Expanding on the Succubus

Why did this make me feel

>Lust for knowledge, lust for violence and combat, lust for music, lust for inventing, lust for constructing, lust for practically many things.

Don't forget lust for games.

>wouldn't a monster based on taking a strained figure of speech literally be better than a monster that isn't as cringeworthy?

Um, no.

Linguist please go.

>falling for someone you know is terrible because you think you can change them
Ironically, men fall for that kind of shit more often than women do even though women get more flak for it. The idea that you can change a person is comforting: it means you don't have to give up the bad relationship, and it also means that you're special and powerful. Just look at every succubus thread on Veeky Forums: men who honestly believe that their tiny, acorn-like penises are so special that they could redeem a literal demon.

In Shadowrun, Succubi can drain Karma from even being near sex acts and having line of sight.
>Succubus masquerades as (meta)human, becomes rock star
>Encourages straight up mass orgies at her concerts
>Succubus feasts, drawing from hundreds at once
>Succubus has more Karma than she knows what to do with
>Great and powerful spirit, beyond all others of her kind
>Succubus wins Shadowrun

He isn't a linguist, a linguist would know that grammatical gender != sex and that language evolves.

Also, that linguistics is not prescriptive is pretty much the first thing you learn nowadays.

I like to find someone I know to be pendantic about that kind of shit and intentionally combine Greek and Latin roots in front of them. If they're really salty I'll even split infinitives.

In my setting, succubi are created from the virgin sacrifice involved in most demonic magic. That's why they're so lusty!

The way the jib that is yours has been cut is something I like.

>And it's also extremely weird and creepy.

Which, unless you're wanting to play ERPG or writing porn or something, is how demons are supposed to be.

>falling for someone you know is terrible because you think you can change them
Is that what the women really believe?
Geeze. Why can't they believe they can buff up a loser or something instead?

Been done in Planescape kinda-sorta. And it was pretty fun! Only, the definition of lust is (and has been) a mostly sexual word. Unless you add a type to it, such as intellectual lust, people will most certainly assume you're talking about sex.

Yeah, but Slaanesh takes it to new levels and with tons of crazy...

>dat Modron doe

Yeah, you'd almost call it demonic.

Look, demons embody all the things we find most abhorrent and frightening. They shouldn't be cozy. In settings where they exist at all they should be upsetting. Slaanesh is hedonism demons done right precisely because Slaanesh is crazy and gross.

Now you're just stretching the definition of the word "lust". It is lust in the seven sins sense, which means eroticism which is tempered by neither love nor reason, it appeals to the animalistic nature of dualistic (godly, yet beaastly) man.

This is also why I believe the redeemed succubus should be removed from fantasy. The succubus is literally sin incarnate. Sin cannot be transformed into something good, it is something to be resisted. Succubi, as a force, will always be around.

Expanding lust means succubi enter the territory of other sins, which should be governed by other demons. It'd be neat if we had demons for every individual sin. I'm pretty sure some of them can be refluffed by I doubt we have a 1:1 match for the other sins like we have succubi for lust.

>Inb4 "gtfo christfag"
Succubi are apocryphical Hebrew monsters, I can christfag as hard as I want and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

>The devoted paladin (female) attempts to resist the beautiful and seductive succubus (male)

>It is lust in the seven sins sense, which means eroticism which is tempered by neither love nor reason,

Actually, in the seven sins sense, it's just strong passion, and doesn't have to be about sex.

It's a common misconception, similar to greed being about money, gluttony about eating too much food, and sloth about sleeping too much. Those are the 2-second definitions, ones that Thomas Aquinas used rather than those held be early church leaders. but each one actually extends well beyond those "targets" and instead can be defined by the characteristics of the desire or flaw.

For example, you can be spiritually sloth, apathetic in regards to your responsibilities towards faith. Gluttony extends beyond food and drink and includes over indulgence in any luxury without moderation at the expense or without consideration of others.

So what's the broadest canonical definition of lust?

Also
>Veeky Forums - Traditional Catechism

Broadest would be simply "desire", but more useful would be "disordered desire."

In Gregory the Great's Seven, he has lust as Luxuria, or extravagance, which was how most medieval scholars would treat the sin, and while it was chiefly concerned with extravagant sexual desires, it was not limited to them.

So instead he's a mumpsimus?

To be fair, it pretty much says in every D&D version that an outsider that somehow manages to change alignment will become another type of outsider. So therefore there can never be a redeemed succubus because the succubus would cease to be a succubus and be something else instead.

Every FUCKING day there is a succubus thread. I get it, hot demon bitch with fat tiddies that will have sex with you. Do we really need to be reminded that the godess is secretly a succubus or vice versa every. single. day?

TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES TIDDIES

>Do we really need to be reminded that the godess is secretly a succubus or vice versa every. single. day?
Yes.

She must have a false hydra-like effect on us.
If we forget, she wins

>If you redeem your enemies, they win
t. Grandmaster Justin Trudeau of the order of A FUCKING LEAF

She is trying to make us forget everyday that she is, in fact, a demon.
If we forget about her true nature, she wins.

No one brought up your stupid shit until you did,

Stop shitposting.

>Wouldn't a succubus that personifies lust as something really broad and unusual be much more interesting than just a sex-fiend that wants your soul (of course she'll be interested in getting your soul, but while under a different aspect of lust)?
Yes, this is what I've been saying forever, though you need to keep in mind the succubus is supposed to tempt people into falling into sin, so a succubus of lust for violence needs to tempt others to be consumed by want for violence, one for knowledge likewise

Is there such a thing as a snuggubus?

Right. Forgot about the temptation part.

>To be fair, it pretty much says in every D&D version that an outsider that somehow manages to change alignment will become another type of outsider. So therefore there can never be a redeemed succubus because the succubus would cease to be a succubus and be something else instead.
Bullshit, where?
The closest thing to that I've seen is rules on how to handle outsiders of alignment X and type [opposite of X] and in that case it EXPLICITLY stays an outsider of it's old type

>>The devoted paladin (female) attempts to resist the beautiful and seductive succubus (male)
Paladin (MILF) and succubus (Shota)?

A succubus might be able to drain someone just by cuddling, so maybe?

What if they were little squid things like in Berserk, just projecting an illusion of a sexy demon bitch?

You shouldn't, that's what separates succubi from dangerous fapbait adventurers should avoid (or at least tread carefully around) and just fapbait

And what if the succubus does it without even going into contact with a person and does it from a distance via mind magic and similar ways?

If it can still provide the necessary temptation then it's a succubus with a very easy mark

That's how they work in Shadowrun.

Jackpot.

Didn't knew Shadowrun had Succubi.

Succubi are based on the seven deadly sin with must being the most common one. Pride is the most unique and benevolent and often tempts people to do great things and feed off of success. Worst case scenario is the victim often can go power hungry to appease his mistress but it's dependent on the person and succubus in question. The other sins are self explanatory. Sloth feeds off lazy neets

>Sloth feeds off lazy neets
The goddess is a redeemed slothcubus, and her name is Aqua-sama!

I think it's fucking retarded.

Succubi aren't about "lust", they're about SEX. They're semen bumblebees. They're sex fiends who want to suck your soul through your penis.

If a "succubus" focuses on other human vices, like greed or gluttony or so on...she...wait for it...stops being a succubus and becomes a GREED OR GLUTTONY DEMON. SERIOUSLY THERE ARE OTHER KINDS OF DEMONS OTHER THAN SUCCUBI. AND THEY ALSO SEDUCE AND CORRUPT PEOPLE. THAT IS THEIR JOB - IN THE BIBLE, FOLKLORE, DND AND COUNTLESS OTHER SOURCES. SATAN ISN'T AN APPLE SUCCUBUS, HE'S SATAN. THE DEVIL WHO WENT DOWN TO GEORGIA ISN'T A FIDDLE SUCCUBUS.

Now if you want to say that in your setting all demons are cute sexy girls, you're welcome to do that. But for the sake of everything that is (un)holy, don't call all of them succubi, because that's FUCKING RETARDED. And don't pretend you're not just magical realming.

Yeah, they have a Shadow Spirit for each type of thing: Wraiths for Violence, Nightmares for Fear, Shades for Misery, Muses feed off of creative energy and essentially push artists to their breaking point so they burn out in a swan song, and of course the Succubus.

this.
>THE DEVIL WHO WENT DOWN TO GEORGIA ISN'T A FIDDLE SUCCUBUS.
I kek'd my pants.

Darn.

I think Veeky Forums has had a few threads like that, a temptation demon for each sin sounds fun

I don't think of succubi this way. Very often, these days, succubi are just characters with their own personalities who happen to need sex for nourishment and maybe have powers related to it, or something like that.

Some anons sperg out about this, about how they're supposed to be soul stealing demons, but that's just as arbitrary as having them be people.

It did, they were shitty "build a waifu" threads that crop up entirely too often here

That's basically Dragon Age's lust demons in a nut shell.

Why is Veeky Forums so fucking terrible about certain things, like succubus or elves, being or working differently from anything other than their own preconceived notion of how they work?

Why are you fucks so anal about it always working this way, raving about how it should always work that way, and if you think or say any different that you're a cancer and retarded?

Succubi could be fluffed in one game or another as just not even needing sex at all to sustain themselves, or being able to change into another class of demon, and other demons change into succubi with enough power or some shit.

Have all demons with bodies just be standardize and pre-prepared containers or tailored vessels through which the real demon, which could have any personality or form of its own, is acting through with an outlined or defined behavior.

What powers would they have that differ from a lust succubus?

you should totally expand succubi. I mean make them freaking huuuuuge.

Autists have a hard time adapting to change. This is why elves are either Tolkien or they're shit. Nevermind that Tolkien's elves are so utterly perfect they don't work as anything other than NPCs.

That idea about how Demons would work in general is a good idea even without being succubi being contextualized that way, so their base quality isn't affected really outside of the system they're part of. It's also kind of squicky to think wizards make the demons their summoning horny sex demons just because they can and want to in preference of other options.

Yeah, I mean, just for laughs.
haha

The problem with these threads is that they boil down to "what if succubus is just a word for female demon" because people somehow fail to realize that seducing and corrupting people isn't exclusive to succubi. It's what all demons are supposed to do, only succubi do that by the means of sex. If you remove sex from a succubus, the word becomes meaningless. Sure, there definitely can be female demons of sloth, of wrath, of envy or whatever. But they're not succubi. Saying all demons are succubi just devalues the word for no apparent reason at all (okay, we all know the reason - it's somehow hotter if they're called a succubus. But still)

There is nothing wrong with changing things around, but there are right and wrong ways of doing that. Your idea isn't half bad. Making succubus a word for female demon is stupid.

>Expanding on the Succubus
>ctrl+f "THICC"
>0 matches

>Expanding on the Succubus
>ctrl+f "converting souls to ass fat"
>0 matches

Hush, you're the only one who cares

I am perfectly okay with succubus meaning any demon that specializes in temptation

>i. It's what all demons are supposed to do, only succubi do that by the means of sex.

Except they don't have to,

>what if succubus is just a word for female demon

That's not actually that far from being accurate.

Really. Lilith and her children are called succubi. There's a story about a succubus that consists entirely of a brass head (which makes sex kind of out of the question) that seduces a pope with power.

You can prefer your own succubi to always have to be about sex, but that's not true in folklore, so you might as well stop trying to ram your ideas down everyone's throat.

>"converting souls to ass fat"

The brazen head is a succubus? What the fuck are you talking about?

A lot of anons here really like to subvert tropes or come up with their own interpretation of what something is, often at the expense of the history of the word or idea. It's the same shitty thing as calling something an elf while it's a 12 foot tall horned beast that communicates through color and has ten tentacles.

That isn't an elf, as it has no connection to any type of elf that has been created. Its confusing as it goes against the large cultural expectations of what an elf is. And the same is true for calling any female demon a succubus.

In D&D all demons have a sex, so there are female glabrezu, pit fiends, dretches, and such. Succubi are exclusively female, and have a male counterpart, the incubus. They are also more than just sex, using the old form of inspiring disordered lust towards something. This is evidenced by Falls-from-Grace, who runs an intellectual brothel where you come to satisfy a lust for knowledge. Sex still features pretty prominently for succubi but it's just merely the easiest way of tempting a mortal.

In mythology demons were merely fallen angels and thus neuter, including the succubus. Succubi had sex, but they weren't female or male. They engaged in both human forms to spread the corrupted seed of men through the community. They were a cover for infidelity and rape among christian communities.

The user is dumb. Brazen heads weren't succubi, but just generic demons that inhabited special made vessels and gave out knowledge.

I think the one that aided that pope was though

Choice spirit!

Because women despise weakness.

Instead of trying to change the definition of a well established mythological/fantasy creature, why not create something new that salvages the things you DO like and change or expand in the things that you don't?

Or alternatively, just do whatever you want with them - they don't exist, they don't have to abide to conventional rules. Conventional perceptions of fantasy creatures and races are constantly changed, most authors don't have the same perception or ideals when it comes to what's basically the same thing. See: elves in literally everything.

I don't see why these threads always pop up or why they carry on for so long, "do whatever the fuck you want" should be one of the most basic things you learn when getting into tabletop or writing in the first place.

Because people like to discuss and exchange ideas? Possibly to see if anyone out there had a similar idea and to see how they implemented it or to get inspiration to build off of?
What else do you think a place like Veeky Forums is for?

Such a lust for revenge!? WHOOOO!?!?!

What if I told you...that 90% of the conventions and mythology you associate as the norm is wildly different than what it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day when it was first created.

I mean, it seems pretty stupid to get hung up on random anons brainstorming with new interpretations of classic mythological creatures when most modern interpretations of orcs, elves, gnomes, etc. is already pretty much a new interpretation of how these particular creatures worked.

So really, why not mess with conventions a bit and see where it goes?

Cause autism, that's his whole reason

It honestly is slightly irritating when people just want to use soul stealing ones instead of things that steal your sperm and knock up some chick across town.

I don't think I've ever seen the latter in a game though

That's because D&D took many liberties with the mythological creatures it borrowed from.

Which makes his point even more retarded once you poke through the bestiary and realize that most of the shit in it is either wrong or altered based on the author's misconceptions.

I know and it slightly irks me it would be like every vampire was a sparklepire.

>Succubi can drain Karma from even being near sex acts
I miss Succubus Lord Quest.

I'm open to a pretty flexible definition of succubus, my main criteria for them are "Leads others to/destroys others with temptation", "Female", and "probably attractive", come to think of it, I'd be open to a non-demon being called a succubus as long as it meets those three criteria

I would be less flexible about demonic traits, she should be a demon. But more flexible about temptation, it doesn't need to be an inherent metaphysical thing. For one whatever she does with the sex thing might not have any detrimental effect on others.

>I would be less flexible about demonic traits, she should be a demon.
Eh, I can see a hostile alien "succubus" or it being a specific kind of magic/mind control using assassin, maybe a spirit that's not technically a demon (though that's just splinting hairs)
But I do prefer them as a demon or something demonic

>But more flexible about temptation, it doesn't need to be an inherent metaphysical thing. For one whatever she does with the sex thing might not have any detrimental effect on others.
I just think the succubus archetype should be about temptation, or at least a loosening or morals, doesn't have to be harmful (or at least directly) and more dangerous succubi probably lean more to the "destroys others with temptation" side, but there should be something tempting about them

But that's just my opinion

I don't, I think there is nothing necessary about detriment, temptation, and especially not of loosening of morals. In fact that sounds really lame to me, like a recipe for always telling the exact same story.

But then that's my opinion.

Does that mean they also hate themselves? That's kind of sad desu

If you dislike the thread enough to shitpost, don't be so blatent about it and wait till it's on page 10 to bump it

Fair point. I shall apply sage judiciously from now on.

I gotta ask though, if you don't like it, why not just leave it alone and let it die?
Shitposting is likely to attract people who won't bump it

I don't really hate the thread, just felt compelled to join the meme exchange.

And you are mistaken, both shitposters and people crusading against them will frequently forget to sage.

On that note, fuck google and his "keep clicking until it goes away" captcha.

>just felt compelled to join the meme exchange.
That just encourages shitty behavior

Such is nature of a man.

Whoa did I almost miss the expansion thread?