap.

/thread

I wish people like this came with warning stickers.

Oh, wait...

Since it's not 100% either way and, more importantly, this is a WORK OF FICTION, why do you care so much?

Shut up stupid.

I kinda prefer 'he or she', myself, or even using 'she' to refer to the game master and 'he' to refer to the player (or vice versa). Hell, 5e got by with a second-person perspective on writing, I liked that.
Just don't go into made-up genders like xe, zie, thon, etc and I'll be fine.

>texas fedora

You got something to say, partner?

>You should play a tranny, user
>Why don't you play a tranny, you shitlord?
t. Wizards of the Coast

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It's harder to read it that way, at least for me.

I'm fine with LGBT to be honest with you. I'm a rare /pol/ack.

The only time using a single gender in an RPG book is acceptable is when the system is about something that defaults so incredibly to one gender of character that almost every single one of them is going to be that gender and it's actually completely safe to assume that anyone playing the other gender is doing so specifically to play something out of the normal stuff. Like Magical Girls or Pro Wrestling.

Is it the same person posting all the "Girls have cooties!" bait threads, or is there a gaggle of the faggots?

Hi, /r9k/. How's Pepe doing?

I bet you faggots love the new seasons of GoT, with all the stronk and powerful wymyn.

>Create fantasy world where men and women fight together in daring camaraderie
>Find out neckbeards on the internet are mad because the women in your games are actually useful

the fact that anyone bothered to make this thread or comment in it makes me sad. this is a non-topic.

my only consolation is that you sound so very, very butthurt, OP, and you really deserve to be hurt in the butt.

life must be a very confusing and frustrating place for you. i should feel sorry for you, but really, you deserve every bit of it.

It's not about the world or the characters, although that's another story. It's about the players.

I like the way Pathfinder does it with writing the rulebooks as if you're playing the Iconic. It gives a reason for the pronouns and makes it feel more flavorful.

If you're getting tripped up because a fucking book isn't using the pronouns you prefer maybe you should fuck off back to tumblr.

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Here, user, have some capital letters.

actually it all started because there's an editing trick to avoid using 'he' where you shouldn't

you run a find/replace on all instances of "he" with "she" and then do a quick readthrough of the document to see if it still makes any goddamned sense.

people just kind of blur past referring to a political system, robot, building, or any number of things as "he" despite the fact that unduly humanizes them. but "she" sets off the "wait, that's fucking dumb" alarm.

White Wolf's 90s editors being White Wolf's lazy-ass 90s editors, they didn't finish changing it back once upon a time, and then someone brought up "well, who gives a shit, it still works, right?"

triggering team r9k was just a pleasant bonus

Huh, this is a genuinely interesting post on a thread that I fully expected to be shit.
Have an internet cookie.

>talking shit about some genuinely nice hats

Hey, man, don't lump some of us in with those autists.

Damn, I had no clue about any of that. Interesting af

Thanks bud

...

>2016
>writing rule books in third person

This. Why make pronouns a political statement every single tome, if the male versions has been used for centuries as the neutral one?

There are instances where it makes sense to switch, but generally you should keep the version that doesn't sound weird.

Why use cars, when horses have been used for centuries?
Things change. Even things that have been around for centuries.

Actually, the "natural feel" of the sentence has more to do with the fact that you would go "The nurse came in and she/he sat quietly by my bed" rather than "The nurse, who was a man/woman, came in and he/she sat quietly by my best".

Right there with you, user. I think it wouldn't rattle me as much if they used "they" as the proper neutral pronoun instead of using "she."

But that example IS a political statement ("we use he, but please understand we're not sexist!") that explicitly acknowledges that it's taking place in a context of tension between the genders.

Remember, children, "political" and "political in a way I don't like" are not the same thing, and neither are "not political" and "political in a way I like".

I'd prefer they alternate than use she across the board.

If you can't use "he" because you don't want to exclude female readers, then deliberately choosing "she" is deliberately excluding your male readers.

But it's really not that fucking hard to just write your sentences using "they".

And it's not a novel, you can freely choose to use "you" and write directly to the reader.

Yes, but the centuries old convention was more efficient. Things change, yes, that doesn't mean we have to settle for a mediocre, stupid, or inefficient idea just because it's new.

I mean, based on OP's argument of "what uses fewer characters is better", why not use "it"? That's shorter than "she" AND is gender neutral.

Those guys thought of everything *oldfagfistbump*

"It" is dehumanizing and significantly more jarring than "she".
Also, "it" is grammatically incorrect when talking about a person. The generic player being discussed is a person.

Why use autists, when normies have been used for centuries?
Things change. Even things that have been around for centuries.

I'm dissapointed you guys even responed to this sad sack. Veeky Forums, you're better than this.

>If you can't use "he" because you don't want to exclude female readers, then deliberately choosing "she" is deliberately excluding your male readers.

They already know their male readers are going to read it regardless of the pronouns.

Mmm, well female characters are hardly rare and most gendered pronouns in rulebooks refer to characters rather than players.

>"B-but if I read the word 'she' I'll be so emasculated my dick will fall off! Won't somebody think of my fragile ego!"

I wrote an entire 198 page RPG without using he OR she anywhere. Just from what I thought sounded best for how to write it out, it was all either 'you' or 'that character'

Are you really that dumb or have you been fucked over by the Trump mind-control? Fuck Hillary too she's even worse then Adolf Trump

5e uses "you".

Fucking good for them. About fucking time.

Is a different thing. Op is either complaining about bad grammar, or like complaining about political agenda being shoehorned into the damn books.

Is not about either. It's about the political pandering on the part of the author, or about bad grammar.

Nah. It's a fair thing to complain about. It's getting fucking annoying. I buy a game for reading/playing, not to have pro-female / anti-male politics thrown in my face.

Huh. Good way to know when you should be using "it".

Is not bait when there are several people that agree and that are also sick of writers shoving their politics into game products they want you to buy.

You want my money? Stop shoving your politics in my face.

Stick to 'he' cause convention, or 'they/one/you' cause neutral. If you're going to decide 'he' is not socially acceptable, then neither is 'she', and by deciding you can't use he because it excludes women, the use of she is deliberately deciding to exclude men.

>There is a reason "he" became the go-to "neutral" pronoun.
Scholars primarily being male historically, especially during the 1800s where English grammar became codified by the most stick-up-their-ass people in existence who refused to recognize singular they despite its common usage for centuries?

>They already know their male readers are going to read it regardless of the pronouns.
Read? Maybe.
Pay for? Clearly not all of us.
And if it's sexist to use 'he', which is neutral by convention, then it's definitely sexist to use 'she' which is not.

Double standards, pandering, and special privileges a shit.

>literally triggered to waste hundreds of characters on how character inefficient writing she is
>i am the baseline of gaemer everything should be for me mom
>sjws are invading and taking our things but have nothing to do with sales that's why marketing panders to them
>me being uncomfortable about anything not being how i want it is the most important thing for who goes to hell

lol

Yep. Pretty much.

I'd much rather see they and you.

He's right though. If I read a rule book and it was all she I would get a refund on it.

Enjoy ghostbusters, user.

Properly speaking, gender neutral pronouns are actually "he" and the other masculine pronouns.

>Problems of usage arise in languages such as English, in contexts where a person of unspecified or unknown gender is being referred to but commonly available pronouns (he or she) are gender-specific. In such cases a gender-specific, usually masculine, pronoun is sometimes used with intended gender-neutral meaning; such use of "he" was also common in English until the latter half of the 20th century but is now controversial

The controversy stemming mostly from tumblr culture.

So it's actually either ignorance on the part of the writer, or intentional pandering to include female pronouns to make the female readers feel accepted, which actually has been a proven tactic to make the female reader feel more included in the hobby.

I'm not OP by the way, nor do I agree or disagree with anything in this thread. I'm just throwing some facts in to fuel the discussion.

Xir sounds too much like "Sir"

I'd rather people don't invite pronouns that are homonyms of common honorifics.

Personally I'm reminded of when Kryten was attempting to learn to say Smeghead.

>"You're a XIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRR ZHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
>"A what?"
>"A complete and total one, sir"

If using "he" and "she" makes it easier to differentiate between players or characters being talked about, I'm all for it. I also don't give a shit either way.

Vehicles are actually better than a car.
"Zhie" takes twice as many letters, confuses many people as to its meaning, has no actual real-life meaning, has folks wondering how the fuck they're supposed to pronounce it, and thus also detracts from reading the actual material at hand.

It is a downgrade in every way.

Horses have been used for centuries, but these pronouns aren't a car, they're three ducks strapped to a paraplegic goat.

What about how Paizo does it with the Iconics? Where it's a flavor reason, because it's writing as if you're playing the pregen of that class. I think that's pretty neat.

I'm sorry, that sounds incredibly. . .unlikely to say the least. Most people in every day speech do not refer to objects or concepts like political systems or buildings by any humanoid pronouns, and referring to a robot or other commonly personified things is fine as it is.

I'm going to have to ask for sauce on that factoid there.

That intentional pandering may help bring in women, but it also drives away some of the men.

I agree. Zhie is in no way a reasonable alternative.

That only covers the class writeups. How does paizo handle the other stuff?

Either way Itd be better if they just used 'you'

Why do you care?

I'm okay when they alternate, particularly if it fits examples and images being used in the chapter.

>examples of these cleric spells are jozan, priest of the burning hate, so most of the third person stuff uses 'he'

>examples of this snu-snu uses bertha, half-ogre of the burning crotch, so most of the third person stuff uses 'she'

>examples of this ship combat is about vehicles, so it's only appropriate to stick to 'it'.

That can be okay.

The important thing is that things should make sense, language and reading should be consistent throughout a book, and no one should be trying to brute-force a heavy-handed personal agenda through beating fucking grammar black and blue.

Eh, if it makes pusses happy to like the things I like, I am willing to accept the use of some female pronouns.

I'd like there to be a non-object non-gender pronoun, but they makes my head hurt, and nobody has come out with a good alternative.

>factoid
It may well be a factoid user. Good catch. It sounds possible, and so nobody likes into it.

Presumably he's sick of the politics being shoved in his face.

Fuck men.

Okay not literally, but given the choice, I'd rather hang around a mix of men and women than just a chunk of men.

Just checked. They use a whole lot of "The [verb]er"

The Spellcaster and The [Class] show up a lot.

A+ Paizo

>tfw the baddest country in the world has to choose between shit and shit
I don't know if I should laugh or be worried

Write in 2nd person. Like 5e does.

I always liked how VtM used female pronouns. Gave the game a sexier, sleeker feel.

>It says he which means every word is penis which is sexist and triggers me
Is no less bad.

That's the whole point: If "he" is sexist, then only using "she" is exactly as sexist. Which also means quite simply that some asshole using "xer" is probably being deliberately sexist against all those "cis" "xer" hates so much (probably because they don't loathe their own bodies with some serious mental issues to go with it).

Men seemed to be able to tolerate "their" pronoun being xeroxed into total neutrality, so why the fuck is everyone else up in arms? They're not the ones who've been literally grammatically neutered, how the fuck are they the victims in all this? That's just like when I got accused of the holocaust when I was 15 because I was blonde by some old hag with like twelve rings on her fingers. What in the fuck how is any of this our fault?

I don't mind the alternating pronouns of hypothetical players that some books do. It feels clearer than singular "they" often does. Too bad English lacks a gender neutral set of pronouns.

That covers some cases but not all.

M:tG uses second-person for the controlling/owning player and third person "he or she" for players.

I wonder how 4e did it.

Not at my main compy (or main residence) so fuck looking that shit up.

Actually, the proper actual English gender neutral pronoun is singular "they, them, their". Its use goes back to the 14th Century and is fairly common in every english speaking country.

And tumblr culture is about a few decades too soon to describe the origin of the "weird" pronouns, many dating back to at least the 70s and a several going back to the mid 1800s.

I agree with this sir. What kind of faggot wears a top hat or Panama anyway?

Only true gentlemen wear fedoras

I still kinda hate that second-person singular and second-person plural is the same in the English language.

English is great at merging pronouns. You get used to it. Compared to my other language English is missing like 70% of the desired pronouns.

Its english, what did you expect, something rational?

>OP still hasn't realized that Veeky Forums is on that whacky wild waterslide ride to the extreme left that /co/ took and there's nothing to stop it

Check xir pronouns, shit-identifying fascist.

>/co/
>Veeky Forums
>Anywhere on this mongolian gardening forum
>being politically left

and 100% of phonetics that make sense

If you want grammar that falls apart, nous pourrions parler français....

More like 90% of those. I kind of enjoy the spelling sometimes because you can see other Germanic words in things where the sound of them is gone.

I don't understand how having both male and female characters in a book is pushing some kind of political agenda. Please explain it to me.

Name drop that language son!

And if it's Japanese.

Fuck it.

I don't need a language to have I (the old lady), I (the young piece of shit), and so on.

English has always had it's imperfections. I think that if most of my hobbies weren't Japanese in nature, I'd probably want to learn French. Their mastery of turning specific concepts into words astounds me.

>French has multiple different words for attraction between two people, from full on romantic love, to casual sexual interest
>There is a chain of convenience stores called "Couche-tard", which sounds ridiculous in English, but the French translation roughly means "Snacks for people who go to bed late"
>The French phrase "L'esprit de l'escalier", or roughly "The wit of the staircase", specifically refers to the feeling you get when you walk away from an argument having been badly beaten, and then moments later, when the time has long since passed, you come up with the PERFECT comeback.

Bonus fact:
>Hygge (Huh-guh) is a Danish word that is used to describe "that comfortable, family feeling you get in certain places surrounded by friends you love"

It's just being inclusive. Op is the one pushing an agenda.

So would I.

But I'm sick of being marginalized and told my opinions don't count regardless of the quality of my arguments or the facts backing them because I was born with the wrong fucking genitals, and I'm not going to pay someone to make a political statement to exclude me for being male.

Good for paizo! "you" would still be easier though.

Fuck the French Academy

Those bitches don't drop letters.

Swedish.
Particularly possessive pronouns.