>Blood Money shipping Oh boy, hopefully spoilers soon. I'm getting bored of seeing Star Wars and LotR stuff in the FFG news page.
Also, how do corps usually generate the money for Sandburg? There's no way it's just Hedge Funds and PAD Campaigns so what are some common econ options for corp?
I ask mostly because I saw that runner econ engines article in stimhack, and was wondering if there was something similar for the corps. Especially since corps may not always have access to them due to preemptive trashing.
Brandon Cook
I don't know myself, everyone playing Sandburg around here so far goes for the complete lockout and generally fails (but it does hurt when it succeeds, and the impression sticks with people*). When you have to secure one extra server and keep liquidity in the bank, suddenly your potential ICE selection is pretty limited (Reina is wrecking that shit too) because you have to account for rez costs, so that do not kill your bank coffer.
People think I'm crazy, but I'm wondering about Eliza's Toybox, because suddenly it's not just about the credits you're not spending, it doubles up as those you can keep in the bank. So to speak.
Overall though, I think as always the "right" play is going to be the more conservative one, the "rez to create a score window" one.
Still want to see some lockout myself. Pretty fun to play and play against.
*: an interesting bit to ponder, most people I talk to seem to be of the opinion that the balance has been on the runner side what with the Faust dominance talks and all - just look at the latest Self-Modifying Code article to see something I find representative of what I hear - and yet the data so far goes the other way as far as I can tell, I see more corp wins There can be a discrepancy between what we keep from the games, and what they are overall doing.
Jason Sanchez
On another notice, was looking at current Nasir options, and it's so sad Chatterjee University only deals with programs, because the ability to ignore money it confers fits Nasir so well.
I'm guessing it + DaVinci could offer him a new, different rig in due times.
Justin Sanchez
>Blood Money shipping I hear Hope so, pretty hyped for this cycle
Weyland methods - Blue Sun, GRNDL Refinery, possibly asset spam (because who doesn't love a +5 strength Tour Guide?) - though I still think I need to find better ways to protect it. I want to start from scratch with Blue Sun and it after my first plan didn't work
Parker Morales
That being said sorry, not helping, am I?
What I've seen work decently well is a straightforward Breaker Bay Grid + Money Asset glacier base with some money/draw operation as complement.
Kevin Allen
Anyone thinks if this become the next big thing it might help bring back crims? Hell, even expose?
If you stay in the 2-4 range cost for ICE this has hah going for so far, I'm thinking The Root could do wonders.
Blake Howard
It's alright, discussion topics are always welcome.
I think there was an user from a bit back with his big ice rush tactic with Toybox, Oversight, Bioroid Efficiency, etc., that seemed pretty fun.
I have this thought that most games are about "building an engine > make it efficient > fulfill win condition". Even in non euro type games, the simple "upgrade equipment > kill enemies faster > upgrade equipment to be even better" process is still a type of engine. Why balance seems to be on the runner side could be because the runner's "engine" is almost always better than the corps. They have draw, they have money, they have clicks, etc. and the engine often just keeps going. Meanwhile, while the corp also has cards that give them the same options, their engines are almost always easily disruptible; a trash here, a siphon there, a steal here, Noise installs a virus there, and the engine breaks down. Which is of course why we usually dedicate 1/3rd of the deck to ice, to protect that engine. But if the ice gets passed through easily, then the engine may never run. The runner seems stronger simply because they can get their engine running, while the corps can't.
It's probably also the reason why Bioethics and asset spam in general did so well, it is an efficient engine that the runner is unable to keep up with, does not require ice, and if left alone will eventually reach it's win condition. But since this is just a small subset of corp decks, and there are more runner decks that can execute their game plan quickly, the impression that "Runners are stronger" is more prevalent.
I think if the pendulum is to swing back to the corps, either a way to disrupt the Runner's engine is needed, or the corp's engine needs to be stabilized. After all that was what Jackson did when he was introduced, a way to stabilize the corp engine by providing an outlet for untimely agenda draws. Disruption is much harder, due to incredible recursion on the runner side
Evan Lee
I look forward to the day I can IAA > next turn > rez > Dedication Ceremony x2-3 > MCC all tokens a GRNDL Refinery with maybe a Sandburg.
That said, doesn't look like there's a particularly permanent econ engine barring asset spam for corps does there? Just card combos that either give you a burst of money or discounts.
What are the crim's problems recently? Bad late game due to reliance on events?
Hudson Thomas
Weird, because as much as I think Howard is a bad card (powerful and needed, at least at the time of release, but bad) I do agree about the stabilization effect, and it being overall a good thing (though it certainly contributed in killing some runner strategies almost outright).
My pet theory about why NEH has 17 influence is that at the time it was created, Howard wasn't. Howard was a late minute addition to address the agenda flood issue that was becoming such a huge concern right before he was printed. By the time Howard was added, the next cycle was already past testing point in schedule, and no one was thought to address the problem that the self-flooding inherent to its ID ability wasn't much of an issue that needed balance anymore.
Owen Anderson
Tight influence remains one big issue. No recursion, no draw, shifty breakers.
Even without going into any current, meta dependent weakness, I think this alone explains a lot. Kills desire to play from inception for a lot of people.
Then of course, there's the Howard problem. One of the big strength of Crim used to be the using of early snipping risk to force an agenda flood in HQ... Howard has been too good at mitigating that I would say. Few (some have, Leela for one can still make that play decently well I think) people have even cared about HQ for a while now because of that.
Carter Brown
Install > ignore/next turn > Double Dedication is really nice - make them think it's a snare or something
And yeah, corp econ is much more combo than anything permanent, though I'm also considering pic related or the Root like . Depending how Jank you want to be that might be "on a Worlds Plaza" for Investors, using Breaker Bay for the Root/OTG, or for max jank, using Banking Group on World's Plaza, Off The Grid (or use BSto bounce ice protecting the WP) but that's a crazy amount of cards
I've also found that Sandburg works best left unrezzed until a critical/clutch run (barring councilfam)
Eli Sanders
>either a way to disrupt the Runner's engine is needed Hopefully this will help, even though it's mostly just a delay
Easton Long
It doesn't feel like the extra influence was due to the danger of agenda flooding. Even if you did import tools from other factions, assuming Jackson doesn't exist, how would it have solved it? There's Archived Memories I guess, but there's also Interns which almost does the same thing. Might be that even with Jackson, they still thought that the extra draw was too weak an ID power, especially since it empties RnD faster.
Better draw is certainly important, but I don't think recursion is particularly necessary. Playing criminal has always felt like planning a bank heist to me, make a plan, prepare plan B to Z, then strike at the opportune moment. That said, they do need a way to make them stand out, since Shapers and Anarchs outclass them in almost every way.
I want to see Worlds Plaza + 1-2 Snares + 1-2 Banking Groups + Expo Grid atleast once in my life now, maybe with 1-2 Cyberdex to protect against Imp once.
William Morgan
Oh wait, they can just trash Worlds Plaza first and not deal with the snares. Damn. ID that chooses which cards the runner accesses when.
Asher Bell
Yeah, that should be good. Its also cheap and no influence, so I would say its perfect for New Angeles Sol glacier. You put it out to slow the runners buildup, since most run resources to do it, then you switch to another current late game. So that would be 2x Scarcity, 1x of two or three other currents, since you can get them out of the heap. I don't know which other currents you would want exactly, but it seems viable to me. Plus you get the other benefit of the ID ability, News Hound.
Jose Reed
Looking forward to Financial Collapse too.
Blake Clark
>they can just trash Worlds Plaza first and not deal with the snares Sadly yes.
What does it do, other than make Chaos Theory sad?
Levi Cooper
No idea, I just noticed that it was a Corp card, and any corp card with an ominous title (in a pack with blood and money in the title) and a crying child on it has to be good. Right?
Jonathan Davis
>any corp card with an ominous title (in a pack with blood and money in the title) and a crying child on it has to be good. Can't argue with that logic
Aiden Watson
Initially I was hoping it would be a trace operation to further fuel aryabhata shenanigans, but now that that's already popular enough that people are teching against it I don't know if that's actually what I want anymore.
Also fuck sports hopper for not being link, foxfire didn't need nerfing.
Dylan Anderson
Play Weyland. GRNDL stuff, blue sun, hostile takeover and geothermal fracking with strong enough ice to give no fucks about how much bad pub you have.
Robert Ramirez
>Also fuck sports hopper for not being link, foxfire didn't need nerfing. This.
I kind of hope we get more (playable) vehicles... so the corps get a way to kill them in a cool way, other than shattered remains (also, note dino's plaster on Collapse)
Also wondering if there'll be a way to help glacier or otherwise slow corps beat a runner once their rig/resources are all set up - there's All-Seeing I, and that's kind of it - it's very strong, but if there was something between that and the cards that only take one thing at a time Killer, Foxfire etc. that'd be great
As much as the corp shouldn't just sit back and not score (looking at you IG), a runner who does the same against a non-FA deck can become as dominant - waiting with a bag of tricks (usually shaper, but sometimes just Nexus and the Sunny Suite) until the corp feebly tries to score - I think only Caprice/Batty can really make a window there
Or I might be just bitching because I make decks that play too slowly
Michael Sanchez
The stars aligned for my Blue Sun last game (the losses before it tell me the deck needs serious work), and I got to have Sandburg out with over 50 credits.
It's glorious, and stupid: +10 to everything is insane.
Needs a hell of a lot of work, and I don't have a scorch package, but Archer at 19 is a glorious sight
Luke Hernandez
My last match, got a bit stupid to the end
Sandburg on a Worlds Plaza (also Museum and Capital Investors) is alright - you need the remote anyway, might as well put other stuff in it
Lucas Long
If you're going toybox don't forget it rezzes Archer, HB-Archer, Salem and Corp Town for free, no agenda needed
Actually, corp town fulfils what is asking for, kind of - you've just got to protect it
Grayson Young
Beth (and other money-punishment) soon, maybe
Christian King
Corps don't have link to try an balance things. It was either influence or deck-size. And reducing deck-size would have made it too close to TWIY*, which is why I think they went for influence. Not as a way to *address* agenda flood, but as compensation for the heightened risk of it.
>but I don't think recursion is particularly necessary.
I current context, I think it's never been more needed. Between all the ways to get rid of grip - or even stack - cards that aren't damage, and the increase in damage output, I think it's becoming more and more an issue. I mean laugh all you want at the high variance aspect of a runner losing a game early because vital breakers get trashed from a rushed Underway Renovation, but the game offers situations that no amount of preparation can counter. You have to account for those happening.
"Yeah, you can make me poor... well so can I!"
So much potential with that cycle.
Brayden Torres
Nice. Had a game against one of those happening, and it's fairly interesting.
Tyler Perry
>but if there was something between that and the cards that only take one thing at a time Killer, Foxfire etc. that'd be great
Pic related?
Connor Gutierrez
>happening *today*
Not that the mistake matters much, but it irritates my addled brain.
Dylan Wood
Sort of, but it still needs the runner to be able to be tagged - something that's pretty avoidable.
Idk, maybe I'm not baiting effectively enough with traps or using upgrades well. Such is the weyland life.
Well, unless you manage to get a crazy lockout like , but I think the runner being able to break any given scoring server the once or twice they need to win is more common than a total lockout
Chase Turner
Does the "trash a single card, lose everything" part hurt at all? Or does it not matter because 10+ str spiderweb?
>recursion I think you're right, I never considered fringe cases like Underway Renovation or the upcoming Jinteki ID that hurt your stack, just conventional methods like damage or traps, which usually can be avoided by being aware of and avoiding it, especially by Crims. Then there's Builder of Nations with their 1 damage every first run too.
I do still think Crims need it the least though, since of the 3 runner factions they're the best keeping up pressure even if they did just lose their breakers. Nonetheless, an in-faction deja vu or clone chip would probably benefit the faction as a whole.
Lucas Evans
It hurts a little - it's a remote you do have to defend, or else your money is worthless - but you need to make sure you can respond Ideally with another/recurred Sandburg
Jose Parker
>Sort of, but it still needs the runner to be able to be tagged - something that's pretty avoidable.
Well, yeah, but trash with no tag should be extremely costly and/or specialized. Corporate Town is a gold standard as far as I'm concerned. Scary but fair, I find.
Being able to "touch" the runner pro-actively should remain under heavy control. For the good of the game.
Do they need it least? Probably, though Shapers have some claim to that too. Can they do without? I'm finding it harder and harder. That being said, if anything, I think I'd prefer something neutral that isn't particularly good but does the job. Save a bit of influence.
And now I wonder... Full Immersion RecStudio/Sandburg.
Alexander Wood
>And now I wonder... Full Immersion RecStudio/Sandburg. How ridiculously convenient, I've been waiting for someone to make a new thread to ask for advice on exactly this.
I'm sort of a new player. I know all the rules and have been playing regularly for months now, but I'm not very versed in deck building.
I've replaced 2x Nisei in my deck (which I previously used to defend Sandburg) with a pair of Rec Studio, then I fit in some Tech Startups to search out either the Studio or Sandburg. I'm using BaBW because it alongside the operations and economy agendas lets me consistently get to 30+ credits by turn 3~5. Stock Buyback is actually pretty good with 3 Hostile Takeover, normally nets me 9 or 12 credits since it's a Transaction.
My logic in using Rec Studio over Worlds Plaza is that it lets me consolidate my Sandburg server and my scoring server into one. Instead of having 2 ice protecting each of the aforementioned, for example, I can have 4 protecting a single super server. Then after they pay 30+ to run on it, I can safely Ash them away.
Does anyone have any advice they can give, especially regarding the ice lineup, agenda choices, ratios, and so on? While the Hostiles give me a cheeky economy boost that I can mitigate with Tampering and fuel Archer or Stock Buy-back, it does inflate my count. I'm also not sure what Weyland ice is supposed to be amazing, and I'm on the fence with something like Ice Wall when I already have Spiderweb at max.
Zachary Cox
That's a strategy I'm wanting to explore, but first thought is that a good Reina deck could hurt it *so* hard. Rook+Xanadu+Cortez. Diwan...And hardly anyone plays that.
Also, probably not for that deck, but double agenda in studio server with Hollywood renovation. That thing is *so* Weyland all eggs in one basket, and utterly disgusting when one manages to get it going. But then if you're going with Orion, could work with that too.
No Interns?
ICE selection right now is in a very weird for me, but with me Weyland takes the cake. You see less D4V1D, so suddenly space ICE doesn't look that bad again, but it's still there so it remains pretty risky.... but then you're going Sandburg anyway...
For Sandburg, but only only because the idea amuses me,and you don't have to pay for install to put it at the head of 4+ server, Builder with some power-increasing advance-able ICE. This + Sandburg, it's just a silly idea, but makes me smile.
It's missing 1 card though, supposedly a support card for Khan.
Landon Cruz
It's her sentry breaker iirc
Golden Cost 5 Str 1 Pay 2 break 2 Pay 2 +4 str Pay 2 return to grip and derez sentry after breaking all subs
Also, holy sheet that rumor mill
Elijah Ward
I think this is my new favorite card. It is so well designed it is beautiful. Every time I make a Shaper deck I will now ask myself "how many Algo Trading should I put in it?" And the answer will almost always be 0.
Jacob Williams
Rumor Mill just broke museum decks and Sandburg.
Special Report may replace Jackson
Exile got a potential breaker, just needs 3 influence.
Argus Loves Prisec.
Financial Collapse is bad news for durdlers.
Hatchet Job and Enforcing Loyalty both have trash costs, which is good cause they can wreck runners.
If that's true, Khan may make a splash.
Joseph Perry
Both of these seem extremely strong. Golden just seems like an objectively better Mongoose other than costing two more credits. Fairchild 2.0 also seems stupidly efficient, even if it's Yog-able.
Nathaniel Reed
>Emelyov is killed a single set after she's introduced Was she actually responsible for 23 Seconds?
Leo Powell
>48528357 Its implied she was, or at the very least seemed involved enough to warrant taking care of
Aiden Anderson
A semi-complete list of protection cards that rumor mill cannot deactivate;
Awakening Center Corporate Troubleshooter Experiential Data Heinlein Grid Midway Station Grid Mumbad City Grid Navi-Mumbai Grid Off the Grid Old Hollywood Grid Red Herrings Ruhr Valley Rutherford Grid Strongbox Tyr's Hand
Notably absent: Ash, Caprice, and Sandburg
2 for 2 subs is a lot worse than 1 for 2 subs, sentries tend to pack a lot of subroutines.
Really Golden lets Khan spam crescentus for 6 credits a time on sentries, which could be worth doing. It will take a lot of credits to power that ability though. Maybe try multi-threaders?
Landon Robinson
I'm mad that they somehow think C.I. Fund is an equivalent to Algo Trading.
Tyler Brown
The one thing, is that the effect is probably a lot stronger for corps (ignoring trash costs etc.) because corps are generally richer, *particularly* weyland who has burst economy but usually has to import for long term monies.
It, actually, doesn't have a huge amount of risk (unless it is trashed when it has 3/6 credits on it) since it can always be trashed in response to a successful run, but....
It takes *3* fucking turns to even do anything (You could have already cashed out on an Adonis by now), and it really needs a fat fucking server protecting it for it to be worth it. It is like, it wants to be a card like Adonis, but with Adonis it blows its load as you build up your server, and *then* you use it to score.
Realistically neither are very playable (unless the game consists solely of big rig vs. Glacier), but the Corp one feels like a legitimately bad card, albeit an interesting one.
Jonathan Powell
Algo Trading is much safer than C.I. Fund. Tags are always hard to land and stick outside of NBN, so resources are almost always completely safe. A passive 2 credits per turn (maybe more, since it isn't unique) with no danger towards it is pretty good. By comparison C.I. Fund is in danger of getting trashed every click. Would've been a lot better with 4/5 trash cost.
Atleast Prisec and Financial Collapse is pretty good I suppose. Especially Prisec in Argus or BoN.
Benjamin Murphy
>Jinteki's been down for hours >mtgred telling the chat he's quitting netrunner Whelp
Lincoln Rogers
Huh, it's still kill
Must be a big one, it busted last night
Rip Archer, that derez is brutal.
Elijah Powell
Rumour Mill, good god
Jackson? Sandburg? Caprice? Museum? All blanked in a single current - that's incredibly strong
Brody Williams
Apparently FFG heard me - Financial Collapse and Hatchet Job have no real requirements
Also Prisec being a non-unique upgrade makes me so happy - it's a baby snare, but it's neutral and 3 to trash
Joshua Allen
Might as well post them all
Ian Reyes
...
Jose Turner
...
Owen Bennett
...
Bentley Allen
>mtgred telling the chat he's quitting netrunner just saw the rant on the chat, i really hope it's just the fact that he was drunk and tired
Jeremiah Johnson
I can't see the chat
Wyatt Taylor
I'll copypaste what's relevant.
Mtgred i'm tired, Minh
random person arent you Minh?
mtgred yes it is me, and i'm tired i'm tired we should talk to FFG at some point because i'm seriously tired
random person I don't think FFG runs this
mtgred they are not i'm tired also about Mumbad City Hall or the new broken Criminal Econ card the game isn't as elegent and balanced as it used to ge Lukas is not there anymore :/ i'm drunk and sad should i reboot this sever ? there is a regional in 4 hours next to where I leive i still dont know if i should attend or not i'm so bored and tired i seriously thinking that playing Netrunner is such waste of time maintaining jinteki is a such a time sink you don't event know i lost a girlfriend bulding it i'm sad now so sad i just want to go to bed now there is a regional in reading in few hours i'm not going to attend it :/ perhaprs UK nationals not going to worls this is the end it makes everything everything even more sad i'm so thankful about the team, Neal, Joel, Filip, Dominic, Lukasz they did an amazing job i'm just reallly tired now and sad
Joseph Foster
Wow.
Yeah, I hope he's just drunk. That's the most depressing thing since Financial Collapse's flavour text.
Hope he doesn't stop with it and the server, and that he finds things he likes about the game again
Gabriel Perry
I only saw him irl once but he didn't seem like he was the kind of person that says "fuck it" and leaves everything behind when things don't go as expected. It's probably a drunk thing. Things will probably be clearer when he wakes up in a few hours.
Brandon Hill
Nfr seems interesting, but Paperclip is calling me. Paperclip is probably the next big thing. How do you think Nfr will work? Obviously datasuckers and Null ability helps, but Wyrm and Ice Carver may help too since virus countera are too volatile.
Elijah Jones
Post break up. Depression looming its ugly head. Looks bad. Hopefully his friends are here for support.
>Rip Archer, that derez is brutal.
Not worse than the Fairy+Crecentus combo that had banned it the first time. If anything a lot fairer.
And know Khan makes sense. And continues that new trend of very strong in-faction symbiosis of runner + rig.
Two Fracters in the same pack for one faction is a bit much. That new Anarch set that install from Heap looks promising though.
Data Breach, ONR modified reprint if I'm not mistaken. Good to see that effect. Shaper applying their efficiency to additional runs is becoming scary.
Resource play is going to become a huge liability for runners.
Rumor Mill... pfff who wnat to play that, doesn't even target Regions.... plus it's useless against an all operation deck. And who like spink cats anyway?
Henry Sullivan
Paperclip stronk - it's more expensive than Corroder, but it breaks really well, and is great for someone like MaxX, or someone running Faust - throw it, if there's a wraparound, boom
Nfr goes with Sucker, Null, Injection Attack, Ice Carver, NRE etc.
Evan Bennett
Yeah, looking back it's actually pretty fair - hugely expensive, but a brutal derez.
Combos nicely with Khan, London Library, and Autoscripter
Actually, thinking of Library, it could be very scary in Shaper, at only 2 inf - Paint/Tinker any ice into a sentry
Joshua Hughes
I'm liking Fairchild 2.0. Been hoping for a cheap(er) for a while and this does not disappoint.
Special Report makes poor, unloved Rework cry.
Aiki does the same for Harvester I guess.
I'm going to love the Prisec bluffs.
Wording on nfr weirds me. Why "that", and not "a"?
The Trash cost on Enforcing Loyalty is not unexpected, but a welcome balance.
Adam Lee
>48531985 > a cheaper 2.0
I meant.
Julian Johnson
>I'm liking Fairchild 2.0. Been hoping for a cheap(er) for a while and this does not disappoint. Compare it to Turing, which costs the same, has 2 more strength than Fairchild 2.0 on a remote (and only one less on a main), can't be broken by AIs, costs a runner three whole clicks (read: their whole turn) to break, and has a hard end the run.
Levi Barnes
Rework should cry, because Rework is terrible, but it looks like they're finally getting around to the Jackson Question... admittedly, they start in NBN, at greater influence, but whatever
Prisec I love because holy shit it's an Upgrade - while it's available to everyone, I think it's quite rightly Weyland that will love it - it even turns on DRT, and you can stack it if you really want
Nfr is consistent with Cutlery and Ankusa, I guess that's just how they word that effect
Isaac Ross
Interesting how everyone but HB jumped their Gray Ops in Bloody Money. Jinteki starts killing of unloyal personnel, NBN scandalizes Omar's "Flashpoint" to destroy Titan Transnational, and Weyland went mass pyromaniac on their obsolete estate. Meanwhile Director Haas is sitting in her office looking over latest bioroid blueprints with news running in the background on mute.
Connor Baker
I really like the whole intelligence aspect of the 23 seconds. No doubt every Corp got spies and agents working in the background, and this event is triggering some clean slate for some, and listed in a dead pool for many others. This is starting to show in the NBN operation Special Report in this pack. I haven't been this hype for a cycle since Lunar and their exploration of the origin of the Net.
Joseph Bennett
Where do we play now that DBzero has quit octgn and minh quit jinteki.net ?
Justin Hall
Jinteki isn't a one-man project and the whole source code is freely available.
What I'm saying is, even if the entire team decides to up and quite (they won't), literally anyone can just get and host everything.
Julian Powell
That's cool. Where do I practice today? Nationals are 2 weeks away, and I was meant to practice today :./
Dominic Rivera
Go out
Aaron Watson
Actually won't it be one of the minifaction Runner cards? Could've sworn FFG said there would be one in each of the expansions for this cycle. I'm hoping for a new directive because that could get interesting.
Camden Howard
How's it missing a card?
first image has 4, second one 4, third 2, (10)
fourth image has 6, fifth has 4 (10)
10+10 =20
Landon Thompson
There'll be one card per minifaction, not per pack.
It was missing Golden when it was first posted, that card has since been added.
Colton Peterson
>but it looks like they're finally getting around to the Jackson Question
They already started with things like Global Food Initiative and Allele Regression.
>Compare it to Turing has 2 more strength
IF on a remote. And without the Bioroid subtype. And all that entails.
>I really like the whole intelligence aspect of the 23 seconds
Yeah, nice in itself AN feeds the whole conspiracy angle to boot.
HB better up it's beta test dirty tricks!
Liam Lewis
You'll notice once again... seems like we have a great upcoming set of breakers for Exile... obviously out of faction though.
Wonder now if Khan is going to get the whole suite or just the Killer.
Cooper Murphy
Still can't get over Rumor Mill. It's weird how seemingly ridiculously specialized it is, yet it hits so many primordial corp cards.
Grayson Wilson
>IF on a remote. And without the Bioroid subtype. And all that entails. I mentioned that. The -1 strength on a main doesn't isn't enough to justify the other comparative shortcomings, in my opinion.
And the Bioroid subtype might as well not even exist with how little support it has: netrunnerdb.com/find/?q=x:bioroid Note that this list features non-support cards like Jeeves. Not sure how to better filter it. I've genuinely yet to see any of these cards used seriously, and half of them either don't synergize at all or have a generic or out-of-faction alternative.
You're also ignoring all the other advantages I listed, such as the huge click cost and the AI immunity Turing has over Fairchild 2.0.
Juan Harris
Yeah, but how will Exile take advantage of them?. The install cost will be prohibitive and they don't self trash.
So that means you need install reductions and something to trash them. Respectively, Sahasrara and Aesops will work. Once you get the 4 card combo up, you get three credits and a card every turn. Scheherazade can push that up by another credit and most of these things are run in a dumpster gamble style deck.
9 Influence for a full breaker suite of these cards could be prohibitive, so black orchid could lose out to a shaper decoder, though shaper killers are sub par. So let's say 6 influence for paperclip and a killer. Take a Scheherazade and pay 3 for the clone chip tax leaving you 5 influence. Pol Op is probably needed for this slower deck, so that's 4 influence free.
Jonathan Long
Project Wotan + Brain-taping Warehouse + Tyr's Hand. Good enough for me. I mean it's not the greatest ICE ever, but at that price point it's more than honest (Compare with Viktor 1.0=. And it fits a hole in the bioroid offer I really wanted to see filled.
Jose Ward
Freelance Coding Contract?
Aiden Lee
I'm not sure that will help. You'll 3 self installing cards max in your deck, so trashing them initially to seed your heap won't help that much. Freelance decks work by seeding the heap with silver bullets and power cards, then getting them instantly, but you're now influence deprived. You can take a Femme for the bypass and test run/scavenge, maybe a parasite and you're done. No HQ pressure unless you drop parasite for nerve agent, hopefully the killer is good enough you won't be completely reliant on sharpshooter. Of course, if you play out of professor this problem goes away, but then you're playing professor.
So I expect the dumpster gamble style to be best for exile and Paperclip and Freelance Coding Contract to maybe "work" in professor, who now can take some backup breakers that don't need tutoring.
Benjamin Clark
It's pretty interesting that while the other corps are going crazy with hitting the runner hard in multiple ways, HB only has the detective and the prophetic bioroids so far. We know Hellion is coming, but I do wonder if those bioroids have any significance.
I wonder what would be some use cases for Liquidation. Other than maybe a Midseasons, there's not much reason to reset the Corp's board state that I can think of, especially in this era of few scoring windows.
Austin Barnes
I think Aiki is getting a bum rep. It's a 1 cost ice that Gordian Blade breaks for 4, Cyber-Cipher 3, costs Faust 4 cards...yeah, it's Yoggable, but so what? It costs 1 to rez.
And it's net damage, not discard, which immediately puts it in a whole other category from Harvester. Doesn't let the runner faceplant just to loot. Worst case scenario in Nisei Division, it's a Pop-Up Window that mills the runner 2.
Brayden Reed
I like it, but if the runner has a decoder out then they'd most likely break the net damage, then just play the psi game. They win, all is fine. They lose, they get to draw two cards, which is pretty good. An early run could let them draw into some cards they'd otherwise need clicks for.
Cooper Taylor
Assuming you're Nisei Division and bet 0, let's say they break the 2 net damage with Cyber-Cipher and "lost" the psi game. That means you gained a credit, and they spent 3-4 credits to draw 2. Still not a terrible tradeoff.
Nathan Davis
I honestly wouldn't bet anything other than 0 unless I needed the draw for some reason. Which probably exactly why you're right that it's pretty good in Nisei as an in faction Pop-Up.
Levi Rodriguez
Right now my deck is Titan Weyland with Grail ice and nothing but neutral ops, assets, and ice (including Sandberg of course) with Indian Stock Exchange. Basically all of my assets are must-trash, which leaves the runner very poor. Dumb players usually let me have 2-3 Exchanges up, smart players usually allow me to have 1 up behind ice, and eventually midway through the game even dumb players realize that I'm making 4 credits for free per turn off Subliminal Messaging.
People usually facecheck Weyland ice early because they expect flimsy Ice Walls and other pussy shit. Hit them early with Merlin and cut their dicks off for their audacity.
Use Atlas counters on an Atlas train or for grabbing your Sandberg. You've got enough ice (17) to spare one on Sandberg to protect it, and usually I end up protecting an Indian Stock Exchange too as it pays off itself in space by rezzing all the neutral ice.
If you've got Shoot the Moon-level luck, the dream is to have Akitaro in a Chimera server, 3 Indian Stock Exchanges up, and making 3 credits every time the runner tries to run it.
>early game Excalibur Keep it in-hand to reveal from on-board Grail encounters.
>late game Excalibur They probably have all their breakers at this point, so it needs to go on the board. Put it on R&D for Shaper and Anarch (Medium/R&Di) and HQ for Criminal (PolOp -> kill Sandburg to open scoring window -> oh wait you can't, bitch).
Jace Taylor
This is really neat. The only weird part I think is the 3-of High Risk Investment, does it pay off frequently enough to get picked over the other 5/3s?
Levi Rogers
I had a lot of trouble cutting other cards, but if you feel like you can get rid of ice or perhaps a PAD Campaign, cutting out a HRI and putting in a third Oaktown and another Hostile Takeover might be okay
The thing about Akitaro Chimera is that it's god-tier rush against Shapers and Anarchs. They either need an AI breaker or a full decoder/killer/fracter suite to break it. Spend turns 1 and 2 protecting HQ, R&D, put Chimera and Akitaro into a new server. Turn 3 install advance advance HRI behind Chimera. If you have testicles you could feasibly do it turn 2 if you leave HQ and R&D naked.
If the runner uses SMC, pick Sentry on Chimera since they've got some of the highest install costs. Mongoose + break will cost the runner 6 credits off SMC, while the server costs you 0.
Lincoln Perry
If the corp spends all day trying to get enough money to fund Sandburg, the runner has a lot of time to boost their own funds as well.
So a scored Investment could potentially turn into "1 click gain 20 credits" or some stupid shit, which could really help out Sandburg
Parker Cook
Could someone explain what is fluff behind Rumor Mill's effect?
Jayden Bailey
what do you mean by fluff
the shitstorm reaction from the netrunner community?
Chase Murphy
What's happening when the card is played, in-universe, to cause that effect? Like when you play Scorched Earth, the runner takes a bunch of physical damage because you just blew up their apartment complex with them in it.
Connor Edwards
I'll give it a shot: With the 23 Seconds happening, suddenly everything is uncertain. Rumours run wild.
This current represents a mass of speculation over anything unique - mostly, these are people - that could have been compromised or disloyal during the 23 seconds
Some odd interactions exist, but they're generally still places that might be boycotted or suspected of something.
I think the thing that's hardest to justify is that it's EVERY Unique asset and upgrade, but if it's a really effective rumour mill then the internal and external suspicion effectively freezes anyone in a position of power - they're too busy covering their asses and trying to attack their own rivals
Parker Turner
I was more thinking the recent Panchatantra + silver bullets set up, you only install the heap breakers from heap on a need to basis, You Test Run/Scavenge them to get silver bullets back as needed.
I don't think the current Exile builds are going to accommodate those new breakers either. Will have to look for something else. Was just a random idea though.
Agree with 23 Seconds happens, mass panic, runner-fueled rumors spread wild and corp starts double-checking on sensitive personnel, putting them on hold until enough certainty of their innocence in the matter is gathered.
